ArroWW game

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
It shouldn't have taken her saying that to make you lynch her. Criminals were being converted left and right. You guys had the ability to seer and even though Doc and told you guys I was working with him, decided to forego common sense and just lynch me instead of going with the safe play.

Doc also told us he was very suspicious of you as well... so what do I follow then?

Members don't see this ad.
 
Its not the amount of kills. Its that you needed us to do something unprecedented (use two kills on the same person at the same time) to stop an nearly* unprecedented mechanic (game over no matter what the numbers are)

*I guess you could say the WTF (SOV?) role from Jojo's game had an auto-game over too, but it would have been incredibly difficult to pull off.
 
Wow so it actually worked to our advantage to let Carbon and dpmd live.

You have no idea (well, SOV does) how many times we considered killing both of them, and decided someone else was a higher priority/likelihood of success
Carbon was protected almost every night of the game… you were lucky not to target her.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Doc also told us he was very suspicious of you as well... so what do I follow then?

This is incorrect. I said that the day I met lupin that I wasnt sure if i trusted either lupin or kaydubs.... then spent the next 3-4 rounds gushin about how useful lupin was and how she helped me find deathstroke and how much I did trust lupin.
 
Then blame carbon it seems....

Samoa wasn't unseerable, just very difficult and maybe unreasonably seerable, but it seems SOV built the mechanisms to require people to stick to it (with Nyanko getting to use her skill for more information each night).

Samoa flew under the radar, and while everyone is claiming they never trusted her, they got distracted elsewhere...

Samoa was unseerable.... she came back as Yeo Fei, she had a cover role.. that is unseerable....
 
Its not the amount of kills. Its that you needed us to do something unprecedented (use two kills on the same person at the same time) to stop an nearly* unprecedented mechanic (game over no matter what the numbers are)

*I guess you could say the WTF (SOV?) role from Jojo's game had an auto-game over too, but it would have been incredibly difficult to pull off.
what auto game over did she have in my game? i knew her character was broken and over powered, but she didn't have a game over mechanism ;)
 
Then blame carbon not sov?!? not his job to play the game for team arrow

I already did haha. she got a grumpy PM from me once it ended.

But as I said to you, when I died I thought you were making it up when you said she had that power. It wouldnt have shocked me to have it made up given..... some other stuff... that happened in the game.

But my cynicism was misplaced.
 
Its not the amount of kills. Its that you needed us to do something unprecedented (use two kills on the same person at the same time) to stop an nearly* unprecedented mechanic (game over no matter what the numbers are)

*I guess you could say the WTF (SOV?) role from Jojo's game had an auto-game over too, but it would have been incredibly difficult to pull off.
It's not unprecedented. I've definitely seen it before.
 
Fun games guys, thanks.

I felt pretty useless until nyanko died...and then died.....though having the hood night 1 and trying to block chilbo let me basically seer him as the arrow...I thought that was a major win on my part ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This is incorrect. I said that the day I met lupin that I wasnt sure if i trusted either lupin or kaydubs.... then spent the next 3-4 rounds gushin about how useful lupin was and how she helped me find deathstroke and how much I did trust lupin.

Yeah, I was frantically trying to re-read through our PMs while posting from my phone this morning. I saw your suspicions first. Then by the time I got to devyn claiming she couldn't be converted and you mentioning in PMs you trusted Lupin, it was too late, lynch had closed. I just didn't get caught up fast enough. And to be honest, had not checked the deadline, thought I had more time for some reason.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Its not the amount of kills. Its that you needed us to do something unprecedented (use two kills on the same person at the same time) to stop an nearly* unprecedented mechanic (game over no matter what the numbers are)

*I guess you could say the WTF (SOV?) role from Jojo's game had an auto-game over too, but it would have been incredibly difficult to pull off.
Doc… just try to take a step back.

If Carbon had shared her role to team Arrow, you would have checked out Samoa …. then this wouldn't be an issue.

So the problem is NOT game design.
It was a big error on team Arrow's part that cost the game.

Should a game resolve around one person's error?
Maybe not, but one important decision affects every game.

Still the WOLVES figured out that trying to use 2 people to kill might work, chillbo thought about it, certainly it wasn't impossible to figure out but harder without the role.. but I included it for a reason …. to be used. And I backed it up for a reason…. to be used.

If Sara was converted and you asked her to use the role, she would have been found out…

I think you are too caught up in the loss to see the game would have gone very differently …and that is what it is about.. people's decisions affect the outcome… from day 1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
what auto game over did she have in my game? i knew her character was broken and over powered, but she didn't have a game over mechanism ;)

Wouldnt she auto-win if she accomplished enough ridiculous stuff? I wouldnt even have mentioned it, because it wasnt much different from a regular 'chaos character' but i thought she could accrue enough points to acutally win the game automatically.
 
SOV said Nyanko would have seered her as a wolf, and would have gotten a role description that basically gave it away anyway.

I could have as well, after nyanko died...seeing as I inherited all of her results and could do the same thing.
 
SOV said Nyanko would have seered her as a wolf, and would have gotten a role description that basically gave it away anyway.
and if not nyanko, then SnS after nyanko died and she took over the role.

it seemed to be very difficult for the villagers to loose their information gathers...
 
It shouldn't have taken her saying that to make you lynch her. Criminals were being converted left and right. You guys had the ability to seer and even though Doc and told you guys I was working with him, decided to forego common sense and just lynch me instead of going with the safe play.

:rolleyes:

No they were not.... I was the only criminal who was converted originally.... then we tried to convert a bunch of ambigious villagers.... that didn't work, so then we converted FFM

so really only 2 criminals were converted.....
 
Doc… just try to take a step back.

If Carbon had shared her role to team Arrow, you would have checked out Samoa …. then this wouldn't be an issue.

So the problem is NOT game design.
It was a big error on team Arrow's part that cost the game.

Should a game resolve around one person's error?
Maybe not, but one important decision affects every game.

Still the WOLVES figured out that trying to use 2 people to kill might work, chillbo thought about it, certainly it wasn't impossible to figure out but harder without the role.. but I included it for a reason …. to be used. And I backed it up for a reason…. to be used.

If Sara was converted and you asked her to use the role, she would have been found out…

I think you are too caught up in the loss to see the game would have gone very differently …and that is what it is about.. people's decisions affect the outcome… from day 1.

Youre trying to cover your ass by saying that "There was a loophole to the ridiculous completely-out-of-the-spirit-of-ww mechanics I created. And because there was a loophole, its okay!". I would be bitching if we killed samoa. I would just be *gloating* and *bitching* together. Its a horrible game decision.
 
No we would get name, ability, alliance.

Didn't SOV just say you had to seer her 3 times though before getting she was a wolf? I swear I read that somewhere.

So Team Arrow never gets she is a wolf, the other seer has to do her 3 times, then we somehow have to come up with oh yeah... kill her with two of our team members (who by the way were just combined in order for us to do this maybe 2 or 3 nights ago).
 
Wouldnt she auto-win if she accomplished enough ridiculous stuff? I wouldnt even have mentioned it, because it wasnt much different from a regular 'chaos character' but i thought she could accrue enough points to acutally win the game automatically.
yes, you are correct... i thought you were referring to something else, so i didn't understand

her win condition with points was essentially unachievable until end game anyway, but yeah, she could have won the game earlier, but would have definitely deserved the win at that point ;)
 
Youre trying to cover your ass by saying that "There was a loophole to the ridiculous completely-out-of-the-spirit-of-ww mechanics I created. And because there was a loophole, its okay!". I would be bitching if we killed samoa. I would just be *gloating* and *bitching* together. Its a horrible game decision.
It wasn't a freaking loophole.
It was the design.

The wolves had their very freakishly difficult conversion process.
Team Arrow had to figure out how to find and kill the very difficult to kill first 2 wolves.

The wolves survived their difficult challenge
Team arrow failed. Villagers lost.

It was designed that way for a reason. It was carefully planned. Not a freaking loophole. I can't plan on people ignoring parts of their roles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
:rolleyes:

No they were not.... I was the only criminal who was converted originally.... then we tried to convert a bunch of ambigious villagers.... that didn't work, so then we converted FFM

so really only 2 criminals were converted.....
TRH was also a convert, but just happened to be shot the same night and SOV left her Criminal Blue. That makes 3. That to me is actually Left and Right and Left again. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Didn't SOV just say you had to seer her 3 times though before getting she was a wolf? I swear I read that somewhere.

So Team Arrow never gets she is a wolf, the other seer has to do her 3 times, then we somehow have to come up with oh yeah... kill her with two of our team members (who by the way were just combined in order for us to do this maybe 2 or 3 nights ago).
BUT DPMD was told Samoa was recruiting.. That was a HUGE giveaway she was a wolf. and the big risk of converting…. You didn't even have to seer her to figure it out.
EVeryone suspected her …
It wasn't a surprise to most she was a wolf… A wolf with an alias is hardly a new idea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Dude. I give you props for designing 23 characters very well. But I cant let go that you absolutely screwed the pooch with the 24th one. Its about the spirit of the game. you took everything that is WW endgame, took it outside and shot it in the back of the head. If you make someone who cannot die if a *very likely to occur* set of circumstances happens. Someone who is immine to both day and night kills. You've ruined the game. The game that, design wise, I loved 95% of.

You made a game where just as likely to happen as anything else, is an overwhelming.... 10 or 12 to 1 villager lead.... and a wolf win at that point. a 12-1 V:W ratio and the game over screen rolls for the villagers.
 
Not to Nyanko. (or to SnS).

2nd and/or 3rd investigations there would have revealed her.

2nd or 3rd...

Think of that. No one would get she is a wolf for a damn long time. You expect Team Arrow to coordinate to kill her which we didn't have all the members in one PM until very recently which makes it hard to coordinate anything. So we could not have 1. Found her as wolf and 2. Coordinated our kills to get rid of her in the amount of time we had in the game. It just is ridiculously unlikely that all of that would have fallen together in a way for it to work out in the end with a villager win.
 
2nd or 3rd...

Think of that. No one would get she is a wolf for a damn long time. You expect Team Arrow to coordinate to kill her which we didn't have all the members in one PM until very recently which makes it hard to coordinate anything. So we could not have 1. Found her as wolf and 2. Coordinated our kills to get rid of her in the amount of time we had in the game. It just is ridiculously unlikely that all of that would have fallen together in a way for it to work out in the end with a villager win.
I expected the being told when team Arrow members were recruited was going to be how the original wolf is found.
ANd I was right.

It just wasn't focused on enough.

And the wolves smartly were able to avoid any other team arrow members.. (the was the good part of the criminals all be revealed early.)
 
BUT DPMD was told Samoa was recruiting.. That was a HUGE giveaway she was a wolf. and the big risk of converting…. You didn't even have to seer her to figure it out.
EVeryone suspected her …
It wasn't a surprise to most she was a wolf… A wolf with an alias is hardly a new idea.

TRH was also trying to find someone too. I was trying to find people... it doesn't seem so far-fetched in a game where people are looking for others that Samoa was just one of them as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The amount of bitching here is utterly astounding......

Have I had issues with games and game design in the past?.... yes.... but do I go to these lengths to bitch the mod out? no....

and I could do so to the person who is whining the most right now....

I mean get over it and move on.... ffs
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
2nd or 3rd...

Think of that. No one would get she is a wolf for a damn long time. You expect Team Arrow to coordinate to kill her which we didn't have all the members in one PM until very recently which makes it hard to coordinate anything. So we could not have 1. Found her as wolf and 2. Coordinated our kills to get rid of her in the amount of time we had in the game. It just is ridiculously unlikely that all of that would have fallen together in a way for it to work out in the end with a villager win.
I think this is my biggest complaint of the game. I think this needed to be a 30+ player game with the level of complexity and discovering needed, and i think there might not have been enough kill attempts tbh.

but i like the attempt to do something different
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
TRH was also trying to find someone too. I was trying to find people... it doesn't seem so far-fetched in a game where people are looking for others that Samoa was just one of them as well.
That was a good smokescreen by Samoa.
No one else was told they were recruited.

And yet, people still tried to kill her….
 
I dunno. If someone suspicious turns out to be unlynchable, my FIRST investigation would be, " how can this person be killed?" Before I even ask for a role.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I think this is my biggest complaint of the game. I think this needed to be a 30+ player game with the level of complexity and discovering needed, and i think there might not have been enough kill attempts tbh.

but i like the attempt to do something different

I really do like the attempt to do something different. I really liked this game and had fun with it. But I think something needs to be changed with that one character design. It was near impossible to pin down everything we needed to do, coordinate it and finish it by the time the game came to an end. No player should have enough power that 5 of the main characters can be killed at once at end game.
 
The amount of bitching here is utterly astounding......

Have I had issues with games and game design in the past?.... yes.... but do I go to these lengths to bitch the mod out? no....

and I could do so to the person who is whining the most right now....

I mean get over it and move on.... ffs

There were other things going on behind the scenes that I wont air here. But lets say that it was bad enough that when someone told me that carbon had that power, Iassumed the mod was lying... not that samoa was unaware.
 
I'm done defending…

I made no apologies that it was going to be a difficult game.. and it was for most everyone involved.
I enjoyed it while it was going on and had no idea who was going to win.

Cheers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
I really do like the attempt to do something different. I really liked this game and had fun with it. But I think something needs to be changed with that one character design. It was near impossible to pin down everything we needed to do, coordinate it and finish it by the time the game came to an end. No player should have enough power that 5 of the main characters can be killed at once at end game.
WW is a big experiment... these games are always beta products, and things fall flat at times. Read my first post mortem post... I said I had mixed feelings about the mechanisms, and glad that I wasn't playing it... but I also find many redeeming qualities in what SOV did and someone has to stand up to DocE ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
*has flashback to beginning of the game*

"Night 1, no one died."

*imagines dpmd comes out with info immediately*

*town lynches Samoa, fails*

*everyone with a kill power attacks Samoa that night*

:heckyeah:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I really do like the attempt to do something different. I really liked this game and had fun with it. But I think something needs to be changed with that one character design. It was near impossible to pin down everything we needed to do, coordinate it and finish it by the time the game came to an end. No player should have enough power that 5 of the main characters can be killed at once at end game.
That wasn't really a power. It seemed meaningless to continue a farce once samoa couldn't be killed.

*has flashback to beginning of the game*

"Night 1, no one died."

*imagines dpmd comes out with info immediately*

*town lynches Samoa, fails*

*everyone with a kill power attacks Samoa that night*

:heckyeah:
I actually thought this was going to happen, that more than 1 person would attack Samoa that night, was kind of surprised it didn't. And then dds would have picked up the torch.

Although it wasn't night 1. It was night 2.
 
Last edited:
*has flashback to beginning of the game*

"Night 1, no one died."

*imagines dpmd comes out with info immediately*

*town lynches Samoa, fails*

*everyone with a kill power attacks Samoa that night*

:heckyeah:
BTW, i was soo upset you got to be Arrow.

I doubted your inclusion in the game, and then you become an alpha villager? Son of a female dog (keeping it Pre-vet appropriate)! ;)
 
Top