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tulane06 said:North Africans are typically considered Caucasians.
Barbarossa said:Caucasian is not available as a choice in the medical school application, instead the choice is White, and I am certainly not white. Besides many people in the Asian continent are Caucasian including Indians but they get their own box to tick. As for me I would guess my ancestry is a mixture of Black, White, and Middle Eastern people.
tulane06 said:North Africans are typically considered Caucasians.
Barbarossa said:I am from the African continent, and I was wondering would I have the benefits of being classified as URM?
Why not? It seems to me like the whole URM system was designed to be abused. I mean, if my fabulously wealthy, prep-school educated roomate who happens to be of Hispanic origins can claim URM status, I see no reason why anyone shouldnt be able toBarbarossa said:I am from the African continent, and I was wondering would I have the benefits of being classified as URM?
bon_vivant said:Why not? It seems to me like the whole URM system was designed to be abused. I mean, if my fabulously wealthy, prep-school educated roomate who happens to be of Hispanic origins can claim URM status, I see no reason why anyone shouldnt be able to
Barbarossa said:I am from the African continent, and I was wondering would I have the benefits of being classified as URM?
Law2Doc said:The form is inelegant and poorly written, but clearly the point of URM is to address historic disadvantages of certain peoples of minority in this country. It has nothing to do with the net worth or need of the current individual (such as your roommate), it addresses as a group. Thus by African American on the form they clearly mean black, because that is the group with the history of disadvantage in the process in the US.
Barbarossa said:I am from the African continent, and I was wondering would I have the benefits of being classified as URM?
bon_vivant said:No, the URM system is based off the fallacious notion that a group as a whole can in fact be 'historically disadvantaged' and that these disadvantages can be corrected through a haphazard system of preferential treatment. If it was just, as you claim, based on 'historic disadvantages,' then Latino-Americans most likely would not be eligible for URM status, while East Asian-Americans would be.
The system is flawed, and has been designed with loopholes big enough to drive a truck through. If the OP can take advantage of it, more power to him/her. If thats what it takes to demonstrate how ridiculous the system is, then its fine with me.
Thundrstorm said:and now we have yet another AA thread
Orth2006 said:You are wrong that URM equates to peferential treatment otherwise every URM that applies each year should get into every school they apply to.
Orth2006 said:URM status does not relieve any applicant of the need to have good stats.
Asking if one qualifies for AA and debating the merits of AA are two different things.Law2Doc said:It was already one from the very first post. What other reason would one be concerned about getting URM status.
bon_vivant said:Are you kidding me? Preferential treatment is exactly what it amounts to. Just because said preferential treatment is not so extreme as to allow every URM applicant to be admitted to every med school they apply to doesnt mean that they arent being given preferential treatment at all.
Pick up a copy of MSAR and look up the statistics for Meharry and Howard. I'm not saying those are bad stats, but lets face it, a non-URM applying with stats like that would most likely be rejected everywhere they applied.
Dude, if people are going to deny basic facts, then I'm going to have to point that out. I'm not attacking anyone, so there's really no need for the admonition to 'chill out.'gostudy said:Dude, seriously chill out. What you are saying has been said over and over on SDN. If you want to discuss AA first search this forum or the Drslounge forum and you will see all sides to this argument. Research that then you can come back and post on this thread about something that hasn't been said before.
bon_vivant said:Dude, if people are going to deny basic facts, then I'm going to have to point that out. I'm not attacking anyone, so there's really no need for the admonition to 'chill out.'
bon_vivant said:Pick up a copy of MSAR and look up the statistics for Meharry and Howard. I'm not saying those are bad stats, but lets face it, a non-URM applying with stats like that would most likely be rejected everywhere they applied.
bon_vivant said:Why not? It seems to me like the whole URM system was designed to be abused. I mean, if my fabulously wealthy, prep-school educated roomate who happens to be of Hispanic origins can claim URM status, I see no reason why anyone shouldnt be able to
Meharry Medical College:gostudy said:I don't consider this:
a basic fact. Where is the evidence for such a claim? There doesn't exist an alogorithm to getting into medical school. Besides, private medical schools like Meharry and Howard can do whatever they want.
Rafa said:I'm always amazed by this whole "chip on the shoulder" thing when it comes to minority status. It's as if URM-related debates seem to bring out the worst in certain (usually non-URM) people. All of a sudden, everyone's got a 'rich Hispanic friend' or 'upper-class African American classmate' who 'never had to struggle for anything' and who's going to get into 'all the good schools' because they're (black/hispanic/native american/etc etc).
I remember these debates from my pre-collegiate days at CC. As it was pointed out there, so many times, there isn't a single person out there (among those whom constantly complain about the unfairness of affirmative action) who would undergo a color transplant, and remain (black/hispanic/native american/etc etc) for the rest of their lives, in order to take advantage of the presumed assets of checking a particular ethnicity box during college/grad school applications. Not one.
You don't want to be a minority *all the time*...you just want to be a minority during the application process - and then POOF! non-minority again!
If that's not possible, then we revert to the wolf in the manger status. You can't use it, so you dun't want nobody 'lse to use it.
It's like high school all over again! (Good to know some things will never change).
bon_vivant said:Meharry Medical College:
Median Science GPA: 2.93
Median MCAT: 25
Howard University College of Medicine:
Median Science GPA: 3.10
Median MCAT: 24
These are the lowest numbers for allopathic med schools in the US. If you want to be a total denialist and pretend that this has nothing to do with the fact that these schools almost exclusively admit URMs (more specifically, African Americans) and that plenty of Pakistani and Korean applicants get into US allopathic medical schools with numbers like that, then thats your problem.
OK, if anyone's coming here with a chip on their shoulder, its you my friend. I never attacked people who get into schools with URM status. Rather, I was clarifying that it is indeed a system of preferential treatment, and that if the OP wants to take advantage of one of its many loopholes, then I see nothing wrong with it.gostudy said:You really are upset enough about this to go look up the numbers. Look, everyone and their mother's dog here knows that these two schools have low "stats". Who cares? As I said these schools are private and can do whatever they want. And don't for a minute call this reverse discrimination. Discrimination is being denied to eat at a certain restaurant because of the color of your skin. Being denied to attend certain events because of the color of your skin. Being denied access to certain educational oppurtunities because of the color of your skin. Medical schools are not doing this. If you are white, black, brown, yellow, red, green, whatever YOU CAN go medical school. No school is denying the right to anyone to attend medical school. Everyone has to do what they gotta do to get in. End of story. If you are a so called ORM, then you gotta kill your GPA and MCAT and if you don't then it's on you, not on the black kid you got into Meharry with low "stats."
And in light of the discrimination theme and in light of the excellent point made by Rafa, back in the day there were a whole bunch of black folks wished they were white. Hell, some of you may of heard of black people "passing" as whites back in the day. However, you will be hard pressed to find other people that would want to be a URM.
bon_vivant said:OK, if anyone's coming here with a chip on their shoulder, its you my friend. I never attacked people who get into schools with URM status. Rather, I was clarifying that it is indeed a system of preferential treatment, and that if the OP wants to take advantage of one of its many loopholes, then I see nothing wrong with it.
Rafa said:I remember these debates from my pre-collegiate days at CC. As it was pointed out there, so many times, there isn't a single person out there (among those whom constantly complain about the unfairness of affirmative action) who would undergo a color transplant, and remain (black/hispanic/native american/etc etc) for the rest of their lives, in order to take advantage of the presumed assets of checking a particular ethnicity box during college/grad school applications. Not one.
bon_vivant said:OK, if anyone's coming here with a chip on their shoulder, its you my friend. I never attacked people who get into schools with URM status. Rather, I was clarifying that it is indeed a system of preferential treatment, and that if the OP wants to take advantage of one of its many loopholes, then I see nothing wrong with it.
I'm calling it a loophole because it no doubt circumvents the intent of URM status. However, I fail to see how thats ethically any worse than hiring a tax attorney to find 'loopholes' in tax codes to save you money, or physicians placing all their major assets in trust to prevent them from being taken away in case of malpractice lawsuits against them. All of these things circumvent the 'intent' of the law.Law2Doc said:Just the fact that you are calling it a "loophole" suggests that there is something "wrong" with it. A loophole is an ambiguity through which the intent of a writing may be evaded. By using a loophole you are circumventing the desired effect of the rule/system. It may perhaps be legal, but ethical (right versus "wrong") is a totally different question.
bon_vivant said:I'm calling it a loophole because it no doubt circumvents the intent of URM status. However, I fail to see how thats ethically any worse than hiring a tax attorney to find 'loopholes' in tax codes to save you money, or physicians placing all their major assets in trust to prevent them from being taken away in case of malpractice lawsuits against them. All of these things circumvent the 'intent' of the law.
One of my friends, also of North African descent, claimed he was African American when applying to med school this year. It didnt cause any problems for him as far as I know.
He's more African-American in my book than you are, so why not? Unless you were born and raised in Africa, but I believe you were born in the US, correct?riceman04 said:not in my book
you admitted you are "non-black"....soooooooooooooooo...why would you even consider yourself as possibly being a URM?
I honestly don't mind my situation at all. I'm white, and I feel that I've been treated fairly. The point is not that I am/am not willing to change my race. The point is that it's not fair to give an additional advantage to someone who already has tons of advantages. I don't lose sleep over it though.Rafa said:there isn't a single person out there (among those whom constantly complain about the unfairness of affirmative action) who would undergo a color transplant, and remain (black/hispanic/native american/etc etc) for the rest of their lives, in order to take advantage of the presumed assets of checking a particular ethnicity box during college/grad school applications. Not one.
Barbarossa said:I am not an Arab, and that just shows how ignorant people are about Africa.
Africa is the second biggest continent, and is more diverse than you might think. I am a Berber, we are an indigenous people of Africa, and I will tick the box that says "African American", because its quite offending for me to not be considered an African. Imagine one of you people not being considered an American because they dont fit a certain stereotypical profile. my question which now I regret asking was, would I be considered a URM applicant even though I am not black (I not white), I was going to check the African box any way because thats who I am, an African.
Barbarossa said:I am not an Arab, and that just shows how ignorant people are about Africa. Africa is the second biggest continent, and is more diverse than you might think. I am a Berber, we are an indigenous people of Africa, and I will tick the box that says "African American", because its quite offending for me to not be considered an African. Imagine one of you people not being considered an American because they dont fit a certain stereotypical profile. my question which now I regret asking was, would I be considered a URM applicant even though I am not black (I also not white), I was going to check the African box any way because thats who I am, an African.
bon_vivant said:Are you kidding me? Preferential treatment is exactly what it amounts to. Just because said preferential treatment is not so extreme as to allow every URM applicant to be admitted to every med school they apply to doesnt mean that they arent being given preferential treatment at all.
bon_vivant said:Pick up a copy of MSAR and look up the statistics for Meharry and Howard. I'm not saying those are bad stats, but lets face it, a non-URM applying with stats like that would most likely be rejected everywhere they applied.
TheProwler said:He's more African-American in my book than you are, so why not? Unless you were born and raised in Africa, but I believe you were born in the US, correct?