Are dentists really stupid in the States?

[kidflip]

Hey I noticed that in the US alot of people gain acceptance with 3.0 GPA's and even less. 3.5 is considered stellar. This is baffling


In Canada a 3.7-3.8 is needed just to get an interview. I suppose the dentists in the US are pretty stupid relatively speaking. I would personally be scared to get treatment in the US with dentists possessing such low qualifications.

Despite these bottom of the barrel scores needed to get into Dental school, there are still some people who can't even score a measley 3.1-3.5. What is going on down there?

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[ddstothecor]

Blubber blubber blubber. What dude?

Hey, pass that bong over here man. Whoa, far out--look at the way this carpet grows. It never needs to be cut, how do they do that man with some kind of growth inhibitor? That's a trip.

 

[aphistis]

Dear Rhodes Scholar,

Thanks for your input on our dental selection processes.

I know I speak for most of my colleagues when I say we appreciate being informed of our stupidity by someone as enlightened as yourself.

Remarkably, despite the obviously dismal qualifications every single dentist in the States possess, it's been demonstrated in multiple studies that a great many Americans still, in fact, possess healthy teeth in their mouths. Experts everywhere are still scrambling to explain the phenomenon.

Rest assured that diligent efforts to have a National Dental School Approval cabinet department are in place, and should the bill ever pass into law, your name will be first on the list to head it up.

In the meantime, though, how about you not waste everyone's time with groundless attacks on the dental education process in a country you appear to know virtually nothing about?

 

[ToothDoctor]

lol...great replies to an ignorant post! Since when is anyone with a 3.0 gpa considered "stupid"?

 

[DeltronZ]

WHEEEE!!!!!! this thread is going to stay open for 10 seconds.

great contribution d00d, if you are so smart how come you are waitlisted everywhere.

 

[dentalvibe8881]

First of all, the Canadian educational system is completely different than ours. We have some obscure conversion factors to evaluate your grading scale. We have no idea what 3.8 GPA in Canada means. For all we know it could mean a 3.3 here. Why do you think most U.S. dental schools don't accept the Canadian DAT? If Canada was all that, you would think most schools would happily accept your verion of the DAT but they don't. It makes you wonder.

 

[Firm]

You forgot to figure in the canadian exchange rate. A 3.5 here is like having a 4.0 up there. Thanks for playing.

 

[new york blows]

If Canada is so great, then stay there.

since when do we need a smart dentist anyways, we just need the ones with HAND SKILLS

i don't care if you have 220 IQ, if you got no hand skills, stay away from my mouth.

 

[busupshot83]

This is the final word: I was born in Toronto, Canada, and school up there is easy. E - A - S - Y. Very easy. 8th grade there, is like 5th grade here. I don't know if it was just my school, but hey... someone's gotta do it!

 

[Pre-Dent-David]

Trolls are welcome here so I bet that the maker of the thread will not even be warned. However, everyone who replied to the thread will be chastised. It makes sense I think.

 

[Yah-E]

I admitted that I had a low GPA (thanks to all the admissions committed members that voted me in at various dental schools), but I bet my BAC (blood alcohol concentration) is much higher than you 3.8 GPA "super intelligent" Canadians!

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

I knew people in undergrad that just didn't apply themselves then killed the DAT or MCAT. There are so many other factors to consider when going to professional school.

 

[LestatZinnie]

GPA scale is the same for both Canada and USA. So a 3.8 in Canada is a 3.8 in USA. It's funny how some people talk about hand skill in the admission process since in US, there is no such test for your dexterity whereas in the Canadian DAT there is a soap carving component to test how well you work with your hands. US DAT is NOT ACCEPTABLE in Canada. So I wonder how US admission committees know you have 'good hands'?? Anyway, not trying to flame, just stating the facts. Personally, I do believe that private US schools are a joke to get into. I know many Canadians who apply to them as back up and none of them was refused. We joke that basically if you pay, you'll get in. Public schools, however, are another matter. The competition there I believe is on par with Canadian schools (no private schools in Canada, btw). Generalization is dangerous- there some very prestigious and ivy league schools in US that people from all over the world are dying to get into. However, in terms of entrance into private dental schools, it's a walk in the park for most people I know.

 

[Mymy]

Wow! I wasn't registered before but I decided to register after reading this thread.

What's with the country bashing? You guys know that who ever wrote that was probably just trying to get a rise out of you.

I was also born in Canada and still live in Canada, go to university in Canada etc. Dental schools up here are hard to get into but I think that's just because there are so few spots available/so few universities so most of the people who end up getting in are those with the highest marks.

 

[DrRob]

I did undergrad in Canada and Dental School in the US. I thought my undergrad science courses were more difficult, but I had a good education in the US. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a dentist but you have to be a good problem solver. This BS about good handskills is exactly that BS. You need to be competent, and really that is not all that hard and with practice and experience in handling materials you just get better.

Canadian dental schools are probably equal to American dental schools and in fact it is much more difficult to get a US dental license that a Canadian one. My partner went to Detroit and transferred to Mcgill and tells me that detroit was far superior in preclinical training than Mcgill, but Mcgill was more into medical aspects of the dental education.

 

[badaboom]

it's undeniable that canadian applicants have much higher GPA than those of US. but maybe GPA is not the only thing u r looking for out of an applicant?
sure hope u don't represent candian student... it's a real arrogant remark u made.

 

[dentalvibe8881]

There are plenty of U.S. applicants with a 3.8 GPA. If US dental schools wanted to accept only those applicants, they could easily do so and skew our numbers. But they know that people like Yah-E exist. People who are qualified but partied in their early years. A classmate and friend in my program has a perfect 4.0 undergrad GPA as a biology major no less. He averaged a 19 on the DAT. He only got accepted to one school. He had poor interviewing skills. He was a nerd. He got rejected by 20 other schools. He would have probably gotten in to any Canadien school because of his numbers. Therefore, U.S. schools look at the entire applicant as opposed to strictly an applicant's numbers. I do know that U.S. schools weigh the DAT very heavily. And they are known to reject candidates with high GPA's and low DAT's. This is probably one reason why U.S. schools mandate that most Canadien applicants take the U.S. DAT because I have heard the Canadien version is easier. And I don't think soap carving is a very good indicator of dental skills. Are you kidding me?

 

[LestatZinnie]

Sorry it is not true that American DAT is easier. I should know because I took both. They are of same difficulty. Difference is that American DAT has organic chem while Canadian DAT has soap carving. It's also a pain to take Canadian DAT because it's only offered twice per year, while American DAT you can take anytime you want. Contrary to what you said, Canadian DAT is accepted at most American Schools while only 1 Canadian school accepts American DAT. thanks

 

[DrJeff]

Let's see, 3.8 Canadian GPA, throw in the Canadian/US exchange rate and we've got a 1.71 (atleast based on the 45% rate that the ad for Montreal Tourism thats in the magazine I'm reading)
Seriously though, one of my best friends from dental school, and someone who I respect tremendously not only as a person, but also as a friend is a proud Canadian, as is one of my favorite prosth professors when I was in school. Comw to think of it, I'm going to e-mail them this link to get a laugh out of them!

 

[monkeyfist529]

Yo - when we assimilate Canada as our 51st state next month, GPAs, DATs, SARS, and all rest of the mindless feces that canucks love to flame out about won't really matter anyway - eh.

Love, M

ps. USA #1

 

[dentalvibe8881]

THere are far more U.S. schools than Canadien schools so it really doesn't mean anything if some U.S. schools accept the Canadien DAT while only one Canadien school accepts the U.S. version. And organic chemistry is not something to ignore. It happens to be the most difficult science section on the DAT for many people. It's not like it's the math section. Furthermore, I do know a lot about the Canadien undergrad system. At many schools your grade is based on two exams for each section, a midterm and a final. You don't get exams every week or every other week like in U.S. schools. I know many people myself included would have preferred that system instead of being crammed with exams each week. Procastinators would love your system.

Anyway, I don't think the U.S. system is better nor do I think the Canadien system is better. Both systems have strengths and weaknesses. It's just that if a U.S. guy boasted that the U.S. system is better, I'm sure many Canadiens could chime in and adequately defend their system. Likewise, I'm just indicating that the Canadien system is not perfect.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Everybody is jumping all over the fact that the US and Canada have a slightly different grading scale, but I take more insult at the actual argument that the OP presented.

How many people with a 3.0 actually get into dental school? Where are the stats on this to back up the argument? Sure, we've all heard of people with GPAs in that range getting admitted, but the actual percentage who gain acceptance with marks like that is quite low.

Several schools had NO problem denying me (3.47 GPA and excellent DAT scores)!

 

[DMX9911]

Wow, look at all these replies made to a Canadian post.

Looks like it made you all very uneasy and defensive. It is true that the required GPA is much higher in Canada than the US....thus the reason for all those Canadian applicants at US schools (like me).

I garnered 4 acceptances in the states, but not even one in Canada....so from my standpoint, it is easier to gain acceptance into American schools....especially the private schools.

TO all you guys bashing the Canadian grading system and believing they only accept 3.8 gpa (Dentalvibe)...At Western they only look at your two best years, so you can party for 2 years before studying hard and they won't hold it against you. After that though, you're on your one. And a 3.8 is what is needed.

By the way, all the schools I applied to accepted the Canadian DAT, so I don't know why u (DentalVIbe again) think that they require an applicant to take the US DAT.

Its CandiAn by the way....unles ur from Quebec.

 

[LestatZinnie]

thanks for your post DMX. many people I know share your experience. i hope you good luck at Canadian school next time if you decide to stay.

anyone know if people get in med school in US with such low GPAs as well? or is it particular to dental schools due to the plethora of private institutions?

 

[mcataz]

There are 10 Canadian dental schools. There are 56 U.S. dental schools. That alone explains the GPA difference. Of course you would have to boast higher credentials to get accepted into a Canadian school since there are only 10 of them in existence. I'm suprised no one bothered to bring up this simple yet obvious fact There are 5 times as many U.S. schools as Canadian schools. Ay, that might have something to do with it Ay!

If there were only 10 U.S. dental schools, you can be assured that the average GPA would be around the 3.8 mark. And if there were 56 Canadian schools, you could be assured that many Canadian students with low GPA's would get accepted.

And I wouldn't feel any safer seeing a dentist in Canada since many Canadian residents with low GPA's attend U.S. schools because they couldn't get into their own. So dentists are as dumb in Canada as they are here.

 

[logistical99]

The original poster is right and isn't pulling any punches.

There are many US dental applicants applying with ridiculous gpas, like around a 2.7 - 3.0 , and many of them actually make it in.

Now, I'm not saying a 2.7-3.0 gpa is bad; they are satisfactory grades and are passing. But, coupled with modern grade inflation and increasing competitiveness, it is difficult to find a decent job anywhere with a 3.0 gpa, especially in this economy. A 3.0 no longer cuts it for anything these days; there are just far too much 3.5-ers.

But that same 3.0 can often be sufficient for dental admissions. So in terms of qualifications and competitiveness, dental schools carry little prestige.

 

[mcataz]

logistical wrote

The original poster is right and isn't pulling any punches.

There are many US dental applicants applying with ridiculous gpas, like around a 2.7 - 3.0 , and many of them actually make it in.

And there are many Canadian dental applicants applying with 2.7-3.0 GPA's that make it into our schools as well. And besides, GPA doesn't make or break someone. Many people with low GPA's finish at the top of the dental school class. You insinuation that schools are ridiculous for admitting students with low GPA is preposterous at best.

As far as GPA and prestige, PA school and Veterinarian school are more difficult to gain acceptance than many medical schools yet they carry less prestige. Presitige has more to do with power than it does with admissions requirements. Physicians have prestige because their cases often involve life and death situations, a harsher lifestyle and historical relevance. Maybe some Canadian dental school is more difficult to get into than Harvard. However, no one would argue that any Canadian school carries more prestige than Harvard dental school.

 

[DeltronZ]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63855

Being afraid of getting a physical carries little prestige

 

[zazzookode]

Typical inferior Canadian argument. You have 10 schools in Canada, and all of them are public. Hell, public schools are hard enough to get into in the U.S. even with there being three times as many public schools as their Canadian counterparts. Now imagine, if there were only 10 public dental schools in the entire United States. The average GPA would probably be a 3.95. Canadian dental schools aren't stupid. They accept only the brightest because they know all of their dimwits will apply to U.S. private schools and get in. And even their dimwits can't beat out our dimwits for our private schools most of the time so they end up filling up our podiatry schools. Someone has to, it might as well be residents of our 51st state.

 

[DesiDentist]

HERE IN THE STATES AN 80% IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO A 3.7, IT IS A 3.0 NOR DO WE HAVE A++ WHICH YOU CHEATERS PUT DOWN AS 4.3.

IF YOU THINK WE ARE STUPID THEN STAY IN CANADA.

DesiDentist

 

[redicon1]

just a thought:

1. The lower end of GPA scale is due to fact that state schools are generally bound by the state laws to admit as many in-state applicants as possible. So even if the most qulaified applicants have 3.5+, the avg. drops due to the in-state applicants who MAY have lower GPA as a group.

2. US is the most efficient bastion of capitalism. The pvt. schools here want to churn out dentists and they have an experience in picking out applicants who will make it and also fill up the schools coffers in tution. So they are not too hung up about GPA's.

All students irrespective of their undergrad GPA take the same licencing exam. And as far as I am concerned, once you are certified competent and have a lkicence, the free market will judge your abillities, not the undergrad GPA.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'm a dental student at a Canadian School. I can assure you this isn't representative of our attitude toward US schools.

With regards to assimilating Canada as your 51st state, good luck getting past our mounty, and I suggest staying clear of Quebec.

 

[Brand]

I noticed something. The original poster has stated in posts that he/she has a GPA of 3.84. In another post I read that he/she has an 86% average. An 86% in the US is a 3.0. Beats me how they do GPA calculations in Canada, but it is obviously different.

 

[Yah-E]

What's up Brand:

Actually 86% is roughly 3.4/4.0 scale. A 3.0/4.0 is roughly 83%.

In US grading system:

< 0.6/4.0 = F
0.6/4.0 = D- (60%)
1.0/4.0 = D
1.3/4.0 = D+
1.6/4.0 = C- (70%)
2.0/4.0 = C
2.3/4.0 = C+
2.6/4.0 = B- (80%)
3.0/4.0 = B
3.3/4.0 = B+
3.6/4.0 = A- (90%)
4.0/4.0 = A

I see what you're trying to say....if the original poster has a 86% cumulative GPA, then that does not equal a 3.84 GPA. It's more like a 3.40 GPA!

 

[Supernumerary]

Mcataz has it figured out. Canadian schools do not meet demand for Canadian dentists. They must rely on US schools to meet the demand. If Canada had to build more schools to meet its own demands (as we do in the U.S), the stats would go down significantly.

This same situation happens in the U.S with medical schools. The U.S. demand for physicians is not met entirely with U.S. MD schools. A significant portion of US doctors are trained in DO and foreign schools. If the US had to meet the national demand for physicians with only U.S. trained MDs, we would see the stats for med school drop as well.

Anyhow it's not like any of this really matters. Chances are that if you make it into a professional school, you're not a blathering idiot - maybe you're even kinda smart. The OP just needed an ego boost, and maybe we shoulda let him have it.

 

[LestatZinnie]

With regards to the GPA thing. I have 85% average from Canadian school and when I applied to US schools ADDAS (sp?) calculates my GPA to be 3.85.

 

[DMX9911]

Just wondering what the class averages are for your schools in the States? Are they around 80%?

Here in Canada, profs usually aim for a low 70%, which equals a B. Maybe this is the cause for the 10% difference in gpa conversion...cause an 85 is pretty hard to get here and anything over 90 is nearly impossible.

Also, a fail is 49% here, so its possible to receive a grade 10% lower that you could ever get in the States (based on 59% = fail)

 

[PENN Diddy]

kidflip,

are you still out there? arent you gonna defend our 51st state?

 

[DcS]

The original argument is wrong in another way; it makes assumptions about people's intelligence based on a numerical value in the GPA. Trust me, I know plenty of people with 3.9s who are complete *****s, while the opposite is true as well.

Canadian GPAs may also be so high because of the lack of extracurricular activites. Let's see here, what do you guys want to do this afternoon?

Option 1: Go ice fishing
Option 2: Huddle in small groups to keep warm
Option 3: Go Ice fishing
Option 4: Go see Celine Dion

Seriously though, a GPA is just like IQ and all the other stats our there, it doesn't mean as much as people think. I mean, coming from undergrad I had a measly 3.0 science GPA. But combine that with being an All-American NCAA Athlete and a high DAT and things change. I have had no problem being at the top of my dental school class this year. GPAs are just like the original poster...1 dimensional.

Oh yeah, and the soap carving thing. Who gives a crap, so you can carve a bar of soap. That has little predictive value of what u can do in DDS school. Dentistry is a trade, practice makes perfect. A monkey could do an MO on 18 if he was trained long enough. Yes, some people pick things up faster and have higher skill levels, but anyone with enough motivation can master the skills necessary to be a proficient dentist.

 

[FMLizard]

Since when was a B = 3.3?

B = 3.0 at every school I have ever attended.

B+ = 3.33, A- = 3.67, A = 4.0

Also, you will be hard pressed to find a class that gives a B+ for an 86%. That is almost certainly a square B.

 

[DMX9911]

DcS,

There's no need to make any ignorant comments about Canadian extracurricular activities or the weather.

You'd think someone who is starting/attending professional schoool would be above that. Instead you're too busy believing general stereotypes to realise that where I live (Toronto) the climate is the same as New York's and Boston's.

And no, we all dont go ice fishing....stupid remarks like that should be left to those who are too ignorant to know anything about the rest of the world, oustside of the States.

 

[sidelines]

Not that I matter, but I totally agree with DMX9911's statement above and I live in the US.

 

[new york blows]

toronto is not the same as new york or boston

toronto can snow all week. you don't see that in new york.

plus, who cares

 

[DrRob]

Did you happen to notice New York's winter this year? How about upstate new york and the east coast. I think they had one of the worst winters, especially when compared to Toronto.

 

[AcidETCH]

I'm Canadian and I have applied to schools in both countries. From my experience, I would have to say that there simply isn't a simple way to compare the way schools in the states and canada accept their candidates. However, I can say that schools in the States are looking for the well-rounded candidate that possess the qualities that will make a great dentist without the obsession of GPA-tunnel vision. This is seen simply with the application process. Canadian school applications only ask mainly for marks, nothing or very little in the way of dental exposure or extracirricular activities. So, yes...in a sense, Canadian schools are very GPA oriented and the fact that there are so few dental schools make the GPA requirements very high.

Schools in the states however, care about the person rather than the numbers behind the person, although GPA is an important indicator of one's ability to negotiate dental studies. Isn't that how it should be?Personally, I don't think that marks determine how good a dentist will be, but the experiences that that person has had leading up to dental school, and the experiences of dental trainign that will help him/her better understand and treat their patients.

Simply put, schools of both countries look for certain things when they choose their candidates. Whether they are good or bad is yet to be seen. All I can say is that these schools have their own philosophy and direction that they want to pursue, something that I respect. Unfortunately, a lot of applicants follow the many stereotypes that are said about Canadian applicants and US schools, which is sad, considering that a lot of Dental professionals of both countries respect each other as professionals regardless where they attended dental school.

 

[kidflip]

Good Points AcidTech:

Just curious what's your tuition like? How are Canadians in the US affording to pay for their education?

 

[AcidETCH]

Kidflip,
Hahahahha, let's just say that my Ivy League education at UPenn will run me a cool ~1/2 million CDN dollars after 4yrs. Whereas, if I were to attend a Canadian dental school here the cost would only be about 120K CDN. Hopefully, the cost difference will also reflect the qulaity of education and experience....priceless...well...almost.

 

[LestatZinnie]

acidtech- man i admire your bravery for spending that much dough. your parents financing for any of this??

i was scared pantsless when UBC is charging me 160k for the 4 yrs, so I'll be going to McGill instead, which is going to cost around 70k only.

 

[dentalvibe8881]

Do Canadian dentist earn salaries comparable to the States? If so maybe that salary isn't so bad?

 

[LestatZinnie]

all the tuition i mentioned are in canadian dollars, btw.

a new grad here can expect 50-70k working part time. if you work in rural areas expect to pull in 100k. (figures from recent dental grad friend so should be realistic). experienced dentists with own practice, 200-300k (figure from my friend who works in bank). this is not bad. physicians in canada have salary cap imposed by government whereas dentists don't.

however, in major cities such as vancouver and toronto, market is highly saturated (like in california) and when i asked a few dentists about whether it's worth spending more than 100k on the tuition, they shake their heads and say they don't know. i know a dentist who just graduated from states, and he's working part time at the clinic i'm volunteering. how he makes ends meet, i don't know. if you have rich parents, it's different.

every person i know or heard that goes to the states do so because they can not get into dental school in canada. i too have considered it- but knew that it was more a need to prove that i can get in somewhere than a realistic choice, since i can not afford 1/2 million in tuition, nor do any of the dentists i know recommend it. however, if one works hard, i'm sure one can still recoupe the high tuition eventually, but it's a risk i won't take.