Army ROTC + Army HPSP = ?

[surfdoc84isin]

I already acquired a 4 year commitment through the Army ROTC program. I am considering taking the HPSP scholarship. However I am unsure of the paypack and would like a straight answer before signing my life away. The worst case scenerio would be a

4 years Army residency
4 years ROTC paypack
4 years HPSP paypack

I am not willing to do 12 years just so that my medical schooling will be paid for I don't really care how good the scholarship is loans are just as good.

However the 4 year ROTC contract is really bugging me. The only requirement is that I pay back 4 years of ACTIVE DUTY will my residency not be active duty therefore reducing my service to 8 years?

If I did not take the HPSP scholarship would I be able to do a military residency and payback my ROTC commitment thereby relieving myself of all obligations?

Thanks for the help

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[edmadison]

I already acquired a 4 year commitment through the Army ROTC program. I am considering taking the HPSP scholarship. However I am unsure of the paypack and would like a straight answer before signing my life away. The worst case scenerio would be a

4 years Army residency
4 years ROTC paypack
4 years HPSP paypack

I am not willing to do 12 years just so that my medical schooling will be paid for I don't really care how good the scholarship is loans are just as good.

However the 4 year ROTC contract is really bugging me. The only requirement is that I pay back 4 years of ACTIVE DUTY will my residency not be active duty therefore reducing my service to 8 years?

If I did not take the HPSP scholarship would I be able to do a military residency and payback my ROTC commitment thereby relieving myself of all obligations?

Thanks for the help

You would owe 8 years active duty post residency. You cannot pay active duty obligation while in training status. When thinking about obligations, it is best to take the MacDLT approach (keep each side separate). You have a 4 year ROTC scholarship obligation. HPSP will also be an additional 4 year scholarship obligation. These ADD so you get an 8 year scholarship obligation. A four year residency will incur a 3 year training obligation (internship doesn't count). You can serve your scholarship and training obligations at the same time. Thus, after three years as an attending physician, you will be done with your training obligation, but still have 5 left on scholarship obligation.

As for the last question, No, you can't relieve yourself of obligation. My understanding is that those with ROTC obligations and not HPSP/USUHS can apply for military GME. I do not know whether they are required to do so.

Make sense?

Ed

 

[jsnuka]

Let's look at this another way. Oblige me for a minute. I know this may sound illogical given the rigors of medical school, but what if the OP went to a reserve unit, say something in the training support division or AG or SC and went to drill on the weekends and used his summers "somehow" to get good years while in med school. His/her ROTC commitment would be fulfilled and then there is just the HPSP payback. The only hitch with this idea is the possibility of deployment. Being in a TSD unit may keep you away from an overseas deployment. Look into it--CAREFULLY and check to see what reserve units are close to where you will be going to medical school and discuss the matter with your PMS or APMS or someone else that you trust amongst your cadre.

On the other hand, why not apply to USUHS and then your payback obligations would coincide with one another?

 

[NavyFP]

I already acquired a 4 year commitment through the Army ROTC program. I am considering taking the HPSP scholarship. However I am unsure of the paypack and would like a straight answer before signing my life away. The worst case scenerio would be a

4 years Army residency
4 years ROTC paypack
4 years HPSP paypack

I am not willing to do 12 years just so that my medical schooling will be paid for I don't really care how good the scholarship is loans are just as good.

However the 4 year ROTC contract is really bugging me. The only requirement is that I pay back 4 years of ACTIVE DUTY will my residency not be active duty therefore reducing my service to 8 years?

If I did not take the HPSP scholarship would I be able to do a military residency and payback my ROTC commitment thereby relieving myself of all obligations?

Thanks for the help

You would have to serve a minimum of 12 years if you do a 4 year residency. ROTC is consecutive to HPSP. If you do not go to med school on the HPSP/USUHS route, you will have to do your time as a line officer. The Army may be different from the Navy, but we are not granting deferals for additional training.

You could do your ROTC time and then go to med school on your own dime, then you would only owe 4 years.

 

[Mirror Form]

If I did not take the HPSP scholarship would I be able to do a military residency and payback my ROTC commitment thereby relieving myself of all obligations?

Yes, you can do a military residency. However, military residencies won't pay off your active duty service obligation since they're considered to be training. I did ROTC and than paid for med school on my own with an education delay. Since the army needs doctors, they'll grant anyone an ed delay for medschool if they think the person can get in. In fact, it's probably to your advantage to apply for an education delay instead of the HPSP scholarship. The hpsp scholarship would sort of put you over the lifer hump.

In the above case, you would pay for med school yourself, then do a military residency, and then come out owing four years (most likely assuming you didn't rack up more commitment during residency, but that's a whole different conversation).

One nice perk of taking an ed delay over doing HPSP is that by paying for med school yourself, you'll rack up four years of service toward your payscale. So you'll be making great cash while in residency. Also, don't feel bad about missing out on the hpsp scholarship if you do decide to stay in. That's b/c if you finish your four years of obligation and decide that you want to stay in longer, you can sign up for a four year obligation extension while simultaneously negotiating a more cush assignemnt. By signing up for extra time, you'll get some nice bonues. So you'll still pretty much break even finacially while not limiting your options.

 

[midn]

Educational delay you say?

Can this be done with Navy ROTC?

 

[Tiger26]

I've said it before. I did ROTC, so I think I can answer this. Get a GRFD contract, contact the med recruiter for your state guard. You'll be non-deployable and either have 6 or 8 years to payback depending on your ROTC scholarship. Med school will eat up four years, and residency another 3-5. Non-deployable the whole time, plus you'll get drill pay, 75% tuition ($4500/year), GI bill, other incentives (these add more years though). If you really want, you can just get out when you're done w/o going anywhere.

 

[Mirror Form]

Educational delay you say?

Can this be done with Navy ROTC?

Yes, all branches give out education delays. They're not just for medicine.

 

[Mirror Form]

I've said it before. I did ROTC, so I think I can answer this. Get a GRFD contract, contact the med recruiter for your state guard. You'll be non-deployable and either have 6 or 8 years to payback depending on your ROTC scholarship. Med school will eat up four years, and residency another 3-5. Non-deployable the whole time, plus you'll get drill pay, 75% tuition ($4500/year), GI bill, other incentives (these add more years though). If you really want, you can just get out when you're done w/o going anywhere.

What's the commitment like with that? Won't you owe a few more years of reserve time once you finish your active duty commitment?

 

[midn]

I'm pretty sure Navy forces you to take the scholarship. Any Googling with "Navy ROTC educational delay" yielded nothing. I think I've had this discussion before. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[surfdoc84isin]

A four year residency will incur a 3 year training obligation (internship doesn't count). You can serve your scholarship and training obligations at the same time. Thus, after three years as an attending physician, you will be done with your training obligation, but still have 5 left on scholarship obligation.

Okay everything kinda of makes since. I don't see how serving an active duty military residency can add on a training obligation that doesn't seem to be right its not like the military facilities are that great, but I guess if it can be served concurrently thats alright.

I have been granted the ED-Delay so I would like to know more about the Military GME

 

[Mirror Form]

Okay everything kinda of makes since. I don't see how serving an active duty military residency can add on a training obligation that doesn't seem to be right its not like the military facilities are that great, but I guess if it can be served concurrently thats alright.

I have been granted the ED-Delay so I would like to know more about the Military GME

congrat on getting granted the ed-delay. You'll be required to apply to military gme just like the hpsp students though.

 

[colbgw02]

Like Mirror Form, I did the ROTC/non-HPSP route. A couple of tidbits...

1) Don't let the GME folks tell you that you can't do rotations at military medcens. Military GME puts a higher value on students who do a rotation with a program since there are relatively few from which to choose. Don't underestimate the importance of this. There are (at least currently) funds available specifically for you to do this, but even if you do it on your own dime, it's worth it if it means getting the specialty/location of your choice.

2) Having an active duty obligation AND medical school debt sucks donkey balls. Just something to think about.

3) Don't discount the value of those 4 years of service you'd get as a student. If you don't believe me, then look at the pay chart for an O-3 with zero and an O-3 with 4 years.

 

[surfdoc84isin]

2) Having an active duty obligation AND medical school debt sucks donkey balls. Just something to think about.

.

Which is one of the main reasons I will probably just suck it up and take the money

Thanks for everyones help

 

[alphagojo]

One nice perk of taking an ed delay over doing HPSP is that by paying for med school yourself, you'll rack up four years of service toward your payscale. So you'll be making great cash while in residency. Also, don't feel bad about missing out on the hpsp scholarship if you do decide to stay in. That's b/c if you finish your four years of obligation and decide that you want to stay in longer, you can sign up for a four year obligation extension while simultaneously negotiating a more cush assignemnt. By signing up for extra time, you'll get some nice bonues. So you'll still pretty much break even finacially while not limiting your options.

3) Don't discount the value of those 4 years of service you'd get as a student. If you don't believe me, then look at the pay chart for an O-3 with zero and an O-3 with 4 years.

So as HPSP med school grad, you are an 0-3 with zero years experience and as an ed delay grad you are an 0-3 with four years experience? Thanks for the help.

 

[colbgw02]

So as HPSP med school grad, you are an 0-3 with zero years experience and as an ed delay grad you are an 0-3 with four years experience? Thanks for the help.

I'm not sure how you could have read this thread and come to such a conclusion. Unless you have prior service outside of the medical corps, then any route that includes HPSP means you will enter as an O-3 with zero years.

If you do ROTC without HPSP but still go to medical school, then your years in IRR during school count toward pay. Not toward rank, not toward retirement, but toward pay only.

There's no particular rhyme or reason to this, except that without HPSP, the Army is free to pull an ROTC-trained IRR 2LT out of medical school to do anything they want you to. I think of the extra pay as a sort of compensation for the risk you run during medical school of not having your educational delay renewed.

 

[alphagojo]

I'm not sure how you could have read this thread and come to such a conclusion. Unless you have prior service outside of the medical corps, then any route that includes HPSP means you will enter as an O-3 with zero years.

If you do ROTC without HPSP but still go to medical school, then your years in IRR during school count toward pay. Not toward rank, not toward retirement, but toward pay only.

Ok, when I said four years experience, I meant towards pay only. My bad.

 

[Mirror Form]

There's no particular rhyme or reason to this, except that without HPSP, the Army is free to pull an ROTC-trained IRR 2LT out of medical school to do anything they want you to. I think of the extra pay as a sort of compensation for the risk you run during medical school of not having your educational delay renewed.

Actually, the pay is based on a very broad and general military ed-delay policy that luckily happens to encompass medicine.

Anytime you take an "ed-delay" and go get training that you pay for yourself, and then come back into the military using that training in a formal position, the military will count those years toward your payscale. This is so that you'll keep pace with your peers. Of course it medicine it actually puts us ahead of peers

 

[colbgw02]

Aha, good to know. Maybe now I can tell all my coworker former HPSPers to shut up about it.

 

[chenquistador]

I've said it before. I did ROTC, so I think I can answer this. Get a GRFD contract, contact the med recruiter for your state guard. You'll be non-deployable and either have 6 or 8 years to payback depending on your ROTC scholarship. Med school will eat up four years, and residency another 3-5. Non-deployable the whole time, plus you'll get drill pay, 75% tuition ($4500/year), GI bill, other incentives (these add more years though). If you really want, you can just get out when you're done w/o going anywhere.

This is exactly what I am doing. Guard has solid options to pay back your loans after you finish your 2nd year of residency. Your 6 years will be up by that time(perfect, actually) and you can decide whether or not to stay in for another few years, or leave. I believe You can also sign shorter contracts(1-2 years). In addition, you'll have 7+ years in the Reserves if you drill throughout med school. That's better pay once you come out, and you're almost to retirement already. Think about it as a part time job during med school. It's good offsetting the costs of rent and living expenses.

 

[Brownbeans]

Yes, you can do a military residency. However, military residencies won't pay off your active duty service obligation since they're considered to be training. I did ROTC and than paid for med school on my own with an education delay. Since the army needs doctors, they'll grant anyone an ed delay for medschool if they think the person can get in. In fact, it's probably to your advantage to apply for an education delay instead of the HPSP scholarship. The hpsp scholarship would sort of put you over the lifer hump.

In the above case, you would pay for med school yourself, then do a military residency, and then come out owing four years (most likely assuming you didn't rack up more commitment during residency, but that's a whole different conversation).

One nice perk of taking an ed delay over doing HPSP is that by paying for med school yourself, you'll rack up four years of service toward your payscale. So you'll be making great cash while in residency. Also, don't feel bad about missing out on the hpsp scholarship if you do decide to stay in. That's b/c if you finish your four years of obligation and decide that you want to stay in longer, you can sign up for a four year obligation extension while simultaneously negotiating a more cush assignemnt. By signing up for extra time, you'll get some nice bonues. So you'll still pretty much break even finacially while not limiting your options.

Would this be the same in the airforce? How hard is it to apply and be granted an educational delay? And lastly how would residencies work? Say you pay for your own med school, and just owe 4 years from ROTC undergrad, but would you also need to serve time for your residency that would be tacked on to the 4 years you owe since its training, or is it considered active duty? Thanks!