Army Brigade Dentist

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HawkeyeDDS

Agent Micheal Scarn
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There is one issue with the Army that I think should be made very clear to any considering joining the Army Dental Corps, that is the Brigade Dentist. It's kind of like a dirty little issue that the recruiter "forgets" to explain. It breaks down like this. There are 2 "umbrellas" where you might fall under in the Army. The first is the Dental Command (DENCOM) and the other is FORSCOM. The ideal setting is that you are under DENCOM and just go to a post/base and do dental work. Yes you might deploy, but the army just changed things so that all Dentist profis deployments under DENCOM are 6 months. Yes it's still 6 months, but I would jump on that like that dude did on the grenade. This is the ideal setting, life is actually pretty good. You show up do your thing and go home. Honestly it's a painfully easy lifestyle if you can deal with the intricacies of the military.

The other side of the house is the Brigade/MTOE slot. This basically means that you are assigned to a Brigade Combat Team...infantry etc. There are several variations, but you are no longer under the umbrella of DENCOM. This means you are subject to whatever the Brigade/BTN Commander want. (My commanders had the brilliant idea of setting up the field equipment in the motorpool so that I could work out of there. I thought that was well thought out, seeing how I would be treating patients right next to the Humvee repair shop. Luckily I derailed that idea with some helpr from the Dentac Commander) I am currently in this situation, on my way to IRAQ. It's been a struggle, and my situation is alot better than some friends I've talked to. It is entirely up to the commander of your unit if/when you are able to go to the clinic. There is a very good chance that less than 1/2 your time will be at the clinic. Some buddies of mine in Germany are lucky to get to the clinic 2-3 times a month. (Sucks to be them). I am constantly getting pulled from the clinic for classes, ranges, field exercises and just about any other thing they think is important. (But hey I now have drivers licenses for the 5 ton and tracked vehicles (113's)). Also as a medical officer in a brigade slot, you're rank is under a 2LT. I could care less, but some people get all bent about that. As a CPT I do have to report to a 2LT. I could be a MAJ or LTC and it would be the same. When you go to the field, you are basically a private. Nothing like setting up tents and camo for 16-18 hours in all weather conditions on 3 hours sleep to ask yourself why the hell I did it.

One final thing, if you are under DENCOM the chances of "stoploss" are small. If you are getting closer to your get out date (ETS) just volunteer for a 6 month deployment and get it over with, but in the Brigade....you are subject to their rules. You get the full 12-15 months deployment, and they could care less when you are supposed to get out. I will effectivly see my ETS date come and go from the beaches of Iraq, and I will probably have 6-9 months of "extra" involuntary service. I've come to terms with it now, but it can really be a blow when you are trying to make long term plans as far as setting up a practice somewhere, and not konw when you will be able to get that going.

I know I'm going to catch crap for this, "I should have known what I was signing up for." The fact is I didn't. I will be very greatfull for my experience when it is over. You never ask a marathon runner during the race if they are glad they did it. But that is my point. I want to make sure whoever decides to sign up, to be fully aware of what they are doing. If I could do it again, I would very seriously look at the NAVY/AF. I may switch over to the Guard or Reserves, just depends what the war is like in 15 months. Just know what you're getting into. The Army has been a blessing to me and my family, but they give me very little reason to stay.

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Some buddies of mine in Germany are lucky to get to the clinic 2-3 times a month.

As a CPT I do have to report to a 2LT. I could be a MAJ or LTC and it would be the same.

I will effectivly see my ETS date come and go from the beaches of Iraq, and I will probably have 6-9 months of "extra" involuntary service.

I highlighted out the some important quotes.

I was in one of the MTOE units in Germany and that 2-3 times a month can be dead on.

On the AMEDD side of the house yes an O-3 seams to be about the equivalent of an E-3 on the bullet thrower side of the house.

You will be doing pretty good with only 6-9 months of "extra" time as I did 16 months of "extra" time.

I agree with your comments and I am glad you feel still as I do that it is/was an honor to work for the armed forces.
 
wow this was very helpful. if i do the military i will do the navy. i just had lunch with my orthodontist today. he did the navy. he said he loved it...the most he was ever on deployment was 6 months on a ship but he had port stops every month or so....got to see hong kong, dubai, etc. hard to argue with that.
 
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I'm Army. We put Germany as our first choice and got it. We were very happy, but are just now realizing how lucky we were not to get an MTOE spot. They really don't explain that very well when you're in school. I know people close by that are in MTOE spots, and it sucks. The worst part is, they're all mixed together. Out of the four spots here, one is an MTOE. How do they decide who gets it?? Seems to me it's all luck. ASK CPT PRATT-CHAMBERS FOR A TDA SPOT, especially if you come to Germany. And I truly feel that if I had done a one-year AEGD 1) I would be in one year longer 2) I would have been sent to a MTOE spot. Good luck all!
 
There is one issue with the Army that I think should be made very clear to any considering joining the Army Dental Corps, that is the Brigade Dentist. It's kind of like a dirty little issue that the recruiter "forgets" to explain. It breaks down like this. There are 2 "umbrellas" where you might fall under in the Army. The first is the Dental Command (DENCOM) and the other is FORSCOM. The ideal setting is that you are under DENCOM and just go to a post/base and do dental work. Yes you might deploy, but the army just changed things so that all Dentist profis deployments under DENCOM are 6 months. Yes it's still 6 months, but I would jump on that like that dude did on the grenade. This is the ideal setting, life is actually pretty good. You show up do your thing and go home. Honestly it's a painfully easy lifestyle if you can deal with the intricacies of the military.

The other side of the house is the Brigade/MTOE slot. This basically means that you are assigned to a Brigade Combat Team...infantry etc. There are several variations, but you are no longer under the umbrella of DENCOM. This means you are subject to whatever the Brigade/BTN Commander want. (My commanders had the brilliant idea of setting up the field equipment in the motorpool so that I could work out of there. I thought that was well thought out, seeing how I would be treating patients right next to the Humvee repair shop. Luckily I derailed that idea with some helpr from the Dentac Commander) I am currently in this situation, on my way to IRAQ. It's been a struggle, and my situation is alot better than some friends I've talked to. It is entirely up to the commander of your unit if/when you are able to go to the clinic. There is a very good chance that less than 1/2 your time will be at the clinic. Some buddies of mine in Germany are lucky to get to the clinic 2-3 times a month. (Sucks to be them). I am constantly getting pulled from the clinic for classes, ranges, field exercises and just about any other thing they think is important. (But hey I now have drivers licenses for the 5 ton and tracked vehicles (113's)). Also as a medical officer in a brigade slot, you're rank is under a 2LT. I could care less, but some people get all bent about that. As a CPT I do have to report to a 2LT. I could be a MAJ or LTC and it would be the same. When you go to the field, you are basically a private. Nothing like setting up tents and camo for 16-18 hours in all weather conditions on 3 hours sleep to ask yourself why the hell I did it.

One final thing, if you are under DENCOM the chances of "stoploss" are small. If you are getting closer to your get out date (ETS) just volunteer for a 6 month deployment and get it over with, but in the Brigade....you are subject to their rules. You get the full 12-15 months deployment, and they could care less when you are supposed to get out. I will effectivly see my ETS date come and go from the beaches of Iraq, and I will probably have 6-9 months of "extra" involuntary service. I've come to terms with it now, but it can really be a blow when you are trying to make long term plans as far as setting up a practice somewhere, and not konw when you will be able to get that going.

I know I'm going to catch crap for this, "I should have known what I was signing up for." The fact is I didn't. I will be very greatfull for my experience when it is over. You never ask a marathon runner during the race if they are glad they did it. But that is my point. I want to make sure whoever decides to sign up, to be fully aware of what they are doing. If I could do it again, I would very seriously look at the NAVY/AF. I may switch over to the Guard or Reserves, just depends what the war is like in 15 months. Just know what you're getting into. The Army has been a blessing to me and my family, but they give me very little reason to stay.

I completely agree with everything Hawkeye has stated here.
 
Thanks for sharing your point of view. We do need to see things from another's point of view where things don't smell like roses all the time.

And no, I'm not going to give you crap again. :) My biggest point when I point things like your comment out is to make sure no one else does it. If you go to the milmed forum, you see it all the time. The last thing I want is for dental students to go into the military solely on the fact that they come out of school debt free. I'd rather inform people now and have them decide against it before they make the wrong decision for them and trash talk military dentistry like what happens with military medicine in the milmed forum.

I'm with you dude, I just want everyone to be fully informed. If it turns some off so be it, at least they are not ignorant of the possibilities. Also if the Army has trouble getting people, maybe they can rethink the way things are done. Unfortunately they only work under crisis management.
 
I am still confused as to what at "brigade/MTOE" slot is. How can you as an 0-3/0-4 be taking orders from an 0-1? I take it you are not doing much dentistry if you are assigned to this slot, but what are you actually doing?

I can only speak for the AF, but a dentist is a dentist. They would never let us cross train or work in a line officer slot. Please provide me some more clarification.
 
I am still confused as to what at "brigade/MTOE" slot is. How can you as an 0-3/0-4 be taking orders from an 0-1? I take it you are not doing much dentistry if you are assigned to this slot, but what are you actually doing?

I can only speak for the AF, but a dentist is a dentist. They would never let us cross train or work in a line officer slot. Please provide me some more clarification.


In the Army a dentist is necessarily a dentist. In the Army there are 2 types of dentists either in TDA or MTOE slots. A TDA slot means the clinical side of the house owns you so essentially you are a full time dentist and do minimal Army stuff. While an Army MTOE dentist is owned by a field unit where your main mission primarily evolves around mission readiness. This usually involves being prepared to deploy, PMCS equipment, NBC qualified, passed your ranges, etc., etc., etc. I spent many days working on field generators, certification on driving different vehicles, accounting for all the items on your hand receipt. The last part of the equation in an MTOE unit is for you to be in the clinic.

That being said you are in a civilian like environment in the AF so enjoy it. My friends who have transferred over say it is polar opposite of the Army. Here is an old example from the airbase I was on where an AF weather squadron was stationed. Well, the AF guys got paid hardship pay to live on an Army base while this was the standard of living for the soldiers. That is the tip of the iceberg as far differences between the AF and Army.

The good thing about being in an MTOE unit is that you don't have to do dentistry all day everyday, trust me you will get your whole life to fill that quota.

2 cents or maybe half a cent of opinion.
 
:hello:

And here I thought O-3's rating O-3's was bad enough...
 

RE: the discussion of junior Officer's (O-1/-2) being technically in charge of senior Officer's (O-3 and higher)?

What? You guys don't have Rater and Senior Rater blocks on your OER's?

ETA: I guess I was being a bit too vague there; I was commenting on a common phenomenon in the Veterinary Corps.
 
As a Medical officer in a TOE slot (Brigade Dentist) O3 I am still in what's called a Treatment Platoon. The Platoon Leader is an 0-1. She answers to the Company Commander O-3. As far as the rater scheme yes you still have Sr Rater who by law has to be higher ranking etc. I got some help from the Dentac commander and he went to bat for me to be my Sr Rater, so that I wouldn't be rated with the other Company Commanders. As I said earlier, even if I was a Maj, and was assigned to a Brigade slot, I would still have to report to that O-1 and the Company Commander O-3. I honestly think its funny. But some people might find it hard to swallow.
Also as was said earlier, in this situation, the "Bullet Throwers" could really care less if you get to the clinic or not. They want their mission completed first. This means you will be going to ranges, field excercises, taking care of vehicles, inventoring equipment and honestly sitting around alot waiting for the next order.

My goal in this whole thread was simply to explain what recruiters will fail to tell you. There's a good chance in the Army that you won't be in the clinic all the time. When making the assignments, the Brigade/MTOE slots have to be filled first. So even if you request a TDA or clinical slot, unless all the Brigade slots are full you don't have a choice.
Look things are not all bad, just go in with your eyes wide open to the possibilities.
 
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My ignorance of your Corps command structure is creating a critical flaw in my understanding; I am just positively flummoxed you are not at least reporting as a Company Commander yourself. So you aren't in the CoC for your own Soldiers? Do you even have Soldiers (68E's, right?)? You don't control your own operations? The training/joint training/FTX stuff is just par for course for MTOE as even we do the same with whoever we happen to get attached to.

I guess I ASSumed the Dental Corps had a similar arrangement as us; "Dental Services" detachments and/or hospital detachments that retained a unique HQ and infrastructure for command and control of these elements in a MTOE environment.

Yet another reason I'm positively thrilled to find SDN - the information and education exchange!
 
I do have a 68E, but she doesn't report to me, she reports to her squad leader. I have no one to look after, kind of nice. I said earlier, I am about equal to an E3. The best thing about my one assistant 68E is that she got knocked up right out of AIT and hasn't done any of the training with our equipment. So basically we are off to Iraq, I have an inexperienced assistant and neither of us know much about the field equipment. (they don't give you a class on that you are just supposed to know it)

At least the pay is not E3
 
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Well, I'm speechless. Always interesting to learn the new and exciting ways the military comes up with to break itself. They didn't just tie your hands, did they? They used the whole hank of 550 cord.

Don't you guys have some sort of Junior Officer Council or other way of networking with your peers (more in-depth than you can here - sharing images/pictures, continuity books, training material, etc.) so you can get hooked up with the deployment/equipment knowledge you need?

Just promise me you won't let yourself get talked into performing any root canals on military working dogs (MWDs) while you're deployed, m'kay? :)
 
I've got other Dentists that I've talked to, some are currently deployed, others recently returned. Basically it all comes down to the commanders in the Brigades.

No Dogs for me, I can't even get the equipment to do rootcanals on Humans. Apparently that wasn't part of the MTOE and I've tried to special order it, but it's been denied twice. I guess if someone has a toothache in my BCT it's cold steel and sunshine.
 
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Dude, I am just floored by this. I don't even know how to respond.

In my AF mind, this makes zero sense. What about patient care? I know that if I ever had someone tell me what I can and can't order, I would flip the B!tch switch. How can a line officer tell you what you need to take care of your patients?

I feel for you bro. You can always "cross into the blue".
 
In my AF mind, this makes zero sense. What about patient care? I know that if I ever had someone tell me what I can and can't order, I would flip the B!tch switch. How can a line officer tell you what you need to take care of your patients?

I feel for you bro. You can always "cross into the blue".

It is very difficult to get a conditional release from the Army DC to transfer a commission. It would nearly impossible to transfer during your ADSO. Once the big green machine grabs you, it is quite difficult to move on after your ADSO has been completed, I have been denied 3 years in a row for a conditional release (DD Form 368) while on IRR. BOHICA
 
You're not the only one.

I couldn't get released for an IAT to USPHS at the end of my ADSO and, in doing so, extend my time on active duty. As it was explained to me, it's not your particular Corps, it is the "Big Army". They (the Army) won't release anybody with a remaining MSO to another service, even if it means you'd stay on active duty vs. enter the IRR. Cause we're at war, don'tcha know? Can't be losing assets to other services...even if those assets, as a result, are unused and fermenting in the IRR. It's like a spoiled bratty child who rather break their toys than share and screaming all the while "they're MINE!!" :p

Hadn't gotten around to looking into it personally, but not surprised at all to hear it extends while in the IRR as well.
 
Hawkeye:

Sounds like you're too nice for your own good. I don't ask, I tell, since its no small miracle if they know their own job let alone mine. If I get static I can't squelch, I start climbing that chain looking for bigger guns.

If I had money, I'd bet a large chunk that most Brigade Commanders don't know their dentist from a PFC or squat about you and what you need in order to be an effective and efficient unit. Most likely because generations of junior Officers before you just zipped their lip and traveled the path of least resistance. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the only scenario my widdle brain can come up with to rationally explain how your slot ended up as abused as it is.

Maybe it's because we're told starting in our track at OBC (OBLC), but we're turned loose knowing we're going to have to educate Base/Installation/Garrison/Wing/Whoever Commanders about what it is we do for them and why if we want to get anything done. Some will care and you can establish a commensal/mutualistic symbiotic relationship; others will look at you like your just another annoying parasitic pubic louse.

Why am I bothering to yak all this at you? I guess because at least in my experience, you can sit back and cruise and everything remains the same or you can try to effect change. You will surely fail 99% of the time, but that 1% where you succeed? Man, it feels good to know you actually did something that'll make it better for whoever follows in your boots. Seems to me you've got a mighty big bargaining chip if NOGO dental CAT's on the human side really are the deployment issue AMEDD/SRP/MEDPROS makes it out to be.

RE: no equipment. If that's the case, you may want to buddy up with whatever VS detachment is near you. They should have access to a dentalaire with high-speed/low-speed handpieces and water/air.... :rolleyes: Seriously though, just remember what they say about barter and trade still holds true, no matter where you are.
 
I think I'm more Passive Aggressive than Nice. I am trying everything I can do to get what I need. I've got the Dentac Col on my side and he has been awesome at communicating my needs to the Brigade O-6 which filters down. The problem simply is that as soon as I get everything worked out, new commanders will come in and try and reinvent the wheel. My situation is not unique. I've heard countless stories of the "motorpool" dentistry. I've never heard of it working, but the "knuckle draggers" keep pushing the issue. Must be an OER Bullet or something. Right now I am using my chain of commands, but I won't let it rest. I have saved copies of my emails as well as my requests for equipment. The "Squelch" as you put it, is being saved until my leave is signed. :oops: I will get what I need, most likely I'll acquire the essentials from the Dental Clinic, they said they'd help me with whatever I needed

I really didn't want this thread to turn into a b!tch fest. I just wanted people considering the Army to realize what can happen. As a CPT you have probably a 1/4 chance of ending up in a slot just like me. Some like it, most don't. I'm greatfull that the Army paid for my school and gave me some wonderfull experiences, but when my time is up, there will be no looking back. There is no reason to stay in the Army as a general dentist (Class 3 amalgam slinger, exam Doc). If I wanted to specialize that would be different. If I could do it again I would do the Airforce first, Navy second, Indian Health service third, leprechaun society 4th :luck:, and then the Army. But so be it, 15 more months is not that long.

Thanks for all your posts/encouragement.
 
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If I could do it again I would do the Airforce first, Navy second, Indian Health service third, leprechaun society 4th :luck:, and then the Army. But so be it, 15 more months is not that long.

Hawkeye,

I enjoyed this line as it is so true.
 
Herme,


here is my experience with the Brigade Dentistry.
 
Herme,


here is my experience with the Brigade Dentistry.


HawkeyeDDS

Thanks man! Tons of usefule info. You pulled together and filled in the blanks between all the snippits I've come across. Very informative!:thumbup:
 
Is the chance of getting assigned as a brigade dentist greater/just as great for Bravos? I ask because I'm getting the impression that Alphas who have done the 1-year AEGD might have a higher chance of getting assigned as a Brigade dentist? Same thing with 2-year grads?
 
Seems to be that way, but I don't think there's any real concrete definition. Anybody (general dentist) can be placed in a Brigade slot, but it seems to be mostly filled by Cpt's just getting out of the one year.
 
you have a fair amount of choice as to where you go. i don't see that there is any greater chance for a CPT right out of the AEGD to go to a TOE unit (brigade dentist) just BECAUSE they did an AEGD.

if you just sit back and allow yourself to be given whatever slot HRC wants to *randomly* assign you, then that might be so.

you have to be proactive in contacting HRC EARLY and OFTEN. if you are expecting to PCS in May, start calling HRC in October the year before. call them once in Oct, twice in Nov and three or four times in Dec and Jan. ask what locations they anticipate being available and ask what type of unit those are with (TOE or PROFIS). use that information to give HRC your wishlist. if you choose a location that HRC says should be available as your first choice, you will probably get it. if you want to go to a PROFIS slot, make that your first choice at a location that it will be available.

if you wanted, you could even go a step further and call around and try to find out when the units at the location HRC say will be available have deployed, or are planning to deploy. if you go to a TOE unit that has just returned from a deployment, you will probably avoid deploying for a while.

you have to be proactive and you can usually get what you want of what will be available. 63A's (9D or otherwhise) do not get sent to any specific spot, just because they have did the AEGD.

the fact is that the TOE (brigade slots) and the overseas slots have to be filled first (before the PROFIS/DENTAC) slots that are stateside, so there are more of them available needing to be filled. there are also a lot of CPT's just coming out of an AEGD each year (50 or so each year), so if you just sit back and let HRC assign you randomly then, statisticly, the chances are decent that you will go overseas or to a TOE slot.
 
I agree 100% with what UMKCDDS said. However, I have had several conversations with HRC and they stated if at all possible they do not like to put people straight out of dental school in the TOE slots. Does this increase your chances if you are straight out of the AGD, maybe...maybe not. In the end though all they really care about is a warm body in the slot. So do exactly what UMKC said, call early and often. You can request a location, but rarely will they let you request Profis over TOE if they are both at that location. (hint find a location w/o TOE)
 
If I could do it again I would do the Airforce first, Navy second, Indian Health service third, leprechaun society 4th :luck:, and then the Army. But so be it, 15 more months is not that long.


All,

I do not really have a dog in this "fight" b/c I have never been a Brigade dentist and the only friend that I had that was a Brigade dentist, I have lost contact with. Anyway, I do want to comment on this quote above. I do not want to spin any issue, however, we all have different experiances in the Military, private practice, dental school, etc. My life has been very nice in the Army and I have had a wonderful practice & Residency.

I happen to lend my time to the Medical Recuiters I know who have doctors/dental students who are interested in coming into the Army and would like to talk to an Army Dentist. I have been given multiple contact requests recently from Recruiters of Air Force and Navy dentists who would like to transfer into the Army to do a Residency. I can only take from this that The Army has more opportunity when it comes to Residency training?? But, to be fare and balanced there maybe Army dentists trying to go into the other services, I do not know. Just FYI.




SoonerFan
 
Just be aware that the Brigade Dentist slot is there and what it could mean to you and your family, before you sign up with the Army. Obviously if you are going to apply for residency then you will most likely never deal with the TOE issues, and the Army is a decent way to do a residency.

There's pro's and con's, just know what you are potentially getting into.

Sincerely,

Stoplossed until 2010!!!
 
This is a very informative post.

From what I can gather the downside of being a brigade dentist is that besides the actual deployment itself (where you may do limited dentistry, etc) is the brigade 'life'. Since your unit commander essentially tells you what to do, you could end up doing all your unit work ups, etc instead of doing dentistry. 2 or 3 days of clinic per MONTH? That seems ridiculous to me, especially for a newer dentist straight out of AEGD 1 yr. I guess it all depends on the commander or what the army needs.


So I've also been reading that a lot of deployments lately have been 'filled' by dentists volunteering for the 6 month stints (I assume thats a 'new' thing?). Even if this is the case and if you are a TOE dentist with a unit that is going on a 15 mo deployment, you will go with them regardless.

All TDA slots are considered PROFIS slots is that correct? That is if you are assigned to a DENTAC with a division and that division needs a dentist, you can easily get shipped out with them for 15 months.

I understand that the Army is paying for your school not to keep you in a nice little clinic environment during your whole service obligation, but to serve their needs. Deployments are a fact of life. However, I'm mainly concerned here about being placed in a medical company type unit where you have extremely limited clinical time when NOT deployed and the limited clinical time when doing your workups before the unit gets deployed.


I won't graduate dental school for a few years, and even if the deployment rate has slowed a bit, this is difficult for me to jump into knowing I can get shafted in regards to my professional skills that may atrophy if stuck in a place where I'm in clinic a less than 3 or 4 days a week.

Any thoughts here?
 
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This is a very informative post.

From what I can gather the downside of being a brigade dentist is that besides the actual deployment itself (where you may do limited dentistry, etc) is the brigade 'life'. Since your unit commander essentially tells you what to do, you could end up doing all your unit work ups, etc instead of doing dentistry. 2 or 3 days of clinic per MONTH? That seems ridiculous to me, especially for a newer dentist straight out of AEGD 1 yr. I guess it all depends on the commander or what the army needs.


So I've also been reading that a lot of deployments lately have been 'filled' by dentists volunteering for the 6 month stints (I assume thats a 'new' thing?). Even if this is the case and if you are a TOE dentist with a unit that is going on a 15 mo deployment, you will go with them regardless.

All TDA slots are considered PROFIS slots is that correct? That is if you are assigned to a DENTAC with a division and that division needs a dentist, you can easily get shipped out with them for 15 months.

I understand that the Army is paying for your school not to keep you in a nice little clinic environment during your whole service obligation, but to serve their needs. Deployments are a fact of life. However, I'm mainly concerned here about being placed in a medical company type unit where you have extremely limited clinical time when NOT deployed and the limited clinical time when doing your workups before the unit gets deployed.


I won't graduate dental school for a few years, and even if the deployment rate has slowed a bit, this is difficult for me to jump into knowing I can get shafted in regards to my professional skills that may atrophy if stuck in a place where I'm in clinic a less than 3 or 4 days a week.

Any thoughts here?

First off props to Hawkeye and any other Brigade dentist - these guys are on the front line in serving our Corps and building relationships that will both help the Army as a whole, and can improve communication between line units and Dental Commanders in garrison.

I have not been in a TOE slot yet - but here's some thoughts on the matter from what I 've seen/had friends tell me:

- It ultimately comes down to the Commander you are assigned to - they can treat you like a professional/officer and it can be a great relationship where you are considered one of his staff officers - or they can look at you as the annoying dental officer that has to tag along.
- Many of my friends assigned TOE were still in the clinic the majority of the time (90%+). I realize this may vary - that's just what they found.
- Being a PROFIS dentist is not tied to geographical location. You could be assigned to Ft Stewart, GA as a dentist, but deploy with a unit out of Texas. PROFIS slots aren't firm - they can float - so just because the guy you replaced at Ft. XXXXX went with the dental company from Ft Bragg - doesn't mean you will go with the same unit. It comes down to the Regional Commander assigning deployments if dentists don't volunteer and slots need to be filled. This is the case for all specialties except Oral Surgeons and Comprehensive dentists (their deployments are decided by the DENCOM Commander).
- many slots are being filled by volunteers.
 
Greetings from Babylon!!!!!

It's been just over a month since my road trip started. I'm finally getting back into the SDN life a little, now that I have internet access again. I wish I could put my experiences so far on this forum, but due to OPSEC (operational security) I can only be vague.

Some peoples experiences are not bad, Soonerfan and KRMower and others seem to have had good experiences, and I'm glad for them. But it comes down to this. If you are assigned to a Brigade slot, you have no promises from the Dentac.

I know that I am in a unique situation, I know that most often if you join the Army you will not get stuck in my situation.....but just the chance that you could, I can't in clear conscience recommend it. Sorry.

34 days down, 331 to go, (or until mission's complete:smuggrin:)
 
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Sorry to hear about your hardships. This is exactly what I warned people about. You must be willing to do the suck if you take a scholarship.

Keep us informed of the situation.
 
I heard this one the other day, and it describes things perfectly over here

"the war ended and garrison broke out"

Thanks Desert Rat for your thoughts, My whole point in writing this is so that people can be aware of what the suck is. recruiters and others are all to happy to talk about the positives, I just think people should be fully aware. And if I can influence any change for the better I will try to.

Always be aware when someone says "It's not that bad" it usually is.
 
Hawkeye DDS,

1st, thank you for your service. You undoubtedly provide a great service to our Soldiers. The tone of your posts, however, are contributing to the Army's difficulty in attracting quality dentists to serve. Yes it is a sacrifice. Yes it is hard. But is this really the place to air your/our dirty laundry?

This site should be viewed by all of us military dental types as a fabulous recruiting opportunity to show a BALANCED account of military dentistry, not just all the negative experiences of one person.

Please write some more about some of the GOOD things about your experiences...if you can't think of any, please take a break from the negativity!!!

GOARMYDENTAL!!!
 
Hawkeye DDS,

But is this really the place to air your/our dirty laundry?

This site should be viewed by all of us military dental types as a fabulous recruiting opportunity to show a BALANCED account of military dentistry, not just all the negative experiences of one person.

Please write some more about some of the GOOD things about your experiences...if you can't think of any, please take a break from the negativity!!!

GOARMYDENTAL!!!

GoArmy,

Please read through all the post and previous input Hawkeye has put into the forum before you are so quick to judge on one post.
 
Hawkeye DDS,

1st, thank you for your service. You undoubtedly provide a great service to our Soldiers. The tone of your posts, however, are contributing to the Army's difficulty in attracting quality dentists to serve. Yes it is a sacrifice. Yes it is hard. But is this really the place to air your/our dirty laundry?

This site should be viewed by all of us military dental types as a fabulous recruiting opportunity to show a BALANCED account of military dentistry, not just all the negative experiences of one person.

Please write some more about some of the GOOD things about your experiences...if you can't think of any, please take a break from the negativity!!!

GOARMYDENTAL!!!

What negativity? He is telling his side of true story for us and this is what most predental, HPSP dental students and current military dentists are interested in finding out about. If you have good things to write about the dangerous deployment, why don't you write one?

HawkeyeDDS, thank you for your service and I admire you for keeping us updated. I know you are on a convoy mission in a 120 degree desert filled with explosives, snipers and suicide bombers but try to keep up with yourself with positive thoughts in order to go through a gruesome 12 month deployment in a hazardous combat zone.

You are a true American hero.

Everybody loves "Single Mom DDS"
 
I believe people should be aware of both sides to the military. I do think if all you want is a free place to sign up dentists than this should not be it.

I served both in the Air Force and in the Army. I had 10 years in before recieving a dissability and having to leave. I loved being in the military and did everything from special forces to dentistry. (I have been stabbed, shot, and multiple injuries, all that as an enlisted before dental school) As a dentist in the Army I found it to be a fun and rewarding career, but there is a level of suck that one has to endure.

I had more authority and power as an enlisted than I did as a 0-3 in the Army. I was also shocked to see the public health service getting promoted to 0-4 at 4 years instead of the Army at 5. I also saw many gaurd getting proted early and high ranks without the residency. These things bothered me alot and made me wonder why I was in the Army.

I enjoyed doing mass casualty excersises, I enjoyed the soldier training, I enjoyed learning medicine. I got board with the routine drill and fill on amalgam road, or seeing 30 recruits in the morning to check for class III caries.

There is not a day go by that I don't miss wearing the uniform. I wish I could be in Iraq with my peers. I have issues I deal with about that alot.

I don't blame my dissabilities on the military and I don't hold grudges. I do however want to make sure people going into the service know the truth about the comittment they make to serve. They need to know both the good and the bad. The Army is not right for everyone and we should make sure we get the right people in and not just a number.

If I was still in the Army as a dentist I would be learning as much about medicine as I could. I would volunteer to help the medical doctors and the medics in the field. I would be doing IVs and putting bandages on at any time. The key to keep from being treated bad in the field is to make them feel they need you and that you have something to offer. Don't whine about not doing dentistry, but try to branch out and do more medical and fun stuff.
 
Desert Rat,

That was a sweet post brother. I was an e-5 in an infantry unit when I got out to do ROTC and dental school. I realize there is going to be some culture shock when I go active again, and I am really curious to hear what you might have to say about that. Hearing your comment about the e-5 having more authority than an o-3 struck me as funny and kinda scary. Are you suggesting that we are essentially commissioned specialists (e-4s)? Super.

So you suggest helping out the Docs in the field eh? That is some new advice that I havent heard on here. Have to try that out. Did you get your EFMB? Another question for you, did you do the AEGD? If so, did you like it and where did you go. If not, why not and would you do it if you had the chance? Thanks.
 
Just remember in a DENTAC setting as far as dentists go an 0-3 is the bottom so sh-- runs down. Now how much sh-- are we talking about? Not much, you don't pull flag duty or clean toilets, but you get to do all the Army stuff and deploy (fun stuff to me).

In a TOE position assigned to someone outside DENTAC then rank means alot and it means little. Soldiers will pop off a salute and respect your rank big time. In a combat situation you are in the way and a hindrence to their mission. They have to protect you. If you act as a medic or doc you can be a help not a hindrence. If you volunteer to help the soldiers and not complain they will respect you more.

The little dental symble on your uniform spell out that you are not a combatant unless shot at first. The soldiers know this. They also know you have not been trained to their level, so they want you out of the way so they don't need to save you. They would prefer to have you back at division if they need you.

If you are medic trained or can do general medicine they will let you help and they would like you there with them. If you can do an IV and can administer pain meds, carry a stretcher, sew up a wound, bandage a wound you are more valuable than a dentist. Get the book, "emergency war surgury from the dept of defence. learn what is in it. Talk with the med cdocs and the medics and learn from them

Get the field training like airborn, the medic badge, learn to shoot well and you will have earned some respect.

Don't go into the Army dentistry if you think you want a gentalmens military. You need to be in the mud with the troops and dig your own trench. There are no enlisted to cater to you and to bring you luxuries. That is the navy. You won't have an officers bathroom, or officers dining hall, that is navy.
 
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I couldn't have said it better. You have no idea how much respect I have for you. I agree whole heartedly with doing as much medical as possible.

GOARMYDENTAL: As far as the Negativity Comment earlier, I've given both +/- feedback on both the Army and Military in General. I am not a recruiter and have no need for the $1,000 referral bonus.

I have referred several students to the Air force and Navy. I think it is awesome to serve my country. But I didn't endure 8 years of college to be treated like an 18 year old again. There are numerous ways to serve your country, the Army isn't the only one. And until there is a crisis in the Dental Corps they won't change how they treat us in the Brigade. I'm not asking to be coddled or babied. I sincerely wish that all dentists would be "Profis" and they would end the Brigade slot all together. I spoke with several Brigade dentists from the 464 out of Germany. In the past 6 months the most any of them has been in the clinic was 30 days total. But they can set up a tent like a banshee.

These pre dental students who are looking on this site for advice need to get both sides to make an informed decision, and I am happy to talk about both positives and negatives. Unfortunately they mostly just get the positives with a few sugar coated negatives from recruiters etc. I am extremely greatfull I did it and will look back with pride on my time in the uniform. But I will also be greatfull to move on to the next phase of my life.

On a positive note, the Army is easier to specialize in than the civilian side. And I got to shoot up a car pretty good with a Mark 19 (automatic grenade launcher) at the range. There I said it, something positive. I feel better.
 
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Don't go into the Army dentistry if you think you want a gentalmens military. You need to be in the mud with the troops and dig your own trench. There are no enlisted to cater to you and to bring you luxuries. That is the navy. You won't have an officers bathroom, or officers dining hall, that is navy.

I do not take any offense to the Navy bits, because some do go into the Navy for just as you say just as some go into the AF for the plush life. Don't forget, the Navy supplies all medical and dental for the Marines - so, those of us who sped time with the Marines can do the same as the Army. Also, don't assume (which I am not saying you are assuming this, just pointing out) that is why people do go there. I am 4th generation Navy. So, it is a part of my life. I just happen to be the first officer in the line. Some people have other reasons for joining a particular branch. I would get down and dirty with the troops. I would love to spend time with the Marines - at least one tour before I retire.
 
I sincerely appologize for any negative personal comments I have expressed thus far on this sight. I have in no way, meant to offend anyone however looking back I'm sure I did. I have unfortunately let my emotions get the best of me at times, for which I appologize, and promise to not do so in the future.
 
I sincerely appologize for any negative personal comments I have expressed thus far on this sight. I have in no way, meant to offend anyone however looking back I'm sure I did. I have unfortunately let my emotions get the best of me at times, for which I appologize, and promise to not do so in the future.

I don't think you need to apologize for how you feel - the way you feel is valid. Sometimes therapeutic to get it off your chest.

From your short time there have you been able to find out what other deployed dentists are dealing with? Do other dentists have the same issues with equipment? How's the gym? Do you have a swimming pool :)

Stay safe man, our thoughts and prayers are with you!
 
I don't think you need to apologize for how you feel - the way you feel is valid. Sometimes therapeutic to get it off your chest.

From your short time there have you been able to find out what other deployed dentists are dealing with? Do other dentists have the same issues with equipment? How's the gym? Do you have a swimming pool :)

Stay safe man, our thoughts and prayers are with you!

Sorry, no swimming pool here., I've heard of pools at some camps, maybe Anaconda????? There is a Gym though. I've made good friends with it. I hope to go home about 10 lbs lighter at midtour. Pt load is different here. You basically do sick call and schedule appts accordingly, but somedays are pretty slow, so the Gym is a good stress reliever on the slow days.

As far as equipment goes, most of the dentists I've talked to have had their clinics upgraded to a "fixed" environment. Hopefully ours will be soon.
 
Sorry, no swimming pool here., I've heard of pools at some camps, maybe Anaconda????? There is a Gym though. I've made good friends with it. I hope to go home about 10 lbs lighter at midtour. Pt load is different here. You basically do sick call and schedule appts accordingly, but somedays are pretty slow, so the Gym is a good stress reliever on the slow days.

As far as equipment goes, most of the dentists I've talked to have had their clinics upgraded to a "fixed" environment. Hopefully ours will be soon.

I was joking about the pools - that's interesting though. I knew Kuwait had some. Got to be hard losing the weight - I've heard the dining facilities are opened 24/7. Do you guys play a lot of X-box? My friends have talked about the X-box tournaments they would have.
 
I'm a Major in the U.S. Army and I love it. I've been practicing dentistry for 18 years, 15 of those years in the civilian sector. I volunteered twice to be deployed to Iraq. The first deployment was with a dental company and the second as a brigade dentist with the 3rd ID. The experiences I had were very memorable. Overall I feel very proud to have served my Country. There are pros and cons to civilian vs. military dentistry. I think it's up to the individual as to which lifestyle is best.
 
I'm a Major in the U.S. Army and I love it. I've been practicing dentistry for 18 years, 15 of those years in the civilian sector. I volunteered twice to be deployed to Iraq. The first deployment was with a dental company and the second as a brigade dentist with the 3rd ID. The experiences I had were very memorable. Overall I feel very proud to have served my Country. There are pros and cons to civilian vs. military dentistry. I think it's up to the individual as to which lifestyle is best.

Can you address Hawkeye's specific complaints?
 
Can you address Hawkeye's specific complaints?

Hawkeye's complaints are slightly misleading. Everyone is going to have a different experience with their recruiter, there's no doubt about that. What Hawkeye is trying to explain is Army organizational hierarchy that is going to fly over just about all applicant's heads. This organizational hierarchy is what you learn in OBLC.

Long story short recruiters for the most probably probably say a blanket statement to the effect that once in the Army and assigned to a unit, there are two types of units, a TDA or TOE. TOE are field units attached to combat units who's deployment frequency is more than being placed in a TDA unit.

Search TOE and TDA, I've written a long explanation somewhere.
 
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