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Are 23, 24, 25, 26 MCAT scores good?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Allopathic [ MD ]' started by Slash, 08.24.05.

  1. Slash

    Slash Senior Member

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    I'm curious what the national average for the MCAT is and was wondering if anyone here could tell me? A few students at my school that I know of have overall MCAT scores in the range of 23-26. They strut around like they are locks for med school. Are these MCAT scores below average, average, above average? The highest score is a 26, and from what I know even that isn't that great. Can somebody clarify this for me? Thanks.
  2. tank you

    tank you 2K Member

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    not really, the average score for students matriculating into med school is 30, maybe even higher now..
  3. Labslave

    Labslave Senior Member

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    Your friends should never strut. ;)

    http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/examineedata/table0405.pdf

    That should give you a good idea of what the difference is between an average score (25) and a good score.
  4. tank you

    tank you 2K Member

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    but then again, depending on which state you live in, and assuming they have good gpas, those scores might be good enough to get in :)
  5. VPDcurt

    VPDcurt 2K Member

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    URM status would help a great deal as well.
  6. tank you

    tank you 2K Member

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    haha, why does every thread end up with a comment abour urms
  7. rtmcad2319

    rtmcad2319 Senior Member

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    Yeah 31(bio is now an 11) is the NEW 30 if you look at the new MSAR!
  8. TheMightyAngus

    TheMightyAngus

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    So the "average" BS score for matriculants exceeds the 90th percentile? If this is the case, something is inherently wrong with the system.
  9. Agent Splat

    Agent Splat Viruses? Don't Exist.

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    It's perfectly possible to get in with a 27 or lower. It's just not as easy to be confident. But then, you can be rejected with a 43 on the MCAT.
  10. If youre a "Under-represented person of color" then 23-26 is great! Its like elite status!

    Trolls! Rally to my banner! Glarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
  11. gujuDoc

    gujuDoc

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    24 or now 25 is the national average. Some schools like USF or Medical College of Ohio or UMiami have a minimum in state requirement of 24.

    24 or 25 will get you into a DO school easily, but makes MD schools quite a bit harder. 27 or higher and a good GPA and you'll be ok. 30+ and you will almost be golden depending on your application profile.
  12. VPDcurt

    VPDcurt 2K Member

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    I'm not a troll. Some people here know that so it shouldn't even be an issue. I'm just speaking the truth - I didn't mean to start an argument here.
  13. DrMike24

    DrMike24 eat, drink, and be merry

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    I dont get it. Its way easier, apparently, to get into a DO school. Yet people condsider DO's to be equal to MD's. So wheres the difference? Why dont people just go the DO route instead of trying to excel on the MCAT?
  14. medhacker

    medhacker We can end world poverty!

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    Here we go again!

    You can't excell on the other non-cognitive areas osteopathic schools gauge you on without having them to begin with. A different admission standard does not necessarily mean a lower standard.
  15. DrMike24

    DrMike24 eat, drink, and be merry

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    Ah. Good to know
  16. gujuDoc

    gujuDoc

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    Don't worry, I stand behind you. I actually think I recall talking to you back in the days of the 2004 MCAT administration. You are in med school now right??? Just curious.


    And to the OP:

    Tell your friends they need to study their butt off and get a good score, rather then think they can get by with a 23.
  17. gujuDoc

    gujuDoc

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    Also, generally the people with more competitive scores tend to be more inclined to wanting to go into MD route rather then DO route, because of the prestige factor and the fact that most top schools are MD schools. So if you have all your 34+ MCAT scorers going to MD schools mostly, its going to make the competition stiffer then it would for DO schools.
  18. ToPa55

    ToPa55 Removed

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    I've always heard (from admissions people) that if you are below 28, you MUST take it again.
  19. tacrum43

    tacrum43 Behold the mighty echidna

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    I think that's a little flippant. No MCAT score is a guarantee of acceptance, and certainly not a 30. Well, except of course at D.O. schools.

    (just kidding medhacker) :)
  20. JustR

    JustR Removed

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    I have known a person who got 35 on MCAT and 3.5 GPA did not get into a medical school becuase the interview did not go well.

    Also, I have heard that a person has a potential to get an MCAT score of THE GPA MULTIPLIED BY 10. SO like, if someone has 3.0 GPA, then he/she could have a potential to get (3.0 times 10) 30 on an MCAT. Lower scores are possible, but potential to have 30. Is it right of what I heard??
  21. Jagleaso

    Jagleaso Junior Member

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    I think that formula sounds a bit iffy, lol ;)
  22. tacrum43

    tacrum43 Behold the mighty echidna

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    Guess again.
  23. Medinsane

    Medinsane Music in Asian Form

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    HuH? GPA is not an indicator for your MCAT. Period. End of sentence. MCAT is a beast in it's own stratosphere.
  24. riceman04

    riceman04

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    HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?
  25. Lindyhopper

    Lindyhopper Senior Member

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    Keyword word - "Necessarily"
    I have great respect for DOs. I'm a patient of one. But the plain reality is that it is easier to gain admission. Hell, other threads have students getting accepted at WVSOM based solely on GPA & MCAT. No interview. One student was accepted before they even received LORs.
    I believe the ease in admission is largely a result of historical reasons & less public recognition. A DO is also at somewhat of a disadvantage when applying for more competitive residencies.
  26. gujuDoc

    gujuDoc

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    Hence why I said.........DEPENDING ON THE REST OF YOUR PROFILE

    Note: CAPS = Emphasis NOT yelling!!!!!
  27. medhacker

    medhacker We can end world poverty!

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    Like it is prudent to judge all osteopathic school by what one or two schools do...

    And point in case, the one school which hands out acceptances based only on GPA/MCAT only does it for applicants with MCAT = 28 and I believe 3.5+ GPA, that is by any standard higher than the lower outlier standard of most allopathic schools.

    And for LOR's I think that is such a petty requirement.
  28. medhacker

    medhacker We can end world poverty!

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    school, not schoolS ;)

    and of course you need to have an above average GPA as well
  29. gujuDoc

    gujuDoc

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    Exactly what she said. If it were just sciences, then it would be an indicator to some extent. But a lot of people do poor on the MCAT due to VR skills.
  30. Lindyhopper

    Lindyhopper Senior Member

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    Fair enough. But two points.
    1) WVSOM policy insures a wlling applicant entrance into the profession based only cold stats.
    2) I think it reflects the greater reality. Both MD & DO programs try to enroll applicants who will be able to successfully complete the program & become good physicians. The MD programs have the academicly stronger applicants. DO programs may give some greater credence to life experience & other attributes, but the lower stats of the applicants, largely dictates the lower entering stats.
    I just don't think there is significant pool of candidates who can get into an MD program but not into a DO program. I don't know anyone who really wanted to be a DO, couldn't get in and finally settled for an MD.

    But don't get me wrong. I love DOs. And at the end of the day, the important thing is to become excellent & kind physicians.
  31. PBandJ

    PBandJ hot dog back in action! Moderator Emeritus

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    a lot of people do poorly due to VR skills, guju! :)
  32. medhacker

    medhacker We can end world poverty!

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    DOing a search of these forums you will find anecdotal statements of people with high GPAs and high MCATs who did not make it at osteo schools. As to the veracity of their claims, who knows, but being knowledgeable about the osteo. world I would not be surprised.

    In fact, I just remembered reading (search) anecdotes of people being rejected with above average stats applying to allopathic schools which traditionally accept lower stats applicants. The assumption at the time was that the schools felt the students considered them back-ups. At the end of the day the truth is "who knows" this is a system with a mind of its own, if it has a mind at all...
  33. LJDHC05

    LJDHC05 Former Chicken Slayer

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    Is it bad that I smirked out loud at that? Too bad it was so true in my case... and as far as any predictor of MCAT performance goes, there is none. I know someone with a 4.0 and she got a 24 because of nerves. One of my friends was testing at 30-32 on practice exams and tanked with a 26 on the real thing (he pulled up his score the second time around though).

    To the OP: National average for people taking the exam is 24, national average for applicants is 26, national average for people being accepted to medical school is 30 (allopathic anyway). DO is a different world that I do not understand so it scares me. If your friends want to be MD's, tell them to first get informed about what they need to get in and then to take the MCAT again.
  34. gujuDoc

    gujuDoc

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    Huh??????? That's exactly what I said in the end of my post!!!!!!!!!!!!
  35. unfrozencaveman

    unfrozencaveman not a dude

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    She's busting on your grammar. Ironical.
  36. SailCrazy

    SailCrazy I gotta have more cowbell

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    Where do you go to school?

    Also, no one has called Slash out as a potential troll, but I find it difficult to believe that anyone who spent any significant time preparing for the MCAT wouldn't know that 23-26 is well below average for med school matriculants, let alone walk around bragging about their scores!
  37. Dr Trek 1

    Dr Trek 1 Senior Member

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    just a few points

    1) The MCAT tests one thing and one thing only: How good you are at taking the MCAT.

    2) DO schools look at the applicants more as a whole- they especially look for skills that make people good doctors, not just good students.

    3) Interviews at MD schools do not really matter all that much. I heard this from a MD who does interviews at an MD school that unless you are actively hallucinating during an interview, it can NEVER hurt you, only help you. If you have a 4.0 GPA and a 45 MCAT score and can say "I want to help people." you will be accepted to every allopathic medical school. Not to say that you will not also be accepted at DO schools, but they do not weigh grades as heavily, they weigh what makes good doctors. Thus, they weigh the interview greatly. (WVSOM's policy is an experimental policy that will soon be revoked.)

    4) MDs and DOs are both doctors. There are good and bad allopathic and osteopathic physicians. In the end, it is up to you which type you are going to be.
  38. bwells46

    bwells46 MD, MPH, MSM

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    Bender: It's not ironic, it's just coincidental!

    Woot! 14 more to go for 500!
  39. gujuDoc

    gujuDoc

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    Oh. Generally when I'm on SDN, I don't care if my grammer is correct, as long as my point is made. :D


    I'll save the perfect grammer for the personal statements and school. ;) ;)

    :laugh:
  40. SailCrazy

    SailCrazy I gotta have more cowbell

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    Gotta call you on this one. It's totally wrong.

    While there is a big cut getting to the interview, med schools still interview a lot more students than they offer admission to. Once you are to the interview, a good one it definitely important.

    There are also plenty of cases (many recounted here on SDN) of students with high GPA & MCAT getting a post-interview rejection because they were lacking in the communication department.
  41. SailCrazy

    SailCrazy I gotta have more cowbell

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    Would you also argue the GPA is indicative of one thing and one thing only: your ability to remember facts and concepts in the short term, without any need for long-term recollection or application?

    I'm not saying that I believe this about GPA, but wanted to illustrate that your point on the MCAT is overly simplistic and circular.
  42. USArmyDoc

    USArmyDoc

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    I agree with TREK to a certain extent. However, I dislike when people say "Oh, osteopathic schools look more at the person than allopathic schools." While that could be argued, I think statements like that should be left out. It almost makes it sound like people who apply to osteopathic schools are making excuses for their lower MCATs. By the way, before I get flamed, I am going on my first osteopathic interview next month and will most likely become a DO. All I am getting at is there are factors that differentiate the two different degrees, both which are just as good. :) ;)
  43. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Responsible?!?! PGY3 Moderator Emeritus

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    That might be true if the top score was 40 not 45.
  44. bwells46

    bwells46 MD, MPH, MSM

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    It would also rely on there being a very strong correlation between GPA and MCAT - i.e. a correlation close to 1.
  45. Dr Trek 1

    Dr Trek 1 Senior Member

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    No, because that's not college what a college GPA is. That would be a high school GPA. College GPAs (at least at good colleges) are about your ability to apply and synthesize knowledge. It is not simply memorizing facts for recall. Just as simply memorizing everything there is to know about physics, chem, bio and orgo does not guarantee a good score on the MCAT.

    My case in point, I also do not believe there is any significant correlation between MCAT score and GPA, especially if GPAs were standardized. What goes into GPAs varies so extensively across colleges and universities that I do not believe there is really any way to draw any correlation conclusions from it.

    If a standardized exam (NOT written by AAMC) for each prereq class was given across the country upon completion of every premed class, THAT data would be very helpful in determining correlation between MCAT score and success in college. Keep in mind these standardized exams would need to be very well written, and many short answer/essay questions graded by a large team of experts.

    In conclusion, your GPA is indicative of countless factors that are unique to your particular school, the MCAT is such a standardized exam, that you have to "get good at taking the MCAT". It is a very specialized skill that is pretty useless in any other field. Even the USMLE/COMPLEX exams are very different than the MCAT. These exams are much better at testing your actual knowledge, rather than how good you are at taking them.
  46. Dr Trek 1

    Dr Trek 1 Senior Member

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    I agree with USArmyDoc. Many people do defend DO admissions policies to make up for their own low MCAT scores or GPAs. I am actually writing my master thesis on this type of "quack" motivation that is especially evident when people apply to medical school.

    It is such a shame that a selfless field like medicine has such stereotypical selffish motivation attached to those who go to medical school.
  47. gujuDoc

    gujuDoc

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    I gotta disagree with you on this one. At different schools, college GPA does not indicate the same thing. And for this reason we need MCAT type of tests which tests your ability to synthesize the knowledge in the passage and apply it. Some schools are ridiculously easy and some are not. Some schools have teachers within the school that will be ridiculously hard, and others which are ridiculously easy. Some will have bell curves, while others will have set scales, etc. making it hard to determine how much GPA means anything. GPA does tell us something to a point, but I think the MCAT serves its purposes.

    But again, going back to DO vs. MD..........DO's have lesser averages, not because they look at the whole person, but because there are less people with 35+ MCAT scores that you will see applying to a DO school, then an MD school. Especially if those people with the top stats are peopling wanting to be a PhD or in a major joint program, they will generally go into an MD school.

    MD schools also are where the good majority of the top residency spots go to. Not to say a DO can't get into a good top residency spot, but a DO has a harder time then an MD on many occasions.

    Also, to generalize that every MD school does not look at the whole application or does not take people with slightly lower scores is wrong too. Someone said the lowest MCAT score and still receiving admission in the MSAR was reported to be a 7.

    Bottom line: Don't make a generalization that one looks at this more then that.

    If anything, if all those competitive MD students were to be applying to DO schools instead, the competition would be a lot more stiffer and you wouldn't be able to get in with lower stats, because there are less DO schools and they would want the most competitive all around students.

    But that is clearly not the case. Most people still prefer the MD because it is more universally recognized, because many may not want to do things like OMT, or other such reasons like matters of what their actual career goals are.
  48. SailCrazy

    SailCrazy I gotta have more cowbell

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    I'll reply before you have a chance to edit that post and remove your foot from your mouth... er foot from your fingers, um, foot from the keyboard...? :p

    You have stated that "The MCAT tests one thing and one thing only: How good you are at taking the MCAT."

    When I question this statement with a general query about GPA, you then explain how different schools GPAs can mean totally different things. Your proposed solution to this "problem" is... drumroll please... a standardized test! I have a great idea: let's call it the MCAT. :p

    Here is my interpretation of your messafe so far: "If you didn't to well on the MCAT, say that it is not an effective indicator of anything but test-taking abilities, a flaw of standardized tests. Then if you don't like your GPA, say that your school was really hard and propose standardized testing as the great equalizer."

  49. SailCrazy

    SailCrazy I gotta have more cowbell

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    If you want to make a point, stating a belief (especially one that is likely false) is not a convincing way to support your argument.
  50. Dr Trek 1

    Dr Trek 1 Senior Member

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    I never said that there wasn't a reason for having the MCAT. Yes, we do need a standardized test to test everyone on an equal playing field. However, I do think that all the MCAT and GPA correlations are meaningless due to the variation in what GPAs from college to college.

    I do not think GPAs should be looked at, because they can even be misrepresentative of how well you actually did in certain classes. What is most important is looking at your transcript at the classes you took and how you did in them (I am a big advocate of no grades and just comments by professors as a few colleges do, but, that will probably never be the standardized way.) A GPA is an overgeneralization of your transcript to save time. Medical schools certainly do look at your transcript, but the GPA is still weighed heavily rather than the fact that your 3 Cs were in Advanced Film Ediiting classes or that your 12 As in your science GPA were from baby bio classes.

    My solution? Improve the MCAT exam (which it will be in the future), eliminate GPAs and make medical schools concentrate on transcripts. Is that the most efficient way? Probably not, but I think it's the best way to find good medical students who will make great doctors.

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