Are any of you worried about job market? whats our future as PharmD's?

[MShopes]

I talked to a registered pharmacist today in Walgreens located in brooklyn NY about the job market and she said that finding jobs in NY and the near states are hard right now but any where else is easier to get jobs in. She said that she expects pharmacists to find jobs easier even in NY in about a 5 year period but I couldn't finish the conversation and ask her why she thinks that because she had someone who needed help.

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[xtsukiyox]

Woah, what an eye sore. Please stop posting in bold. Also, don't make me dig out your comments from a quote - next time I won't bother.

Have you heard of allnurses.com?

Yes, please stop assuming people who disagree with you are stupid. That is the subtext to your comments that I find insulting.

Do you work with nurses--?

Yes. They have no trouble finding jobs. In fact, I work with several RNs who get to dictate their terms for working. I also have looked at nursing openings in hospitals in the surrounding area - recently - and they can't hire enough RNs to fill their needs. I spoke with an RN last fall while I had a family member in the hospital, and she said she was here on contract with a fat signing bonus, living allowance, and making bank.

Now let's hear your sources. You have yet to offer anything more than your own observations, with nothing to back them up. Your anecdotal data is no better than mine.

Have you worked in a hospital?

Have you worked in ALL hospitals? Your assumption is that the job market is the same everywhere in the USA, whether for nursing or for pharmacy. This is simply false. Where I live, there is a nursing shortage.

Does USA have enough hospital beds currently? Or are there too many hospitals??

Please quote your source stating one way or the other. I will not be baited into doing your homework for you.

Either way, this is not the nursing forum.

Come on, you really think i am trying to scare people to get a better shot at a job??? That is inflammatory.

Yes. No more inflammatory than your posts. Plus, it's based on experience with others just like you.

You think College xyz will say "darn, that kid dropped that seat, lets go from 170 seats to 169. lets lose $80,000-$100,000 in revenue over four years!!"

This is nonsense. How does this have any bearing on the conversation?

Im only try to help, with my limited on the ground knowledge that seems so far removed from many others.

You have no "on the ground" knowledge better than others on this forum. You are a pharmacy student, not some seasoned pharmacy manager. Every few weeks, a new one of you comes around and tries to say the same thing - with the same attitude & panic-inducing statements. Your posts are nothing special.

i am trying to be friendly by telling you all that i can about pharmacy. i may not be nice, but it is the info that counts.

There is a thread for this. I'm giving you this friendly message because you're new, and I'm assuming you didn't see it. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=639184

truly you sound like a hard working fighter. but i believe pharmacy is a sinking ship. if you were my own kid, i would encourage you to look for something better--yes there is no magical recession proof job, but to sign up for pharmacy, go into debt, and move to the middle of nowhere?--i think there are better alternatives!!

Again, inflammatory value statements - "sinking ship," "move to the middle of nowhere." Please cite your sources.

Just because I'm baiting the troll, I'll ask - where, specifically, is this horrific job market you're talking about?

I realize i was excessively harsh, but it because i know too much about pharmacy. I know too many laid off pharmacists will families, too many p4 students laid off by their intern employer, too many broken dreams.

Dude, you don't understand the pharmacy market then. Here's a hint: some areas are saturated. Some areas are not. Many jobs follow contracts - when one company loses the contract, they lay off, and the company that won the contract is hiring.

Willing to bet I know more people laid off with families than you - ones that weren't making six figures to begin with. I have survived two lay offs in the last 3 years, each time taking half my department with it.

I am not here to put people down, but only to share my info. info that i had to learn the hard way.

What? You're a pharmacy student. What "hard way?"

Y'know what? On second read, don't bother answering my questions. I won't be watching to respond to you any more.

 

[Deja]

deleted mt rambling b/c f it

 

[PharmaTope]

i am trying to be friendly by telling you all that i can about pharmacy. i may not be nice, but it is the info that counts.

truly you sound like a hard working fighter. but i believe pharmacy is a sinking ship. if you were my own kid, i would encourage you to look for something better--yes there is no magical recession proof job, but to sign up for pharmacy, go into debt, and move to the middle of nowhere?--i think there are better alternatives!!

I realize i was excessively harsh, but it because i know too much about pharmacy. I know too many laid off pharmacists will families, too many p4 students laid off by their intern employer, too many broken dreams.

I am not here to put people down, but only to share my info. info that i had to learn the hard way.

i must say that this guy speaks the truth. as a pharmacist with residency training, i can say finding new jobs is very tough even with experience. you aren't competing with just new graduates, you are competing with others with residency, older experienced pharmacists who might want to relocate, people with connections into a job (the job gets posted online and newspaper as part of a human resources formality).

i encourage as many people to avoid pharmacy as possible. it is not worth the debt and abusive work conditions (if you work retail especially). it really puts you and your family in a tough situation due to debt. salaries are dropping and have come down. i know some pharmacists working for $40/hr. this is much different than the numbers you are being sold by the universities.

 

[PolymeraseIII]

I am so tired of seeing these posts.

 

[iBeast]

i am trying to be friendly by telling you all that i can about pharmacy. i may not be nice, but it is the info that counts.

truly you sound like a hard working fighter. but i believe pharmacy is a sinking ship. if you were my own kid, i would encourage you to look for something better--yes there is no magical recession proof job, but to sign up for pharmacy, go into debt, and move to the middle of nowhere?--i think there are better alternatives!!

I realize i was excessively harsh, but it because i know too much about pharmacy. I know too many laid off pharmacists will families, too many p4 students laid off by their intern employer, too many broken dreams.

I am not here to put people down, but only to share my info. info that i had to learn the hard way.

So what do you think Pharmacy will look like 5 years from now? Decrease in salary, less demand, etc.

 

[babybull]

the days of interning without pay are close. or, they're already here. that is my plan, at least.

 

[DelawareStudent]

Yes. They have no trouble finding jobs. In fact, I work with several RNs who get to dictate their terms for working. I also have looked at nursing openings in hospitals in the surrounding area - recently - and they can't hire enough RNs to fill their needs. I spoke with an RN last fall while I had a family member in the hospital, and she said she was here on contract with a fat signing bonus, living allowance, and making bank.

My wife graduated as an RN last May (2011). The class before her, her class, and the class after her took an average of 6 months to find a job. There we no signing bonuses This is in Delaware, with several large hospitals very close by.

My wife can only get limited OT get's called off at least twice a month. She works in a Magnate Certified hospital with over 1,100 beds and roughly 170k patients through the ER annual.

She currently has a tech working on her floor who is an RN's (fully licensed).

Nurses and Pharmacists face the same constraints everyone else does in this economy.

Also, many of these Per Diem "fat contract" nurses you're talking about require moving, provide no benefits, and require at least 1 year of on the job experience.

 

[xtsukiyox]

i must say that this guy speaks the truth. as a pharmacist with residency training, i can say finding new jobs is very tough even with experience.

Thanks for writing. I know I appreciate the viewpoint of someone actually in the rat race. I'm sure you've said before, but if you don't mind me asking again - what market? What sorts of jobs are you talking about in particular (not retail, I'm guessing)?

This is in Delaware, with several large hospitals very close by.

I'm talking about a different market. I'm absolutely sure that the situation where I'm talking is not everywhere and is probably an isolated occurrence. I guess that was my point, that there are few generalizations that can be made about all markets everywhere in the US. I appreciate you listing the "where."

Nurses and Pharmacists face the same constraints everyone else does in this economy.

Unfortunately. People are losing benefits or can't afford copays, so they don't seek medical care as frequently in a bad economy. Like any business, hospitals are responsible for the bottom line. Where do you cut? So-called "ancillary" services, like more patients per nurse and fewer pharmacists. FWIW, I think nurses are seriously undervalued as healthcare providers, especially sub-NPs.

Also, many of these Per Diem "fat contract" nurses you're talking about require moving, provide no benefits, and require at least 1 year of on the job experience.

Yes, it's hard to get a job as any new graduate these days. It's a temporary situation, because eventually you will have that 1 year of on the job experience, but it's really hard to get an "in." If I didn't mention, I did mean that the contract almost always required moving. But the gal I was talking to said all the contract RNs there got a living allowance and benefits (although the cost of healthcare for nurses is RIDICULOUS, with capitals & angry face - that's a whole 'nother topic, tho'). I don't think they're hiring fat contract per diem nurses in your area, either... it'd just be for those places they have a shortage, yeah?

 

[DelawareStudent]

xtsukyov: Without quoting your post, I'd say you hit each point pretty well on the head.

The hospitals in this area seems to employ a fair number of per diems - it may just work well for their staffing model, not sure. Also not sure on how many per diem openings they generally have.

As a side note - at home care and outpatient care seem to have a lot of openings, but pay less here.

 

[Rph888]

I do not expect any response, but I need to answer so others may benefit..

Again, inflammatory value statements - "sinking ship," "move to the middle of nowhere." Please cite your sources.

Just because I'm baiting the troll, I'll ask - where, specifically, is this horrific job market you're talking about?
Los Angeles, San Diego, Bay Area-CA, Seattle Metro area, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Denver, DFW Metroplex, Houston, Austin, Omaha, Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte, Philadelphia.

That is 100 % anecdotal evidence from other students, pharmacists, and company representatives...Are there available jobs in those places?? Absolutely!! Yet there are too many applicants i believe--thus the saturation.


Dude, you don't understand the pharmacy market then. Here's a hint: some areas are saturated. Some areas are not. Many jobs follow contracts - when one company loses the contract, they lay off, and the company that won the contract is hiring.
No, very few pharmacy FTEs are contracts.

What? You're a pharmacy student. What "hard way?"
The hard way is taking your old pharmacy manager to lunch and finding out she got laid off. The hard way is finding out the class that graduated 7 months ago still has unemployed students in January. Seeing your old boss jobless is quite moving.

Y'know what? On second read, don't bother answering my questions. I won't be watching to respond to you any more.

 

[Rph888]

I am so tired of seeing these posts.

I am tired of talking to my colleagues who are underemployed due to the excess of Rph labor. I am tired of hearing that p4 interns were not offered jobs. I am sad to talk to recent graduates with no work in January.

So what do you think Pharmacy will look like 5 years from now? Decrease in salary, less demand, etc.

Salary will stagnate or fall slightly. Older Rph are already being forced out--I personally know 2 pharmacists like this. they were making $64/hr+, new hire comes in at lower rate...you get the picture.

demand is currently stagnating and im betting its going lower. wag-express scripts may lead to increased cvs/ wmt building but that is hopeful at best. many pharmacy retailers assault daily--albertsons/supervalu, regional markets, kmart.

retail labor drives wages, and it is falling

pm me if you want more info on rph labor outlook

 

[DelawareStudent]

Made some adjustments to highlight the generality of these statements in today's market.

I am tired of talking to my colleagues who are underemployed due to the excess of (insert any job here) labor. I am tired of hearing that (insert any college major here) were not offered jobs. I am sad to talk to recent graduates with no work in January.

Salary will stagnate or fall slightly. Older (insert any job title here) are already being forced out--I personally know 2 (insert any job title here) like this. they were making (more money), new hire comes in at lower rate...you get the picture.


retail labor drives wages, and it is falling

pm me if you want more most likely true for the current environment, but ultimately short sighted and tunnel visioned info on (any kind of) labor outlook

 

[PolymeraseIII]

I am tired of talking to my colleagues who are underemployed due to the excess of Rph labor. I am tired of hearing that p4 interns were not offered jobs. I am sad to talk to recent graduates with no work in January.



Salary will stagnate or fall slightly. Older Rph are already being forced out--I personally know 2 pharmacists like this. they were making $64/hr+, new hire comes in at lower rate...you get the picture.

demand is currently stagnating and im betting its going lower. wag-express scripts may lead to increased cvs/ wmt building but that is hopeful at best. many pharmacy retailers assault daily--albertsons/supervalu, regional markets, kmart.

retail labor drives wages, and it is falling

pm me if you want more info on rph labor outlook

Yeah, economics... supply and demand.

 

[Buk Lau]

Made some adjustments to highlight the generality of these statements in today's market.

Yess. Which was my point earlier on. Everyone can't find jobs easily. It's not like everyone is unemployed coming out of pharm school, and it may even be luck, but some get jobs and some don't. The economy is harsh right now but what can we do? We're all ambitious and that's just human nature. Survival of the fittest.

 

[chemguy79]

Spot on Delaware Student! The same trolls frequent the board and they fail to even give credence to the fact that EVERY field in the health sciences is getting more difficult to find a job.

I truly laugh loudly because these posters act as if Pharmacy is the ONLY field that is experiencing saturation. I still contend that said saturation will separate the cream from the crop, as it has already done at my company. (I work for a pharmaceutical company.) If you merely were happy to earn your Chemistry degree with a 2.5 GPA, no connections nor internships, you're going to have an incredibly tough time finding a job. Does it suck? Yes, but it's reality and I'd like to think that my hard work will be rewarded over someone who had the mindset of C = degree.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Please, please learn how to use the quote functionality! Bolding your statements because you don't know how to use it is ignorant.

Just because I'm baiting the troll, I'll ask - where, specifically, is this horrific job market you're talking about?

Los Angeles, San Diego, Bay Area-CA, Seattle Metro area, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Denver, DFW Metroplex, Houston, Austin, Omaha, Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte, Philadelphia.

That is 100 % anecdotal evidence from other students, pharmacists, and company representatives...Are there available jobs in those places?? Absolutely!! Yet there are too many applicants i believe--thus the saturation.

I have to lol at a couple of these, because I know the markets intimately. There is no way you know all of these as well as you think you do. Some of these still have quite a good demand. I'm not so delusional to think that I know the state of every market you've listed, across the USA.

Dude, you don't understand the pharmacy market then. Here's a hint: some areas are saturated. Some areas are not. Many jobs follow contracts - when one company loses the contract, they lay off, and the company that won the contract is hiring.

No, very few pharmacy FTEs are contracts.

Not "pharmacy FTEs on contracts." Not sure how you even got that from what I said. What sort of contracts would a company that hires pharmacists gain or lose that would impact their budgeting for FTE?

What? You're a pharmacy student. What "hard way?"

The hard way is taking your old pharmacy manager to lunch and finding out she got laid off. The hard way is finding out the class that graduated 7 months ago still has unemployed students in January. Seeing your old boss jobless is quite moving.

Mmm hmm, and I got to watch my boss who had worked her way up from the bottom of the company get demoted & then laid off due to budgetary concerns and scramble to find a worse job. It's tough out there.

I'ma go out on a limb and guess that you were born in 88 (based on your user name), which means you're 23 (or maybe 24) and you took the short track to pharmacy - it would have been near impossible for you to do anything else at that age. You still have a lot to learn about the working world, and that certainly colors your opinions.

ETA: Didn't really need to respond to the first or last point, but I figured since I was responding to the middle point to clarify for others reading this thread, I might as well.

 

[chemguy79]

Please, please learn how to use the quote functionality! Bolding your statements because you don't know how to use it is ignorant.




I have to lol at a couple of these, because I know the markets intimately. There is no way you know all of these as well as you think you do. Some of these still have quite a good demand. I'm not so delusional to think that I know the state of every market you've listed, across the USA.





Not "pharmacy FTEs on contracts." Not sure how you even got that from what I said. What sort of contracts would a company that hires pharmacists gain or lose that would impact their budgeting for FTE?




Mmm hmm, and I got to watch my boss who had worked her way up from the bottom of the company get demoted & then laid off due to budgetary concerns and scramble to find a worse job. It's tough out there.

I'ma go out on a limb and guess that you were born in 88 (based on your user name), which means you're 23 (or maybe 24) and you took the short track to pharmacy - it would have been near impossible for you to do anything else at that age. You still have a lot to learn about the working world, and that certainly colors your opinions.

ETA: Didn't really need to respond to the first or last point, but I figured since I was responding to the middle point to clarify for others reading this thread, I might as well.

Well done, xtsukiyox.

 

[PharmDSSStudent]

why is Pharmacy the only Professional Medical Doctorate that do not call each other Doctor either? I think that would change with more clinical, and patient management roles.

Its only name, I know it doesn't matter - but - Godsake, PA's call each other Doctor, and they only went to grad-school for 2years.

P.A.'s arent doctors and should NOT be calling themselves as such. Many pharmacists discourage being called doctor because it confuses patients as to who is diagnosing them (they are confused enough already). Asking patients to call the pharmacist "Dr." builds a wall in the pharmacist/patient relationship. The title of "Dr." carries an overtone of superiority. The pharmacist is the most accessible healthcare professional, so it is important that we maintain the public perception that we are humble and approachable. It is dishonorable to the tradition of pharmacy and the current RPh's for new Pharm D's to waltz into the pharmacy and expect to be called "Dr."
--just my opinion

 

[MShopes]

Any one who holds a doctoral degree should be called a doctor. MD should be called a physician to reduce confusion. Our degree is called "doctor of pharmacy" degree (PharmD), much like doctor of philosophy (PhD) and Doctor of medicine (MD).

Why do we still call professors in college doctors if it's hard to call ourselves doctors as well. Come on now....

 

[Notecard]

Any one who holds a doctoral degree should be called a doctor. MD should be called a physician to reduce confusion. Our degree is called "doctor of pharmacy" degree (PharmD), much like doctor of philosophy (PhD) and Doctor of medicine (MD).

Why do we still call professors in college doctors if it's hard to call ourselves doctors as well. Come on now....

Not sure if serious

 

[MShopes]

Not sure if serious

Not sure if being sarcastic....but no for real, I'm serious....what's there to joke about?

 

[xtsukiyox]

Well done, xtsukiyox.

Thanks. I'm trying not to counter-troll too badly. Guess I lied when I said I wouldn't be watching for a response...

Not sure if being sarcastic....but no for real, I'm serious....what's there to joke about?

To be honest, I tend to agree with you. I heard somewhere that about 1% of the US will ever earn a doctorate or equivalent. However, it's undeniable that "doctor" is equivalent in mainstream language use that it means "medical doctor." Maybe it's just me, but I think I've seen a push to rename medical practitioners "physicians," which, while only somewhat more precise, at least gets away from the problem-ridden "doctor" title.

Would it be nice if everyone with a doctorate got called "doctor" instead of "mister/missus" (and, conversely, that only doctorate holders get the title)? Yes. Is that going to happen in our lifetime? No. Am I going to get a box of checks that say "Dr."? Absolutely.

PS, I think we've had this conversation: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=866905

 

[DelawareStudent]

I'm pursuing a doctorate solely for the purpose of one day recreating the scene from 'Spys Like Us' in a professional setting. Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor......

 

[fishert16]

Ok guys I haven't been on here in quite some time, but after reading through this thread I feel like I need to share my thoughts. I am currently a P3 at Texas Tech, I state this as I saw a couple references to my school.

First and foremost there is a lot of information here that I feel is downright misleading and upsetting, especially when I think of the reason I decided to pursue pharmacy. No matter what you decide to do in life, you have to enjoy what you are going to do. Of course you want to pick a career that will yield you a rewarding job, as no one wants to go through a rigorous program and take on the responsibility only to be without a job and a mountain of debt.

With that said, the statement above about MD's/DO's not complaining about job availability is correct. On the other hand have you talked to many MD/DO's that are confident about their future? The state of our Nations healthcare system is in limbo and only compounded by our ever increasing national debt. Reimbursement for both pharmacy and medical is on a sharp decline. This impacts the entire medical community and no one is immune. PA's and NPC's are the future of primary care if our medical model continues the way it is, and I assure you many physicians are feeling this pressure.

I ask you to think about it in two ways. First, no one is challenging the role of a pharmacist. I agree that we as a profession need more power in Washington to get our roles expanded, but do you see any future expansion in any of the other careers mentioned above (MD/DO/RN etc). Pharmacy is not obsolete and is not heading in that direction, this seems to be an ole wives tell that I have heard to many times "oh can't a robot/computer do your job?" Secondly, we are in the best position to make a change with the changing health care system. Are any of you all familiar with the current VA model, or any Military base? Pharmacist play the role as a PCP, not diagnosing but seeing most of the patients coming in for chronic diseases that have been previously diagnosed (i.e. dyslipidemia, DM, HTN, INR management, OA, RA, and the list goes on).

With all of the positives in the light, yes the job market is dwindling but that is more of an issue with schools opening and flooding the market. This is not related to our profession going away, you may ask why the hell are all these schools opening? Mainly because of the huge deficit our profession had a decade ago. Schools can not get funding and built over night. This is a problem but I can tell you that I have not had one of my previous two graduating classmates jobless. Some may have had to move, but I know a P4 student right now that is moving for WG's and did get a sign on bonus. So its not a phantom of the past.

I can go on for hours about choosing a school based on the education you receive rather than what is easy. I personally thought about it this way, I can choose any state school for basically the same amount so why not choose the one where I will receive the best education for the money. Why is this the only avenue in life that we choose to get the worst value for our money? I can assure you my school is one of the toughest in the nation and I have the data to back it up, for instance we start rotations our P3 year. We have the same P4 year as everyone else as well, eight 6 week rotations 8 hours a day. We take >20 hours every semester to achieve the curriculum in 2.5 years and have no option to retake classes over the summer if you fail. If you fail your back a year. My school isn't perfect as they all have issues but I see most of the pre-pharmacy students using the wrong thought process about choosing a career.

Sorry for such a long post, and if anyone has any questions you can PM me and Ill be happy to answer them. Pharmacy is not for everyone, but we currently have a critical role in healthcare from both a retail and clinical perspective.

 

[Nelcovp]

I'm glad I have a solid back up plan..... lotto winner!

 

[Incitatus]

P.A.'s arent doctors and should NOT be calling themselves as such. Many pharmacists discourage being called doctor because it confuses patients as to who is diagnosing them (they are confused enough already). Asking patients to call the pharmacist "Dr." builds a wall in the pharmacist/patient relationship. The title of "Dr." carries an overtone of superiority. The pharmacist is the most accessible healthcare professional, so it is important that we maintain the public perception that we are humble and approachable. It is dishonorable to the tradition of pharmacy and the current RPh's for new Pharm D's to waltz into the pharmacy and expect to be called "Dr."
--just my opinion

Exactly. We also don't want patients getting confused.

 

[xtsukiyox]

I'm glad I have a solid back up plan..... lotto winner!

Man, somebody won on Saturday. I forgot to play.

 

[goldenboy212]

I have accepted a seat to Pharm School, and have a few interviews pending.

I can not get over the fear of paying 60k - 140k in tuition, with a profession that is threatened to go obsolete. The more I research, the more I wish Pharmacist had a stronger union, and pull in Washington - and controlling this rapid amount of school growth.

I despise retail - and worried I'll get pigeon held into it with the outlook on Pharmacy residencies. I want to help with drug therapy,and work in a hospital where I can have maximum patient interaction.

On a good note, 2015 baby boomers will be prime age, and hopefully we can play a important role during those times.




have any of you thought about this question before you apply? please do your research, the job market for pharmacist is not great, and the profession itself is threatened if we do not have people in Washington expand our scope and responsibilities.

Jobs are VERY tough to find. Many pharmacists are out of work, I know 7 people I graduated with that live in rural areas that can't get in more than 24 hours a week unfortunately. There is a large surplus of pharmacists due to many circumstances. From what I hear and see, Physicans Assistants (PA) are the best options right now. Save yourself the 4 years, their salaries are steadily increasing. I wouldn't be surprised in 4 years if they're more than a pharmacist, it's all about supply and demand. Good luck young hopeful students.

 

[lisinopril]

I'm pursuing a doctorate solely for the purpose of one day recreating the scene from 'Spys Like Us' in a professional setting. Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor......

Unfortunately, you won't be called "Dr..." when you practice pharmacy.

 

[lisinopril]

The large surplus created due to several factors, including: expansion of pharmacy schools, slow/halting expansion of pharmacy chains, and a large number of part-time pharmacists going back to full-time status. It's all cause and effect. Nothing can be done about it, unfortunately. You can't stop schools from expanding enrollment due to business. Schools are businesses. More students= more income. As simple as that.

 

[BenJammin]

i encourage as many people to avoid pharmacy as possible. it is not worth the debt and abusive work conditions (if you work retail especially). it really puts you and your family in a tough situation due to debt. salaries are dropping and have come down. i know some pharmacists working for $40/hr. this is much different than the numbers you are being sold by the universities.

As someone that worked in the fields growing up and on an oil rig one summer to get tuition money, I find that comment to be ridiculous and borderline offensive. Abusive work conditions? hahaha that's funny

 

[chemguy79]

As someone that worked in the fields growing up and on an oil rig one summer to get tuition money, I find that comment to be ridiculous and borderline offensive. Abusive work conditions? hahaha that's funny

I completely agree!

PharmaTope's extreme exaggeration of the plight of pharmacists has become tired and cumbersome. Heaven forbid, $40/hour! *gasp* Relative to student loan debt, some MAY say that this isn't amazing income. However, it's practically DOUBLE the hourly wage of most professions.

 

[Rx MPLS]

One (small) plus for pharmacy is that so many new practitioners are female, which means that there will be fewer hours worked per practitioner as more will take maternity leave or cut back on hours when having children than if the profession was still male-dominated.

 

[Incitatus]

i encourage as many people to avoid pharmacy as possible. it is not worth the debt and abusive work conditions (if you work retail especially). it really puts you and your family in a tough situation due to debt. salaries are dropping and have come down. i know some pharmacists working for $40/hr. this is much different than the numbers you are being sold by the universities.

This is silly. I've worked retail pharmacy for 8 years, and this is simply not true. Sure, there are some very ugly patients, and there absolutely are difficult times, but that is in no way the norm, nor is it indicative of "abusive work conditions"

This is a very people-oriented profession. If you even for a moment think you'll be working as a community pharmacist (even if just briefly) you need to shadow/Volunteer/work as a tech BEFORE you do so.

I've worked at a 600script/day store, a 1000+script/day store and a 200 script/day store and just about everything in between.
I've been threatened, cursed at, screamed at, and disrespected every which way. But no more than anyone else in any kind of "people profession."

Excluding regulars who get maintenance drugs, few people come to the pharmacy on a good day. Their kids/spouse/parents are sick, they are sick, they are exhausted, etc. You need to go into this profession with both eyes open, knowing that you're not just going to have peachy-fine days all the time, and from time to time you're going to have a real peach or two that are going to try their best to make you miserable (or so it seems).

You either have a passion for this profession or you have a passion for how this profession is compensated. One will make you a happy and terrific pharmacist, the other will make you a miserable person who feels abused and disrespected. There are plenty of examples of both here on SDN and out in the field.

 

[stardreamergurl]

I work as a waitress in a little breakfast cafe, and this last saturday my last table were these two older men. They started talking to me and asked what I was doing with my life. I said I was pre-pharmacy / chemistry, and one of them responded, "That's funny. I OWN a pharmacy." So we chit chatted, and he strongly advised me against pharmacy, but still invited me to call him for an opportunity to shadow/work/ whatever! He said that he gets graduates coming by a lot to apply but he cannot hire them. I know he might have a bias because he is the owner and probably cannot afford to hire new pharmacists right now, especially in the Chicago area. He definitely scared me a little. He said if I could I should switch my career goals . But I talked to my friend and found a new confidence! I know everywhere is hurting right now, maybe pharmacy especially, but hard work will pay off! *__*

 

[bw6]

You either have a passion for this profession or you have a passion for how this profession is compensated. One will make you a happy and terrific pharmacist, the other will make you a miserable person who feels abused and disrespected. There are plenty of examples of both here on SDN and out in the field.

Agreed.

All of this concern over the job market is ridiculous. Don't misunderstand, I am not saying it is ridiculous to be concerned about the decline of the industry but it is ridiculous to act as though pharmacy is a terrible profession to get into. Yeah, it is hard times for the pharmacist. But it is also hard times for the nurse, the engineer, the biochemist, the waitress, even the freakin bus driver. It is a bad economy and everyone feels the effects. People are acting as though pharmacy is a terrible profession to pursue just because the days of graduating with 3 job offers for 6 figure incomes have passed.

If you really want to pursue this as a profession and you are willing to put the work in, you can still find jobs. Just network and make yourself competitive. PharmD = job is simply not true anymore and people seem to be shocked by this. WHEN you find a job it will still be great paying.

Almost every other profession has to hunt for jobs and the pharmacist is no exception anymore. The pay is good and you can still find a job if you make yourself an attractive applicant while earning your doctorate.

Don't let all of these negative people scare you away from the profession you want to pursue. The economy is hurting everyone.

 

[DelawareStudent]

Unfortunately, you won't be called "Dr..." when you practice pharmacy.

The point of the post was to poke fun at the idea of pursuing a career solely for the purpose of the title, and not the career itself. Sorry if that confused you.

 

[Rx MPLS]

Agreed.

All of this concern over the job market is ridiculous. Don't misunderstand, I am not saying it is ridiculous to be concerned about the decline of the industry but it is ridiculous to act as though pharmacy is a terrible profession to get into. Yeah, it is hard times for the pharmacist. But it is also hard times for the nurse, the engineer, the biochemist, the waitress, even the freakin bus driver. It is a bad economy and everyone feels the effects. People are acting as though pharmacy is a terrible profession to pursue just because the days of graduating with 3 job offers for 6 figure incomes have passed.

If you really want to pursue this as a profession and you are willing to put the work in, you can still find jobs. Just network and make yourself competitive. PharmD = job is simply not true anymore and people seem to be shocked by this. WHEN you find a job it will still be great paying.

Almost every other profession has to hunt for jobs and the pharmacist is no exception anymore. The pay is good and you can still find a job if you make yourself an attractive applicant while earning your doctorate.

Don't let all of these negative people scare you away from the profession you want to pursue. The economy is hurting everyone.

Healthcare isn't quite the same as the regular economy though, as insurance makes things work very differently than they would in a free market. I don't think it's the economy specifically that's hurting pharmacy currently; a lot has to do with healthcare reform (or lack thereof?) and uncertainty, leading to companies strongly restricting expansion of pharmacies. There are also middle men (pharmacy benefit management companies -- PBMs) that are trying to get their slice of the pie.

Add in a large expansion of schools plus a saggy economy and things are getting pretty icky out there. I'm not unreasonably scared, but I am worried.

 

[Rph888]

i encourage as many people to avoid pharmacy as possible. it is not worth the debt and abusive work conditions (if you work retail especially). it really puts you and your family in a tough situation due to debt. salaries are dropping and have come down. i know some pharmacists working for $40/hr. this is much different than the numbers you are being sold by the universities.

As someone that worked in the fields growing up and on an oil rig one summer to get tuition money, I find that comment to be ridiculous and borderline offensive. Abusive work conditions? hahaha that's funny

No, it is not funny. I am happy that you are so fortunate not to experience those abusive work conditions in pharmacy... A common example is having your job threatened daily--flu shot quotas ring a bell? How about time metrics?. Another condition is having a handgun stuck in your face--this happens more than many would like to believe. My favorite abuse is "if this is not filled in 15 min i am going to write a letter to corporate!! heck i am on medicaid and i have no time to wait!!"

I work as a waitress in a little breakfast cafe, and this last saturday my last table were these two older men. They started talking to me and asked what I was doing with my life. I said I was pre-pharmacy / chemistry, and one of them responded, "That's funny. I OWN a pharmacy." So we chit chatted, and he strongly advised me against pharmacy, but still invited me to call him for an opportunity to shadow/work/ whatever! He said that he gets graduates coming by a lot to apply but he cannot hire them. I know he might have a bias because he is the owner and probably cannot afford to hire new pharmacists right now, especially in the Chicago area. He definitely scared me a little. He said if I could I should switch my career goals . But I talked to my friend and found a new confidence! I know everywhere is hurting right now, maybe pharmacy especially, but hard work will pay off! *__*

so a pharmacy owner tells you wholeheartedly not to pursue pharmacy because he sees himself that there are too many pharmacists, and you talk to your friend who does not own a pharmacy, yet you believe your friend?

please take him up on that offer and find out more!! Sounds like a great pharmacy owner to me!

 

[BenJammin]

No, it is not funny. I am happy that you are so fortunate not to experience those abusive work conditions in pharmacy... A common example is having your job threatened daily--flu shot quotas ring a bell? How about time metrics?. Another condition is having a handgun stuck in your face--this happens more than many would like to believe. My favorite abuse is "if this is not filled in 15 min i am going to write a letter to corporate!! heck i am on medicaid and i have no time to wait!!"!

There is no way you're being serious. A guy that used to go to school with my sister was killed in a meat grinding accident last year. On the oil rig we had to work at high heights sometimes with the possibility of falling not to mention all of the people I knew that lost digits on the machinery...

...and you want to tell me that a flu shot quota makes your job conditions abusive? hahahahaha

 

[DelawareStudent]

...and you want to tell me that a flu shot quota makes your job conditions abusive? hahahahaha

Ah yes, when I was in Afghanistan (making ~1/3rd of what a retail pharmacist makes) , I distinctly remember the many times I said to myself "At least I don't have a flu shot quota"

 

[bw6]

This thread is becoming derailed by a petty argument. A pharmacist does not have an abusive work condition compared to anyone who does manual labor. Maybe compared to other health care professionals it is abusive... but that is not the point of this thread go create another thread RPh888, if you are inclined to complain about working conditions.

Back to the job market...

I have friends in their P2 and P3 years at different schools who say that nearly every single one of the P4s graduating have jobs lined up or matched for residencies. It seems to me that a lot of the people complaining about not finding jobs either went to a poorly respected school with low admissions standards, didn't do well in school, or is an RPh without a PharmD that has been out of the work place for a while.

That is all just speculation so don't jump all over me for it.

The fact still remains that the majority of graduating PharmD students find jobs.

 

[owlegrad]

I have a job lined up, so as far as I am concerned the job market is just fine.

No worries I am sure after a little while I will start complaining about the working conditions, the salary that barely allows me to live above the poverty line, and in general about how hard we have it.

Once I start making student loan payments, I almost certainly will start complaining about those though.

 

[DelawareStudent]

Work hard, stay educated, and focus on your (realistic) goals and you will do fine.

Be lazy, expect more than you deserve, and complain loudly when you don't get it and you will likely spend the rest of your life in threads like this.

 

[bw6]

Work hard, stay educated, and focus on your (realistic) goals and you will do fine.

Be lazy, expect more than you deserve, and complain loudly when you don't get it and you will likely spend the rest of your life in threads like this.

 

[MShopes]

Work hard, stay educated, and focus on your (realistic) goals and you will do fine.

Be lazy, expect more than you deserve, and complain loudly when you don't get it and you will likely spend the rest of your life in threads like this.

LOL dude, while your general comment holds true for any job, you are a pre-pharmacy....you don't know what the future is like or how hard is it to find jobs.

 

[chemguy79]

I have a job lined up, so as far as I am concerned the job market is just fine.

No worries I am sure after a little while I will start complaining about the working conditions, the salary that barely allows me to live above the poverty line, and in general about how hard we have it.

Once I start making student loan payments, I almost certainly will start complaining about those though.

Thank You, owlegrad!

Deplorable working conditions? LMFAO I can't believe that someone is ACTUALLY saying that, especially with the salaries that they're making. It is absolutely ridiculous.

Oh no, someone is threatening to call your manager for something that you don't have control over? Welcome to the real world along with every other job in the country! MD's surely hear the same thing as well, so should people avoid going to med school for the "deplorable" working conditions. Some people are ridiculously sheltered ...

 

[xtsukiyox]

A common example is having your job threatened daily--flu shot quotas ring a bell?

Sales quotas anyone? I sold mortgages & home equity loans when the market was crashing.

How about time metrics?.

And I had 180 seconds to do so, in addition to helping with whatever else they needed.

Another condition is having a handgun stuck in your face--this happens more than many would like to believe.

Funny that this didn't make the top of your list - wagering it's because you've never had it happen to you. I've received bomb threats, and one phone call I escalated where the call ended with a gunshot. Pharmacy probably won that round, although it wouldn't have had I worked as a teller.

My favorite abuse is "if this is not filled in 15 min i am going to write a letter to corporate!! heck i am on medicaid and i have no time to wait!!"

About 10% of my customers escalated to my supervisor for complaints, over 95% of which I had nothing to do with. In both situations, it has to do with displaced blame for poor planning that the company and its representatives can't do anything about - forgot to drop off a prescription / call in a refill, forgot to make a deposit / overspent the account. At least two or three times a day, I'd simply get verbally abused (this tends to happen less in person than on the phone). As it gets into the holiday season, up that to two or three times before lunch.

You learn to get zen about complaints, or the customers (and your supervisor) will walk all over you. This is not unique to pharmacy, it is a common facet of every job dealing with people anywhere. And if you don't believe that's every job in the world, you work for Amazon Mechanical Turk.

Here's a phrase to tuck away: "I'm sorry sir, but if we're unable to have this conversation in a polite and professional manner, I will be unable to continue the discussion." Yes, it works in person, if you have the nerve.

The kicker? This job paid about a quarter (gross) of what a pharmacist makes, and I was happy to have it.

I can't believe this guy. Did he seriously compare retail pharmacy to oil rig work?

 

[chemguy79]

Completely agree, xtsukiyox. I only wish that I could have grown up in his sheltered bubble where working as a pharmacist can even be considered to be "abusive working conditions." It's laughable and offensive.