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Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

Discussion in 'Military Medicine' started by EMH, 07.31.08.

  1. OneTyme

    OneTyme Kickin' it ol' school

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    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    Greetings,

    I'm a current MS1 interested in the Army Guard in Washington, specifically the Seattle area. (GO HUSKIES)

    I've been trying to get a hold of a recruiter in the Seattle area but I'm not having much luck, their online links are dead/bad.

    Can somebody hook me up with a recruiter in the area or even better... A med student who is currently in the guard in the area?

    Feel free to PM me.

    Thanks!!
  2. OneTyme

    OneTyme Kickin' it ol' school

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    Also, I have a question reference the program that you guys might be able to help with.

    What would happen as far as commitment goes if I were to commission during MS2 as an MD student and then I transitioned my degree to a combined MD/PhD? (Logistically this would mean that I inserted a 3 year PhD degree between MS2 and MS3).

    Would my drill payback start during those three years and then go back to med student status when I started MS3?

    What would my deployment availability be during the PhD years?

    Sorry to add more questions to the thread, I'm just not seeing any information on the PhD route with the search criteria I'm using.
  3. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    Call 1-800-Go-Guard and ask for your state's AMEDD officer recruiter. These change with regularity, so names people have on their rolodex don't mean a whole lot. You're best off getting the current stuff.

    And DO NOT call a non-AMEDD recruiter. They give out no or bad info. AMEDD is extremely specific.

    Can't help you on the PhD thing.
  4. OneTyme

    OneTyme Kickin' it ol' school

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    I have a call in to the WA office. Thanks for the help!
  5. lepetit

    lepetit

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    any help? :oops:
  6. MetalSlug

    MetalSlug

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    Anybody know if Step 1 can be reimbursed for non-ASR students? I know some ASRs that got their tests paid for, but I have been told conflicting info by a few different AMEDD people in my state regarding reimbursement for non-ASRs. I will be taking the test next summer. Thanks!
  7. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    Sorry this slipped lepetit
    Depends on when should you and when can you.

    When should you:
    • The ideal time is for the break between MS1 and MS2, if your school schedule allows. This is time for fun in the sun. There is nothing you'll really do as a first year medical student that's going to wow PDs as you apply for residency. You don't know enough to do anything clinically interesting by that point.
    • You could do it between MS2 and MS3, which is horrible, since most folks want to use that time to study for Step 1 (ymmv if you're a genius who only needs to hit the books for a couple of weeks).
    • You could also do it with elective rotations in your MS3 year, but that rarely works. Most schools have required curriculum in MS3. Of the few schools that allow electives, almost every one I know of requires clinical rotations for those electives, which BOLC will definitely not qualify for.
    • You could also do it during MS4. Some schools apparently give elective credit for it, but I'm dubious (I hear people who've heard of this, but don't know anyone who firsthand has gotten credit). Many do it durng MS4 during vacation time. If your school has a lot, it's easy. If your school doesn't, you have to eat up valuable interview time.
    When can you:
    • When were you commissioned? You automatically have two years from your commissioning to do BOLC. If you can't do it in time, you can get a one year extension for a total of 3 years from commissioning to BOLC.

    So if you were commissioned on your first day of med school, your options are MS1 summer, MS2 summer, or MS3 year. The last isn't usually possible and the second one is a really bad idea, which makes the first the winner. If you were commissioned in the middle or your second year, say, you have a lot more choices.
    I'd do BOLC and get it over with. The upside of a few weeks of summer research after your MS1 year isn't much of a gain compared to the downside of impacting your Step 1 score or other badness.

    Hope this helps...
  8. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    Do BOLC, get it out of the way. It's a pain in the butt to do any other time and a friend's marriage or some summer research aren't worth the trouble, imo. To make the best of it look into:

    1) Working on the research before and after BOLC and then carrying it on into the school year if you can make progress with a few hours a week of effort on it. BOLC is a great time to catch up on the relevant literature and science.

    2) What's scheduled at BOLC on the day of the wedding? There are some days with nothing scheduled as I recall. Getting permission to travel to the wedding might be possible if you wouldn't have to miss any course work or field time.

    Edit:


    Non-ASRs can be reimbursed as per the last e-mail I saw about it. Whether it will be offered next year remains to be seen, but I think it's likely.

    For those of you who have been reimbursed, did you get it added onto your pay or as a physical check in the mail?
  9. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    It comes however you get paid regular pay. It showed up in my bank account with its own MyPay statement, just like regular pay.
  10. lepetit

    lepetit

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    notdeadyet and DeadCactus,

    thanks so much for your advice. M1/M2 summer it is, and i will see about trying to obtain permission to travel to my friend's wedding. i will most likely be starting research next semester, continue up to BOLC, and then start my research again after i come back from training.

    thanks again!

    edit: i also had a question concerning tuition assistance. would i have to submit a degree progress report, even when i'm not the one who's registering for my medical school courses? all i know is which courses i'm taking next semester, and when i tried to enter those, the system gave me an error. what's the general procedure to follow after submitting the statement of understanding?

    thanks!
  11. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    Thanks. Guess I need to e-mail them, I don't think I got it even though they confirmed by documentation...
  12. harvardslacker

    harvardslacker

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    Update re the issue of FTA:

    - MD/DO students with no degree beyond a BA are eligible for FTA.
    - However, in August 2011, a 'TA Policy Clarification' said that funding is for a master's degree or 45 hours of graduate credit, whichever comes first. Therefore, many ASRs are finding that their FTA requests this year are denied, since they blew through those hours with FTA in previous years. Exceptions to the 45 hour limit exist for some programs, including 'career advancement programs' like the Physician's Assistant Program. Who wants to bet that an MD won't be considered to be career-advancing?
    - Despite this policy, I recently had a TA request approved, though I don't know how many units I technically had registered for in previous years. My recent request was only for one class, and my subsequent request was denied, so it's possible that I was just shy of 45, but I think that there may also be sporadic enforcement of these rules, at least while they are relatively young.
  13. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    Yea, I had the same problem. Tried to register for classes and it only took for the first one. Hopefully they change it. It doesn't hurt me too bad as an ASR, but it's a big hit to MDSSP students.Hopefully they correct it...
  14. jkmph

    jkmph Non ducor, duco

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    Anyone had any luck getting reimbursed for step 1?
  15. eflix

    eflix

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    I submitted a request and received a confirmation of receipt by NGB back in August, but haven't received anything yet.
  16. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    I followed up on mine and was told it was submitted for processing in late November. I imagine most of us will be receiving it within the next week or so...
  17. infirmarydude

    infirmarydude

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    FRB finally next week...

    i don't plan on taking the stipend but I am curious about what other benefits I can get?


    1. my recruiter told me that FTA is only available after OBLC
    2. i heard they may reimburse for uniforms? this true? also where is it cheaper to get them, at the base or online?
    3. is USAA that much better for insurance than geico?
    4. im planning on going with tricare reserve because my doctor will take it and its only 600 a year vs my schools which is 3000! any comments?
    5. any other benefits available or other things i should know about?
    6. they did recently change the flexitrain policy but that should be the biggest deal because the base is 40 mins away and they basically said show up whenever and leave 1630 and be back the next day. also there are no credentialed medical staff on base so there is literally nothing to do but study, sounds ok to me i guess
    7. random Q: I am PA and a MS1 - is there any way to be credentialed to work as a PA? i heard they would have to commission me as a PA to work so thats out because i wouldnt be protected from deployment in that case... any ideas?
    thanks!
  18. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    1. I found it cheaper online. They report a reimbursement (which is really a flat payment to everyone), but I never got mine (been in about 3 years) and most folks I know haven't.
      I found them pretty comparable and stuck with Geico. The big plus of USAA is a 3% $20K loan they give new officers, which can be handy if you have loans out for more than that that you want to pay off.
      I'd probably opt for Tricare reserve if (and only if) I knew of local docs that would take it (a problem at some places) and if I was very healthy. Tricare Reserve is fine for a "just in case" insurance, which is all most medical students probably need.
      Just the other stuff that's been discussed in this thread.
      Which change is that?
    Bingo. The Army is surprisingly tight on licenses and credentials (I say surprising because they're still relatively okay using GMO's). You can't work on a PA license unless you're recognized by the Army as a PA, and you need to be careful to not get put into that slot.

    There's really not much for medical students to do in the Guard, since we don't have training as 70B's or any other medical services corps specialty. A lot of what you end up doing comes down to how gung ho you're command is.
  19. infirmarydude

    infirmarydude

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    change to flexitrain is now 6 out of 12 months are required and AT is required once every 2 years... not sure how that will work out exactly because i asked my school and they basically said no dice on the AT... will have to ask my CO
  20. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    The last policy doc I'd seen on Flexi-Training was 04 JAN 2010. It mentioned the AT at least once every 2 years (which has been policy for a while), but it still mentioned the drill once q quarter.

    If there's a newer policy doc that changed the drill schedule, I haven't seen it. If it's real, could someone PM me the new policy doc?
  21. infirmarydude

    infirmarydude

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    haha its real.. and its from 09 DEC 2011 - how do I attach things in a PM?
  22. Mr. Freeze

    Mr. Freeze Not right. (in the head)

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    might as well post a link if there is one...
  23. jkmph

    jkmph Non ducor, duco

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    Can anyone elaborate on the forms or provide any details that I need to submit such a request? The more information I have when I approach the administrative assistants in my unit, the better. Thanks.
  24. OneTyme

    OneTyme Kickin' it ol' school

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    So I have a question regarding MDSSP (Reserve) payback....

    I was under the impression that the clock started on payback when I graduated (ie stopped taking the stipend) and started drilling during residency unless I opt for other incentives. However, I just talked to a recruiter and the language in this handout I have makes it sound like payback starts AFTER residency...

    Which is correct?
  25. infirmarydude

    infirmarydude

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    according to the new policy memo released this year, payback starts after residency

    USAA Question:

    regarding the new officer loan.. what is the payback on that and what is required to get it?

    I want to take it out to pay back some 8.5% loans i have from prior schooling

    thanks!
  26. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    Your recruiter is right. MDSSP now starts payback post-residency.
  27. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    I took this loan out about two or three years ago, so apologies if they've changed things...

    You can take any amount up to $25K. I think they ask why you need it. My reasoning was to buy a car.

    You need to sign up to make monthly payments over 60 months (5 years) and that needs to be scheduled payments out of a USAA account.
  28. OneTyme

    OneTyme Kickin' it ol' school

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    Man, it sounds like they have really wised up since the ASR days!
  29. dsl8va

    dsl8va

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    Hi, I'm currently a sophomore at UVa and I recently contracted. I'm doing SMP so I'm serving in the ARNG while doing ROTC. I now realize that HPSP would be too much of a commitment to me so I am now considering non-HPSP options to go through med school. I'm sure this topic may have been covered, but I'm new to this whole thing and I want to just lay out all my options.

    These are my options to my knowledge:

    1. Commission into the ARNG with an 8 year contract and go to med school during. Hopefully I can get a spot in the ASR which would grant me active guard for 3 years. So the remaining 5 years of my commitment I will be getting paid only drill pay, correct? So let's say I get a specialty bonus for $75,000 and loan repayment for $50,000. Does that add 6 years to my service obligation on top of my 8 years? So I could be serving 6 years after I complete residency (assuming med school + residency = 8 years). I could also access federal loans and GI bill right?

    2. My other option is an education delay, rack up student loans and then commission active duty for 4 years. I'd be getting paid O-3 with 4 years in during residency, but my service obligation starts after residency so I'd be active 4 years after I complete my residency.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of these options. To my understanding, option 1 seems to be the best option, since I have more control over my options and seems to be more cost effective.

    I apologize once again because I may come across as lazy or arrogant for not searching this thread, but I did about an hour of reading and I just want clarification.

    Help? Thanks!
  30. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    ASR no longer exists. Your only Guard option in medical school (other than just being in the Guard and all the benefits that come to everyone for that) is MDSSP. Look through this thread and google and you'll learn plenty.
  31. dsl8va

    dsl8va

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    thanks for the update
    Last edited: 12.30.11
  32. DrRoast

    DrRoast

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    When did this happen? I would have never joined the Guard had I known this was the case.
  33. infirmarydude

    infirmarydude

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    There was a new policy memo this summer that stated that.

    From what I understand is that if you already signed the MDSSP contract prior to that change then it won't affect you.
  34. DrRoast

    DrRoast

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    I am an ASR with orders expiring 30 Jun 2012. Was planning on MDSSP for 4th year of school, and was originally told I could pay back the two years during the first year of residency when I swore in in '09. My guess is I'm Effed.

    The reason it matters is 1. I wanted to take HPLRP ASAP after residency, now that will be delayed 2 years. 2. I'm not sure I'm going to do a specialty on the War time shortage list, so I was contemplating switching to reserves for Loan Repayment, this will throw an axe in that as well.
  35. infirmarydude

    infirmarydude

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    Wow I can see how that can be frustrating, I'm expecting something like that to happen right before I'm eligible for HPLRP.

    Anyway, can't you just not take MDSSP and just get drill pay. Will that fit into your plan?
  36. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    Yeah, the Guard and Reserve have started doing much more intelligent program management than in the past.

    They've essentially closed all the loopholes that allowed folks to get benefits that they could payback and quit before they became deployable. No more ASR. No more taking MDSSP for 2 years and paying it back while in residency.

    Instead, they've shifted the funds into smarter recruiting, such as the big bump we got to HPLRP last year. At the end of the day, it doesn't make much sense to recruit medical students.
  37. DrRoast

    DrRoast

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    Yeah it would fit into my plan, it's just inconvenient as now I'll likely have to take out loans for living expenses which is not what I want to do. With the uncertainty in the future of healthcare reimbursement and the likelihood of them shafting me again in the future with HPLRP (like you mentioned) I just don't feel comfortable doing that.
  38. DrRoast

    DrRoast

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    Oh, I totally agree that this way is much more intelligent than the way they were doing it before and much better for the guard. I just feel like I was shafted, as I would not have joined the Guard had I known this was the case. I would have done Army HPSP so I would have had a contract in place and would have known exactly what I was getting into and wouldn't have to worry about them suddenly changing the rules on me.
  39. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    When I was ASRing and otherwise helping with recruiting, the one thing I tried to make crystal clear to candidates is that the only real benefits and opportunities are the ones available to you when signing. Everything else should be viewed as a potential benefit, because they can each go away or be modified at any time. I too joined hoping for HPLRP, but I did so knowing it may not be there by the time I finish residency. If it's not, I'm not feeling shafted, as it isn't real until I sign.
    If it's any consolation, you'll likely get much better training at a civilian residency program. You can then take either HPLRP or go active with a signing bonus, some of which are quite hefty.

    If you're thinking of sticking in the Army post-residency, I wouldn't a little bit of loans too much. Even in the less cush days, they always have had payment schemes.
  40. jkmph

    jkmph Non ducor, duco

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    What's the word on the street regarding book reimbursement. Anyone had any success?
  41. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    For who? I never had any luck as an ASR other than for the exam fees.
  42. jkmph

    jkmph Non ducor, duco

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    MDSSP. My admin assistants are saying they know of no programs for book reimbursement. Thought I'd bounce the idea around here....
  43. tech2doc

    tech2doc

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    Do any of the ASRs have any experience with taking a year off of medical school for any reason (i.e. a research fellowship, dual degree, etc.)? I have applied for the Doris Duke Fellowship and, pending acceptance, would really like to take it. However, I'm not sure how this would work with the ARNG. I will be coming off my three years of ASR orders at the end of June. Can I stay in 00E67 slot for an extra year without raising any eyebrows at the NGB?
  44. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    It's going to depend on your CO more than anything. The Guard can't stop you, but they could make it a headache. At the end of the day though they don't have a lot of motivation for screwing with you. Sure they could try to put you in an admin position, make you go to the MOS training, deploy you, etc. But why? To further delay how long it takes you to get an MD and destroy any desire you may have to stick around?

    I'm interested in doing something similar and when I asked about it a year or two ago I got relatively supportive answers. The main issues seemed to revolve around any ASR time I would have remaining which doesn't seem to be an issue for you...
  45. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    The issue isn't so much whether or not they'll let you do it (and DeadCactus is right on the money about that), but whether they'll let you back in.

    I looked into this for someone I was recruiting who wanted to take a year off between 3rd and 4th year. The Guard would allow him to do so and take him off of ASR orders while he did it. But they couldn't guarantee that when he came back to 4th year that they would be able to start him back on ASR orders, especially now that the program no longer exists.

    So I'd be relatively confident you can do it, but make the decision with the understanding you may not come back on ASR orders.
  46. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    Update on Post-9/11 GI Bill for ASRs:

    I applied and was denied and filed an appeal, which after 3 months came back also denied. It's a little irritating, because they mention the reason for denial being that ASR's are not AGR. As backing evidence, the second denial goes back and quotes the language of the law, which mentions that the Post-9/11 GI Bill includes folks on title 32 ordes for recruiting (i.e.: us) but makes no mention of AGR at all.

    There is a third level of appeal that I'm considering, but it's not looking good. Long and short of it, I would consider the Post-9/11 GI Bill largely a no-go for ASR's.
  47. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    I can't get copy and paste to work on the pdf, but I was reading the new 2012-2013 AMEDD Officer Incentive document. The MDSSP-STRAP portion caught my interest. Under 10b it talks about taking MDSSP followed by STRAP.

    If I'm reading it right, if you forego loan repayment your MDSSP repayment starts during STRAP and is also reduced by a year for every year in STRAP. That would mean (assuming a 3 year residency in an approved specialty) you could do 4 years of MDSSP, 3 years of STRAP, and 1 year of HPLRP in exchange for drilling during medical school/residency and for 6 years after. Am I getting that right?

    That's roughly $200k for a 6 year commitment to the Guard after residency and drilling during school. It's not ASR, but it's a pretty solid deal and in tune with what the AD side is offering...

    On a tangent, what happened with the MDSSP repayment changes? Did those end up applying to students who accepted MDSSP before the changes or only to people joining after?
  48. infirmarydude

    infirmarydude

    Joined:
    11.27.10
    Messages:
    118
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Army SDN 2+ Year Member
    notdeadyet - how do you access rosetta stone on AKO?

    also what other cool things can we find on AKO that could be useful?

    First drill (non-ASR) was great!

    Thanks for everything
  49. learnmore

    learnmore ASA Member

    Joined:
    01.11.07
    Messages:
    10
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
  50. learnmore

    learnmore ASA Member

    Joined:
    01.11.07
    Messages:
    10
    Status:
    Medical Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    notdeadyet - Thanks for pushing forward on the Post-9/11 GI Bill. Please let us know if see a sign of anything changing... I purposely haven't used any of my GI Bill because I was hoping we ASRs were going to be included. I've been told it shouldn't be a problem applying for MGIB-SR during residency. Does that seem true to you?

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