Are my eyes deceiving me, regarding purchasing a practice...

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hs2013

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Ok so I am only going to be a Sophomore in college but I've done more research on many things related to dentistry than probably 99% of pre-dents. I've been looking into dental practices that are for sale lately and the numbers are quite shocking. For example:

I saw one practice for sale that grosses 600k a year for 115 days of work a year with around an average of 50% overhead, that's crazy!

I saw another 250k a year on a 3 day work week, even with 60% overhead which is on the higher end, you'd be making 100k for 3 days a week.

Another, 1,000,000 gross on a 4 day work week with around 40% overhead, you kidding me?

Plus so many practices grossing 500k on a 3-4 day work week all around the country!

So what this is telling me is that I could be out of dental school, maybe do a 1 year AEGD/GPR, maybe associate for a year or 2 and then own a practice working 3-4 days a week making anywhere from 250k-500k?

Now of course I would have to deduct my net income as a lot of that would go towards the repayment of the dental practice loan, but other than that, fortunately, I will graduate with no debt as my parents are paying for my education. And once the loan is paid off, damn, I'll be raking in dough.

Am I right about all of this or am I missing something that is making it seem too good to be true? Now I know it would take a bit of effort on my part in terms of learning the business side of dentistry and being good, but naturally I am fairly good with business things so I don't think it would be too hard to learn if I put forth an honest effort. Other than that though... as long as I am not missing anything, dentistry seems like a sure-fire way to make bank, no?

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Pretty much. If you have no debt, you'll be making bank.
 
Your parents have 300k plus to pay for dental school?!?! Are you an only child?
 
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Man, I CANNOT WAIT to be a dentist. Awesome job in itself, but then I could just do an AEGD/GPR, work 1-2 years and save up some cash, take a loan on a practice and be making over 200k just like that.

And to str8smiles, I have a younger sibling as well and yes my parents have enough to pay for dental school, I don't see why that's a big deal, yes I know I am one lucky SOB but I also never tell anyone unless they ask that my parents are paying for it and don't flaunt it because other people get mad at me for that, when it's like I just happen to be in a fortunate situation, so yes I am going to take advantage of that. And let's not act like there aren't people even MORE fortunate than I am and many of those people are cocky and arrogant about it. I mean there are people whose parents have a successful practice, who pay for their education, and hook them up with a HIGH paying job right out of school.
 
It's just that easy. It's like a license to print money.
 
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it's a dangerous road to assume you are better than the average, because if everyone did this, only half would be correct

don't you think there is a good amount of luck involved?
 
8-9 more years guys, 8-9 more years. 7 years left of undergrad/dental, and then 1 year AEGD/GPR, 1 year associate, then I AM BUYING MY PRACTICE AT THE AGE OF 29/30 and LIFE WILL BE AWESOME. Working my own hours, being a good dentist, running a business, and hopefully great financial success.

Plus it all seems like a sure-fire plan as long as I keep working hard in school, work hard to be a good dentist, and be smart in purchasing a practice.

GIFSoup
 
8-9 more years guys, 8-9 more years. 7 years left of undergrad/dental, and then 1 year AEGD/GPR, 1 year associate, then I AM BUYING MY PRACTICE AT THE AGE OF 29/30 and LIFE WILL BE AWESOME. Working my own hours, being a good dentist, running a business, and hopefully great financial success.

Plus it all seems like a sure-fire plan as long as I keep working hard in school, work hard to be a good dentist, and be smart in purchasing a practice.

GIFSoup

Lol, Kid, I like the fact that you've got a dream and you seem pretty gung-ho about the dentist gig. It ain't all peaches and cream though. Keep in mind the hunchback-wealth correlation. The more hunchback you become, the more money you will make. Treat patients kinda like a goldmine, you'll be alright :)
 
Lol, Kid, I like the fact that you've got a dream and you seem pretty gung-ho about the dentist gig. It ain't all peaches and cream though. Keep in mind the hunchback-wealth correlation. The more hunchback you become, the more money you will make. Treat patients kinda like a goldmine, you'll be alright :)
Haha I know what you mean I know that it's a ton of work and things won't always work out your way, but I am like 99.9% confident that as long as I am doing things the right way, even with minor bumps or headaches along the way, in the end it will surely all work out.

See and this is the thing I love about dentistry, I can still help people doing a job I enjoy but it also allows me to go crazy with my craving for business and cash. Plus the security of it all, even most dentists I've shadowed have told me that you have to be an idiot to not be able to run a successful practice if that's your goal.
 
Haha I know what you mean I know that it's a ton of work and things won't always work out your way, but I am like 99.9% confident that as long as I am doing things the right way, even with minor bumps or headaches along the way, in the end it will surely all work out.

See and this is the thing I love about dentistry, I can still help people doing a job I enjoy but it also allows me to go crazy with my craving for business and cash. Plus the security of it all, even most dentists I've shadowed have told me that you have to be an idiot to not be able to run a successful practice if that's your goal.

Lots of idiots out there who can't run practices or don't have the balls to get a business plan together and start a practice. Keep your options open though, you may want to specialize if you find you like a particular niche. Keep up the go-getter attitude! Will serve you well in the future.
 
Also remember that those practices you are referring to with high gross...those are older dentists who are faster and have the business aspect down. Another item worrying me about the future of dentistry are the DSOs out there. They are rapidly growing and I believe undermining good dentistry :/ it will be interesting to see how things are in 5-10 years.
 
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So. Easy. That's why everyone's doing it.
 
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Could you please tell me how? What from what I said is wrong?

He cannot explain how you are wrong in an offensive enough manner so he won't say. This is where your wrong, you think things are too easy blah blah, and you don't understand that dentistry has a wide range of hi to lo salaries blah blah, and you don't realize that dentist associate for 90-140k starting out and getting a practice ain't easy. Blah blah, clearly you do your research, I think you know the grim and the good, early planning is the best move anyone can make.

Not worth my time, "kind sir." You are in for a rude awakening once you step foot into the real world.

Is his rude awakening as rude of the awakening as you will have because your pre dent, and don't know the price/profitability table used to determine practice prices? Is the awakening as bad as yours when you don't know the first thing about running a profitable practice, I'm pre dent and I research extensively like h2 probably does, don't hate on the proactive, if so provide some sound input. Because a solid plan beats your plan to become a dentist and hate it. That's how you sound. I will become a dentist and it will be a weak gig but hey it's a job and it's not about the money/debt yet you may not even care about helping people either, please enlighten me with a well put together argument. There's a reason ppl sacrifice 8 yrs. now tell me why it's a pipe dream to hope/plan for success.
 
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Oh snap! Some pre dent burn sauce bein' sprinkled up in here!

I never looked at a price/profitability chart thingy or whatever when I was 19 or 20 (or yet, for that matter). So far, so good, other than my IBR monthly payment being 2x my mortgage payment.

It's literally like having 2 mortgages!*

*As long as you don't have an actual mortgage.
 
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if you have dental school paid for … 86 the res (take CE to learn what you need to), find a practice to get in with early (1st 2nd yr of dschool). do a 3-5 yr buy-out from a seasoned dent vet somewhere and yea, dentistry is where its at.
 
Man, I love your enthusiasm! The key is to keep that enthusiasm when times are hard... and they will be hard. When you have to re-do your dentures for the 4th time because your prof doesn't like them, keep up the can do attitude. When you perf an abnormally coronal pulp chamber at 4:30, near the end of the day, keep up that can do attitude. When your NERB patient decides to not show up unless they happen to find an extra $100 in their pocket, keep up that can do attitude. When you fail a test for the first time, keep up that can do attitude. When a bank rejects your business proposal for a loan asking for certain changes you dont like, keep up the can do attitude. There will be many times that will test your resolve in dental school and beyond, so the moral of the story here is to keep up a good attitude. However... it is also important to note the other side of the coin. Be realistic, and don't overstate the ease by which this degree, income, and lifestyle is obtained... It is hard work and requires some brains. In fact, it requires more hard work and more brains than the average high-schooler. Can you be raking in the dough? Yeah, but only if you know exactly how to do it and are willing to work hard enough to do so. Easier said than done my energetic friend. :)
 
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Man, I love your enthusiasm! The key is to keep that enthusiasm when times are hard... and they will be hard. When you have to re-do your dentures for the 4th time because your prof doesn't like them, keep up the can do attitude. When you perf an abnormally coronal pulp chamber at 4:30, near the end of the day, keep up that can do attitude. When your NERB patient decides to not show up unless they happen to find an extra $100 in their pocket, keep up that can do attitude. When you fail a test for the first time, keep up that can do attitude. When a bank rejects your business proposal for a loan asking for certain changes you dont like, keep up the can do attitude. There will be many times that will test your resolve in dental school and beyond, so the moral of the story here is to keep up a good attitude. However... it is also important to note the other side of the coin. Be realistic, and don't overstate the ease by which this degree, income, and lifestyle is obtained... It is hard work and requires some brains. In fact, it requires more hard work and more brains than the average high-schooler. Can you be raking in the dough? Yeah, but only if you know exactly how to do it and are willing to work hard enough to do so. Easier said than done my energetic friend. :)

I couldn't have put it more eloquently myself. +1 my friend.
 
I couldn't have put it more eloquently myself. +1 my friend.
That's because instead you put it in terms of "your naiveté is mind-blowing" when not a single thing in my original post is wrong. There is absolutely no naivete in what I said, especially when in a few posts later I myself said

"Haha I know what you mean I know that it's a ton of work and things won't always work out your way, but I am like 99.9% confident that as long as I am doing things the right way, even with minor bumps or headaches along the way, in the end it will surely all work out."

Get out of here with your senseless bashing, you must just be mad that I do have a plan and have my head on straight with no fault in my approach. Check yourself first, do you even have the grades to call yourself a pre-dent and then go on to talk?
 
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To the OP, don't let the discouraging replies of others get you worked up, just keep doing what you doing. You sound motivated and determined. Keep up your ambitious efforts.
 
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@hs2013 : I must confess I like your spirit! You must keep it up. It reminds me so much of my younger self, but alas I don't think I've changed much (in the positive spirit department). Don't be discouraged by the naysayers. Keep your head grounded, keep your spirit burning ever bright, plan ahead and you can always be as successful as you dream! No kidding. All the best. And always remember to say thanks to your parents for being able to cover the cost of your education.
 
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I do have a plan and have my head on straight with no fault in my approach. Check yourself first, do you even have the grades to call yourself a pre-dent and then go on to talk?

Love the enthusiasm and the plan, as dentistry is a great profession.

Two pieces of advice for you- 1. The money will come... eventually. Don't let it be a main driving force. It can lead you astray from your initial plan, career goals and ethical code- it can consume you if you let it. And keep a level head regarding the financials... not like "raking in the dough". Your young, so you have time to mature in that regard... Dentistry is a profession. 2. You don't know what you don't know... To assume there is no fault with your approach at this point is dangerous. I am not saying you have said anything correct; I am just giving advice.

I wish you the best in your pursuit of a great profession and good luck with the upcoming school year!
 
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Love the enthusiasm and the plan, as dentistry is a great profession.

Two pieces of advice for you- 1. The money will come... eventually. Don't let it be a main driving force. It can lead you astray from your initial plan, career goals and ethical code- it can consume you if you let it. And keep a level head regarding the financials... not like "raking in the dough". Your young, so you have time to mature in that regard... Dentistry is a profession. 2. You don't know what you don't know... To assume there is no fault with your approach at this point is dangerous. I am not saying you have said anything correct; I am just giving advice.

I wish you the best in your pursuit of a great profession and good luck with the upcoming school year!
I get what you mean but man when I see so many dentists not just in my area but other areas too owning 500k-1 mil homes, nice cars, running a successful dental office and just enjoy every aspect of life from performing dentistry to their personal lives, I JUST WANT TO BE THERE ALREADY!!!

I mean working 4 days a week and being able to live that lifestyle, those dentists have to be making a lot and it's hard not to get caught up in how awesome life could be once at that point.

Not going to deny though, HARD HARD HARD work to get to that point.
 
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I get what you mean but man when I see so many dentists not just in my area but other areas too owning 500k-1 mil homes, nice cars, running a successful dental office and just enjoy every aspect of life from performing dentistry to their personal lives, I JUST WANT TO BE THERE ALREADY!!!

I mean working 4 days a week and being able to live that lifestyle, those dentists have to be making a lot and it's hard not to get caught up in how awesome life could be once at that point.

Not going to deny though, HARD HARD HARD work to get to that point.

You forgot the hot women draped all over.

Seriously. Like knee deep.
 
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I get what you mean but man when I see so many dentists not just in my area but other areas too owning 500k-1 mil homes, nice cars, running a successful dental office and just enjoy every aspect of life from performing dentistry to their personal lives, I JUST WANT TO BE THERE ALREADY!!!

I mean working 4 days a week and being able to live that lifestyle, those dentists have to be making a lot and it's hard not to get caught up in how awesome life could be once at that point.

Not going to deny though, HARD HARD HARD work to get to that point.


you should compare it to other options that take four more years of school after undergrad and 300k, and then another half a million investment in a practice. Also do the tax calculation on what you are paying in taxes (hint, with everything taken out in states with income tax this can get close to 50%) and its not so rosy.

If you are smart enough for dental school, you are smart enough to pursue other avenues that dont take such a large initial investment.

Google mid level providers, medicaid, the growth of insurance etc. Really do your homework before you take the plunge. If you have an exact city you want to live this will hobble you. Some dentists go years without purchasing because nothing comes up that will fit them.

Also only get into it if you really like the mouth. I had classmates who did not and only went in for the money or the lifestyle and theyre not very happy right now.
 
I saw one practice for sale that grosses 600k a year for 115 days of work a year with around an average of 50% overhead, that's crazy!

I saw another 250k a year on a 3 day work week, even with 60% overhead which is on the higher end, you'd be making 100k for 3 days a week.

Another, 1,000,000 gross on a 4 day work week with around 40% overhead, you kidding me?

Plus so many practices grossing 500k on a 3-4 day work week all around the country!

So what this is telling me is that I could be out of dental school, maybe do a 1 year AEGD/GPR, maybe associate for a year or 2 and then own a practice working 3-4 days a week making anywhere from 250k-500k?

Now of course I would have to deduct my net income as a lot of that would go towards the repayment of the dental practice loan, but other than that, fortunately, I will graduate with no debt as my parents are paying for my education. And once the loan is paid off, damn, I'll be raking in dough.

$1M on 40% OH is an extreme for dental offices and I think I know of the dentist that has that practice and he is about as frugal as one can ever be. The average dental office has about 60% OH. High end practices and those that advertise a ton can go as high as 70-80% OH. Specialists usually have a lower OH (35%-50%). I feel I am very frugal and have a 54% OH and I work 4 days/week. he average dentist according to the ADA grosses $175,000. You are lucky your parents are paying for your education. I'd pay for my kid's undergrad, but the cost of dental school is ridiculous. It's easy to get caught up into buying all kinds of new things (personal and practice stuff) when you're "raking in the dough", the next thing you know, you are in a heap of debt.
 
On dentaltown classified ads:
http://www.dentaltown.com/Dentaltown/ClassifiedAds.aspx?action=DETAILS&aid=66069

Oral Surgery Practice in Baltimore with collections of 500k on 2 days a week.
Let's say it's 50% overhead, so 250k/year. Probably selling for around 500k, so taking out a business loan at 7% will cost you 90k/year for 7 years. This leaves you with you with 160k/year for the fist 7 years, then 250k after that. Working 2 days a week. You can work more, but I think anything over 160k/year is gravy. Actually, anything over 100k for me is gravy! Just don't go on vacations and shopping sprees all the time, and you'll live fine.

With all that free time, you can concentrate on cooler things like a time-intensive online MMORPG like Final Fantasy XIV, and play it full time 5 days a week. You'd get the best equips and weapons. Actually finish the 6-hour quests, and start your own clan. Maybe even get married on there.
Remember all those times your parents yelled at you for playing video games all the time? Well no one is allowed to do that to you anymore since you are working, and making 160k a year. You just have an extended weekend.

PROFIT.
 
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How did I miss this gold mine in August?!

But it would seem like his parent's loaded and willing to help out. So it'd seem he's gonna be starting off better than most people.

And it IS possible to net $1 mill with 50% OH. It's just not common. It's like how every single kid on that court at the YMCA or the street corner has potential to become the next Lebron James.

Average GP nets around $150k-$175k with varying OH according to ADA report. But if his parents are as loaded as he say it is. He can just keep throwing money at it and it might work out.
 
On dentaltown classified ads:
http://www.dentaltown.com/Dentaltown/ClassifiedAds.aspx?action=DETAILS&aid=66069

Oral Surgery Practice in Baltimore with collections of 500k on 2 days a week.
Let's say it's 50% overhead, so 250k/year. Probably selling for around 500k, so taking out a business loan at 7% will cost you 90k/year for 7 years. This leaves you with you with 160k/year for the fist 7 years, then 250k after that. Working 2 days a week. You can work more, but I think anything over 160k/year is gravy. Actually, anything over 100k for me is gravy! Just don't go on vacations and shopping sprees all the time, and you'll live fine.

With all that free time, you can concentrate on cooler things like a time-intensive online MMORPG like Final Fantasy XIV, and play it full time 5 days a week. You'd get the best equips and weapons. Actually finish the 6-hour quests, and start your own clan. Maybe even get married on there.
Remember all those times your parents yelled at you for playing video games all the time? Well no one is allowed to do that to you anymore since you are working, and making 160k a year. You just have an extended weekend.

PROFIT.
Don't forget to add 4 years of OMFS residency which will not be cheap to pay off. I think I will puke if I hear Mom and Dad will pay for it. I think the overall majority of us take loans out to pay for dental school and residency.

My biggest concern with this post is how much it's about making money, working very little, and partying hard afterword. If that's your goal #1, I don't think this is the profession for you. #2 I hope you don't mind getting sued, because you'll be the one who cuts corners, doesn't give a **** about an angry patient upset over a bill/overbill/messed up procedure, or screws employees over making a buck here and there.
 
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Don't forget to add 4 years of OMFS residency which will not be cheap to pay off. I think I will puke if I hear Mom and Dad will pay for it. I think the overall majority of us take loans out to pay for dental school and residency.

My biggest concern with this post is how much it's about making money, working very little, and partying hard afterword. If that's your goal #1, I don't think this is the profession for you. #2 I hope you don't mind getting sued, because you'll be the one who cuts corners, doesn't give a **** about an angry patient upset over a bill/overbill/messed up procedure, or screws employees over making a buck here and there.

Two things - First, OMFS residency pays its residents about 45-55k a year (ish). Second, I assuming that you have not read much of the 'Bino's posts over the years, because if you have, you would see the jest in his post. I would not take it seriously :)
 
Don't forget to add 4 years of OMFS residency which will not be cheap to pay off. I think I will puke if I hear Mom and Dad will pay for it. I think the overall majority of us take loans out to pay for dental school and residency.

My biggest concern with this post is how much it's about making money, working very little, and partying hard afterword. If that's your goal #1, I don't think this is the profession for you. #2 I hope you don't mind getting sued, because you'll be the one who cuts corners, doesn't give a **** about an angry patient upset over a bill/overbill/messed up procedure, or screws employees over making a buck here and there.

I would assume that those who work themselves to exhaustion would be all about the money, and more likely to be sued. Those who go out and buys tons of nice things spread themselves thin and are more likely to resort to cutting corners to make a profit, cuz that boat won't pay for itself! Those who work less care less about the money, and would have less patients and employees to deal with. Final fantasy only costs $15 a month to play so it's not gonna break the bank.

If you consider sitting at home and playing video games "partying hard", then there's a big world you need to see!
 
Don't forget to add 4 years of OMFS residency which will not be cheap to pay off. I think I will puke if I hear Mom and Dad will pay for it. I think the overall majority of us take loans out to pay for dental school and residency.

My biggest concern with this post is how much it's about making money, working very little, and partying hard afterword. If that's your goal #1, I don't think this is the profession for you. #2 I hope you don't mind getting sued, because you'll be the one who cuts corners, doesn't give a **** about an angry patient upset over a bill/overbill/messed up procedure, or screws employees over making a buck here and there.

Oh, give me a break. My dentist went into dentistry to avoid the draft, not because he loved the work or something.

I asked him once, "Would you do it again?"

He said, "Yeah, it's easy money."

Don't be so naïve.

Cool out.
 
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On dentaltown classified ads:
http://www.dentaltown.com/Dentaltown/ClassifiedAds.aspx?action=DETAILS&aid=66069

Oral Surgery Practice in Baltimore with collections of 500k on 2 days a week.
Let's say it's 50% overhead, so 250k/year. Probably selling for around 500k, so taking out a business loan at 7% will cost you 90k/year for 7 years. This leaves you with you with 160k/year for the fist 7 years, then 250k after that. Working 2 days a week. You can work more, but I think anything over 160k/year is gravy. Actually, anything over 100k for me is gravy! Just don't go on vacations and shopping sprees all the time, and you'll live fine.

With all that free time, you can concentrate on cooler things like a time-intensive online MMORPG like Final Fantasy XIV, and play it full time 5 days a week. You'd get the best equips and weapons. Actually finish the 6-hour quests, and start your own clan. Maybe even get married on there.
Remember all those times your parents yelled at you for playing video games all the time? Well no one is allowed to do that to you anymore since you are working, and making 160k a year. You just have an extended weekend.

PROFIT.

Stupid question, but say a practice is collecting (grossing) $1 million a year. Runs at 60% overhead (feel this is typical) this leaves 400k left over for owner. Now, isn't this 400k taxed, say roughly at 30% this nabs $120000 leaving the owner with $280,000. Not looking too amazing considering you gross a million. Or does "collecting" mean post tax when an office says that? Thus the doc would keep the 400k? Just curious.
 
Stupid question, but say a practice is collecting (grossing) $1 million a year. Runs at 60% overhead (feel this is typical) this leaves 400k left over for owner. Now, isn't this 400k taxed, say roughly at 30% this nabs $120000 leaving the owner with $280,000. Not looking too amazing considering you gross a million. Or does "collecting" mean post tax when an office says that? Thus the doc would keep the 400k? Just curious.

That's profit pretax. Welcome to the real world. A wise man once told me " Remeber you live on your net not your gross".
 
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