Are my faculty biased?

[crazy4psych]

My psychology department was giving a community service award out so I applied since I volunteer for the Crisis Line and have over 500 hours accumulated from the past year and a half. Winning was contingent upon how the community service relates to psychology and how I used what I learned in the field. The application said I would hear from them on April 18th, but I never did. A few days ago, I emailed them and asked the status of my application. They replied and said they gave it to someone at the barbeque (I couldn't go). I knew who the person was, but let's call her Jessica. I know for a fact that Jessica had only started volunteering for TIP (trauma intervention program) recently, and didn't have that many hours. I replied and asked them how many hours she had, and they said I wasn't allowed to know. My fiance said that's not accurate, and since public funds were given out (the winner received 250 but I wasn't after the money) it's public information. So I replied and said, "I'm not allowed to know the applicant's information, but I'm allowed to know the number of hours and the nature of the work they performed to ensure that the administration of this award was not biased, since it was publicly funded." Was that appropriate to say? I feel like the award is biased because Jessica is one of those students who talks to them about her personal life and buys them candy... I only talk to them about grad school and research. One of the other psychology students I know got mad when I told her I didn't receive it and she thinks it was based on favoritism. I wanted to get advice from this site because most of you are credible and know a thing or two about ethics.

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[erg923]

Welcome to the world. Personal relationships and sometimes irrelevant connections get people jobs everyday.

 

[Sanman]

Agreed with ERG, it's not what you know, it is who you know. I really wouldn't make too much of a deal out of it as it will likely cause you more problems than it is worth.

 

[erg923]

And I generally like people who bring me donuts better than people who do not bring me donuts....just for the record.

 

[Sanman]

I figure most people do...hence the reason my dissertation defense had a nice spread and coffee.

And I generally like people who bring me donuts better than people who do not bring me donuts....just for the record.

 

[psychRA]

My fiance said that's not accurate, and since public funds were given out (the winner received 250 but I wasn't after the money) it's public information. So I replied and said, "I'm not allowed to know the applicant's information, but I'm allowed to know the number of hours and the nature of the work they performed to ensure that the administration of this award was not biased, since it was publicly funded." Was that appropriate to say?

Your fiance may know something that we don't about this particular situation. I'm thinking about times in my career when I've applied for opportunities that were publicly funded, such as grad school at a public university, grant funding from government organization, internship and postdocs through government agencies, etc., and I've never heard of an applicant pursuing information about the work that was performed in the selection process. In any case, even if you got this information, what would you do with it? I would be surprised if you had the right to appeal the department's decision, and even if you did, it definitely won't endear you to the faculty.

 

[deleted480308]

you already went farther than you needed to in order to get the exact same result....Jessica will enjoy her prize. Don't turn it into jessica enjoys her prize and everyone hates you

 

[crazy4psych]

you already went farther than you needed to in order to get the exact same result....Jessica will enjoy her prize. Don't turn it into jessica enjoys her prize and everyone hates you

I didn't know faculty members "hate" that easily... I'm astonished, truly.

 

[crazy4psych]

And I generally like people who bring me donuts better than people who do not bring me donuts....just for the record.

So who would you like better:
Student A: Talks to you about her life, how emotionally draining her volunteer work is, and brings you candy occasionally.
Student B: Asks you questions about your experience, asks to help with research, seeks advice about graduate school because they genuinely look up to you.

 

[el_duderino]

I didn't know faculty members "hate" that easily... I'm astonished, truly.

If you demand they produce information to justify their decision, accusing them of being unfair in their process........ maybe that is somehow related to the fact that you didn't get the position.

 

[el_duderino]

So who would you like better:
Student A: Talks to you about her life, how emotionally draining her volunteer work is, and brings you candy occasionally.
Student B: Asks you questions about your experience, asks to help with research, seeks advice about graduate school because they genuinely look up to you.

Personally I would prefer the candidate who seemed to have a more reasonable head on his or her shoulders, was emotionally engaging, seemed like a nice person, exhibits good judgment, and isn't likely to be rude later on.

 

[deleted480308]

If you demand they produce information to justify their decision, accusing them of being unfair in their process........ maybe that is somehow related to the fact that you didn't get the position.

we found something to agree on!

 

[sockit]

1) I doubt they "hate" you
2) Life isn't fair
3) Yup, they're probably biased, because they're human
4) You still have your 500 hours, good experience, and references

 

[el_duderino]

we found something to agree on!

Honestly, I suspect we agree on much more than you'd think. I think you're all right and I really *want* to agree with you about that other thing.

 

[deleted480308]

Honestly, I suspect we agree on much more than you'd think. I think you're all right and I really *want* to agree with you about that other thing.

I love lots of people I disagree with...I appreciate someone who challenges me in a civil manner, we all need to be called out to defend our thoughts now and then

 

[crazy4psych]

If you demand they produce information to justify their decision, accusing them of being unfair in their process........ maybe that is somehow related to the fact that you didn't get the position.

I'm simply standing up for myself because I know I have more hours than her by like 500.

 

[erg923]

Lady, for goodness sake is a "community service" award, get a grip.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm simply standing up for myself because I know I have more hours than her by like 500.

oh, this was the prestigious, "who has the most hours" fellowship?

for real, relax and let this go....you won't change anything

 

[el_duderino]

I'm simply standing up for myself because I know I have more hours than her by like 500.

You're not "standing up for yourself." No one attacked you. They chose someone who wasn't you. I imagine the award wasn't based simply on who has the most hours.

 

[crazy4psych]

Also, my fiance said our names should have been anonymous to eliminate bias. Do you guys agree?

 

[el_duderino]

In your avatar, are you the human or the dog?

 

[crazy4psych]

You're not "standing up for yourself." No one attacked you. They chose someone who wasn't you. I imagine the award wasn't based simply on who has the most hours.

You're right, it was based on how it applied to psychology and how we will use it in the future. If we both had a counseling related experience, and I wrote about how I used what I learned when counseling and how I will use it to pursue clinical psychology, and she wrote about going into I/O, then it doesn't make sense... And she had just started that volunteer experience the month prior. Also, I was inadvertently attacked because it was favoritism.

 

[crazy4psych]

In your avatar, are you the human or the dog?

Wow. Is this really a professional forum? I hope to god you're not a counselor, psychologist, or a professor.

 

[el_duderino]

I was inadvertently attacked because it was favoritism.

Between this and your other statements, I'd suggest you have some interpersonal relationship issues to work out, and have some maturing to do.

Honestly, I suspect that this has a lot to do with how the award recipient was chosen. I imagine that "Jessica" was simply a more mature, well-rounded individual.

 

[deleted480308]

You're right, it was based on how it applied to psychology and how we will use it in the future. If we both had a counseling related experience, and I wrote about how I used what I learned when counseling and how I will use it to pursue clinical psychology, and she wrote about going into I/O, then it doesn't make sense... And she had just started that volunteer experience the month prior. Also, I was inadvertently attacked because it was favoritism.

you are being irrational...take a deep breath, for your own good don't take this up with anyone at school

 

[crazy4psych]

you are being irrational...take a deep breath, for your own good don't take this up with anyone at school

I'm not being irrational. Everyone admitted it was biased they just think I should let it go. If someone was being unethical with a client, would you just let it go? Of course not. We need to practice being ethical every day.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm not being irrational. Everyone admitted it was biased they just think I should let it go. If someone was being unethical with a client, would you just let it go? Of course not. We need to practice being ethical every day.

when you keep pushing this, and it goes south.....please remember you were warned

 

[crazy4psych]

when you keep pushing this, and it goes south.....please remember you were warned

What could possibly happen?

 

[sockit]

ok what do you imagine is the best possible outcome if you push this? do you think they are going to give you the award?

 

[el_duderino]

What could possibly happen?

They'll all hate you, not give you any kind of reference or support, and exclude you from future events and opportunities.

You've already lit the match by directly questioning their decision-making process. Don't burn the whole bridge down with it.

 

[deleted480308]

What could possibly happen?

alienate administration and faculty within a dept that you need to write highly subjective letters of recommendation in order for you to progress in your career/education? and jessica still has the award...and good letters later on

 

[crazy4psych]

They'll all hate you, not give you any kind of reference or support, and exclude you from future events and opportunities.

You've already lit the match by directly questioning their decision-making process. Don't burn the whole bridge down with it.

Isn't that illegal?

 

[psychRA]

You're right, it was based on how it applied to psychology and how we will use it in the future. If we both had a counseling related experience, and I wrote about how I used what I learned when counseling and how I will use it to pursue clinical psychology, and she wrote about going into I/O, then it doesn't make sense... And she had just started that volunteer experience the month prior. Also, I was inadvertently attacked because it was favoritism.

You don't know that it was favortism, though. If this award was based on something that applicants wrote, maybe she simply wrote a more compelling essay. And especially if it was based on essays, you're never going to be able to prove that it was favortism, because it was a subjective decision, not a multiple choice exam. Moreover, since it was the department's decision to make, and not your decision, challenging them is unlikely to benefit you in any way.

At every step in your career in this field, you are going to be in competition with other people, and the outcomes won't always make sense to you. Grad school, practica, internship, postdoc, jobs - at every one of those time points, I had the experience of 1) not getting an interview/offer even though (in my opinion) I was qualified; as well as 2) getting an interview/offer over a colleague who was (in my opinion) more qualified than I was. You will almost never get any additional information about why you did or did not "win" those sorts of competitions, and you aren't entitled to appeal those decisions. Applications aren't anonymous, either. Same with submitting papers and conference presentations. You will submit something that is (in your opinion) a strong contribution, and it will be rejected, and there is nothing you can do about it except to keep working and submitting.

In ALL of those situations I just described, factors such as who you are and who you've worked with will factor into the final decisions to some extent. Sometimes that will benefit you, sometimes it won't. You can't prove it, and you can't prevent it. It's just part of professional life.

 

[deleted480308]

Isn't that illegal?

how does a psych student not know how basic human emotions work?

 

[el_duderino]

Isn't that illegal?

It's not illegal for people to shun and exclude you because they think you're a jerk and a sore loser, no. What kind of letter of recommendation do you think someone will write for you when you've been rude to them and publicly called them out for making biased award decisions?

 

[MCParent]

You don't know that it was favortism, though. If this award was based on something that applicants wrote, maybe she simply wrote a more compelling essay. And especially if it was based on essays, you're never going to be able to prove that it was favortism, because it was a subjective decision, not a multiple choice exam. Moreover, since it was the department's decision to make, and not your decision, challenging them is unlikely to benefit you in any way.

Yup.

Unless the criterion of the award was "number of hours at this one specific volunteer location," then you have no basis for having a problem with it. Pursuing this will only make you look like a whiny, entitled brat who is having a fit for not getting his/her way.

 

[Lisa44201]

Isn't that illegal?

No.

 

[crazy4psych]

It's not illegal for people to shun and exclude you because they think you're a jerk and a sore loser, no. What kind of letter of recommendation do you think someone will write for you when you've been rude to them and publicly called them out for making biased award decisions?

Well it was technically the "coordinator" (who's also my adviser) who I've been emailing, but the faculty voted on the decision. And I'm getting my LOR from the professor I currently do research with, a professor who recently left the department, and another professor who I know very well. So, I don't think it will affect my LORs, and no one hands out opportunities at my school anyway. If they did, though, I would know about it through my friend and I would go pursue that opportunity. I'm not trying to take the award at this point, I just couldn't help but ask because I know for a fact it was biased, and my email is already sent but if she refuses to tell me a second time I will back off.

 

[crazy4psych]

how does a psych student not know how basic human emotions work?

I understand, but they still aren't allowed to discriminate...

 

[el_duderino]

I understand, but they still aren't allowed to discriminate...

Discriminate? Do you think this had something to do with your race or ethnicity?

 

[crazy4psych]

Discriminate? Do you think this had something to do with your race or ethnicity?

Nope. Discrimination can be based off other things, too.

 

[crazy4psych]

Discriminate? Do you think this had something to do with your race or ethnicity?

Does your avatar represent your face before or after you see a client?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Nope. Discrimination can be based off other things, too.

If part of their decision was based on their simply liking her more than you, then that's not so much discrimination, and it's certainly not a legally-protected class in and of itself.

I agree with the others--it seems, based on your responses here and your reaction to the award in general, that you've taken the decision personally. It's understandable, but replying in the way you have isn't going to end up endearing you to anyone now or down the road, and as has been mentioned, personal relationships are VERY important in a field as relatively small as psychology. If you're genuinely curious, why not ask in a less accusatory way, such as something like, "I was wondering how I might have improved my application and how I might make myself more competitive for such awards in the future?" By accusing the faculty of being biased without hard evidence (and hard evidence does not constitute a few other students believing you should have won), it unfortunately causes you to come across as somewhat entitled, whether or not that's actually the case. And even if the faculty were overtly biased, as my advisor would often say, sometimes life isn't fair; you have to know how, why, and when to pick your battles (which of course includes factoring in the potential consequences of pursuing said battle and whether or not you're willing to shoulder those). Somewhat relatedly, my advisor was also fond of the saying, "never attribute to malice that which can instead be explained by ignorance;" it makes life as a whole much less aggravating.

Also, as another member mentioned above, not being picked for things (e.g., internship) and getting negative feedback/criticism (e.g., from advisors, other students, and patients) is a regular occurrence in psychology and mental health care. It can end up becoming a very toxic process for all involved when folks take the feedback personally rather than attempt to learn from it.

 

[erg923]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

 

[Ollie123]

As others have mentioned, my first thought was that this wasn't an award for who had the most hours and its entirely possible this other person wrote a more compelling essay. You have already crossed a line and behaved inappropriately based on your accusatory email and you are absolutely not legally entitled to details about the decision-making process just because public funds were used. It may or may not impact your letters, but its certainly not discrimination or in any way illegal if it does (i.e. if I think someone acted like an dingus, I'm not legally obligated to give them a good recommendation though I'm likely to turn them down rather than write a bad one). Maybe its because she went to the picnic, maybe its because she wrote a better essay, maybe its because she slept with the dean, maybe its because the faculty recognized she is on her way to becoming the greatest psychologist in history. From what you've posted, you may have some suspicions but no way of knowing which of these (or any number of other possibilities) it was. Who cares? Its a minor award, likely insignificant from the perspective of admissions committees, professionals, etc. As others have mentioned, learning to network and play nice is a key to success and that doesn't come from just talking about work all the time.

If you have troubles dealing with rejection you will need to get over that. Patients will "fire" you, papers will get rejected, grants will get scored horribly, supervisors will tear you apart, etc. If you react in this way every time something like this happens, your chances of making it through graduate school are approximately 0%. As injustices go, this one is extremely trivial in the event that it even is one at all (and I remind you that based on what you've said - evidence to support that is shoddy at best). Move on, redouble your efforts to make sure you win the next one, take it as a learning opportunity RE: socializing/professional networking and be gracious to your professors and fellow students.

 

[erg923]

You don't hear "dingus" that much these days, Ollie.

So who would you like better:
Student A: Talks to you about her life, how emotionally draining her volunteer work is, and brings you candy occasionally.
Student B: Asks you questions about your experience, asks to help with research, seeks advice about graduate school because they genuinely look up to you.

To answer this rather silly question, I would probably "like" person A better. Volunteer work, and this profession in general, is emotionally draining and not denying that is important. Second, I dont "like" or "dislike" someone based on whether or not they want to go to grad school or if they happen to be interested in my line of research (although I am no longer an academic), so your interest in these topics has no bearing on whether I "like" you are not. Lastly, as a stated before, I like candy. People who are all business and no candy make Jack a dull boy.

I also think there's a lot to be said for attitude and attitude towards community service if one desires a "community service award." There seems to be a large focus on "quantity" here, and maybe that's part of the problem? I don't know for sure, but if I were to venture a guess, I would say that the purpose of this award is to recognize people who embody the values, spirit and true purpose of the mission that they are carrying out. For example, a central tenet of service to others within Catholicism is the notion that WE need the poor and destitute, not the common assumption that THEY need us. If I see a student who is truly emotionally engaged in forming relationships in the context of
community service, then I really don't care how often they're doing said community service. It's going to beat out the person who does "more" service every time. Maybe something to think about...along with the fact that you seem to think you deserve a "prize" or special recognition for serving your fellow man-somewhat of a strange notion to me.

If you can cite the APA ethics code that these faculty violated then feel free, if not, I suggest you let the thing go and not accuse your professional elders of unethical conduct without evidence of a code violation.

 

[crazy4psych]

This is the last comment I'm going to make on this post because you guys obviously didn't read everything on here. I was saying it was biased on both quality AND quantity. Quality was the fact that I directly counseled people and I wrote about how I used client-centered therapy and how I'm going into clinical psychology, and she had already been accepted into the I/o program.... I don't feel like I "deserve" an award, I'm just not afraid to speak my mind and make sure I was treated fairly. By the way, it definitely was biased because I found out who was on the committee that voted and it included a professor I had a really bad incident with (she had just started teaching my first semester there and she lied to me and I caught her in it). Anyways, I'm just going to let it go because I don't want to dwell on it for another day. It's my fault for picking this undergraduate school.

 

[erg923]

It's important to you that you "correct" people?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

This is the last comment I'm going to make on this post because you guys obviously didn't read everything on here. I was saying it was biased on both quality AND quantity. Quality was the fact that I directly counseled people and I wrote about how I used client-centered therapy and how I'm going into clinical psychology, and she had already been accepted into the I/o program.... I don't feel like I "deserve" an award, I'm just not afraid to speak my mind and make sure I was treated fairly. By the way, it definitely was biased because I found out who was on the committee that voted and it included a professor I had a really bad incident with (she had just started teaching my first semester there and she lied to me and I caught her in it). Anyways, I'm just going to let it go because I don't want to dwell on it for another day. It's my fault for picking this undergraduate school.

Again, you don't know that it's biased; you're assuming/making informed guesses, but you can't at all say for a fact that even the professor with whom you had a bad incident voted against you/for this other person, let alone encouraged other committee members to do so. You're simply looking for confirming evidence, which to me at least suggests that part of you does feel that you deserved the award; otherwise, how could a decision against you be biased, as implying that it was biased implies that it was incorrect. Relatedly, you have no way of knowing how this person's essay compared to yours.

Beyond that, simply because someone is going into I/O doesn't mean that they aren't somehow less community service-oriented as someone going into clinical psychology (I/O can, for example, just as easily focus on societal issues and non-profit organizations as it can on offering consulting services to private companies). Same goes for the type of experience; it sounds like you were both involved in service delivery-related programs, and the actual duties in this case may not have been nearly as important as what you each learned from the experience (and how you then explained that in your essay).

Does it suck sometimes when we don't win awards/positions/etc. for which we think we were solid candidates? Yes. But by focusing on the potential bias aspect, you're selling yourself short in learning from this experience and using it to help you improve.

 

[psychRA]

Quality was the fact that I directly counseled people and I wrote about how I used client-centered therapy and how I'm going into clinical psychology, and she had already been accepted into the I/o program....

Just a thought: I understand that you volunteered for a crisis line, but were you formally trained to provide therapy and counseling as part of your volunteer work? I ask because, regardless of whether it's volunteer or paid work, people who haven't completed structured training generally do not provide actual therapy. I'm not suggesting that the work you do isn't important, and I'm sure that offering support and even referrals or advice is an appropriate part of that type of volunteer work, but that's not therapy. I am pointing out that no one should be providing actual counseling or therapy until they've been trained to do so, and it's rare to get sufficient training outside of some kind of academic training program.

When I used to review applications for our grad program, it often raised red flags for me if an applicant wrote about providing therapy if their application didn't make it clear that they were qualified to do so.

This is the last comment I'm going to make on this post because you guys obviously didn't read everything on here.

This is the last comment I'm going to make, and I'd like to share my process with you. At my count, 11 people have now taken the time to respond to your question, and the odds that each and every one of us misread or missed something that you said are pretty low. Obviously we're all internet strangers here, and no one on SDN owes anything to anyone else, but in my opinion, you've gotten constructive feedback and suggestions for the future. You're welcome to take it or leave it, and to form your own opinion about what to do next. But when you said that all 11 of us "obviously didn't read" what you said, I felt a bit offended. I am a reasonably intelligent person with experience in this field, and the fact that I disagree with your interpretation of this situation doesn't mean that I didn't understand your interpretation, or that I failed to read it thoroughly. I'm now wondering if I shouldn't have bothered to offer feedback in the first place. You aren't always going to agree with your colleagues in the future, but if you are dismissive of them or you assume that they must not "get it" because they don't agree with you, those colleagues may respond to you the same way that I am responding right now.