are rads residencies impossible to get?

[the gambler]

i was just wondering if you have to be top of your class and have great usmle scores to get any radiology residency at all, or if being say top 15 or 20% will do? what should i do early to help my chances of getting one? i am starting at louisville in august.

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[Diogenes]

Well, if you want my advice, here it is:

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Its definitely not required to be the top of your class to get into a radiology residency (assuming you are at a US MD school and not foreign or DO). Being in the top half of your class should get you a spot as long as your boards are good, you interview well, and you apply wisely. Being in the top 20% of the class with board scores to match and good clinical grades will get probably get you into a good University program.

Don't get me wrong, it is still possible not to match with a top 20% position if you do apply to too many programs that are out of your reach and not enough that you are competitive at.

 

[TysonCook]

My brother is a fourth year and applying right now for residency in radiology.

His Board I was 239, but he was in the second half of his class (40th-60th%) in grades. He is not at a "big name" school.

He has 15 interviews at places/branches of Harvard, Cleveland Clinic, Columbia, Brown, etc. Applied to 20.

Who knows. Board scores are a biggie, and then after that it seems like letters, grades, and school name matter?

He is stressed out, but I guess it is like applying to medical school. You will fit somewhere, and if you have the desire, grades, and competency, you will get in somewhere. In the worse case scenario he says that he will take the scramble or a year inbetween, but overall he thinks that he is a competitive app. Overall, I would say that it is a competitive residency.

 

[bat21]

Are you a physician? You must be very close to register for this forum and assessing his chances.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

My cousin "Robocop" (an alias) finished in the bottom 1/3 of his class, graduated from a ranked (but not very highly) med school with a 216 on Step I. He did slightly above average his clinical years. He did not do any rads research until the last minute... so he didn't get to put the "research" on his ERAS app...He applied to ~30 programs... mostly middle to lower tier programs. He got about 10 interviews and matched at his 7th choice (a smaller university program). He is doing his prelim year in Hawaii and e-mails me that he is surfing a lot.

This just goes to show that you don't have to be a stud on paper to get a spot. It might not be at Harvard, but then if all you care about is getting some rads spot then there you go....

 

[jon_jon]

There are a lot of differences among radiology programs, but in general, I believe most programs place a heavy emphasis on board scores. After all, it's the most objective way programs compare applicants. Obviously there is more to being a good radiology resident than scores.

I know some people take a year off to research and that can be helpful with the applications as well.

 

[ApacheIndian]

Originally posted by Celiac Plexus
My cousin "Robocop" (an alias) finished in the bottom 1/3 of his class, graduated from a ranked (but not very highly) med school with a 216 on Step I. He did slightly above average his clinical years. He did not do any rads research until the last minute... so he didn't get to put the "research" on his ERAS app...He applied to ~30 programs... mostly middle to lower tier programs. He got about 10 interviews and matched at his 7th choice (a smaller university program). He is doing his prelim year in Hawaii and e-mails me that he is surfing a lot.

Incredible. He must have outstanding interview skills, right? Or is there some other "secret?" Please do tell (or ask him to tell)...

 

[Ctrhu]

My cousin "Robocop" (an alias) finished in the bottom 1/3 of his class, graduated from a ranked (but not very highly) med school with a 216 on Step I. He did slightly above average his clinical years. He did not do any rads research until the last minute... so he didn't get to put the "research" on his ERAS app...He applied to ~30 programs... mostly middle to lower tier programs. He got about 10 interviews and matched at his 7th choice (a smaller university program). He is doing his prelim year in Hawaii and e-mails me that he is surfing a lot.

This just goes to show that you don't have to be a stud on paper to get a spot. It might not be at Harvard, but then if all you care about is getting some rads spot then there you go.

Would your cousin mind naming the programs that he interviewed with and the one that he matched to?
A possible source is the listing of programs that went unfilled, which are provided to all unmatched applications on the day before the Match. This is available so that the applicants can scramble by phone at noon the day before. Unfortunately, in the case of Radiology, most programs already have back up candidates but it is worth a try. For other specialties like Pediatrics, many highly ranked programs have went unfilled because they misjudged the willingness of their applicants and went through their entire list.

 

[Jim Picotte]

Don't count on post matching into a program that doesn't fill on match day. The radiology programs have so many applicant backups and because most don't start for 16 months after the match they can sit back wait for all the inquires from desperate residents in other specialties that realize they've made a mistake. I've heard of no one getting a post match in the last two years and in fact know that the programs that didn't fill last year had absolutely no openings at all and all were called within an hour (not by me, a friend).

 

[ApacheIndian]

Originally posted by Jim Picotte
Don't count on post matching into a program that doesn't fill on match day. The radiology programs have so many applicant backups and because most don't start for 16 months after the match they can sit back wait for all the inquires from desperate residents in other specialties that realize they've made a mistake. I've heard of no one getting a post match in the last two years and in fact know that the programs that didn't fill last year had absolutely no openings at all and all were called within an hour (not by me, a friend).

Whoa... I didn't realize this. I know that there were 19 unfilled Rads spots last year, and I assumed there'd be some this year too... spots that I thought I'd try and scramble for should I [gulp] not match. Is it really this hopeless? And what do you mean by "applicant backups?" Thanks Jim...

 

[Voxel]

Those 6 or 7 spots (i forget exactly) at UTSW last year were flukes. I heard the PD didn't rank enough people and they got screwed or the people typed in the wrong info or something unusual happened. In the end this program which is pretty darn good only matched like 6 or 7 out of 13 spots. (I think a similiar thing happened with UVA surgery). I bet when you look at the match this year that UTSW will definitely fill all of their spots. As for the other programs, I'm not sure what happened exactly. So really there were probably like 6 spots or so that went unfilled. My guess is that either they didn't rank enough people on their ROL. Rads is hot enough now that even if a program does not fill or someone leaves a program that there are at least 10 people per spot who want to fill that open position.

 

[Jim Picotte]

By backups I mean most programs have dozens of hungry residents in other fields trying to get into radiology right now. If you didn't get an interview at program, or interviewed and didn't get ranked there's no reason for the radiology program to accept you post match, they have literally their pick.

Even if you do match, just for fun call all the programs that have openings on that Tuesday at noon, I guarantee they will all be filled or they program will just take their time filling...they do have 15 months to fill their slots so plenty of time to go over everyone's application. There is no scramble in radiology or other highly competitive programs.

 

[ApacheIndian]

Good info... makes sense... there's no need for PDs in Rads to "scramble" to fill their spots. Well, so much for contingency plans...

Thanks Jim

 

[2003doc]

Hi Dr. Cuts-

Glad to hear you are getting interviews...

I am a 4th year student as well and (from reading your posts) I have a ?? about ERAS that I think you could help me out with. Is it cool if I PM you?

Thanks and good luck on the interview trail,
Alicia

 

[dobonedoc]

When the market swings, and radiologists are making $120K/year doing defecography and other "less desireable" studies, will there be such a burning desire by all to spend their days reading films? Just wondering. No offense to all of the talented radiologists that work hard every day.

 

[Voxel]

The same question can be asked about orthopaedics or any other high paying field. But believe it or not there are some who would still do it and enjoy radiology! The great thing about radiology is that there will always be new imaging/interventional technology to learn and do.

Cheers!

 

[Airborne]

All:

Quick question for the residents -

From the (limited) interaction I've had thus far during 3rd year with radiology, I do find it extremely interesting - Some of the newer techniques are very, very cool (DWI, Flair, etc)... And I can see the attraction that Rads has, with novel imaging studies emerging constantly.

However, one thing that I've noticed of my peers who are Rads bound is that the vast majority of them want to specialize in IR...

With the large number of highly qualified applicants now obtaining Rads positions, what are your thoughts of what fellowship positions (like IR) will be in the future?

I say this not as a person who will likely go into Rads (as I'm quite keen on ENT) but to stimulate discussion in this rapidly desirable field and bring up points for those current Rads applicants who will all be competing simultaneously for these fellowships in the future.

Your thoughts?

Airborne

 

[NERad]

What you'll soon see is that once these same people enter they're residency the vast majority of them will no longer want to do IR. The toughest fellowships to get right now is MSK and neuro. In fact, almost half of the IR fellowships went unfilled last year. I think IR just seems sexy to the medical student who can get his hands in on some procedures. Soon the myth of patient contact, call, and endless PICC lines being fun will fade and these same students will veer away from IR.

only a MSIV but thats my two cents