Applying to only 5 schools/Post 9-11 G.I. Bill

[pilotdentist]

Bottom Line: I am a military veteran eligible for 100% Post-9-11 G.I. Bill benefits. This would cover full tuition for 36 months at all 3 Texas schools (my state of residence), U of Michigan, and U of Pittsburgh. It would cover 20K per year for other schools but that would still leave 50-75K remaining in debt per year. My dilemma is whether to apply to schools outside the 5 that would leave my family close to debt free, and whether it is likely I will get an interview at one of the 5 schools mentioned above.

My Stats:
DAT 22AA(26Bio 18RC 22GC 23OC 20QR) 23TS 24PAT
I have a 4.0 Master of Science in Environmental Sciences from an accredited online school
I graduated from a service academy with a degree in Biology just under a decade ago. Since then, I have been a military instructor pilot flying multi-engine jet aircraft with students. I have ample leadership and accomplishments that will definitely make me stand-out from the normal applicant. My biggest negative is an undergrad GPA of only 3.16. Service academies do not grade inflate. Also, I was an intercollegiate boxer at the time. My undergrad classes only had an "intro Organic Chem" class. I recently completed Orgo I/II/Bio Chem with all A's.

My questions:
Is a very high DAT score plus a unique/professional background enough to likely get an interview if only 5 schools are applied to? My gut instinct is yes. I know Texas is very favorable to military and Michigan/Pittsburgh must be since they do tuition matching to make the G.I. Bill cover all costs. If I get an interview, I am confident I can get in.

Does AADSAS/TMDSAS incorporate Master's Degree grades in GPA calculations? I found this guide from ADEA which mentions Graduate GPA but doesn't say much about it. My three recent A's will boost my 3.16 undergrad GPA a small amount. If Master's degree scores are incorporated then I have less to worry about. file:///C:/Users/Mark/Downloads/2013%20GPA%20Calculations.pdf

Overall, I have a wife/kid and the idea of having 250K in debt when I know 5 schools would be close to debt free makes me want to apply to only those 5 schools. Please give me your take on how tough interviews are to get and if you have any incites about these specific school admissions programs. Thanks for reading!

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[pilotdentist]

I found one of my answers. Looks like "overall GPA" counts both undergraduate and graduate classes but the "science GPA" and "non-science" GPA counts only undergraduate for AADSAS. Now to look into TMDSAS...

 

[larrylu]

Man, you'll definetly get in. Your undergrad GPA isn't that terrible and talking about some stellar EC's.

 

[free99]

Any school, let alone five of them, would be crazy to not invite you to their campus to hear more about you. It's always a gamble, but if it were me, I'd apply to just those five and not look back. If it gives you any more confidence, I'm a nontrad as well, and was interviewed and accepted at Michigan this past cycle with an undergrad GPA of 3.15, 22AA. I think had some unique experiences on my app that made me stand out, but nothing badass like teaching pilots to fly multi-engine aircrafts. My one suggestion would be to pore over any essays you write and make sure you're clearly translating how those experiences have prepared you to excel in dental school and practice.

 

[LFA20]

You have fantastic DAT scores and such an interesting story. I am willing to bet you will get into ALL 3 texas schools.

 

[pilotdentist]

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I figured my "story" would standout but also knew that schools put GPAs in very high regard. It's reassuring to see other nontraditional students get in with lower GPAs but high DAT scores reflecting their dedication to the career change. I think I'll stick with the plan of applying to only the 5 "G.I. Bill friendly" schools.

 

[Daneosaurus]

I was under the impression Columbia is fairly military friendly.

 

[sacapuntas]

If I was in your situation, I would not apply to schools outside those 5. If you get an invite to MI, their MMI interview process is very easy for a non-traditional student with confidence to stand out positively in, not to mention the strong likelihood you will get into one of your 3 state schools.

 

[pilotdentist]

Thanks for the posts. MMI is a new term to me but I looked it up and saw that its the "multiple mini interview" with stations to gauge an applicants ability to handle situations etc. Is there a list somewhere about which schools have this style? I take it Michigan does by your comments.

I looked up Columbia, the G.I. Bill requires tuition matching from the school if its out of state via the "yellow ribbon" program. Columbia will only will contribute a few thousand dollars verses Michigan/Pittsburgh who do tuition matching up to the full cost, which is crazy generous.

 

[Gutiesc]

I'm prior military and I have been using my Post 9/11 for my undergrad. Every time I go into the education office, they tell me that the Post 9/11 will NOT pay for a doctorates, not even a Master's Degree. You might want to call the VA office again to reconfirm your intentions. It would be awful to get accepted into dental school thinking you're going to rely on the Post 9/11 and then realize you have to take out loans. Have you thought about HSPS Scholarship?

 

[pilotdentist]

http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/post911_gibill.asp
Thanks for your warning but I have looked into it a bunch (because I have heard conflicting information).

The link above explicitly states that it will pay for "undergraduate and graduate" degrees. Additionally I have called the VA directly on numerous occasions and every time they confirmed that it would pay for full in-state rate, even for a 60-70K dental tuition...

I also emailed the VA certifying official at UTexas who said to his knowledge it paid for full tuition at every program for in-state.

But yeah, getting a 100% answer has been difficult but all these sources point to it covering the cost.

 

[Gutiesc]

This is seriously the BEST news I have heard in years! Every single time I talk to my VA education office, they offer the same rehearsed response. I'm so excited to be able to apply some of what's left to dental school! Thank again!

 

[brosenba]

While it is very likely you will get interviews where ever you apply I was in your situation last year and I applied to more schools than just my state schools. I think it is a little foolish to not cast a wide net when in the end it is only a few hundred extra dollars. Also I would double check about the benefits even if you are at a Texas school. The GI bill only covers 36 months of housing and most dental schools are a 45 month format. Which means the second half of your last year you will not get BAH. It shouldn't be a huge deal, especially with the low cost of living in TX, but just be aware that you will have to pay for some stuff out of pocket.

Also I am not sure I totally understand your masters degree. Did you take your ORGO online? If so I would highly recommend taking it at an actual university. A lot of schools will not accept prerequisites that were completed online. If you have specific questions about former military in interviews PM me.

 

[pilotdentist]

Gutiesc- I called the VA again today. It was reconfirmed that yes, it'll pay full IN-state rate for any degree level without a cap. Or you can be out of state with Yellow Ribbon schools (Michigan/Pitt).

In state/yellow ribbon verses out of state w GI bill topping off at 20k only per year would equal Hundred of THOUSANDS extra in debt. Applying to more schools than the 5 small cost but do I want to open myself up to flying around the country to interview at costly school not covered for the 3.5 years if I have a sold chance of getting in the 5 paid for schools.
Thanks for the inputs. I knew school was mostly year round, but didn't know it was 44 months. Oh well, 9 months tuition is a small price to pay! Thanks.

 

[pilotdentist]

As for the online labs/chem classes, they are accepted by most schools. I had it confirmed by TMDSAS, Michigan, Pitt are all good with it .

Detroit mercy was the only school I talked to that wouldn't accept the UNE courses I took...

 

[BabyShades]

You will get into at least one of the Texas Dental schools. My friend who had a low GPA and a similar DAT as you, got all three interviews. And was accepted to one.

 

[WIinNC]

Gutiesc- I called the VA again today. It was reconfirmed that yes, it'll pay full IN-state rate for any degree level without a cap. Or you can be out of state with Yellow Ribbon schools (Michigan/Pitt).

In state/yellow ribbon verses out of state w GI bill topping off at 20k only per year would equal Hundred of THOUSANDS extra in debt. Applying to more schools than the 5 small cost but do I want to open myself up to flying around the country to interview at costly school not covered for the 3.5 years if I have a sold chance of getting in the 5 paid for schools.
Thanks for the inputs. I knew school was mostly year round, but didn't know it was 44 months. Oh well, 9 months tuition is a small price to pay! Thanks.

As long as you have at least 1 day of eligibility left, the Post 9/11 GI Bill pays the tuition for that entire semester. You should be good either way, but it may depend on your eventual school. If they split the bill up in 3 semesters/yr, you can just shut off the GI bill for a few months here or there, so you would have a month of eligibility left at the start of your final semester.

I would definitely add a few more schools besides those 5 you picked. I only applied to 7 schools, which really turned into 5. 2 of the schools I applied to told me before I applied that they would wave a requirement from their application process that I didn't meet. Several months later, I received rejection letters without interviews from these two schools and the reason they gave me was that I didn't meet the requirement that they told me they would wave. It was unprofessional and cost me $400. My point is that the process really is a crap shoot. Some of the schools were very impressed by my experiences in the Marine Corps; others were indifferent (in no way am I saying military experience entitles me to a dental school acceptance). I'm excited to be going to UNE, as it was tied for my top choice due to location and family. However, I probably would have been quite frustrated if I didn't get in anywhere and mad at myself for not applying to 10-15 schools.

And by the way... all the sudden all the veterans start showing up in this thread. Where were you guys when I was applying last year?!?

 

[Ferneezy]

OP, if you're gainfully employed and kinda just waiting around until you start dental school and the clock on your benefits isn't in danger of running out...save some money and apply only to those five. if you don't get in, no skin off your back. just try again next year.

like you, i brought a substantive life history with my file. my gpa was is garbage, and despite that i secured more interviews than i'll admit i deserved.

i agree with your gut, i believe you'll get bites from your target schools.

couple things:
consider reaching out to admissions departments beforehand, laying out your history and numbers to "see what they think". doing so puts your name in their minds. i did this in january of my application year and it may have had a hand in securing a couple interviews. sadly these schools aren't on your list.

as mentioned above, the structure of umich's mmi rewards those with experience who can draw parallels and make connections with subject matter they may have never seen before. if you know yourself, it's a breeze.

good luck and thanks for your service.

 

[pilotdentist]

As long as you have at least 1 day of eligibility left, the Post 9/11 GI Bill pays the tuition for that entire semester. You should be good either way, but it may depend on your eventual school. If they split the bill up in 3 semesters/yr, you can just shut off the GI bill for a few months here or there, so you would have a month of eligibility left at the start of your final semester.

I would definitely add a few more schools besides those 5 you picked. I only applied to 7 schools, which really turned into 5. 2 of the schools I applied to told me before I applied that they would wave a requirement from their application process that I didn't meet. Several months later, I received rejection letters without interviews from these two schools and the reason they gave me was that I didn't meet the requirement that they told me they would wave. It was unprofessional and cost me $400. My point is that the process really is a crap shoot. Some of the schools were very impressed by my experiences in the Marine Corps; others were indifferent (in no way am I saying military experience entitles me to a dental school acceptance). I'm excited to be going to UNE, as it was tied for my top choice due to location and family. However, I probably would have been quite frustrated if I didn't get in anywhere and mad at myself for not applying to 10-15 schools.

And by the way... all the sudden all the veterans start showing up in this thread. Where were you guys when I was applying last year?!?

WIinNC- How exactly do the logistics work for "turning on/off" G.I. Bill? Can you do that for small intervals, like a 2-3 week Christmas break? What is the best way to maximize its total time and how much would you expect it to cover for a 4 yr dental program that is usually 10 or so months a year?

Do you mind sharing what disqualified you from the 2 schools? My only other concern is recommendation letters. Some schools say they will take a committee letter OR 3 core prerequisite teacher letters (Pittsburgh). What if your committee letter does not have the same contents as what they require for letters sent individually? I called them and they said it was fine, they will take whatever is in my committee letter. Like you, I am a bit weary of what I am told by whoever answers the phone. Same goes for the acceptance of my online Orgo I, II, Biochem.

I found another school that is pretty good with the G.I. Bill. For the University of Louisville, their VA department said it will cover their full-in state rate (above the normal 20K max out of state) and you would have to pay the extra amount up to the out of state cost (about 30K per year, still better than any other out of state).

This is good stuff.

 

[Doctor_Nope]

This may be a little late, but I was wondering if your home of record while in the military was Texas or if you joined the military from Texas. If so, you may be eligible for tuition exemption for Texas schools through the Hazelwood Act (which I believe kicks in once your GI Bill is used up). If you haven't done so I would check it out.

 

[doc toothache]

The high DAT and your background will certainly get you noted. Before you get too excited, you might want to check with the schools in question and see what their feeling is about online graduate degrees.

 

[Cello]

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[Daneosaurus]

This may be a little late, but I was wondering if your home of record while in the military was Texas or if you joined the military from Texas. If so, you may be eligible for tuition exemption for Texas schools through the Hazelwood Act (which I believe kicks in once your GI Bill is used up). If you haven't done so I would check it out.

Hazelwood Act makes me wish I were from Texas so much. That state really knows how to take care of veterans.

 

[pilotdentist]

So my original post was back in April. I am now accepted and will update this thread to close it out for anyone else in a similar situation.

Initially, I only applied to 7 schools. Texas schools began interview invites in Jul/Aug and I did not receive one. Also, I found out that, last July, the Dept of Veteran Affairs Reform Bill was passed, and any veterans using the Post 9/11 G.I. Bill will get IN STATE tuition at ANY public university within 3 years of separating (applicable to me). Given that I did not received a Texas interview, I looked up every school that accepted 25+ OOS and applied to them in late August (16 non-Texas schools total).

Final Results: 0 Texas interviews, 12 interview requests (I attended 7 and delayed the rest until post Dec as backup options), 5 acceptances

Lessons Learned:
1- Although TMDSAS considered me "in-state," I dont think the individual schools did. 10 of my interview invites were as an OUT OF STATE applicant at well known public universities. If I was really "in-state" for Texas, I should not have been blanked. I currently live in Arkansas, and grew up in Ohio, so I am guessing they did not interview me for that reason, but who knows. If that is the case, TMDSAS should tell veterans that from the start so we don't waste time and $.

2- Schools did NOT care that I took 3 prerequisites (including 3 labs) online and had an online MS. I see lots of stuff on SDN about not doing this, but it had no effect on my outcome. Maybe my professional accomplishments made them overlook it, but overall, I think they don't really care since it was only 3 classes, and I attended a good university (US Air Force Academy) and have a solid application.

3- It doesn't really matter if you apply in June or August. I submitted 7 apps in June and 12 in August. The 12 interviews I received in Sep/Oct/Nov had no real correlation to how early it was submitted. Some June application schools invited me for interviews in Oct and some August application schools invited me in September. Being early is desirable, but a few months late will NOT affect anything.

4- If you think you will do well in interviews, you don't need to go to every one you get pre-Dec. I learned very quickly that I applied to too many schools. I cut off the pre-Dec interviews that I attended at 7, and even that might have been too many (5 acceptances). It saved me a bunch of money. I think the stats on OOS acceptance are usually around 50 or 60% of interviewees accepted, so if you attend a handful and are capable of having a decent conversation, you should be golden.

5- Schools look at your application holistically. I got so many interviews with a lower GPA because I have professional accomplishments that prove my ability to function at a high level. It's not just your GPA and DAT.


I hope this help any other vets with their dental school pursuit. Hit me up with a private email if you want more info on how the process was for me. Thanks to everyone who provided constructive feedback for me.

O-H-I-O S-T-A-T-E! Go buckeyes!

 

[CraigHack]

Hey Rockstar!

Care to elaborate on what you thought of the schools you interviewed at?

 

[Danielqta]

Didn't know about the three year thing. Wouldn't have really affected me anyways since I got out Nov/2011.

 

[pilotdentist]

Ohio State
Pros- Great location in Columbus near downtown. The "Ohio Project" is where you work 50 days at clinics around Ohio and see tons of patients D3 & D4. Most schools had a similar program, but none were as long as at OSUs. School has a long history, football, and lots of pride.
Cons- Old facilities. Does not have electronic radiographs.

Michigan
Pros- Ann Arbor is a nice, small town. Top Reputation. Usually top 4 in research funding. Cutting edge of just about everything. 8 week during D3 & D4, you go to clinics in Michigan.
Cons- U of M football going downhill. It's really cold. Class starts in June of D1, not Aug.

Pittsburgh
Pros- Cool city. Big university. One of the top research schools (recent trend).
Cons- Traffic was real bad getting to my interview.

Rutgers
Pros- Nice facilities, but I would put it after Tenn & VCU. They claim to have the most procedures performed each year compared to other schools. Lots of patients available.
Cons- It's in Newark, NJ. It's in Newark, NJ! Traffice is terrible. Its not co-located by the rest of Rutgers University.

Southern schools- This applies to Kentucky, VCU, & Tennessee. All of them were very laid back and welcoming. They had small, intimate interview days verses OSU, UofM, and Pitt who were large and more formal. I really liked the attitude and friendliness all of these schools.

Kentucky
Pros- Lexington is very affordable. Awesome basketball. Some cool civic programs where they give free sealants. Kentucky residents need lots of dental help. Short, to the point interview day.
Cons- Nothing too fancy (which can be a good thing). They will teach you to be a good dentist, not much more to it.

Tennessee
Pros- Nicest facilities. Largest dental simulator in N America. Huge alumni support for the school. They wanted to expand and the state gave them $1 million . They asked grads to help, and got $12 million in donations. They had 6 cone beam scanners there, which is crazy. You take 1 test every 3 weeks that is comprehensive. It gets you super-prepared for Boards 1 (100% pass rate).
Cons- Not much research, if you are into that. Campus is in Memphis (the rest of UT is in Knoxville). Literally year round classes.

VCU
Pros- Also amazing facilities. Has D1 dental simulators (cost 100K each). You get to use the simulator on the interview. Richmond was a nice, small town. Campus is downtown. Has cool program where they set up tents and give free dental care to hundreds of VA residents.
Cons- Not much. If you want a big city, Richmond is smallish.


Overall- They are all big, public universities that produce great dentists. I honestly don't think it matters that much which school you attend since they all had almost every residency and you get exposure to all of them. My decision weighted location as my #1 criteria. Good luck!

 

[EasTexan]

Any idea why the Texas schools considered you OOS if your TMDSAS app designated you as in-state? Did they just happen to see that you were living in Arkansas? Also, how did TMDSAS even classify you as in-state in the first place if you lived in AR? It seems like you learned about the G.I. Bill in-state perk after applying to Texas schools.

Sorry for so many residency questions, it's just interesting to me since I went through a residency ordeal with my wife.

 

[doc toothache]

Some schools may "NOT care" that some prerequisites were taken online or whether or not an MS was online, and some clearly do. MS. To wit, in this case "some" schools failed to even give a good day. Based on the comments schools provide in discussing prerequisites, it is clear that they try to discourage predents from taking them at CC level, although they are fairly mum on online. Deans of admission make to rules and just as easily ignore them. If they are interested in an applicant, all bets are off.

Any idea why the Texas schools considered you OOS if your TMDSAS app designated you as in-state? Did they just happen to see that you were living in Arkansas? Also, how did TMDSAS even classify you as in-state in the first place if you lived in AR? It seems like you learned about the G.I. Bill in-state perk after applying to Texas schools. Sorry for so many residency questions, it's just interesting to me since I went through a residency ordeal with my wife.

It is a supposition that the OP is making

 

[EasTexan]

It is a supposition that the OP is making

That's what I was getting at, or, trying to eliminate.

 

[CareerNumTwo]

PilotDentist- I'd like to know why you think your residency thing worked out the way it did. I'm in a similar situation that you were in. Currently active duty Army in Arizona - 8 years in. Currently working on my prerequisites at UA. Did undergrad and ROTC at U of M almost a decade ago. I was told by TMDSAS a couple weeks ago that as long as I can provide 12 months of LES with TX as my home state, that they would consider me in state. Called Baylor College of Dentistry and they said they would defer residency verification to TMDSAS. If what happened to you is true, what do you think I'd need to do to ensure the TX schools consider me a TX resident? Were you active duty while applying to D school and also claiming TX as your state while in Arkansas?