Are any of you worried about job market? whats our future as PharmD's?

[owlegrad]

You learn to get zen about complaints, or the customers (and your supervisor) will walk all over you. This is not unique to pharmacy, it is a common facet of every job dealing with people anywhere. And if you don't believe that's every job in the world, you work for Amazon Mechanical Turk.

Sage advice. Working retail is all about perspective. If you know in your heart that you are doing your best, complaints are meaningless to you. Who cares that some asshat can't wait 30 minutes for their lifesaving medication that they COULD have requested days ago and it would already be done? You do the best you can and move on.

In an odd way, once you stop caring about the small stuff, in some ways you give better service. Who cares if a coupon is three months expired? Give them the stupid 50 cent off cat food and move on with your day. Can't get a script out in 15 minutes? Oh well, so sorry, next please!

Do the best you can, ignore the rest. If you have any experience with retail at all, pharmacy does not seem so bad. Anyone who hates working in a pharmacy should try working in a clothing store, I still have nightmares.

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[DelawareStudent]

LOL dude, while your general comment holds true for any job, you are a pre-pharmacy....you don't know what the future is like or how hard is it to find jobs.

Seriously? The future is whatever you decide to make it.

I'm nearly 30 and I'm getting ready to go back to school full time. After turning 18, I spent 6 years serving our country in the US Air Force before I got out and decided to pursue the American Dream. Shortly after buying my first house, the economy and housing market tanked. Fortunately for me, I was in the fail proof industry of Newspaper Advertising Sales......

However...it seems that I'm still employed...full time...in a well enough paying (different) job rather than being an unemployed ex-newspaper account exec who complains all day about the job market. And rather than accept the fact that the job I have is only "Good Enough" I decided to go back to school. And thanks to the GI Bill I earned, I will get a mostly free ride through Pharm School.

In 4 years, I'll still be relatively debt free, and a PharmD.....how did I accomplish all this?

Worked hard, stayed educated, and focused on my (realistic) goals

Life is whatever you make it. Stop b****ing and do something.

 

[owlegrad]

Seriously? The future is whatever you decide to make it.

I'm nearly 30 and I'm getting ready to go back to school full time. After turning 18, I spent 6 years serving our country in the US Air Force before I got out and decided to pursue the American Dream. Shortly after buying my first house, the economy and housing market tanked. Fortunately for me, I was in the fail proof industry of Newspaper Advertising Sales......

However...it seems that I'm still employed...full time...in a well enough paying (different) job rather than being an unemployed ex-newspaper account exec who complains all day about the job market. And rather than accept the fact that the job I have is only "Good Enough" I decided to go back to school. And thanks to the GI Bill I earned, I will get a mostly free ride through Pharm School.

In 4 years, I'll still be relatively debt free, and a PharmD.....how did I accomplish all this?

Worked hard, stayed educated, and focused on my (realistic) goals

Life is whatever you make it. Stop b****ing and do something.

You can fill out a help desk ticket to get an air force badge, if you want.

 

[goldenboy212]

As a pharmacist/ medical-student, I am typically in the other sub-forums, but I happen to stumble upon this thread. So I'm going to give my 2 cents, since that's what forums are all about, as well as some professional knowledge, from experience. Right now the job market is bad everywhere, some places from what I hear, aren't as bad as say, the north-east. (I'm from the south). Many factors influence the job market, supply/demand etc, and right now jobs are very limited in retail, and I can tell you this, 85% of people who claim they want to do a residency, don't actually do it. Unfortunately the way the "system" is set up, you don't make any extra money doing a residency (your pay is actually less when you finish as opposed to retail), and that does NOT guarantee you a job. I have heard of 3 pharmacy directors at big hospitals that had residents for the ONLY reason of CHEAP labor. They had no intentions of hiring any of them after, so they were SOL when completion came. Since most of you on here are Pre-Pharms you have no real idea of what pharmacy is actually like. All of the glorifying of MTM, and helping patients and change the world and save lives is actually ALOT OF BS (even in the hospital). Very VERY few pharmacists work with patients directly on their medication and their outcomes, (ALL DO A RESIDENCY). Retail is a fast paced work environment and the fastest people with the best people skills do well, you can't stress or else it will eat you up alive, and the sad part about retail is another 80% of what you learn is USELESS there. I am in medical school, so I have no vested interest in any of you succeeding or getting a job or doing whatever you want to do. The job market is VERY tough, and a few of my colleagues in pharmacy school can only get part time right now. Loans are piling up, it is a scary thought. I am not trying to deter anyone from entering the field, it is all about numbers right now and from what I have read, there are WAY to many new schools opening, which is compounded by a lot of schools enlarging their class size to create a TON of new graduates. All of these graduates NEED jobs to pay back loans etc. It will be a fight to get a job especially when you guys graduate. I hope the best for all of you, when you apply to school look to your left and your right at interviews, all of those people will be fighting for your job too. Good Luck everyone, and good luck with the admissions process.

 

[DelawareStudent]

You can fill out a help desk ticket to get an air force badge, if you want.

O rly? They made it sound like it was for Officers only. I'll give it a shot.

 

[Rph888]

There is no way you're being serious. A guy that used to go to school with my sister was killed in a meat grinding accident last year. On the oil rig we had to work at high heights sometimes with the possibility of falling not to mention all of the people I knew that lost digits on the machinery...

...and you want to tell me that a flu shot quota makes your job conditions abusive? hahahahaha

Completely agree, xtsukiyox. I only wish that I could have grown up in his sheltered bubble where working as a pharmacist can even be considered to be "abusive working conditions." It's laughable and offensive.

I find these responses quite troubling. A flu shot quota and other metrics are nothing to laugh about. Every season pharmacy managers jobs are on the line, many times their goals are not realistically set by district as well. If these sometimes unattainable quotas are not met, write up after write up ensues--maybe abuse is too strong a word...

When you talk to pharmacists let go because of unattainable flu shot quotas and time metrics your tone would change. When you see families income cut off because of this sort of thing, your tone and attitude changes.

 

[Rph888]

Seriously? The future is whatever you decide to make it.

I'm nearly 30 and I'm getting ready to go back to school full time. After turning 18, I spent 6 years serving our country in the US Air Force before I got out and decided to pursue the American Dream. Shortly after buying my first house, the economy and housing market tanked. Fortunately for me, I was in the fail proof industry of Newspaper Advertising Sales......

However...it seems that I'm still employed...full time...in a well enough paying (different) job rather than being an unemployed ex-newspaper account exec who complains all day about the job market. And rather than accept the fact that the job I have is only "Good Enough" I decided to go back to school. And thanks to the GI Bill I earned, I will get a mostly free ride through Pharm School.

In 4 years, I'll still be relatively debt free, and a PharmD.....how did I accomplish all this?

Worked hard, stayed educated, and focused on my (realistic) goals

Life is whatever you make it. Stop b****ing and do something.

In this entire thread, I find this post to be the most concerning.
You see first hand the American Dream shattered twice in your own life--housing market and newspaper sales.
I believe pharmacy could be the third time. No joke.

You deserve better than pharmacy. I would say put all that hard work into a better return.

You could be very well giving up 4 years of your life to later fight tooth and nail for an underpaid residency or a part time job--this is already happening to qualified students who work hard!!

 

[DelawareStudent]

In this entire thread, I find this post to be the most concerning.
You see first hand the American Dream shattered twice in your own life--housing market and newspaper sales.
I believe pharmacy could be the third time. No joke.

You deserve better than pharmacy. I would say put all that hard work into a better return.

You could be very well giving up 4 years of your life to later fight tooth and nail for an underpaid residency or a part time job--this is already happening to qualified students who work hard!!

Meh. I'll land on my feet either way.

However, based on the sheer volume of posts you make to this forum that are basically rearranged versions of this, I think you need to spend more time figuring out your own future and less being concerned about mine and others.

 

[BenJammin]

I find these responses quite troubling. A flu shot quota and other metrics are nothing to laugh about. Every season pharmacy managers jobs are on the line, many times their goals are not realistically set by district as well. If these sometimes unattainable quotas are not met, write up after write up ensues--maybe abuse is too strong a word...

When you talk to pharmacists let go because of unattainable flu shot quotas and time metrics your tone would change. When you see families income cut off because of this sort of thing, your tone and attitude changes.

Oh wow, I'm so sorry you expect to have your performance unevaluated and unnoticed. I live in the real world...you know, the one where managers actually monitor how well we do our jobs. Pharmacy is still a business.

 

[DelawareStudent]

Oh wow, I'm so sorry you expect to have your performance unevaluated and unnoticed. I live in the real world...you know, the one where managers actually monitor how well we do our jobs. Pharmacy is still a business.

In RPh888's defense here, the issue many retail pharmacists are facing (based on what I read in industry mags and online) is OVERemphasis on metrics at the expense of patient care and interaction.

I imagine (hope) there is a logical balance between metrics and patient care but until that's found, it will likely be a prevalent (though doubtfully world ending) issue.

 

[guitargrl]

As a pharmacist/ medical-student, I am typically in the other sub-forums, but I happen to stumble upon this thread. So I'm going to give my 2 cents, since that's what forums are all about, as well as some professional knowledge, from experience. Right now the job market is bad everywhere, some places from what I hear, aren't as bad as say, the north-east. (I'm from the south). Many factors influence the job market, supply/demand etc, and right now jobs are very limited in retail, and I can tell you this, 85% of people who claim they want to do a residency, don't actually do it. Unfortunately the way the "system" is set up, you don't make any extra money doing a residency (your pay is actually less when you finish as opposed to retail), and that does NOT guarantee you a job. I have heard of 3 pharmacy directors at big hospitals that had residents for the ONLY reason of CHEAP labor. They had no intentions of hiring any of them after, so they were SOL when completion came. Since most of you on here are Pre-Pharms you have no real idea of what pharmacy is actually like. All of the glorifying of MTM, and helping patients and change the world and save lives is actually ALOT OF BS (even in the hospital). Very VERY few pharmacists work with patients directly on their medication and their outcomes, (ALL DO A RESIDENCY). Retail is a fast paced work environment and the fastest people with the best people skills do well, you can't stress or else it will eat you up alive, and the sad part about retail is another 80% of what you learn is USELESS there. I am in medical school, so I have no vested interest in any of you succeeding or getting a job or doing whatever you want to do. The job market is VERY tough, and a few of my colleagues in pharmacy school can only get part time right now. Loans are piling up, it is a scary thought. I am not trying to deter anyone from entering the field, it is all about numbers right now and from what I have read, there are WAY to many new schools opening, which is compounded by a lot of schools enlarging their class size to create a TON of new graduates. All of these graduates NEED jobs to pay back loans etc. It will be a fight to get a job especially when you guys graduate. I hope the best for all of you, when you apply to school look to your left and your right at interviews, all of those people will be fighting for your job too. Good Luck everyone, and good luck with the admissions process.

Golden Boy,
As a retail RPh (read "slave labor"), your words are spot on. Everyone, retail, hospital, mail order, LTC, wants the most work from the fewest people. And desperation lets them get away with it. Babies dying from overworked pharmacists...you bet. Now my ? to you is curiosity....what branch of medicine are you considering? From what I have learned, any RPh/PharmD/MD...DO's, would be wise to add computer informatics to their background. Do not count solely on those sheepskin diplomas. At least physicians should have chance at jobs...but I know personally the income is no guarantee for your 8+ years of work, unless you choose wisely or don't have $$ signs blinding you. We are all employees basically...with no true rights to decent working conditions. Welcome to the Brave New World.

 

[BenJammin]

Golden Boy,
As a retail RPh (read "slave labor"), your words are spot on. Everyone, retail, hospital, mail order, LTC, wants the most work from the fewest people. And desperation lets them get away with it. Babies dying from overworked pharmacists...you bet. Now my ? to you is curiosity....what branch of medicine are you considering? From what I have learned, any RPh/PharmD/MD...DO's, would be wise to add computer informatics to their background. Do not count solely on those sheepskin diplomas. At least physicians should have chance at jobs...but I know personally the income is no guarantee for your 8+ years of work, unless you choose wisely or don't have $$ signs blinding you. We are all employees basically...with no true rights to decent working conditions. Welcome to the Brave New World.

The comedy just keeps rolling in. The bolded statement implies that pharmacy needs a union, right? A pharmacy union would be a disaster for one reason: supply and demand. You $55/hr pharmacists can go ahead and threaten a strike for poor working conditions....there will be thousands of new grads like me willing to work for $45/hr just to take your job away from you.

 

[chemguy79]

Meh. I'll land on my feet either way.

However, based on the sheer volume of posts you make to this forum that are basically rearranged versions of this, I think you need to spend more time figuring out your own future and less being concerned about mine and others.

Agreed!

Every so often, a doom and gloomer comes onto the board to "keep it real" regarding the future of pharmacy. One common trend is that THEY don't have any problem finding a job, but a friend of a friend, second cousin once removed is having trouble finding a job. However, NOTHING is shared regarding said person's situation ... Do they want to work in a specific area? Do they have family commitments that make their job hunt more difficult? All of these intangibles are selectively removed and it becomes readily apparent to anyone with cognitive abilities that their "facts" are minimal at best.

Furthermore, since the doom and gloomer in question has had no problem finding a job, who are they to say that I won't follow in their benevolent footsteps? It seems that the people who are most wary of finding a job are those who have never had to find a job. Therefore, they feel hopelessly unprepared for said job hunting expedition. I say that it's an expedition because it takes work in almost EVERY field. If you foolishly expect to be given a job on a silver platter, regardless of your industry, you are living a delusional life and I would like to be passed some of the kool-aid so I can live in your fantasy world.

As for working in retail, we all have heard the horror stories. It's the nature of the beast and I wish that it wasn't that way. However, it comes with the territory in a service based industry. If you were unaware of that prior to starting the program, you should have studied the field prior to attending pharmacy school. I worked in an optometrist office for 5 years during undergrad and I experienced the same things on a daily basis. I had NUMEROUS patients complain about their wait, their insurance plan, how they were going to call corporate to get me fired because we didn't take their insurance, blah blah blah blah blah. When I first started working, I was shocked that people could be completely rude and hateful. However, after a few months, the complaints didn't faze me at all, I accepted that it was the nature of the industry.

Therefore, I believe you should do the same instead of coming onto a message board and kvetching about how horrible the career is ... OR you could try to change the industry from the inside instead of attempting to scare pre-pharmacy students about something that they are likely aware of given that they have experienced retail pharmacy themselves. Your lack of understanding regarding retail pharmacy and CONSTANT complaints about the field show possible ignorance on your part and I wish that you would have planned wisely before attending pharmacy school.

 

[xtsukiyox]

We are all employees basically...with no true rights to decent working conditions. Welcome to the Brave New World.

I agree with this sentiment. There are a lot of things broken in our system - undergrad education, student loans & financing, independent competition, healthcare reimbursement / insurance, entitlement programs... the list could go on.

It does sometimes scare me that I will be more or less indentured when I get out of school, until my loans are paid off. (OK, indentured is slightly too strong of a word in historical context.) The problem is, the way the system is engineered, my peers will be too scared to lose their jobs to make any waves. And without waves, there is no headway for the profession. This is exactly how big corporations want it.

Does this mean we need a union? I don't feel it's a direct corrollary. Big corporations have ways of dealing with unions, too. I don't have any good solutions, or I'd be out there stumping for them.

 

[bw6]

I agree with this sentiment. There are a lot of things broken in our system - undergrad education, student loans & financing, independent competition, healthcare reimbursement / insurance, entitlement programs... the list could go on.

It does sometimes scare me that I will be more or less indentured when I get out of school, until my loans are paid off. (OK, indentured is slightly too strong of a word in historical context.) The problem is, the way the system is engineered, my peers will be too scared to lose their jobs to make any waves. And without waves, there is no headway for the profession. This is exactly how big corporations want it.

Does this mean we need a union? I don't feel it's a direct corrollary. Big corporations have ways of dealing with unions, too. I don't have any good solutions, or I'd be out there stumping for them.

 

[BenJammin]

I agree with this sentiment. There are a lot of things broken in our system - undergrad education, student loans & financing, independent competition, healthcare reimbursement / insurance, entitlement programs... the list could go on.

It does sometimes scare me that I will be more or less indentured when I get out of school, until my loans are paid off. (OK, indentured is slightly too strong of a word in historical context.) The problem is, the way the system is engineered, my peers will be too scared to lose their jobs to make any waves. And without waves, there is no headway for the profession. This is exactly how big corporations want it.

Does this mean we need a union? I don't feel it's a direct corrollary. Big corporations have ways of dealing with unions, too. I don't have any good solutions, or I'd be out there stumping for them.

You can't have a union in a high supply occupation. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[xtsukiyox]

You can't have a union in a high supply occupation. It doesn't make any sense.

Grocery store cashiers have a union here. Pretty sure they're not in short supply. Not saying it makes sense.

PS, just to point out - any professional degree is going to put you into debt on a similar scale. That's the particularly sad thing about this form of loan slavery - it's designed to put the most educated, most motivated folks into the system.

 

[DelawareStudent]

PS, just to point out - any professional degree is going to put you into debt on a similar scale. That's the particularly sad thing about this form of loan slavery - it's designed to put the most educated, most motivated folks into the system.

Well....noone is requiring you to take these loans or pursue this degree. FAFSA allows folks who could otherwise never afford an education to get one. Yes you are indebted afterwards, but again there is no requirement to do this - and noone should be expecting to get anything for free.

If you really want to to avoid the loans, go serve 4 years in the US military. They'll be happy to get you a free ride.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Well....noone is requiring you to take these loans or pursue this degree. FAFSA allows folks who could otherwise never afford an education to get one. Yes you are indebted afterwards, but again there is no requirement to do this - and noone should be expecting to get anything for free.

I never said anyone was requiring it, nor that anyone should get anything for free, just remarking on the way the system is set up. Any good life requires work, this one also requires money diversion.

Exception to the "free" thing: K-12 teachers. Man, I think those folks should get trained au gratis for the abuse kids put them through. Hazard pay or something.

If you really want to to avoid the loans, go serve 4 years in the US military. They'll be happy to get you a free ride.

Freedom isn't free.

 

[owlegrad]

Um, plenty of low/no skill jobs have unions. It has nothing to do with supply. How are assembly line workers in short supply? They aren't, obviously, but they have a union.

I am not advocating for unions though, just an observation.

 

[BenJammin]

Grocery store cashiers have a union here. Pretty sure they're not in short supply. Not saying it makes sense.

PS, just to point out - any professional degree is going to put you into debt on a similar scale. That's the particularly sad thing about this form of loan slavery - it's designed to put the most educated, most motivated folks into the system.

But most grocery store cashiers are paid minimum wage, not $50 an hour haha

 

[owlegrad]

But most grocery store cashiers are paid minimum wage, not $50 an hour haha

Then they have a terrible union!

I used to be a grocery store cashier, made a tiny bit above minimum wage, no union though.

 

[DelawareStudent]

Then they have a terrible union!

I used to be a grocery store cashier, made a tiny bit above minimum wage, no union though.

As I recall from my days as a grocery store bagger, the cashiers made a couple bucks more an hour than we did. I think we did have a union, but membership was optional.

 

[romylove]

As I recall from my days as a grocery store bagger, the cashiers made a couple bucks more an hour than we did. I think we did have a union, but membership was optional.

Here in Texas, I made minimum wage as a bagger and $1 more as a cashier. I didn't join the union though.

 

[DelawareStudent]

I find these responses quite troubling. A flu shot quota and other metrics are nothing to laugh about. Every season pharmacy managers jobs are on the line, many times their goals are not realistically set by district as well. If these sometimes unattainable quotas are not met, write up after write up ensues--maybe abuse is too strong a word..

....looks like the only trouble this guy is having is calculating his bonus...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=891783

 

[BenJammin]

Then they have a terrible union!

I used to be a grocery store cashier, made a tiny bit above minimum wage, no union though.

I know! My state wasn't right-to-work at the time so the grocery store said either join the union or get fired. Nothing more than a scam and a way to make a bunch of "union leaders" a bit richer.

 

[xtsukiyox]

But most grocery store cashiers are paid minimum wage, not $50 an hour haha

I don't know, at the stores that hire union workers here, the career cashiers can get paid more than the career pharm techs... And the pharm techs don't get paid peanuts, they just don't get raises like the cashiers do.

 

[KARM12]

....looks like the only trouble this guy is having is calculating his bonus...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=891783

That isn't a bonus, that is the profit sharing...

 

[DelawareStudent]

That isn't a bonus, that is the profit sharing...

Sorry, didn't realize this was a battle of semantics.

 

[THE MTL]

I'm actually kind of concerned now. It's not so much about getting a job but the hours that I want. Alot of new grads been getting only 24-32 hrs as a pharmacist and I need that guarantee of 40 hrs per week. I got too much loans to be messing around.

Im actually strongly considering the army.

 

[docss26]

From all of your experiences, how do you weight the importance of networking and professional organizations in looking for a job?

 

[Avrelian]

We definitely need a stronger union. AMA is one of the best, if not the best, union in the world.

Well obviously it is. Waaay better half of your health insurance premium is a result of it's work, who wouldn't want the same deal in his profession.

 

[iBeast]

I'm actually kind of concerned now. It's not so much about getting a job but the hours that I want. Alot of new grads been getting only 24-32 hrs as a pharmacist and I need that guarantee of 40 hrs per week. I got too much loans to be messing around.

Im actually strongly considering the army.

So after Pharmacy school, you're joining the army?

 

[DelawareStudent]

So after Pharmacy school, you're joining the army?

With a degree in pharmacy he can go into the Army, or other military branch, as a military pharmacist.

Even if there are no positions available, he could still sign up as a regular commissioned officer. He can consolidate most of his loans into a single lower interest rate loan. Depending on incentives being offered, he may be able to get some his student debt forgiven (though I'm really not sure on this part)

Regardless, go Air Force. You'll thank me when you realize you get 5 star hotel accommodations while your army counterparts are getting military cots and no A/C.

 

[fattunesy]

I'm actually kind of concerned now. It's not so much about getting a job but the hours that I want. Alot of new grads been getting only 24-32 hrs as a pharmacist and I need that guarantee of 40 hrs per week. I got too much loans to be messing around.

I wanted to reply to this one because I think the 24-32 hours statement is missing the crucial part of what makes it so difficult. Some people look at that and go "Sure, I will work 3 days a week, why not?" The trouble is, which three days. You are making the assumption those days are set. For new grads in saturated areas you will float and you will not have any clue when your schedule will be. I am in hospital practice but my wife works for one of the major chains. The thing that kills her with her schedule is not knowing. She can't plan anything. Doctor's appointment? Too bad, cancel it, they need you to work somewhere. Don't want to do the shift? Well too bad you aren't getting another and you might not even get scheduled next time. She knows ~5 out of 10 days per pay period, the rest are float days that can be scheduled anytime. Typically the scheduler gives them about 1 to 2 weeks advance notice of most shifts, but there are usually a couple open days that might be shifts, or they might be surprise days off. It is a harder life than you think until you try to do it. This is what almost all new grads in saturated areas are doing, if they even have a spot. Walgreen's layoffs supposedly happening ~ March 21st or 23rd won't help things either.

I love what I do, and enjoy the pharmacy profession...but I wouldn't recommend anyone go into this unless they can get out with less than 100k in loans.

 

[358265]

I wanted to reply to this one because I think the 24-32 hours statement is missing the crucial part of what makes it so difficult. Some people look at that and go "Sure, I will work 3 days a week, why not?" The trouble is, which three days. You are making the assumption those days are set. For new grads in saturated areas you will float and you will not have any clue when your schedule will be. I am in hospital practice but my wife works for one of the major chains. The thing that kills her with her schedule is not knowing. She can't plan anything. Doctor's appointment? Too bad, cancel it, they need you to work somewhere. Don't want to do the shift? Well too bad you aren't getting another and you might not even get scheduled next time. She knows ~5 out of 10 days per pay period, the rest are float days that can be scheduled anytime. Typically the scheduler gives them about 1 to 2 weeks advance notice of most shifts, but there are usually a couple open days that might be shifts, or they might be surprise days off. It is a harder life than you think until you try to do it. This is what almost all new grads in saturated areas are doing, if they even have a spot. Walgreen's layoffs supposedly happening ~ March 21st or 23rd won't help things either.

I love what I do, and enjoy the pharmacy profession...but I wouldn't recommend anyone go into this unless they can get out with less than 100k in loans.

It appears from the majority of new graduates, this is very common. I, too, wish the profession was not heading towards this way.

 

[PharmBoy90]

I'm currently going to a school that offers a PA program, and was thinking of making the switch to pharmacy instead (which was my original plan 4 years ago). I guess I should stay on the PA track...