Are pre-derms and pre-orthos the premeds of medical school?

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Officer Farva

Gimme a liter of cola.
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Just asking because I am curious, both are super-competitive fields.

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I guess, but I like my term better :cigar:

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Smoking'll kill you, brü
 
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I would still say no. In my experience, nearly everyone tries hard (you kind of have to...) and being more gunner or try-hardy is personality dependent rather than specialty dependent.
 
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Depends on who you are talking about. The ones who are actually pre-derms are the snipers. They come out of nowhere and take you down. The ones who say they are interested in derm in first year end up in primary care
 
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I have a good friend who had a LizzyM of 78, did dermatology research in Beverly Hills, and was accepted to a top medical school in NYC last year with the dream of opening a dermatology clinic in the upper east side. He is now the in bottom quartile of his class and, when I spoke to him last, he mentioned that if he can squeeze into an IM program in the city he's going to kiss the floor he walks on every day of his residency.
 
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I have a good friend who had a LizzyM of 78, did dermatology research in Beverly Hills, and was accepted to a top medical school in NYC last year with the dream of opening a dermatology clinic in the upper east side. He is now the in bottom quartile of his class and, when I spoke to him last, he mentioned that if he can squeeze into an IM program in the city he's going to kiss the floor he walks on every day of his residency.
I'm sorry for your friend, but that sounds like a classic premed story. High school valedictorian gets accepted to top college with the goal of going to Harvard Medical School. Thinks premed will be easy. Get's a 2.0 the first year.
 
I'm sorry for your friend, but that sounds like a classic premed story. High school valedictorian gets accepted to top college with the goal of going to Harvard Medical School. Thinks premed will be easy. Get's a 2.0 the first year.
It's actually a pretty typical story in medical school- everyone and their mother wants to do derm or ortho until they get their Step 1 score back ;)
 
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Depends on who you are talking about. The ones who are actually pre-derms are the snipers. They come out of nowhere and take you down. The ones who say they are interested in derm in first year end up in primary care

God this is so true. I know 3 people in my class who knew they would be orthos before M1 started fast forward and the most ambitious of them is trying to get a halfway decent IM program
 
It's actually a pretty typical story in medical school- everyone and their mother wants to do derm or ortho until they get their Step 1 score back ;)
That's the hard nut for many in med school -- pretty much everybody there previously got good grades, mostly A's and B's, but about half of them are now going to be below average in med school. People get shocked to learn that they were only A students when surrounded by more average gentlemens C types in college, but against real competition they aren't all that. Most of the people I know who struggled in med school went in thinking they were "in the drivers seat" in terms of specialty, before learning they were more in the "road kill" pile.
 
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Considering this apparent over-estimation of one's own capabilities that is inherent to self-bias, what's the best way to prevent yourself from being shell-shocked by the "big leagues" of medical school? Is it simply to become comfortable with whatever level of achievement you're capable of?

My guess: Learn how to fail as early as possible so you can be proactive when set back and not spiral downward
 
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It's actually a pretty typical story in medical school- everyone and their mother wants to do derm or ortho until they get their Step 1 score back ;)
Not true, I would never apply to derm/ortho. I am lazy, but not too lazy. But I am essentially high functioning lazy. Also, I want the freedom to move anywhere in the country where I want.
 
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I'm sorry for your friend, but that sounds like a classic premed story. High school valedictorian gets accepted to top college with the goal of going to Harvard Medical School. Thinks premed will be easy. Get's a 2.0 the first year.

It's actually a pretty typical story in medical school- everyone and their mother wants to do derm or ortho until they get their Step 1 score back ;)

Pretty much the premise of Malcolm Gladwell's David and Goliath. Excellent read, if anyone has the time.
 
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Not true, I would never apply to derm/ortho. I am lazy, but not too lazy. But I am essentially high functioning lazy. Also, I want the freedom to move anywhere in the country where I want.
It wasn't meant to be taken literally. Couldn't pay me enough to do either job. But dermatologists work their butts off, they're hardly lazy.
 
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Considering this apparent over-estimation of one's own capabilities that is inherent to self-bias, what's the best way to prevent yourself from being shell-shocked by the "big leagues" of medical school? Is it simply to become comfortable with whatever level of achievement you're capable of?
Simple. Don't let your head swell. Run scared. You've accomplished nothing yet, and maybe never will against this higher level of competition -- take the attitude that you'll have to earn everything you are going to get.

Anyone can hit a fast ball in little league because you aren't exactly facing off against Nolan Ryan. Look at college the same way -- little league. you might be really good or not but you sure haven't proven anything yet.
 
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I was just about to say the same thing. The only thing OP is gunning for right now is infamy.
I see myself more as a political commentator/some random guy who says the first thing that pops into his head. I also see myself as the voice of the people.
 
I see myself more as a political commentator/some random guy who says the first thing that pops into his head. I also see myself as the voice of the people.

I wasn't going to comment but this... WOOOOOOOOOW. No one gives a **** that you got accepted to a Top 10 school. No one gives a **** about your cringey "pre derm pre ortho = pre med of med" terminology. No one gives a **** about your concern that mid tier schools exercise yield protection. No one gives a **** about your CS background. And no one asked you to speak for them. If you want to be random, The Lounge is right over there.
 
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Simple. Don't let your head swell. Run scared. You've accomplished nothing yet, and maybe never will against this higher level of competition -- take the attitude that you'll have to earn everything you are going to get.

Anyone can hit a fast ball in little league because you aren't exactly facing off against Nolan Ryan. Look at college the same way -- little league. you might be really good or not but you sure haven't proven anything yet.

I feel the problem is less humility and more inability to disentangle success from your self-esteem. A lack of humility makes you an arrogant ass. A lack of self-awareness and strong identity leads to a much darker reality.

Of course, I'm just going off how I see underclass men struggle in undergrad after doing well in high school and if college is little league then high school is tee ball. Working hard in college and not having it immediately translate to success in medical school can take its toll.
 
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I wasn't going to comment but this... WOOOOOOOOOW. No one gives a **** that you got accepted to a Top 10 school. No one gives a **** about your cringey "pre derm pre ortho = pre med of med" terminology. No one gives a **** about your concern that mid tier schools exercise yield protection. No one gives a **** about your CS background. And no one asked you to speak for them. If you want to be random, The Lounge is right over there.
Woahhhhh, @Lost in Translation coming in hot right now. Take it easy buddy.
 
Shut up, Farva.

Also, I swear to God I'll pistol whip the next guy who says "Shenanigans."
This is the greatest thing ever. I will be going to my favorite restaurant over the weekend, I think you know the place.
 
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Simple. Don't let your head swell. Run scared. You've accomplished nothing yet, and maybe never will against this higher level of competition -- take the attitude that you'll have to earn everything you are going to get.

Anyone can hit a fast ball in little league because you aren't exactly facing off against Nolan Ryan. Look at college the same way -- little league. you might be really good or not but you sure haven't proven anything yet.
The way I see it (using the MCAT as an example), it's like taking the people who scored in the top 30-40% of the MCAT and then having them compete against each other. Suddenly you've halved the people, and everyone still thinks they're capable of being in the top 95% because they've always been there, but instead of being the 6th best student out of a hundred, they're the six best student out of 50, and only at 90%.
 
I wasn't going to comment but this... WOOOOOOOOOW. No one gives a **** that you got accepted to a Top 10 school. No one gives a **** about your cringey "pre derm pre ortho = pre med of med" terminology. No one gives a **** about your concern that mid tier schools exercise yield protection. No one gives a **** about your CS background. And no one asked you to speak for them. If you want to be random, The Lounge is right over there.
I agree with @Lost in Translation. Every day there's new crap being posted by you with absolutely zero substance. It's like opening my email box to spam that wasn't filtered.
/endrant
 
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The way I see it (using the MCAT as an example), it's like taking the people who scored in the top 30-40% of the MCAT and then having them compete against each other. Suddenly you've halved the people, and everyone still thinks they're capable of being in the top 95% because they've always been there, but instead of being the 6th best student out of a hundred, they're the six best student out of 50, and only at 90%.
Or maybe the 50th best person out of that 50, and just happened to have a good day previously. The guy who is the bottom of his class in med school probably did very well in college. If you think you'll still be "6th best" you aren't quite getting my point.
 
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I wasn't going to comment but this... WOOOOOOOOOW. No one gives a **** that you got accepted to a Top 10 school. No one gives a **** about your cringey "pre derm pre ortho = pre med of med" terminology. No one gives a **** about your concern that mid tier schools exercise yield protection. No one gives a **** about your CS background. And no one asked you to speak for them. If you want to be random, The Lounge is right over there.
Someone has had it with @Officer Farva ! (And I don't think @Lost in Translation is the only one!)
 
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Or maybe the 50th best person out of that 50, and just happened to have a good day previously. The guy who is the bottom of his class in med school probably did very well in college. If you think you'll still be "6th best" you aren't quite getting my point.
Yes I apologize I went for an abstract answer. Just like any standardized test the MCAT is no different in that there is a huge variability in the possibility of your score from you having a bad day or other reasons. Just because you were in the top 5% on your MCAT doesn't automatically give you the ability to stay there (unlike my quote suggested), but it just means you did well on a test. And who knows maybe you work in a research lab that focuses on immunology and you got two passages on immuno on your MCAT so you crushed it, vs. the guy who works in a physics lab that studies electromagnetics who got no passages on the MCAT and didn't do as well. All the stats and EC's in the world only get you so far, and are indicative of your ability to have success at the previous level-once you get into medical school, all bets are off. I think thats more-so what your point was. Everyone thinks based on success at the previous level that coming in that they are going to be Peyton Manning, but the Ryan Leaf's of the world still exist.
 
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Shut up, Farva.

Also, I swear to God I'll pistol whip the next guy who says "Shenanigans."

Hey Farva, what's the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy **** on the walls and the mozzarella sticks?


edit - whoa SDN censored my post!
 
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I would say it is personality-dependent. People are capable of whatever they want, while they there are certainly some geniuses in medical school with 145+ IQs, I would say it really depends. In my experience, the smartest(the people with the most knowledge of medicine and best critical thinking skills but consequently their social skills suffer) are radiologist and pathologists, I would put neurosurgeons up as just as smart, but they just aren't required to know the breadth and depth of those specialties however neurosurgeon is freaking impossible don't get me wrong. I knew genius internal medicine docs, I also knew derm people who I couldn't believe they got into medical school.
 
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... Everyone thinks based on success at the previous level that coming in that they are going to be Peyton Manning, but the Ryan Leaf's of the world still exist.

Ok if you like football analogies better than my baseball one -- med school is 90% people who think they are Peyton Manning but most of them are Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Heath Schuler. Heath Schuler is probably the best example because he showed up thinking he was hot stuff -- a Heisman QB thought most ready to perform at the NFL level and be the franchise QB for DC for years to come, but ended up getting schooled by Gus Frerotte, a late round pickup nobody who stole his job. Expect to meet a lot of Frerottes in med school.
 
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Ok if you like football analogies better than my baseball one -- med school is 90% people who think they are Peyton Manning but most of them are Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Heath Schuler. Heath Schuler is probably the best example because he showed up thinking he was hot stuff -- a Heisman QB thought most ready to perform at the NFL level and be the franchise QB for DC for years to come, but ended up getting schooled by Gus Frerotte, a late round pickup nobody who stole his job. Expect to meet a lot of Frerottes in med school.
To make things even more interesting, a lot of times you can't tell the difference between the Schulers and the Frerottes. Some of the most confident people you will meet end up being Schulers, and you would never guess that despite their front, they are really struggling. Then there are always the Frerottes that fly under the radar, working hard and scoring top in the class. You would never guess by talking to these people that they are raising the curve.
 
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It's really not either your Peyton Manning or JaMarcus Russell it's more there's only one or two Peyton Manning's, one guy with all the shoe deals and the multiple insane contracts ie the guy who matches into plastics with no sweat. And there are some at the bottom, the JaMarcus's and Ryan Leaf's of the world ie the one's who either drop out or struggle to match.

More so is the people who do fine but we dont really remember one way or the other and who no matter what just cant crack the Peyton Manning level, the Jay Cutler's, Alex Smith's, Andy Dalton's of the world. Nothing wrong with being Alex Smith, but nobody goes into medical school thinking theyll be Alex Smith or more importantly being excited at the idea of being Alex Smith. Alex Smith still gets paid and still gets to put on a jersey(ie be a doctor), but if everybody realized coming in they are 10X more likely to be Alex Smith than Peyton Manning, it'd help with the transition to medical school.
 
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So the secret is to be Tom Brady. Sixth round medical school draft pick = 4x Superbowl Champion.
Except as a 6th round pick you might be kind of lucky to get into med school in the first place these days, and Brady's career only took off because a Jet defender destroyed Drew Bledsoe. But your point that he was presumably humbled by every team passing on him at least 5 times is a good one.
 
Careful now, you've published a surprising amount of personal data on your account, it wouldn't be that hard for an adcom to identify you honestly. You are not as anonymous as you think.
All of my comments have been light-hearted, opinions (I guess they came off kind of strong), and conversational. I never engaged on any personal attacks on anyone. I never argued with anyone on this site.

If people cannot handle opinions or light-hearted conversation, I will stop posting on this account.
 
... nobody goes into medical school thinking theyll be Alex Smith...
While I like the bumper sticker quality of the above statement I think you picked a guy still in the top 50% of QBs, so that's not quite the right analogy. It would be better if you said nobody goes into med school thinking they will be Mark Sanchez, or Colt McCoy etc.
 
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OP, let's not forget cardiothoracic surgery, here. Unpopular as it may be in recent years, I'd have to assume the same "gunner" attitude could be observed in pre-CT med students.

Only difference is that ortho and derm have great schedules, CT doesn't. :rofl:
 
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