Are B's the new A's in medical school?

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Uafl112

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I had 2 med student friends tell me that I should get use to the fact that I wont be making A's on my med school exams as consistently as I use to in undergrad. They told me that "B's are the new A's." Can anyone relate? How would you guys describe the effort necessary to maintain an A average?

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It's going to vary by school. Some schools the class average is an A; here at KCU-COM we usually have a curve that rounds the class average to an 85% B, so at our school (which has a lot of high quality students, not to brag.. but srsly) a B is very much the new A. You have a coin toss of being in the lower half of your class, so you need to prepare yourself for that possibility - everyone going into MS1 believes they are genius level and will excel above their peers like they did in undergrad, but again, half of those people will be in the bottom 50%.
 
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It's too different between schools and that's why class rank is a better metric. The distinction between an A or B is arbitrary. For what it's worth, the top 10 kids in my class are extremely close to a 4.0 with a couple 4.0 semesters at least so it's very much possible within the grading scheme at my school. The top 25% getting way more As than Bs (n=1). However, this could be completely different at another school and why it is all relative. This is also why it's not a it's a highly weighted metric used by residency PDs.
 
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You are shocked that med school will be harder?
 
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Yep -- 4.0 in undergrad and had a 74 on my first exam in med school -- it sucked from there on in.... actually had people crying in the lecture hall when they failed the first quiz of first year with 0/5 questions right.... Expect to lose about 10% of your class that first year, some due to personal issues, others can't effectively make the transition; We lost one at year 2 after they failed the Comlex twice....
 
Some school averages are like 82% (e.g. my school). 1/3 gets Cs regularly, and in the first semester of MS1 the semester average was actually ~80%, so half the people had Cs. It varies by school though. For example, even with an average of 82%, 2/3 of the class is between 78% and 86%, and the rest are split at the other ends (1/6 >86%, 1/6 <78%).

This is all meaningless though. Look at class rank. Top quartile = great, bottom quartile = bad, middle 50 is meaningless.
 
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There is a reason many medical schools do pass/fail. (however you will still have a class rank)
 
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From my understanding...grades and rank don't matter and they only care about board scores and letters of rec?
 
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You are shocked that med school will be harder?
I wasnt, but for some reason I had this assumption that keeping an A average was rather doable
 
Yep -- 4.0 in undergrad and had a 74 on my first exam in med school -- it sucked from there on in.... actually had people crying in the lecture hall when they failed the first quiz of first year with 0/5 questions right.... Expect to lose about 10% of your class that first year, some due to personal issues, others can't effectively make the transition; We lost one at year 2 after they failed the Comlex twice....
Christ.
 
Well thank you all for the responses. Im glad I found this out now rather than later. Perhaps I can prepare myself a bit better now
 
Average at my school is around 82 most exams (science courses). However, I believe there are more students at the top end getting 95+ and plenty getting 70's on the tail end, so the average isn't indicative of the mode.
 
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KCOM runs their GPA based off percentage and credits for each course. If your GPA is 90% or higher, you're sitting in the top 15% of my class. 88.5% and you're top 20%. It gets more and more bunched together as you go, but I'd say average is usually around 81-83%. As was noted, how each school does their grading is really going to vary and class placement says more about how you're doing than your GPA. (not saying it matters, only that it is more indicative)
 
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DBs are the new As.
 
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Is it COCA policy to have lettered grades? I notice most DO schools are letter grades instead of p/f. This is really detrimental in my opinion.
 
Our exams come with comprehensive reports on the mean, standard deviation, and mode of the class in addition to our scores. Overall, most exams seem to land in the 80-86% range with a SD of 3-4%. So yeah, Bs are what most of these formerly A kids are getting, myself included. Though class rank isn't reported in our Dean's letters, so the grades don't matter, they're just given to show you where you need improvement and how well you are doing relative to your peers.
 
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MD school here: With curve it's usually 78-83% (no curve 73-80%). My school uses NBME exams... Be prepare because you probably won't be the smartest kid on the block anymore.

For lab exams that are not NBME average is usually in the 85-90% with curve.
 
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Our exams come with comprehensive reports on the mean, standard deviation, and mode of the class in addition to our scores. Overall, most exams seem to land in the 80-86% range with a SD of 3-4%. So yeah, Bs are what most of these formerly A kids are getting, myself included. Though class rank isn't reported in our Dean's letters, so the grades don't matter, they're just given to show you where you need improvement and how well you are doing relative to your peers.
Are you 100% sure about that?
 
Are you 100% sure about that?

Different schools, plus you have AOA when we have SSP. Many ACGME PDs don't even know what SSP is. Hence, class rank matters less to students who apply solely to allopathic programs.
 
Different schools, plus you have AOA when we have SSP. Many ACGME PDs don't even know what SSP is. Hence, class rank matters less to students who apply solely to allopathic programs.


That is a good thing! Many (or most) in my class don't care if they got 95 or 98 etc... on an exam. They only care where the rank, and my school rank us on every single exam. I think that has somewhat created an unfriendly atmosphere when it comes to cooperation among students...
 
That is a good thing! Many (or most) in my class don't care if they got 95 or 98 etc... on an exam. They only care where the rank, and my school rank us on every single exam. I think that has somewhat created an unfriendly atmosphere when it comes to cooperation among students...

Well, that is something that sucks; but personally, I think it is a security and maturity thing. If you can retain and apply 85% of the material, then I think as docs you should be in relatively good standing. There will ultimately be a curve of forgetting--especially as people move into their particular areas of practice. Some healthy competition is OK, if people don't put too much ultimate value on it and stay humble and know who they are as people.
 
Well, that is something that sucks; but personally, I think it is a security and maturity thing. If you can retain and apply 85% of the material, then I think as docs you should be in relatively good standing. There will ultimately be a curve of forgetting--especially as people move into their particular areas of practice. Some healthy competition is OK, if people don't put too much ultimate value on it and stay humble and know who they are as people.
You can have healthy competition without a class rank. It's just a much friendlier, lower stress sort of competition.
 
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For those of you that went from A's to B's, are you studying the same amount as in ug and now getting Bs or are you studying significantly more and getting lower grades than ug?
 
For those of you that went from A's to B's, are you studying the same amount as in ug and now getting Bs or are you studying significantly more and getting lower grades than ug?
Waaaaay more
 
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For those of you that went from A's to B's, are you studying the same amount as in ug and now getting Bs or are you studying significantly more and getting lower grades than ug?

I'm studying the same amount.
 
Totally can't imagine it to be less--only much more.
 
Class rank seems to matter very little, if at all, compared to board scores. Case in point- Noshie stated that she was in the bottom 3 of her class. She still received over 20 ACGME EM interviews.
 
Go look up "bell shaped curve"

At our school, maybe 10% of the students get A's, 70% get B's, and ~20% get C's. Those that fail are dismissed, or repeat the year.

I had 2 med student friends tell me that I should get use to the fact that I wont be making A's on my med school exams as consistently as I use to in undergrad. They told me that "B's are the new A's." Can anyone relate? How would you guys describe the effort necessary to maintain an A average?
 
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For those of you that went from A's to B's, are you studying the same amount as in ug and now getting Bs or are you studying significantly more and getting lower grades than ug?
A yisss. Bs. Mutha. Funny. Bs. ((Waggle Stomps))
 
Yep -- 4.0 in undergrad and had a 74 on my first exam in med school -- it sucked from there on in.... actually had people crying in the lecture hall when they failed the first quiz of first year with 0/5 questions right.... Expect to lose about 10% of your class that first year, some due to personal issues, others can't effectively make the transition; We lost one at year 2 after they failed the Comlex twice....
10% errr where? Is this the Caribbean?
 
Some people just aren't ready. We had one that smoked biochem, had a 32+ on the MCAT, 3.9x from a good school and left after neuro. He quickly learned in MSS that he had difficulty differentiating a nerve from a vein and supposedly almost failed. He hit neuro and did not improve so he quit. Had one that didn't survive the first week -- after the "brief review of medically significant chemistry/organic chemistry" which was done in 2 hours, she went to the administration over lunch and quit. But remember, the vast majority pass and graduate. You may not graduate at the top of the class, you may have to pull strings, do a boatload of audition rotations in your desired area and have a serious "come to Jesus" moment regarding your ability to get into the specialty of choice, but most people will graduate if they just don't quit and adopt the mindset of "I will do whatever it takes to graduate". For me, once I started, I told myself that I would either graduate or get carried out feet first but I would not quit.....
 
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In undergrad, I would have been sad to get a B and devastated to get a C. In med school, I study at least twice as much (way more than that on pre-exam week to be honest) and I'm thrilled with Bs and pretty damn happy with Cs. Different ball game.
 
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Was that when Dr. Dubin was there?

What made it so hard?

I think it has something to do with admission standards back in the day. Even top schools like KCUMB had average MCAT matriculant scores of 24 during that time (found a post of 2004 averages of DO schools a while back). So I would assume pass rates were lower back then due to the crop of students selected. Well, I'm making a guess here.
 
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Go look up "bell shaped curve"

At our school, maybe 10% of the students get A's, 70% get B's, and ~20% get C's. Those that fail are dismissed, or repeat the year.
Yep -- 4.0 in undergrad and had a 74 on my first exam in med school -- it sucked from there on in.... actually had people crying in the lecture hall when they failed the first quiz of first year with 0/5 questions right.... Expect to lose about 10% of your class that first year, some due to personal issues, others can't effectively make the transition; We lost one at year 2 after they failed the Comlex twice....
Some people just aren't ready. We had one that smoked biochem, had a 32+ on the MCAT, 3.9x from a good school and left after neuro. He quickly learned in MSS that he had difficulty differentiating a nerve from a vein and supposedly almost failed. He hit neuro and did not improve so he quit. Had one that didn't survive the first week -- after the "brief review of medically significant chemistry/organic chemistry" which was done in 2 hours, she went to the administration over lunch and quit. But remember, the vast majority pass and graduate. You may not graduate at the top of the class, you may have to pull strings, do a boatload of audition rotations in your desired area and have a serious "come to Jesus" moment regarding your ability to get into the specialty of choice, but most people will graduate if they just don't quit and adopt the mindset of "I will do whatever it takes to graduate". For me, once I started, I told myself that I would either graduate or get carried out feet first but I would not quit.....
You guys sure know how to give a soon-to-be first year medical student a panic attack. :eek::help:
 
He quickly learned in MSS that he had difficulty differentiating a nerve from a vein and supposedly almost failed.
After a disastrous start, I went and got an eye exam, took me getting bifocals for my lab grade to go up.

10% errr where? Is this the Caribbean?
We're at 14 percent right now. We had everything from an acceptance to Pharmacy school to the usual academic failures.

One of our professors told us "study for perfection, accept anything above passing", I'll gladly take a C and damn near dance in the aisle for a B.
 
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I'm studying the same amount.

<bow> Studied every waking moment in my SMP and MS1 (I'm told) is harder (let you know come August). I only knew one person who made the volume look easy and I'm sure he spent hours too. Congrats I'm jealous.
 
You guys sure know how to give a soon-to-be first year medical student a panic attack. :eek::help:
They're exaggerating. There have been stretches in first year where I went out for a week in a row and was fine. For more than half the year I was taking a bi-weekly road trip of 7 hours on the weekend and didn't study. For one block I put in <1 hour a day including lecture time. You'll have plenty of time, passing is easy. :thumbup:
 
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<bow> Studied every waking moment in my SMP and MS1 (I'm told) is harder (let you know come August). I only knew one person who made the volume look easy and I'm sure he spent hours too. Congrats I'm jealous.

Ha! Don't be. It's not harder per se it's just volume in a shorter amount of time. If you have the background it's reviewing the material to answer board style questions. I probably do 2ish hours a night and 4ish on each weekend day.
Exam week/weekend I'll double those times.
 
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