Are podiatrists equally trained as MD/DO?

[omare61]

We all know how rigorous the MD/DO training route is, but we don't know much about podiatry, so how about a scenario:

Lets say a plane crashed on an Island and there was a podiatrist. Would that podiatrist be able to save lives, treat illness, perform minor surgery etc. on the victims?

Lets say a plane crashed on another Island and there was an Internal Medicine/Family medicine/Primary Care MD/DO, would they be able to save lives and treat illness as well as podiatrists.

Now if I say dentists or optometrists, they obviously wouldn't be able to compete with the MD/DO at saving lives. But how about a podiatrist? Are they equally trained to the non-invasive, non surgical physicians?


I understand that podiatrists are specialists of the foot and ankle and that every MD/DO has a specialty, but still the MD/DO no matter what specialty have to know a little of everything

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[nikkisorous]

Even though you are a podiatry student you still have to do rotations just like any MD/DO student.

Here is a sample rotation curriculum for years 3 and 4 from DMU's site:


Core rotations in family medicine, general internal medicine, general surgery, pediatrics, OB-GYN, psychiatry - 28 weeks
Selective rotations in primary care, medicine/surgery, anesthesiology/radiology, subspecialties - 12 weeks
Elective rotations - 8 weeks

Year 4 rotations:

Family medicine/rural, community or international medicine - 8 weeks
Elective rotations - 28 weeks

I don't think your question has a definite answer, but if a podiatrist was stranded on an island with plane crash victims, they would have no problem saving lives. (Just don't expect them to know how to perform surgery outside the lower extremities)

 

[PrePodPolice]

i think in alaska, the podiatrist is allowed to perform hand surgery. so if this plane crash happened on an island in alaska, and the injuries were all foot and hand related, then yeah!

 

[nikkisorous]

i think in alaska, the podiatrist is allowed to perform hand surgery. so if this plane crash happened on an island in alaska, and the injuries were all foot and hand related, then yeah!

Source?

As far as I know, in the United States podiatrists are not allowed to work above the tibial tuberosity.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Source?

As far as I know, in the United States podiatrists are not allowed to work above the tibial tuberosity.

Lol, the infamous hand post. In Minnesota, Alaska, andddd Michigan (maybe not michigan, but one other state) podiatrists are legally allowed to work on hands. I wouldn't do it though....

 

[msion]

Lol, the infamous hand post. In Minnesota, Alaska, andddd Michigan (maybe not michigan, but one other state) podiatrists are legally allowed to work on hands. I wouldn't do it though....

Aren't you supposed to be packing, Max? Congrats again for leaving the city of 5 smells

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Well those of us who go to "real schools" have something called Finals Week, so no, not yet.

I'm going in to shadow the good doctor this afternoon though! You should stop by!

 

[dyk343]

I would rather have an MD/DO saving my life than a podiatrist.

Sure we sat in class and went over a lot of the same material. But podiatrists are not as well trained in the rest of the body.

A MD/DO spends 3 years in residency and 2 years of clinics in medical school treating the body.

Pods spend 5-6 months total, maybe slightly more depending on the residency but my point remains the same.

We chose to specialize early, and be an expert of the foot/ankle. Lets be proud of that.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

We chose to specialize early, and be an expert of the foot/ankle. Lets be proud of that.

On a related note: ROAD (Radiation, Ophthalmology, Anesthesiology, and Dermatology) are some of the hardest specialties to get into. But I'll be damned if I let one of them operate on me after a plane crash....

 

[feet2017]

pre clinical wise we have almost the same education. for clinical wise it is similar but we don't get as much exposure as md/do schools. (i.e. we do not rotate through obgyn or psychiatry)

In clinicals though from what I hear it is all the same DPM, MD, or DO. Some westernu students told me that one of there classmates delivered a baby O.O

I think it would depend on the individual. For example a pathologist MD/DO that has been in a lab for 30 years wouldn't be any more efficient at saving lives than a podiatrist. But then an emergency medicine MD/DO would be able to save lives in an emergency situation. IMO

 

[dyk343]

pre clinical wise we have almost the same education. for clinical wise it is similar but we don't get as much exposure as md/do schools. (i.e. we do not rotate through obgyn or psychiatry)

In residency though from what I hear it is all the same DPM, MD, or DO. Some westernu students told me that one of there classmates delivered a baby O.O

I think it would depend on the individual. For example a pathologist MD/DO that has been in a lab for 30 years wouldn't be any more efficient at saving lives than a podiatrist. But then an emergency medicine MD/DO would be able to save lives in an emergency situation. IMO

...I don't think Western has graduated a class yet

 

[PrePodPolice]

...I don't think Western has graduated a class yet

i think the first class is 2013, and they just recently got accreditation. i dont like how they call you to inform you of an interview; now i have to return the phone call and awkwardly decline... they're just too far for me.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

In residency though from what I hear it is all the same DPM, MD, or DO. Some westernu students told me that one of there classmates delivered a baby O.O

What? This is where the training REALLY differentiates...

 

[feet2017]

i think the first class is 2013, and they just recently got accreditation. i dont like how they call you to inform you of an interview; now i have to return the phone call and awkwardly decline... they're just too far for me.

I thought it was 2012..because they just got accredited..

 

[feet2017]

...I don't think Western has graduated a class yet

Maybe it was during clinicals then. Because western pod students take an obgyn course during there pre clinical years because some of them have had to deliver babies..

This is all my memory from my interview day...If there is anyone else that knows for sure that would be great haha...

 

[PrePodPolice]

feet, vagina.... it's all the same.

 

[feet2017]

What? This is where the training REALLY differentiates...

WOOPS i meant during your clinical years...sorry i just took my final at 8 am.....When you rotate at the hospitals the pod student told me your tag just says medical student so that is how you are treated.

Sorry.

 

[Shinobiz11]

You should have used zombie-infection as an example, plane-crash on an island is so 2000's.

I obviously don't have enough experience to make a response. I'd like to hear an attending's opinion on this...PADPM, Feli? Maybe I'll just ask Feli next week.

 

[whg342]

What is the point of this question? Of course podiatrists are not equally trained as MD/DOs, they are PODIATRISTS not MD/DOs. Yes podiatrist go through the first 2 years of pod school learning about the entire body, and yes residency requires internal med rotations, but the ultimate end goal is feet - so obviously the focus of training is less concentrated in certain areas and more concentrated in other areas.

I mean forget even comparing these two completely different professions, I'm pretty sure there's already major differences in training just between two MD specialties. I highly doubt dermatology and emergency medicine provide the same degree of training when it comes to addressing certain illnesses.

And to answer your question about podiatrist saving lives after this fabled plane crash? YES.

 

[hughesn2]

The only way I can answer this just b/c I am not even in podiatry school yet is look at the professions as a whole.
An MD or DO goes through schooling to understand the ENTIRE human body.

A DPM goes through schooling ONLY to understand the foot and ankle.

So if there is this plane crash I would want an ER doctor or nurse more than just an ordinary DPM or DO. But I would agree that this is an odd question to ask.

If you had just a foot laceration in the plane crash you would be pretty lucky. But if you got in a plane crash I would expect more head trauma and injuries to the entire body not just the foot. Even my podiatrist that is the most accredited DPM in Southeast Michigan has told me that he may be have a 'Dr.' in front of his name but if you came to my office asking about a broken or fractured arm he wouldn't be able to help you b/c he is taught how to heal the foot and ankle not the entire body.

So if it did come down to MD or DPM in a plane crash I would easily pick the MD, but I would rather have an ER doctor or nurse over a pediatrician.

 

[Ferocity]

The only way I can answer this just b/c I am not even in podiatry school yet is look at the professions as a whole.
An MD or DO goes through schooling to understand the ENTIRE human body.

A DPM goes through schooling ONLY to understand the foot and ankle.

So if there is this plane crash I would want an ER doctor or nurse more than just an ordinary DPM or DO. But I would agree that this is an odd question to ask.

If you had just a foot laceration in the plane crash you would be pretty lucky. But if you got in a plane crash I would expect more head trauma and injuries to the entire body not just the foot. Even my podiatrist that is the most accredited DPM in Southeast Michigan has told me that he may be have a 'Dr.' in front of his name but if you came to my office asking about a broken or fractured arm he wouldn't be able to help you b/c he is taught how to heal the foot and ankle not the entire body.

So if it did come down to MD or DPM in a plane crash I would easily pick the MD, but I would rather have an ER doctor or nurse over a pediatrician.

Nope. I also stopped reading here.

 

[arez10]

http://www.msdlatinamerica.com/ebooks/RockwoodGreensFracturesinAdults/sid1448143.html Aviator's Astragulus, anyone?

Sorry. Trauma final Friday. Anyways, I think on a stranded island, a medical professional with a doctorate degree, especially one who has done a 3 year residency, is infinitely better than a lay person. I think the rest is hard to judge since I don't know anything about different medical residency programs, and I barely know about podiatry residency rotations right now. But why does it matter? I think it all depends on what that person is comfortable treating. Would you feel comfortable with a radiologist treating a heart attack in a restaurant? General training in your residency probably doesn't matter that much 30 years out.

That being said, the quote in the above post about podiatrists only learning about the foot and ankle is completely false. You need to be competent enough to hold a conversation with a doctor in any other specialty that may be consulting on your patient. You need to know your pharm. You need to know the most common systemic diseases that your patient will also have besides their foot problems. Did I learn all the CD markers in Micro like I'm sure med students did? No, I didn't. But that also doesn't mean I'm only learning the lower extremity.

 

[josebiwasabi]

Nope. I also stopped reading here.

lol yeah it's actually pretty funny how off the mark that statement is. i'm well into my 4th semester now and i know way more about the rest of the body than the foot and ankle, except for anatomy where my knowledge of the lower extremity is much more detailed. in terms of pathology and physiology and basically everything else, i know way more about the rest of the body.

that being said, in the hypothetical situation given, i would definitely rather have an MD or DO help me out over a DPM. the only exception i could think of is if the MD/DO is path/rad/etc and has been out of residency for many years and the DPM has recently completed residency. in that case, i would imagine the DPM's skills dealing with trauma and emergency medicine would be sharper.

 

[PADPM]

The statement that we only know about the foot and ankle isn't even worth a response. I can guarantee that I know more than just the foot and ankle, however that's "all" I treat. That doesn't equate with that's all I know.

Yes, our medical colleagues are more adept at treating medical issues.......that's what they do.

But with all the surgery I've performed over the years, I'm confident that if this hypothetical scenario occurred, any DPM who is well trained surgically is more prepared to perform surgery on other body parts than an MD who hasn't ever performed any surgery of any kind.

Surgical principles are surgical principles no matter what body part is involved. I'm confident I would be better prepared to surgically repair an upper extremity injury than a non surgical MD. If the patient has medical issues, the MD is the go to guy. If I can perform a reconstructive foot surgery, I can certainly suture any body part.

Regardless, there really is no point to this question, since it is completely hypothetical and it can only result in an argument.

However, the BEST qualified to treat anyone on this deserted island is a veterinarian. After all, they know how to do everything, without even having a conversation with the patient.

 

[CapCrunch]

The statement that we only know about the foot and ankle isn't even worth a response. I can guarantee that I know more than just the foot and ankle, however that's "all" I treat. That doesn't equate with that's all I know.

Yes, our medical colleagues are more adept at treating medical issues.......that's what they do.

But with all the surgery I've performed over the years, I'm confident that if this hypothetical scenario occurred, any DPM who is well trained surgically is more prepared to perform surgery on othe body parts than an MD who hasn't ever performed any surgery of any kind.

Surgical principles are surgical principles no matter what body part is involved. I'm confident I would be better prepared to surgically repair an upper extremity injury than a non surgical MD. If the patient has medical issues, the MD is the go to guy. If I can perform a reconstructive foot surgery, I can certainly suture any body part.

Regardless, there really is no point to this question, since it is completely hypothetical and it can only result in an argument.

However, the BEST qualified to treat anyone on this deserted island is a veterinarian. After all, they know how to do everything, without even having a conversation with the patient.[/B}

Since this isn't really a serious thread- I've always found that aspect of veterinary medicine fascinating. Imagine treating someone who can't talk, or tell you wear it hurts?

 

[CapCrunch]

The statement that we only know about the foot and ankle isn't even worth a response. I can guarantee that I know more than just the foot and ankle, however that's "all" I treat. That doesn't equate with that's all I know.

Yes, our medical colleagues are more adept at treating medical issues.......that's what they do.

But with all the surgery I've performed over the years, I'm confident that if this hypothetical scenario occurred, any DPM who is well trained surgically is more prepared to perform surgery on othe body parts than an MD who hasn't ever performed any surgery of any kind.

Surgical principles are surgical principles no matter what body part is involved. I'm confident I would be better prepared to surgically repair an upper extremity injury than a non surgical MD. If the patient has medical issues, the MD is the go to guy. If I can perform a reconstructive foot surgery, I can certainly suture any body part.

Regardless, there really is no point to this question, since it is completely hypothetical and it can only result in an argument.

However, the BEST qualified to treat anyone on this deserted island is a veterinarian. After all, they know how to do everything, without even having a conversation with the patient.

Since this isn't really a serious thread- I've always found that aspect of veterinary medicine fascinating. Imagine treating someone who can't talk, or tell you wear it hurts?

 

[PrePodPolice]

but i heard a lot of veterinarians have PTSD. wouldnt want to be stuck with that on an island...

 

[bunion123]

feet, vagina.... it's all the same.

actually its esophagus and vagina...wait until you have histology then you'll understand.

 

[Robert De Niro]

So if there is this plane crash I would want an ER doctor or nurse more than just an ordinary DPM or DO.

You do know that DOs can be ER docs, right? Three to four year residency like MDs, and coincidentally just as long as DPM (+fellowship to equal 4).

 

[SLC]

Since this isn't really a serious thread- I've always found that aspect of veterinary medicine fascinating. Imagine treating someone who can't talk, or tell you wear it hurts?

What, you mean like Pediatrics (neonatology specifically)?

The stakes are so much lower for your average Veterinarian.

And for the most part I'd agree that I'd rather have a Podiatrist, than an Internist or FP there to suture up all the gore from the plane crash. But once that's over, in a long term "stranded on an island" type scenario, I'd take a good Internist, or an FP with wilderness medicine experience.

But without antibiotics etc. we'd all be dead in short order most likely anyway.

 

[preDO12345678]

wonderful responses.. hehehe keep on going LOL

 

[PrePodPolice]

i'd prolly take baby jesus, or amy schumer over any podiatrist. those two are waaaaay more entertaining than your average podiatrist.

 

[hughesn2]

lol yeah it's actually pretty funny how off the mark that statement is. i'm well into my 4th semester now and i know way more about the rest of the body than the foot and ankle, except for anatomy where my knowledge of the lower extremity is much more detailed. in terms of pathology and physiology and basically everything else, i know way more about the rest of the body.

that being said, in the hypothetical situation given, i would definitely rather have an MD or DO help me out over a DPM. the only exception i could think of is if the MD/DO is path/rad/etc and has been out of residency for many years and the DPM has recently completed residency. in that case, i would imagine the DPM's skills dealing with trauma and emergency medicine would be sharper.

But like I said I am not in podiatry school. I was just basing the facts off what other podiatrist (who did graduate back in the 90s) have told me what they studied. But the fact is that after most students 1st year they probably don't remember the physiology of the entire body more than an MD would.

But overall, I believe this is kind of an odd hypothetical question

 

[hughesn2]

You do know that DOs can be ER docs, right? Three to four year residency like MDs, and coincidentally just as long as DPM (+fellowship to equal 4).

And yes I understand that. You didn't read further into it when I said if they were a pediatrician or some type of non surgical DO. If I was injured in an area where I needed treatment to an open wound anybody that is an ER doctor or nurse I would take over someone who doesn't do surgeries on daily basis like an ER doctor would.

 

[Ferocity]

And yes I understand that. You didn't read further into it when I said if they were a pediatrician or some type of non surgical DO. If I was injured in an area where I needed treatment to an open wound anybody that is an ER doctor or nurse I would take over someone who doesn't do surgeries on daily basis like an ER doctor would.

Except ER docs don't do surgery "on a daily basis"...

 

[AttackNME]

Assuming this island was devoid of the resources available in a hospital setting, I think the person most equipped to save lives in this hypothetical scenario would be a boy scout. They will likely have the physical stamina and capability of obtaining resources and applying their training to save lives such as application of splints fabricated from sticks and leaves, hemostasis and pain management obtained by their knowledge on plants with thrombotic and analgesic properties. Omare, as a podiatry student, you have available the resources to learn as much as any other medical student, it is just up to you to actually learn it.

Will knowing a bit of everything make you a good foot and ankle specialist? No. Knowing more about the foot and ankle than any other doctor will make you a foot and ankle specialist. Do MD/DOs know a little bit more of everything else than podiatrists know? Depends on how motivated the individual is. Do patients care how much you know? No, it matters more that you do a good partial nail avulsion, bunionectomy, ORIF of an acute fracture, and have excellent bedside manners. (Basically, you should know as much or more about the foot and ankle as a cardiologist knows about the heart, see where I'm going?)

 

[pacpod]

While the overall attitude has been positive, this thread has been closed due to its inflammatory nature.