Argosy Dallas PsyD?

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The program is in Teach Out mode so it will be no more. However, the other programs are thriving such as MA and EdD Counseling, MA in forensic psychology and MA in Industrial Psychology and some of these students apply to the 10 APA accredited PsyD Argosy programs to complete the PsyD.
These types schools, and I use the term loosely, offer these types of programs to take advantage of students naivete more than anything. These are not the types of degrees that lead most people to increased employment opportunities or increased rates of acceptance into more reputable doctoral programs. Students going from an MA in Forensic Psychology degree to an Argosy PsyD, even if accredited, end up with even more debt, and mo' money for the company that calls itself a school. I really do think it is all about the money, but maybe not?
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An MA in "forensic psychology" is not practice or licenseable degree, is it? What skillset does this provide and where does one apply it?
 
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An MA in "forensic psychology" is not practice or licenseable degree, is it? What skillset does this provide and where does one apply it?
i'm not sure how the USA system works, but why wouldn't it be in Masters level states? (ones that have Masters level Psychologists)
 
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i'm not sure how the USA system works, but why wouldn't it be in Masters level states? (ones that have Masters level Psychologists)

"forensic psychology" is simply the application of psychology to the legal system, and often to criminal behavior. The clinical application of forensic psychology would require standard, and broad, clinical training.
 
"forensic psychology" is simply the application of psychology to the legal system, and often to criminal behavior. The clinical application of forensic psychology would require standard, and broad, clinical training.
I know John Jay graduates (of their Masters Forensic Psychology programs) who came back to Canada with that degree and were able to license themselves as Psychologists. They do have a clinical component to that program.
 
I know John Jay graduates (of their Masters Forensic Psychology programs) who came back to Canada with that degree and were able to license themselves as Psychologists. They do have a clinical component to that program.

To me, thats a masters in clinical psychology with emphasis on forensic issues/settings then.
 
To me, thats a masters in clinical psychology with emphasis on forensic issues/settings then.

but would fieldwork of some kind qualify as "clinical"?

Let me explain the Canadian situation when it comes to regulation, and then maybe you guys can clarify the rules for USA. (because I think it is quite different)

In my province anyways, and I'm aware of others with similar rules, the only real regulated health professionals that deal with assessment/therapy are Psychologists and Psychiatrists. (some provinces allow Masters level Psychologists). Otherwise, the rest of the folks who have BA's, or even Masters, call themselves psychotherapists/counselors/therapists, as these titles are unregulated. As a result of this, they can't take insurance so it is not something that can really be all that profitable for most part. The folks who have Masters, and live in a province that does allow Masters level Psych's, but aren't licensed as Psychologists could be for a number of reasons...their Masters didn't cover core courses that the College requires, they don't have enough Psychology courses (undergrad/grad school, they didn't take it at an accredited institution, etc

Assuming you did your Masters at an accredited institution, that you did the core courses needed, (took at least one course in ethics, assessment/evaluation etc), you apply for a "Provisional license". You usually outline your plans for supervised practice in this application. As long as I know, your grad degree does not require any practicum/clinical hours outside the courses.

But only after you complete your supervised practice requirement, (usually one year post-masters), you complete the EPPP, oral examination), can you become a Full Practicing Member.
 
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Because I don't believe the first part of the sentence.

Well... I have no control about what you do or don't believe but why would I lie? The program is closing.

We are real people with thought and feelings and I will miss the faculty and students I met and knew in the program.

I got what I needed from the training and most of us who finished are licensed psychologist having success.

It behoves me why others have concerns about Argosy-Dallas when you aren't from the program and you have no or limited knowledge about the people from The Texas School of Professional Psychology.

Clearly seems irrational for others who have nothing to do with the programs to post such ignorance about the people involved with Argosy - Dallas! Seems to say more about yourself rather than the program!!!
 
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It behoves me why others have concerns about Argosy-Dallas when you aren't from the program and you have no or limited knowledge about the people from The Texas School of Professional Psychology.

Maybe because it impacts the field as a whole?
 
It behoves me why others have concerns about Argosy-Dallas when you aren't from the program and you have no or limited knowledge about the people from The Texas School of Professional Psychology.

Clearly seems irrational for others who have nothing to do with the programs to post such ignorance about the people involved with Argosy - Dallas! Seems to say more about yourself rather than the program!!!

That's just it, though. We do have data about that program. The mandatory APPIC data. And it contradicts pretty much everything you've said.
 
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It behoves me why others have concerns about Argosy-Dallas when you aren't from the program and you have no or limited knowledge about the people from The Texas School of Professional Psychology.

Because I care about the quality of product that is injected into this field/profession.

It impacts myself, my students, my interns, my work, perception of the field by others, my salary. Is that enough of reason?
 
Because I care about the quality of product that is injected into this field/profession.

It impacts myself, my students, my interns, my work, perception of the field by others, my salary. Is that enough of reason?
Why the hostility? He clearly says it BEHOOVES him that you have concerns. This man has graciously acknowledged the value your concern provides, and this is the treatment he gets.
 
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Why the hostility? He clearly says it BEHOOVES him that you have concerns. This man has graciously acknowledged the value your concern provides, and this is the treatment he gets.

Context.

It was clearly a typo or he didn't understand the definition of behoove.
 
The correct usage of the word would be along the lines of: "As a psychologist, it behooves me to point out the questionable practices of institutions that use deceptive practices in my field."
 
"Behove and behoove

Pronounced /bɪˈhuːv/Help with pronunciation

A columnist in my daily paper recently wrote, “My dear Britain, it behoves me to inform you that first, I don’t exactly know what the word “behoves” means, but I do enjoy using it.” It behoves me to make good this deficiency by explaining that it expresses a duty and may be translated as “is required of” or “is incumbent upon”.
When James Murray wrote the definition for the word in what was then The New English Dictionary on Historical Principles (only much later the Oxford English Dictionary) he described it as “mainly a literary word”. Some modern stylists have called it archaic or a fossil, but it’s some way from that, though almost always in writing and very rarely in the spoken language. It is a little better known in the US, where the behoove spelling is standard. British pundits and politicians feel that the occasional behove adds a statesmanlike and elevated air to their utterances, though they risk sounding old-fashioned and pompous.
The origin is Old English behōfian, from bihōf, utility, whose adjective is bihóflíc, useful or necessary. The main sense of the verb was need or necessity.
It’s one of those few expressions in modern English that is almost always impersonal. You or I, or even they, do not generally behove. The empty agent it is usually in charge of the verb. Behove can also appear with negative sense, for which a common marker word in the UK is ill. Ill behoves implies acting inappropriately or improperly, as in this editorial pronouncement from a Sunday newspaper:
In an age of genuine austerity, it ill behoves those who have enough cash to eat as they wish to stand in judgment on those who do not.
The Observer, 10 Feb. 2013.

Americans use this form only rarely, but use behoove with a wider range of modifying words, such as would, might and certainly."


I was using at similar to "befuddle" or "Surprised"

It is one of the misused words here in America. Two of the Argosy -Dallas faculty members used the word commonly to express "I'm surprised of your thought processes" as a way of getting you to use or develop skills of Metacognition.
 
"Behove and behoove

Pronounced /bɪˈhuːv/Help with pronunciation

A columnist in my daily paper recently wrote, “My dear Britain, it behoves me to inform you that first, I don’t exactly know what the word “behoves” means, but I do enjoy using it.” It behoves me to make good this deficiency by explaining that it expresses a duty and may be translated as “is required of” or “is incumbent upon”.
When James Murray wrote the definition for the word in what was then The New English Dictionary on Historical Principles (only much later the Oxford English Dictionary) he described it as “mainly a literary word”. Some modern stylists have called it archaic or a fossil, but it’s some way from that, though almost always in writing and very rarely in the spoken language. It is a little better known in the US, where the behoove spelling is standard. British pundits and politicians feel that the occasional behove adds a statesmanlike and elevated air to their utterances, though they risk sounding old-fashioned and pompous.
The origin is Old English behōfian, from bihōf, utility, whose adjective is bihóflíc, useful or necessary. The main sense of the verb was need or necessity.
It’s one of those few expressions in modern English that is almost always impersonal. You or I, or even they, do not generally behove. The empty agent it is usually in charge of the verb. Behove can also appear with negative sense, for which a common marker word in the UK is ill. Ill behoves implies acting inappropriately or improperly, as in this editorial pronouncement from a Sunday newspaper:
In an age of genuine austerity, it ill behoves those who have enough cash to eat as they wish to stand in judgment on those who do not.
The Observer, 10 Feb. 2013.

Americans use this form only rarely, but use behoove with a wider range of modifying words, such as would, might and certainly."


I was using at similar to "befuddle" or "Surprised"

It is one of the misused words here in America. Two of the Argosy -Dallas faculty members used the word commonly to express "I'm surprised of your thought processes" as a way of getting you to use or develop skills of Metacognition.

You addressed nothing of any actual relevance to this thread, or to your original comment. Good work.
 
Here... have changed it to befuddle!

Well... I have no control about what you do or don't believe but why would I lie? The program is closing.

We are real people with thought and feelings and I will miss the faculty and students I met and knew in the program.

I got what I needed from the training and most of us who finished are licensed psychologist having success.

It befuddles me why others have concerns about Argosy-Dallas when you aren't from the program and you have no or limited knowledge about the people from The Texas School of Professional Psychology.

Clearly seems irrational for others who have nothing to do with the programs to post such ignorance about the people involved with Argosy - Dallas! Seems to say more about yourself rather than the program!!!
 
Here... have changed it to befuddle!

Well... I have no control about what you do or don't believe but why would I lie? The program is closing.

We are real people with thought and feelings and I will miss the faculty and students I met and knew in the program.

I got what I needed from the training and most of us who finished are licensed psychologist having success.

It befuddles me why others have concerns about Argosy-Dallas when you aren't from the program and you have no or limited knowledge about the people from The Texas School of Professional Psychology.

Clearly seems irrational for others who have nothing to do with the programs to post such ignorance about the people involved with Argosy - Dallas! Seems to say more about yourself rather than the program!!!

Do you think it says we care about the integrity of the profession? That's what its seems like to most people on here.
 
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I got what I needed from the training and most of us who finished are licensed psychologist having success.

It befuddles me why others have concerns about Argosy-Dallas when you aren't from the program and you have no or limited knowledge about the people from The Texas School of Professional Psychology.

I don't really care if you "got what you needed from the training", as I'm more concerned with the ability for all graduates of the program to practice to at least a minimum level of competency. Given that all metrics associated with the program have been quite poor (match rate, EPPP pass rate, etc), I believe there is cause for concern. As a profession we should all care about the quality and quantity of students going in and coming out from programs because it has a DIRECT effect on us.
 
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I don't really care if you "got what you needed from the training", as I'm more concerned with the ability for all graduates of the program to practice to at least a minimum level of competency. Given that all metrics associated with the program have been quite poor (match rate, EPPP pass rate, etc), I believe there is cause for concern. As a profession we should all care about the quality and quantity of students going in and coming out from programs because it has a DIRECT effect on us.

We at Argosy -Dallas TSPP also care about the quality and standards of psychology. With all of the negative publicity from the TV, Internet, and newspapers, we have had to go above and beyond the normal scrutiny of anyone with doctoral training in psychology.

I had to go through two APPIC matches before matching with an APA accredited site. The program is closing but for those of us who continued and endured through the ongoing turmoil since the Negative information from the television and the lawsuit, we deserve accolades and we are proud to be licensed psychologist accepted by APA and our State Psychologist Associations of which many of us were voted into leadership roles. Only a small minority of students were disgruntled and filed a class action lawsuit. The lawyers were the only faction who prospered as the 30 students in the class action lawsuit probably were only provided a fraction of the 3,3 million settlement and the 200 or more of us students who did not participate in the lawsuit completed our degrees but we continue to be unfairly scrutinized, as is often the case here on SDN Forums.

From my perspective, I have not experienced any restrictions based on my TSPP training and quality, standards, and the overall perception of the field of psychology maintains my focus to go the extra mile to obtain these standards. I am fully licensed as a psychologist and applying for ABPP Board certification in clinical neuropsychology and rehabilitation psychology since TSPP meets the standards for ABPP due to being a ASPPB NR program.

Even after the lawsuit, Argosy-Dallas completed the self-study for ASPPB National Registry standards and obtained this standard as well as the self-study for APA site review. The program met these standards when other PhD/PsyD APA accredited programs were being put on APA accredited, On Probation. Why do we never hear negative information about programs such as the programs On Probation?

The Argosy-Dallas Texas School of Professional Psychology PsyD program is closing and all of us associated with the program have survived and moved on, so it is time for others to move on as well.

Peace!!!
 
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We at Argosy -Dallas TSPP also care about the quality and standards of psychology. With all of the negative publicity from the TV, Internet, and newspapers, we have had to go above and beyond the normal scrutiny of anyone with doctoral training in psychology.

I had to go through two APPIC matches before matching with an APA accredited site. The program is closing but for those of us who continued and endured through the ongoing turmoil since the Negative information from the television and the lawsuit, we deserve accolades and we are proud to be licensed psychologist accepted by APA and our State Psychologist Associations of which many of us were voted into leadership roles. Only a small minority of students were disgruntled and filed a class action lawsuit. The lawyers were the only faction who prospered as the 30 students in the class action lawsuit probably were only provided a fraction of the 3,3 million settlement and the 200 or more of us students who did not participate in the lawsuit completed our degrees but we continue to be unfairly scrutinized, as is often the case here on SDN Forums.

From my perspective, I have not experienced any restrictions based on my TSPP training and quality, standards, and the overall perception of the field of psychology maintains my focus to go the extra mile to obtain these standards. I am fully licensed as a psychologist and applying for ABPP Board certification in clinical neuropsychology and rehabilitation psychology since TSPP meets the standards for ABPP due to being a ASPPB NR program.

Even after the lawsuit, Argosy-Dallas completed the self-study for ASPPB National Registry standards and obtained this standard as well as the self-study for APA site review. The program met these standards when other PhD/PsyD APA accredited programs were being put on APA accredited, On Probation. Why do we never hear negative information about programs such as the programs On Probation?

The Argosy-Dallas Texas School of Professional Psychology PsyD program is closing and all of us associated with the program have survived and moved on, so it is time for others to move on as well.

Peace!!!

One quick point, and a quick follow-up question (which I'll list first, to avoid ending in an off-topic area):

-I thought at some point, somewhere, you'd mentioned leaving your fellowship (which I believe was private practice-oriented?) after one year; how're you planning on meeting the training criteria for ABPP in CN? I could be mis-remembering that information, though, of course.

-To be fair, anytime a program is put on probation, it's often listed on here somewhere. And folks have linked the list of programs on probation various times in various threads. I would say folks just take particular issue with Argosy and Alliant because of the large number of their programs (and class sizes), their historically below average outcome statistics, and their high price.
 
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Nope.. My two-year postdoctoral clinical neuropsychology fellowship is ongoing and will be finished in August. My early entry ABPP application will be complete at that time except for the written and oral exam. I believe you are referring to my one year postdoctoral to meet the licensure requirements and I completed this last August. All of my postdoctoral work, for psychologist and neuropsychologist has been in private practice settings. Much to my surprise many neuropsychologist do not apply for ABPP credentials in clinical neuropsychology and in the states where I am licensed there are only 3-5 with the ABPP credentials.

I am not sure of the historical reasons but most neuropsychologist are NAN members and a much smaller number are ABCN members.
 
Nope.. My two-year postdoctoral clinical neuropsychology fellowship is ongoing and will be finished in August. My early entry ABPP application will be complete at that time except for the written and oral exam. I believe you are referring to my one year postdoctoral to meet the licensure requirements and I completed this last August. All of my postdoctoral work, for psychologist and neuropsychologist has been in private practice settings. Much to my surprise many neuropsychologist do not apply for ABPP credentials in clinical neuropsychology and in the states where I am licensed there are only 3-5 with the ABPP credentials.

I am not sure of the historical reasons but most neuropsychologist are NAN members and a much smaller number are ABCN members.

That must've been what I was remembering, then; thank you for the clarification.

As T4C mentioned in another thread, the proportion of neuropsychologists (particularly newly-minted neuropsychologists) going the boarding route appears to have been on the rise for the past 5-10 years, at least. I'd imagine this is due in large part to the ubiquitous nature of the Houston guidelines, and increased exposure of trainees to board-certified supervisors.

The process itself is a bit expensive and time-consuming process (my ABPP credentials review, even with APA-approved grad school and internship and an APPCN-member fellowship complete with med school medical neurosciences course, took something like 3 months, for example), so I'd imagine there are folks who put it off for those reasons. I fully support it, though, and my thinking is that at this point, if someone isn't at least ABPP-eligible, then I likely wouldn't consider them to be a neuropsychologist.

But now I've ventured waaay off-topic, for which I apologize.
 
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Alliant and Argosy -- are they separate from JFK? (I'm very naive about this).
 
Alliant and Argosy -- are they separate from JFK? (I'm very naive about this).
Yes, they are two corporations that run separate multi-campus chains of free-standing professional psychology programs. Alliant is all in California and is also called the "California School of Professional Psychology." Argosy is national and is also called the "American School of Professional Psychology." Argosy is for profit, and Alliant used to be not-for-profit, though I'm not sure that's still the case. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chicago School of Professional Psychology plans to pursue a similar "chain" plan, especially with their LA campus.
 
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I'm guessing the answer is no, and this point is moot personally.. but is JFK a "better" school than either Alliant or Argosy?
 
I'm guessing the answer is no, and this point is moot personally.. but is JFK a "better" school than either Alliant or Argosy?
10-15 % APA match rate and 59% licensure rate. I don't know how much the school costs but less than a 2/3 chance of even being able to get licensed is not very good.
 
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What are the consequences of not matching?
I assume if you are at a good school but don't match, you have to wait another year and apply again?
But I assume at a bad school you might just never match because of their reputation?
 
What are the consequences of not matching?

Costs incurred during the application process x2 (depending on how many sites you applied to and your appic fee, and costs for travel if you got interviews)
Opportunity costs for time sunk into the application process x2 (less time for research or other professional activities)
Opportunity cost for delaying real job for one year (i.e., one year of real salary)
Opportunity costs for lost investment due to delay (delay in buying house, etc.)
Costs of additional year of tuition if you are not funded (could be tens of thousands at an unfunded school)
And enormous stress.
 
What are the consequences of not matching?
I assume if you are at a good school but don't match, you have to wait another year and apply again?
But I assume at a bad school you might just never match because of their reputation?

Yup, the people who didn't match in my program just reapplied. So far, everyone has matched on their second try (knock on wood, of course).

Some SDNers have failed to match two or three times. From what I've seen of their posts, it seems like some keep trying and some give up, such as graduating with their Masters or going into another field.
 
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