Aren't y'all worried about the debt?

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CadyHeron

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I am currently a teacher getting crushed by my current student loans ($26k) and now I'm considering doing a post-bacc then medical school and probably getting in a total of 1/4 million dollars in debt. This is terrifying. All the current doctors I have spoken to went to school before the prices tripled, so we don't really know what's going to happen to our generation. I'm pretty much set to make the switch except for the financial leap. Any suggestions? How much does med school actually come out to? Is there a chance I could come out unscathed with a bunch of scholarships? I grew up very poor and was told college is the way out of poverty, but now I'm traumatized from that no longer being the reality.

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Excellent question, particularly when asked before starting premed work.

There's bad news and less bad news.

The bad news (part 1) is that when you see average student debt numbers, in the news or on med school websites, they are deflated. They average all students in the last graduating class, including those who borrowed nothing. Included are the kids whose Aunt Trudie paid the bill, and all the free ride scholarships, etc. So there's a whole lot of zero dragging the big fat six-digit number down.

The less bad news (part 1) is that if you put everything you've got into getting into your home state's public school(s), you'll minimize your debt. Out of state tuition is double-or-more instate tuition. Become very interested in the details of med school admissions in your state so that you get this right.

But then (bad news part 2) is that if you're in California, trying to get into a UC, so are vast teeming hordes of overqualified Californians. Similar in New York. You're playing musical chairs, and all the other kids are super fast, super confident runners who started taking Butt To The Chair prep courses at age 8.

Now, if you have the work ethic to figure out how to get your med school prereqs done without looking to somebody to sell you a finished product, you'll save a boatload of money (less bad news part 2). You don't have to do a formal/structured program. Look into ways to get classes done without quitting your job, for instance, such as through Berkeley Extension or Harvard Extension.

But bad news #3 is that if you have a bad GPA from undergrad, you have to do a lot more than take the prereqs before you are in the game for med school. Average MD matriculants have a cumulative GPA around 3.6. Taking more undergrad because you don't have a good GPA is more-or-less required and very inefficient. A lot of folks address GPA shortcomings, either after a bunch of undergrad or when trying to speed things up, by spending around $50k on a one year terminal masters, where you do the first year of med school to prove you can do med school. (Totally left out for now: you also need a great MCAT score, and you should find out what a DO is.)

Less bad news #3 is Many Loan Repayment Acronyms. In general, your loan repayment after med school is going to be supported by a variety of programs, IBR, PAYE, PSLF and whatever else comes along. In short, after a minimum of a decade of income sensitive payments on your loans, you start getting out from under, and in some cases, you get your balance forgiven.

But bad news #4a is that you can only get loan repayment programs for federal loans. Don't get excited about a low interest rate on a private loan without taking the time to really understand what the repayment requirements are during 7+ years of medical training, and how interest accrues and capitalizes.

Bad news #4b is that the guvmint hasn't quite figured out that med school students with over $250k in loans are using these programs which never had that kind of debt in mind. There's been movement to limit forgiveness to the Stafford limit of $57k. Nobody knows if this kind of change is likely, and if you haven't noticed, the guvmint doesn't enact a whole lot of anything lately.

And bad news #4c is Forgivageddon (credit to sazerac). You have to pay taxes on forgiven loan amounts.

Presumably that's enough to digest for now. When hungry for more, get over to finaid.org and get educated.

Best of luck to you.
 
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I started typing this before DrMidlife got to it. To me, without a doubt, it's scary. I would say that 1/4 mil is optimistic. As DrMidlife mentioned, if you don't have a good GPA, you're probably headed DO, which tends to be more expensive than IS MD. Like 45-50K tuition alone, with total CoA around 60-70K. That would put it around 400-450K by PGY-3 assuming interest accumulates from day 1. This is for the average DO school. On the expensive side, CCOM is approaching 60K in tuition alone, as of now. Add 5% per year on top. If IBR, ICR, PAYE, etc remain when you and I need it, then all we need to do is prepare for is Forgivageddon (per DrMidlife and credit to sazerac).

Regardless of all these considerations, I've spent a bit of time doing financial modeling of my situation and even though I'm older than most non-trads and have run very conservative numbers, I still find that this path is financially viable. But only barely. This is partly because my income potential right now is lower than most who are my age (40-50K per year gross). Also, no McMansions or Ferraris exist in my future. All I know, based on current info, is that if I take this on and go 450K in the hole with conservative rate of return on savings (less than 2%) and a conservative income projection based on a non-competitive specialty such as FM or Psych (assume 180K per year), I would still be better off financially than my current gig.

I should add that my assumption also requires aggressive loan payments that don't rely on IBR etc, and acceptance of a middle class lifestyle. If that is OK with you, then it may be possible.
 
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The less bad news (part 1) is that if you put everything you've got into getting into your home state's public school(s), you'll minimize your debt. Out of state tuition is double-or-more instate tuition. Become very interested in the details of med school admissions in your state so that you get this right.

But then (bad news part 2) is that if you're in California, trying to get into a UC, so are vast teeming hordes of overqualified Californians. Similar in New York. You're playing musical chairs, and all the other kids are super fast, super confident runners who started taking Butt To The Chair prep courses at age 8.

Now, if you have the work ethic to figure out how to get your med school prereqs done without looking to somebody to sell you a finished product, you'll save a boatload of money (less bad news part 2). You don't have to do a formal/structured program. Look into ways to get classes done without quitting your job, for instance, such as through Berkeley Extension or Harvard Extension.

But bad news #3 is that if you have a bad GPA from undergrad, you have to do a lot more than take the prereqs before you are in the game for med school. Average MD matriculants have a cumulative GPA around 3.6. Taking more undergrad because you don't have a good GPA is more-or-less required and very inefficient. A lot of folks address GPA shortcomings, either after a bunch of undergrad or when trying to speed things up, by spending around $50k on a one year terminal masters, where you do the first year of med school to prove you can do med school. (Totally left out for now: you also need a great MCAT score, and you should find out what a DO is.)
Well of course I live in NY, lol. But for my undergrad I made a huge mistake in going to a state school. There were barely any scholarships available and had I gone private, I probably could have graduated debt-free. As First-generation college student, I didn't know what to look for beyond sticker price. Is it similar for medschools that in state is frequently more expensive than private for poor folks because of available funds? Also, how much does school name matter in the long run? Do you think it is advantageous to go for a better school for a better salary?

I think I might be better off getting a pre-packaged post bac program since I took 0 science classes in college my GPA doesn't reflect anything about how I would do in medschool. Plus it is low (3.4). Does that make sense? Then I could say I got a 4.0 (ha) in my post bac and kind of downplay the previous degree.

Lastly, I'm surprisingly unworried about the MCAT. I'm lucky in that tests are easy for me. This will probably be the first one in my entire life I'll study for.
 
Ok on a more serious note. I am actually going to expand on upon the military path simply because you uttered something near and dear to me...

I grew up very poor and was told college is the way out of poverty, but now I'm traumatized from that no longer being the reality.

A few years ago I asked a professor emeritus of emergency medicine (also a retired military physician) for his advice on whether I should join the military to pay for medical school. He was very laconic and the conversation went something like this:

"Dr. Bob Loblaw should I join the military?"
"Are you poor?"
"Yes."
"Then you should join the military."

Now you must NOT EVER join the military simply for the money because all you are doing is trading financial bondage for literal bondage. The military bureaucracy is infamous for crushing your spirit and ... well there is a ton and a half of threads detailing the cons over at the military medicine sub-forum here. So should you consider the military? Ah here's a great quote from a SDN military medicine veteran that highlights the main reason:

Serve only if you believe in the cause. The cause is noble, but the military bureaucracy will devour your soul. The cause will be your only solace when the things forewarned of above have come to pass.

IF AND ONLY IF you believe in the cause and you are poor would I recommend this path.

We have nowhere else to go, we have nothing else. The military ever since the days of antiquity allowed peasants such as you and I to rise into the upper strata of society and in this small case, the concept still holds true. However, your pound of flesh must be paid...

TL;DR Poorer than trailer trash and love 'Murica?!! Then consider having the military pay for your medical school.
 
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I started typing this before DrMidlife got to it. To me, without a doubt, it's scary. I would say that 1/4 mil is optimistic. As DrMidlife mentioned, if you don't have a good GPA, you're probably headed DO, which tends to be more expensive than IS MD. Like 45-50K tuition alone, with total CoA around 60-70K. That would put it around 400-450K by PGY-3 assuming interest accumulates from day 1. This is for the average DO school. On the expensive side, CCOM is approaching 60K in tuition alone, as of now. Add 5% per year on top. If IBR, ICR, PAYE, etc remain when you and I need it, then all we need to do is prepare for is Forgivageddon (per DrMidlife and credit to sazerac).

Regardless of all these considerations, I've spent a bit of time doing financial modeling of my situation and even though I'm older than most non-trads and have run very conservative numbers, I still find that this path is financially viable. But only barely. This is partly because my income potential right now is lower than most who are my age (40-50K per year gross). Also, no McMansions or Ferraris exist in my future. All I know, based on current info, is that if I take this on and go 450K in the hole with conservative rate of return on savings (less than 2%) and a conservative income projection based on a non-competitive specialty such as FM or Psych (assume 180K per year), I would still be better off financially than my current gig.

I should add that my assumption also requires aggressive loan payments that don't rely on IBR etc, and acceptance of a middle class lifestyle. If that is OK with you, then it may be possible.
Are you an accountant?
 
No. Engineer. Why?
Im a junior in accountancy and the explanation you wrote regarding the financial aspect of this post sounded like my professor.... i hate accounting though ....its a good thing your not one :)
 
I read the original post, but didn't have time to read the rest, so I'll apologize in advance...

250k... psh. I'm going to have 2 houses when I'm done, plus the med school loans, which is going to put me somewhere around 820k that I owe when I'm done. School and med school will be somewhere around 350k. It's house. You're going to make a minimum of around 200k depending on what you do, and before you say not all specialties pay that much, tell that to my FM friends making 300k. You will be fine. Does it scare me? The only thing that scares me would be the off chance that I didn't graduate. Then I'd be F'ing terrified.
 
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I read the original post, but didn't have time to read the rest, so I'll apologize in advance...

250k... psh. I'm going to have 2 houses when I'm done, plus the med school loans, which is going to put me somewhere around 820k that I owe when I'm done. School and med school will be somewhere around 350k. It's house. You're going to make a minimum of around 200k depending on what you do, and before you say not all specialties pay that much, tell that to my FM friends making 300k. You will be fine. Does it scare me? The only thing that scares me would be the off chance that I didn't graduate. Then I'd be F'ing terrified.

:wow:

and

:eek:. You are a much braver soul than I could ever be in my lifetime.
 
I thought about doing the military thing, A D.O I shadowed talked me out of it. He said it wasn't worth it in the end because he wasn't committed to the cause.
 
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The military thing is worth it if you can be in the military. If you are able to be in the military it helps a lot!! I know a doc who went through the HPSP way and now he has 90 rental houses and medicine is 'for fun'...
 
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The debt is a really unsavory thought, but if you feel like you could be willing to live like a resident several years into attending status, you can avoid 6 figures of interest. Especially if you're a single income, living like a resident will be tight. But many doctors have told me that they kept a similar budget until they had their loans paid off. Don't get caught paying 30 years of interest if at all possible.
 
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I read the original post, but didn't have time to read the rest, so I'll apologize in advance...

250k... psh. I'm going to have 2 houses when I'm done, plus the med school loans, which is going to put me somewhere around 820k that I owe when I'm done. School and med school will be somewhere around 350k. It's house. You're going to make a minimum of around 200k depending on what you do, and before you say not all specialties pay that much, tell that to my FM friends making 300k. You will be fine. Does it scare me? The only thing that scares me would be the off chance that I didn't graduate. Then I'd be F'ing terrified.
I hear such conflicting numbers regarding FM comp, which makes it either a totally logical thing for me to do, or completely idiotic to give up a salary that's not that insanely far off. What geographic areas are they in?
 
Minneapolis and mountain states. If you can tolerate TX or KS you can make F-tons of money. I've seen stuff come through that are in the 450-500k range for FM docs. I assume that means your whole life is given up, and you work your arse off, but regardless, the money is there if you want it. Even for my friends working pretty cushy jobs they're making around 200k, that is still plenty of money to pay off debt and do what you want to do. If you made less than 150k it's because you chose to be in a place that pays less. @cabinbuilder does locums work and she does well. There are plenty of ways to have FM pay you decently.
 
Yes, I do very well but I put in the hours to make that happen and have no life on a job site. How I approached my debt was to pay off the oldest bills first, then the smallest bills so you get away from writing 20 checks a month. Keep your credit cards paid every month and don't carry a balance if you can swing it. Now I am one year into my debt free in 3 plan and am tackling the large bills now. You just have to break it up along the way so the goal seems more doable and don't forget to take a break and have some fun too.
 
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...Even for my friends working pretty cushy jobs they're making around 200k...
This is encouraging to know. Being able to repay loans for a CoA of 70-75K a year requires, in my mind, a 200K income to do so comfortably.
 
If you can tolerate TX or KS you can make F-tons of money....

Ahem..."tolerate" Kansas? It is amazing out here and us Kansan's feel sorry for people living in areas where studio apartments cost $1000 per month (whereas my 2,500 ft^2 house is $1,200 a month); we also have salt of the earth people out here. Not much about Kansas is intolerable except the weather extremes.

Now that I have that out of the way. My wife is a FM doc on faculty at one of the teaching hospitals in our city and makes $180,000 on a 4-day work week. One of her former colleagues left to be the medical director at an ER about 45 mins away. He works 12 shifts a month and makes $400,000. Combine these salaries with our ridiculously low cost of living (add some broth and a potato) and, baby, you got a stew goin'!
 
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Ahem..."tolerate" Kansas? It is amazing out here and us Kansan's feel sorry for people living in areas where studio apartments cost $1000 per month (whereas my 2,500 ft^2 house is $1,200 a month); we also have salt of the earth people out here. Not much about Kansas is intolerable except the weather extremes.

Now that I have that out of the way. My wife is a FM doc on faculty at one of the teaching hospitals in our city and makes $180,000 on a 4-day work week. One of her former colleagues left to be the medical director at an ER about 45 mins away. He works 12 shifts a month and makes $400,000. Combine these salaries with our ridiculously low cost of living (add some broth and a potato) and, baby, you got a stew goin'!
I hope that people will continue to look down on the midwest so that I may go there and reap the rewards. I say that as someone who was raised in So-Cal so I know all about the "OMG I can't leave California!" mentality.
 
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I hope that people will continue to look down on the midwest so that I may go there and reap the rewards. I say that as someone who was raised in So-Cal so I know all about the "OMG I can't leave California!" mentality.

Yes! I was raised in Kansas but also lived in So Cal. It didn't take long before I was desperate to get back to the Midwest, and I'll never leave here again if I can help it.
 
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You also have a super-douchy governor and the political climate in the state is one I couldn't tolerate for very long. I'm a lefty/liberal, and I'm very pro-LGBT. So yes, for many people tolerate is the correct word. Btw, if you didn't know, Kansas is almost bankrupt as a state... yall's got no money coming in... The midwest is great, but I'd take Minnewiowanois over KS/MO/OK... I was actually told by a resident from OK that he supports not treating LGBT people because he wants to take the moral highground...
 
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You also have a super-douchy governor and the political climate in the state is one I couldn't tolerate for very long. I'm a lefty/liberal, and I'm very pro-LGBT. So yes, for many people tolerate is the correct word. Btw, if you didn't know, Kansas is almost bankrupt as a state... yall's got no money coming in... The midwest is great, but I'd take Minnewiowanois over KS/MO/OK... I was actually told by a resident from OK that he supports not treating LGBT people because he wants to take the moral highground...

Cool story.
 
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Let it go.

You have selectively chosen things to believe about a place that conveniently fit and affirm your worldview (confirmation bias). You look foolish doing it and have no idea what you're talking about. Your sources are far from reputable, and they effectively reveal the limited extent of your critical thinking about the this (and, likely, many other things)--and your logic is just so godawful.

This thread is not about Kansas specifically. I responded to you being inflammatory, and realize now that I was throwing fuel on a fire that would rage out of control and consume everyone in its path (this is why I edited my post above).

Kansas is an amazing place, but it's not for everyone.
 
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I'm much older than ave student and hopefully apply this cycle. Figure I will get enough to put down on a house by the time I'm 50. I'm gonna be 50 anyway, why not be 50 and in a profession I'm seeking rather than another area where I was working with no growth. I know some 50 y/o who get divorced and live in an apartment. I didn't know about the paying taxes on repayment plans from the fed guvmint tho. I also considered living in a tent and taking showers at the gym and cycling to work after residency. I could have a PO box and a cell phone and keep a suit in my car, assuming my car is also paid off and not registered. Of course, this would limit areas where I could live, like not too cold or too hot. Right on the M-D line, I suppose. Isn't that KS? What's wrong with that?
 
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The United States is great anywhere you live. The thing with debt is that you have to own it and work at getting it down. Sometimes that means thinking outside the box and living where it's not ideal. I live in Oregon which doesn't suit me but it suits my family so they stay and I'm off doing locums paying our debt down. This too shall pass and sometimes getting out there and really seeing the possibilities can be an adventure too.

I had misgivings when I moved to Texas fore residency. OMG THE SOUTH? Where there's bigotry and they are mean to non-white people!!! I was fearful of the unknown. But it turned out the be the greatest experience with the nicest folks, and everyone has manners. Just so far from the picture in my mind.
 
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I had misgivings when I moved to Texas fore residency. OMG THE SOUTH? Where there's bigotry and they are mean to non-white people!!! I was fearful of the unknown. But it turned out the be the greatest experience with the nicest folks, and everyone has manners. Just so far from the picture in my mind.

LOL at how you viewed the South before living there. I guess it's easy for anyone to have such incongruent perceptions of a place without having lived there. For instance, before I moved to LA I imagined it would be a really progressive place--a sort of leftist utopia (though that's an oxymoron in my mind, I was eager to see what that might look like were it to exist). Of all the places I've ever lived, LA was the most bigoted and racist; you don't find that intensity of racism and bigotry many other places (I think a major reason the movie Crash is so poignant is because it is so accurate).

Moral of the story: don't write a place off because of how you perceive it to be without having spent a meaningful amount of time there. Keep an open mind since chances are you will be surprised.
 
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I'm much older than ave student and hopefully apply this cycle. Figure I will get enough to put down on a house by the time I'm 50. I'm gonna be 50 anyway, why not be 50 and in a profession I'm seeking rather than another area where I was working with no growth. I know some 50 y/o who get divorced and live in an apartment. I didn't know about the paying taxes on repayment plans from the fed guvmint tho. I also considered living in a tent and taking showers at the gym and cycling to work after residency. I could have a PO box and a cell phone and keep a suit in my car, assuming my car is also paid off and not registered. Of course, this would limit areas where I could live, like not too cold or too hot. Right on the M-D line, I suppose. Isn't that KS? What's wrong with that?

I thought about doing all this during undergrad and my gap years lol. Who the heck needs to pay rent?? Then I read it was illegal to sleep in your car in some states , that's insane.I'd still do it whatever!
 
Let it go.

You have selectively chosen things to believe about a place that conveniently fit and affirm your worldview (confirmation bias). You look foolish doing it and have no idea what you're talking about. Your sources are far from reputable, and they effectively reveal the limited extent of your critical thinking about the this (and, likely, many other things)--and your logic is just so godawful.

This thread is not about Kansas specifically. I responded to you being inflammatory, and realize now that I was throwing fuel on a fire that would rage out of control and consume everyone in its path (this is why I edited my post above).

Kansas is an amazing place, but it's not for everyone.

Cool story bro...
 
I'm much older than ave student and hopefully apply this cycle. Figure I will get enough to put down on a house by the time I'm 50. I'm gonna be 50 anyway, why not be 50 and in a profession I'm seeking rather than another area where I was working with no growth. I know some 50 y/o who get divorced and live in an apartment. I didn't know about the paying taxes on repayment plans from the fed guvmint tho. I also considered living in a tent and taking showers at the gym and cycling to work after residency. I could have a PO box and a cell phone and keep a suit in my car, assuming my car is also paid off and not registered. Of course, this would limit areas where I could live, like not too cold or too hot. Right on the M-D line, I suppose. Isn't that KS? What's wrong with that?
Ugh, I did all of that when I was younger. I want to be debt free at 50, then I can work on retirement savings.
 
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LOL at how you viewed the South before living there. I guess it's easy for anyone to have such incongruent perceptions of a place without having lived there. For instance, before I moved to LA I imagined it would be a really progressive place--a sort of leftist utopia (though that's an oxymoron in my mind, I was eager to see what that might look like were it to exist). Of all the places I've ever lived, LA was the most bigoted and racist; you don't find that intensity of racism and bigotry many other places (I think a major reason the movie Crash is so poignant is because it is so accurate).

Moral of the story: don't write a place off because of how you perceive it to be without having spent a meaningful amount of time there. Keep an open mind since chances are you will be surprised.
I've lived in ten cities in six states (plus worked for a month or more in a few others), and I can tell you without a doubt that racism and bigotry exist everywhere: North and South, East and West, rural and urban and suburban. More educated people will just be more subtle about how they express their bigotry, that's all. As my grandpa used to say, you can put earrings on a pig, but it's still a pig. Bigotry is still bigotry, no matter how politely it's dished out.

I grew up in the South, and I would choose living in the South (for the weather, the low COL, and the down-home values) over any other region of the country. Ironically, rural Southern poverty is a great equalizer; there's a reason why mixed race relationships are so common here. Though according to Thomas Stanley (of "The Millionaire Next Door" fame), the South and Midwest have the highest percentages of millionaires (of the blue collar type in particular). He attributes that to the cheaper COL and greater frugality ethos of these regions.

I am currently a teacher getting crushed by my current student loans ($26k) and now I'm considering doing a post-bacc then medical school and probably getting in a total of 1/4 million dollars in debt. This is terrifying. All the current doctors I have spoken to went to school before the prices tripled, so we don't really know what's going to happen to our generation. I'm pretty much set to make the switch except for the financial leap. Any suggestions? How much does med school actually come out to? Is there a chance I could come out unscathed with a bunch of scholarships? I grew up very poor and was told college is the way out of poverty, but now I'm traumatized from that no longer being the reality.
As for the OP, my advice to you is to do the following:

1) Read one or two of Stanley's books if you haven't already. Understanding why some people have plenty of money while others struggle is essential if you want to avoid falling into the latter category. Since you're already drowning in debt, consider checking out Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover. I'll gladly quibble with his investing advice, but his plan for getting people out of debt is sound. If you're a church-goer, you could also see if your church offers one of his Financial Peace classes. But don't even think of starting med school until you get out of the financial hole you're already in.

2) Seek out the best value for your money when it comes to med school, and minimize how much money you need to borrow. You will pay back every dollar you take out in loans twice or even thrice over. So if you have a choice, and if minimizing your loans means attending a state school instead of a fancy private school, then do it. I wound up getting lucky in that my top choice school also gave me a full ride. But if they hadn't, would I have gone elsewhere to save money? You better believe it.

3) Frugality is the key to living below your means regardless of what you decide about med school. It's both possible and common for physicians and others with six figure incomes to be living paycheck to paycheck because they can't get control over their spending. Commit now to spending much less than you earn. And while you're in school and residency, don't live like you're an attending. Heck, even once you become an attending, don't start living like one right away. If you make saving money and paying off debt a priority, if you treat getting out of debt like your life depends on it (because in a sense it does), there is no reason why you can't save half your income or more and pay off your loans in a reasonable time frame. Especially if you worked hard to keep the amount you have to borrow to a bare minimum.
 
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You lived in a tent? How did that go?
It sucked and I cried everyday. I lived in a tent, a cabin, my car for awhile, in a shack on the tundra, and in a house underconstruction without running water for 5 years. I'm sorry, but when I'm 50 I'm just not ok with doing that again to pay my student loans.
 
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It sucked and I cried everyday. I lived in a tent, a cabin, my car for awhile, in a shack on the tundra, and in a house undercontruction without running water for 5 years. I'm sorry, but when I'm 50 I'm just not ok with doing that again to pay my student loans.
You are awesome, cabinbuilder
 
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I don't know anyone that went to med school debt free. In fact, I'd imagine that it's almost impossible for many med students to achieve that goal.
 
I don't know anyone that went to med school debt free. In fact, I'd imagine that it's almost impossible for many med students to achieve that goal.
I did it (full scholarship + part time work + paid research year). But you're right, it's almost impossible. To say that I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time is beyond an understatement. No one should expect to get through med school sans loans unless they can already afford to pay for it out of pocket.
 
I don't know anyone that went to med school debt free. In fact, I'd imagine that it's almost impossible for many med students to achieve that goal.
If you look at the AAMC stats, an obnoxiously high percentage of med students, like more than 20%, graduate with zero debt.

Some get full scholarships, some are MD/PhD, a lot get money from their parents, and since this is the non-trad forum, a few of us did have successful first careers.
 
i've been completely stunned by how many of my classmates are getting a free ride from mom & dad. not just tuition. not just rent. smartphone, health insurance, nice car, car insurance, clothes etc.

which explains how baffled my classmates are by patients who have trouble coming up with $300 for a prescription.
 
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"blaming" a person for getting a free-ride by their parents is the same as blaming a person for growing up poor. Any person would gladly accept the opportunity to be debt free.
 
i have no problem with lack of debt. i have some wealthy classmates who have lots of compassion. but i do have a problem with entitlement and ignorance in those born on third base. it's not at all the same as being anti-poor in my opinion.
 
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"blaming" a person for getting a free-ride by their parents is the same as blaming a person for growing up poor. Any person would gladly accept the opportunity to be debt free.

Actually it's not the same as poor people rarely have "entitlement" issues.
 
i've been completely stunned by how many of my classmates are getting a free ride from mom & dad. not just tuition. not just rent. smartphone, health insurance, nice car, car insurance, clothes etc..

I'm not surprised at all, the majority of folks accepted to med school have parents with either an MD or PhD.
 
You must be a rethuglican.

False. I've worked among the poor for a decade and, by and large, there is a tremendous problem with entitlement among them. I think wealthier people have the same problem, as feelings of entitlement characterize people wherever they are on the socioeconomic spectrum.

Thanks for your academic classification of my political views based upon my single-word reply, though. You and @dorothyntoto should hang out if your bubble has room for one more.
 
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Actually it's not the same as poor people rarely have "entitlement" issues.
Interesting to note your comment. You may change your mind when doing a peds clinic rotation where the mom states she wants Tylenol written as a script because "she can't afford it (Medicaid will pay for it) yet there is no problem having nails done, cell phone, heels, coach bag, etc. It's sickening.
 
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Interesting to note your comment. You may change your mind when doing a peds clinic rotation where the mom states she want Tylenol written as a script because "she can't afford it (Medicaid will pay for it) yet there is not problem having nails done, cell phone, heels, coach bag, etc. It's sickening.

Exactly. I was always floored by the, "Who's gonna pay for this," question re: meds when checking people out of my clinic or following up with them after they've received care. It was always so amazing to me that the question was framed that way, as if the expectation was that someone else was supposed to pay for it.

For those who were truly choosing between eating dinner or affording rx, I was always happy to help. For many others, I would sit there thinking, "Put your g.d. smart phone down--candy crush can wait--and consider this novel concept: how's about you pay for it."

No entitlement issues among the poor? Only in the minds of those who've never worked among the poor.
 
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