Ask the Program Coordinator!

[Cytarabine]

I think most programs would define "ranked to match" as the applicant's rank being within the program's quota (Ranks #1-4 when the quota is 4). The applicant is guaranteed to match at the program if the applicant ranks the program first. Beyond that, I think it would be more honest for a program to say "likely to match" rather than "ranked to match" and that rank number would vary significantly from program to program and specialty to specialty depending on the size and competitiveness of the program. So don't worry too much about that part--just rank according to where you want to be while giving due consideration to all of the factors that are most important to your success and happiness as a resident. Then trust that the process will work.

I know of an instance where the words "ranked to match" were used in the sense that the applicant was ranked within the extent of the list that almost always ends up matching (e.g. 50th in a program that usually goes to 80 on their rank), and that applicant didn't match the program. I don't think it's said with any malignant intention, but I agree with thinking it's less than honest. I think the movement by medicine and med/peds programs to refrain from post-interview love letters is a noble one. It's turned me off from the handful of programs who have sent love letters out given the current shift away from it.

Since OP is applying in Surgery I hope your version is accurate for her. It's just that I've never had a chair be involved enough in the day-to-day to even really meet individual candidates, let alone want one. This has been at academic powerhouse programs where the Chairs have been <20% clinical, and less academic regional campus-type programs where the Chairs have been based far away, at the "mothership."

My experience in med/peds has been much more in line with yours - the chairs of medicine/peds usually drop in and show their faces, but they didn't interview at any programs. If they have much input on who gets ranked, it would be just based on their notions of applicants on paper

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[fatherdoc3]

I applied to a dual program (my #1 program) through the AOA but did not match. Is it worth it to rank them again through ACGME or would it be a waste? I've thought about emailing the program and asking them this question but was afraid it could be construed as a match violation.

 

[gutonc]

I applied to a dual program (my #1 program) through the AOA but did not match. Is it worth it to rank them again through ACGME or would it be a waste? I've thought about emailing the program and asking them this question but was afraid it could be construed as a match violation.

You don't understand the Match algorithm, do you? Why wouldn't you rank it?

 

[mvenus929]

In other words, you lose absolutely nothing by ranking it. If you don't rank it, you definitely won't match; if you do rank it, you could match there. If the program ranked you, you have a non-zero chance of matching. If the program didn't rank you, you just fall lower on your list as if you didn't rank them at all.

As to whether or not the program wants you--maybe they only put like 2 slots in the AOA match (or 20%, depending on the size of the program), and the rest in the ACGME match. You don't know, and won't know, and again, you lose absolutely nothing by ranking them. Except maybe some money.

 

[fatherdoc3]

In other words, you lose absolutely nothing by ranking it. If you don't rank it, you definitely won't match; if you do rank it, you could match there. If the program ranked you, you have a non-zero chance of matching. If the program didn't rank you, you just fall lower on your list as if you didn't rank them at all.

As to whether or not the program wants you--maybe they only put like 2 slots in the AOA match (or 20%, depending on the size of the program), and the rest in the ACGME match. You don't know, and won't know, and again, you lose absolutely nothing by ranking them. Except maybe some money.

Thank you, I was referring more to the second part as I do actually know how the match works. Obviously I didn't state it very well. I'll chalk it up to being distressed at not matching. Anyways, I had hoped I had a better chance matching AOA (less people to contend with) but will certainly list them in ACGME though they already filled over half of their spots. They have 4 left so I feel like if I didn't match AOA then I definitely won't match ACGME due to more applicants.

 

[Polymyxin]

I didn't do so great on Step 2 CK, but luckily my specialty does not use it or require it to rank. However, one program requires it. Within ERAS, is it possible to re-transmit scores to just one program (or, does hitting the re-transmit button send all your the USMLE score to all of your applied programs)?

 

[gutonc]

I didn't do so great on Step 2 CK, but luckily my specialty does not use it or require it to rank. However, one program requires it. Within ERAS, is it possible to re-transmit scores to just one program (or, does hitting the re-transmit button send all your the USMLE score to all of your applied programs)?

All or nothing.

 

[j4pac]

So I'm kind of in a dilemma. I am an IMG with only 4 interviews. We all know how competitive it is to match so Im holding to these interviews as tight as I can. Over the past week, one of the programs that I interviewed back in October have constantly sent me personalized love emails saying they want me and how I would be a great fit. Multiple faculty members and the PD have sent me emails over the past week. Now I have ranked this program #2 but I know that from the tone of the email it sounds like they want to see where I ranked them to see how interested I am. I feel like if I send them anything but a "I am going to rank you #1" email they will look at it as Im not as interested so I will drop down a bit from their list. I dont mind at all matching there and I know if I tell them I will be ranking them #1 they are going to rank me near the top. (They have been calling me, emailing me all throughout the season) How do I approach this and convey to them that I reallly want to match there without telling them theyre number 1?

You could tell the program their number 1 and then rank them #2. What's stopping you? Ahh...morals.

If program #2 is truly threatening you...you have to do what you have to do to match.

 

[p1ggy]

I emailed both my #1 and #2 places, saying how much I loved the program and hoping I would match there. I let my #1 know that I'm ranking them #1. I haven't heard a reply, no generic response even. Should I be worried? I'm definitely not changing my rank list, but wondering if that means that I should not get my hopes up

 

[j4pac]

I emailed both my #1 and #2 places, saying how much I loved the program and hoping I would match there. I let my #1 know that I'm ranking them #1. I haven't heard a reply, no generic response even. Should I be worried? I'm definitely not changing my rank list, but wondering if that means that I should not get my hopes up

Post interview chatter or the lack there of means nothing.

I matched at my first choice last year. I let the PD know I was ranking his program #1 and heard nothing back until after I matched.

 

[Cadet133]

How do programs rank people solely based on interview experience? What if multiple people had great interview experiences? Are there any other factors used to rsnk candidates?

 

[pd1112]

How do programs rank people solely based on interview experience? What if multiple people had great interview experiences? Are there any other factors used to rsnk candidates?

What do you think?

 

[Frederica]

How do programs rank people solely based on interview experience? What if multiple people had great interview experiences? Are there any other factors used to rsnk candidates?

I would be surprised if a program ranked applicants solely on an interview. In our rank meeting one attending was arguing that interviews aren't a good indication of job performance, they were really focusing on board scores.

 

[gabdel]

Would it be considered a match violation if I told a program they are number 1 when in fact they weren't? Can they report me if I dont match there?

 

[mvenus929]

Would it be considered a match violation if I told a program they are number 1 when in fact they weren't? Can they report me if I dont match there?

For the umpteenth time, it is unethical, but not a match violation. A match violation would be 'I will only rank you #1 if you also rank me #1' or something along those lines. People tell programs that they are #1 all the time, some programs send messages either stating or implying the applicant will match, and something breaks down all the time. It's not a violation, but I wouldn't recommend doing it because it could mean burning bridges, especially if you are in a relatively small field.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Would it be considered a match violation if I told a program they are number 1 when in fact they weren't? Can they report me if I dont match there?

 

[Girlontherun]

Is it a bad sign if I sent a love email to a program that I rotated at and didnt receive a response but someone else who did rotate there DID receive a response to their love email?

 

[gutonc]

Is it a bad sign if I sent a love email to a program that I rotated at and didnt receive a response but someone else who did rotate there DID receive a response to their love email?

See the post above yours for the most appropriate answer.

Unless you're trolling. In which case #slowclap.

 

[cyanide12345678]

This is probably one of the best threads I've seen on SDN. I am a US grad but will have an IMG spouse applying in a year. My question is the following:

1) Most IMGs I know are now doing USMLE step 3 before their application is turned in. Does a program even care about whether an IMG has done Step 3? Are there situations in which a step 3 score can be beneficial to an IMG.

 

[DrKabi]

This is probably one of the best threads I've seen on SDN. I am a US grad but will have an IMG spouse applying in a year. My question is the following:

1) Most IMGs I know are now doing USMLE step 3 before their application is turned in. Does a program even care about whether an IMG has done Step 3? Are there situations in which a step 3 score can be beneficial to an IMG.

You need to have taken USMLE step 3 to be eligible for an H1B visa. This is a work visa and allows you to apply for a green card while you are on that visa. Without Step 3 you will only be eligible for a J1 visa which is a training visa with a two year clause stipulating you return to your home country for at least two years after residency. Of course you can go through the visa waiver program to avoid this by working in an underserved area designated by the federal government for 3-5 years before being eligible to apply for a green card. All the above obviously would not apply to your spouse if she is a US citizen or has a green card already. So most IMGs like myself clear step 3 to get better visa options and of course it helps to get it out of the way before the start of intern year. That said if you scored very highly on step 3 it will be noticed by PDs and might even get mentioned during your IVs. I got a 252 on the test and this was noted by almost all my interviewers. I think it certainly was a positive.

 

[cyanide12345678]

You need to have taken USMLE step 3 to be eligible for an H1B visa. This is a work visa and allows you to apply for a green card while you are on that visa. Without Step 3 you will only be eligible for a J1 visa which is a training visa with a two year clause stipulating you return to your home country for at least two years after residency. Of course you can go through the visa waiver program to avoid this by working in an underserved area designated by the federal government for 3-5 years before being eligible to apply for a green card. All the above obviously would not apply to your spouse if she is a US citizen or has a green card already. So most IMGs like myself clear step 3 to get better visa options and of course it helps to get it out of the way before the start of intern year. That said if you scored very highly on step 3 it will be noticed by PDs and might even get mentioned during your IVs. I got a 252 on the test and this was noted by almost all my interviewers. I think it certainly was a positive.

Thank you for the response. The visa issue makes a lot of sense.

 

[Girlontherun]

Gutonc, damn you and your nefarious plan. You have seen right through me.

 

[Sea_Bass]

that does border on a match violation.

there is no reason to say anything to them at all or at best a noncommittal thank you, I really liked your program.

Where is the match violation?

Edit: It isn't. Did not read the posts above. Whoopsie.

 

[gabdel]

I guess I'm still not clear how an applicant distinguishes themselves during an interview day from anyone else.

Assuming you're not a sociopath and also have basic social skills, I'd imagine most can have a pleasant and uncontroversial conversation with faculty and residents in 20 minute chunks without doing anything outrageous. Given that it's also a formal setting, I can't imagine too many people are letting their life-of-the-party, giant personalities loose either. So if applicants are blunting the lows and the highs and just maintaining a pleasant, professional demeanor, it seems they'd all just blend together as middle-of-the-road. So how does it help?

 

[CopaceticOne]

I guess I'm still not clear how an applicant distinguishes themselves during an interview day from anyone else.

Assuming you're not a sociopath and also have basic social skills, I'd imagine most can have a pleasant and uncontroversial conversation with faculty and residents in 20 minute chunks without doing anything outrageous. Given that it's also a formal setting, I can't imagine too many people are letting their life-of-the-party, giant personalities loose either. So if applicants are blunting the lows and the highs and just maintaining a pleasant, professional demeanor, it seems they'd all just blend together as middle-of-the-road. So how does it help?

You'd be surprised how an experienced interviewer can get an applicant to show the crazy rather quickly during an interview.

 

[pd1112]

I guess I'm still not clear how an applicant distinguishes themselves during an interview day from anyone else.

Assuming you're not a sociopath and also have basic social skills, I'd imagine most can have a pleasant and uncontroversial conversation with faculty and residents in 20 minute chunks without doing anything outrageous. Given that it's also a formal setting, I can't imagine too many people are letting their life-of-the-party, giant personalities loose either. So if applicants are blunting the lows and the highs and just maintaining a pleasant, professional demeanor, it seems they'd all just blend together as middle-of-the-road. So how does it help?

Is it that hard to imagine how differently 2 people, let alone 15-25+, might answer any given question, and how differently any given answer might be received by different interviewers? And that's just the responses themselves. You also have to consider nonverbals, energy, demeanor, appearance, etc etc etc.

 

[J ROD]

You'd be surprised how an experienced interviewer can get an applicant to show the crazy rather quickly during an interview.

Very true. I learned in my Master in Human Resources how to get all kinds of info. I know it helped me on interviews. I just hated the interviews that felt more like a "session" with a Psychiatrist.

More than a few times I felt I needed to ask for a bill!

 

[killerleaf]

During the face to face part of the interviews, yeah, your crazy may not show. However, we are watching you thru the whole day....so most people get a little relaxed over the breakfast or the lunch...and the crazy just slips out. or they think that it is no big deal to talk down to the coordinator, or the janitor--we are watching. if you are psycho, we can usually tell.

 

[J ROD]

During the face to face part of the interviews, yeah, your crazy may not show. However, we are watching you thru the whole day....so most people get a little relaxed over the breakfast or the lunch...and the crazy just slips out. or they think that it is no big deal to talk down to the coordinator, or the janitor--we are watching. if you are psycho, we can usually tell.

Damn, I guess telling her to get my damn latte was wrong.....lol

 

[triathlondoc12]

Question for Prog Coordinator... I am switching residency fields and I have heard that the new program that takes me will want some sort of letter from my PD which can be received after the match even. just wondering what this needs to say and will I just need to touch base with the new program to facilitate them getting this letter from my current PD? thanks!

 

[Frederica]

The letter should address your standing in the 6 ACGME core competencies: Patient Care, Medical Knowledge, Systems-Based Practice, Practice-Based Learning, Professionalism, and Interpersonal Communication Skills.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Question for Prog Coordinator... I am switching residency fields and I have heard that the new program that takes me will want some sort of letter from my PD which can be received after the match even. just wondering what this needs to say and will I just need to touch base with the new program to facilitate them getting this letter from my current PD? thanks!

They will typically want that letter from your former PD PRIOR to a match and usually before an interview invite is given.

 

[epsilonprodigy]

Edit: please disregard, I answered my own question

 

[letmeinwillya]

Hi,
I would like to express my gratitude for the PCs, PDs and active members who have given their time and shared their expertise here. Thanks to Almighty God, I matched!!

I have been contemplating name change for a long time but always thought that I didn't want to introduce a new variable in the mix.

I'm a US-IMG, ECFMG certified. I am thinking of changing my name from "John Doe" to "Robert Johnson", reason is personal. Will start residency in July 2016 and thinking that it may be good idea to have the legal name change done before starting residency, totally clueless about the process and if there are any major drawback lurking in future.

Do I need to get my medical school diploma reissued? Could there be an issue with someone/entity verifying my background based on "Robert Johnson" and not finding any records for "Robert Johnson" because all the school records would have "John Doe" in there.

Do PCs come across such requests and what's the proper way of approaching this issue with them once I find out which program I matched on Friday? I assume there's a lot of behind the scenes work that goes on to get the paper work in order and various other things in the internal system not to mention some sort of notification to external/third party entities about residents being at certain program. I'm thinking https://www.doximity.com or healthgrades.com etc

I would be signing the contract under "John Doe" so will PC have resign at a later date when my legal name change goes through.

I have not started any of the process but still in the evaluating stage of whether this will turn out to be a big mistake or just fine?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

 

[mcl]

Hi,
I would like to express my gratitude for the PCs, PDs and active members who have given their time and shared their expertise here. Thanks to Almighty God, I matched!!

I have been contemplating name change for a long time but always thought that I didn't want to introduce a new variable in the mix.

I'm a US-IMG, ECFMG certified. I am thinking of changing my name from "John Doe" to "Robert Johnson", reason is personal. Will start residency in July 2016 and thinking that it may be good idea to have the legal name change done before starting residency, totally clueless about the process and if there are any major drawback lurking in future.

Do I need to get my medical school diploma reissued? Could there be an issue with someone/entity verifying my background based on "Robert Johnson" and not finding any records for "Robert Johnson" because all the school records would have "John Doe" in there.

Do PCs come across such requests and what's the proper way of approaching this issue with them once I find out which program I matched on Friday? I assume there's a lot of behind the scenes work that goes on to get the paper work in order and various other things in the internal system not to mention some sort of notification to external/third party entities about residents being at certain program. I'm thinking https://www.doximity.com or healthgrades.com etc

I would be signing the contract under "John Doe" so will PC have resign at a later date when my legal name change goes through.

I have not started any of the process but still in the evaluating stage of whether this will turn out to be a big mistake or just fine?

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Coordinators often have to deal with name changes that occur between Match and the start of residency--most of the time it's due to marriage, but the procedure would be the same. At my institution, the name on your Social Security Card on April 10th is the name we have to use to appoint you in Payroll. All official paperwork, such as training license, insurance, background check, etc, should use this name. If your name is changed on your Social Security Card after that date, I'd wait until you'd actually started residency to go through the name-change process (you'd need to provide the official documentation of the name change and your new SSC). There are, however, certain things that can be set up (and we'd prefer to have set up) using the name you'll be known by eventually--things like your name embroidered on your lab coat and your institutional email.

Once you find out where you Match, let the PC know about your planned name change and the two of you can develop the best strategy that will create the least confusion going forward.

 

[letmeinwillya]

Thank you mcl! Good advice. I'm wondering if one enters the residency with current name as there won't be enough time between now and when the the whole name change goes through (time it take may vary from state to state) and finally completes the residency with a different name. Is that problematic?

Also what if one were to complete the residency and then get the who name change done? I just don't know if a physician gets licensed and then wants to change the name completely, is that better than doing it during residency so there's no history built up in "professional" life and will be kinda fresh start with a new name?

Thanks again for your insightful reply.

 

[mon2016]

Hi Freddie and all the other PD, PCs here,
Thank you so much for offering your help. I didn't match this year (applied to Pathology and Internal Medicine) and I'm trying to figure out how to improve my application for next year. I am an old grad (2003) and have not been in contact with clinical work since (with the exception of an observership). I have been training (PhD)/working in research ever since. I was told by one program that they only review applications form older grads (more than 5 years) if they passed step 3. I'm just trying to figure out how much the step 3 would help. Do you know if a lot of programs require this exam for older grads?
Thank you again!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Hi Freddie and all the other PD, PCs here,
Thank you so much for offering your help. I didn't match this year (applied to Pathology and Internal Medicine) and I'm trying to figure out how to improve my application for next year. I am an old grad (2003) and have not been in contact with clinical work since (with the exception of an observership). I have been training (PhD)/working in research ever since. I was told by one program that they only review applications form older grads (more than 5 years) if they passed step 3. I'm just trying to figure out how much the step 3 would help. Do you know if a lot of programs require this exam for older grads?
Thank you again!

Are you even able to take Step 3 now? There's generally a 7 year window to complete all of your steps...

 

[mon2016]

Are you even able to take Step 3 now? There's generally a 7 year window to complete all of your steps...

yes, I am.

 

[Animalcules]

Just curious. When do PDs get the list of applicants that matched into their program? Monday or Friday?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

yes, I am.

Then you should take it... Given you have been out of clinic medicine, you should do some heavy review...

 

[one11]

Just curious. When do PDs get the list of applicants that matched into their program? Monday or Friday?

Programs only know if they filled their quota now. They will know their intern class on Thursday, but it is supposed to be "Confidential Roster" until Friday 1.00pm when it is not "Confidential Roster" any more.

 

[gutonc]

Hi Freddie and all the other PD, PCs here,
Thank you so much for offering your help. I didn't match this year (applied to Pathology and Internal Medicine) and I'm trying to figure out how to improve my application for next year. I am an old grad (2003) and have not been in contact with clinical work since (with the exception of an observership). I have been training (PhD)/working in research ever since. I was told by one program that they only review applications form older grads (more than 5 years) if they passed step 3. I'm just trying to figure out how much the step 3 would help. Do you know if a lot of programs require this exam for older grads?
Thank you again!

You, and probably many others, will say I'm being a jerk when I say this...and that's fine, I can accept that.

But here's the Buddha's honest truth....

Sorry bro...it's not happening for you. The IMG/PhD/US Residency pathway is drying up. And if you're looking at 15 years on that pathway (+/- a year or 5), it's just not realistic.

Either go all in on your PhD/Post-Doc or, if you need to be a doctor, go home. You've got nothing to lose (other than money, time and ego) by applying again next year. But your likelihood of success is already near zero, and only getting closer as time goes on.

 

[mon2016]

Then you should take it... Given you have been out of clinic medicine, you should do some heavy review...

Thank you. Any particular reason for your advice? Is this something that PDs put a lot of weight on? And yes, of course I would need to study hard...like for any of the other steps. The reason I'm still eligible for Step 3 is because I have only taken the other steps recently (last 2-3 years; step 2 CS last year) so I definitely needed a lot of studying but at least I had to study for these steps so hopefully that will help a little. I know the style of this exam is different but I'll obviously adjust the exam preparation accordingly. It won't be easy and since I'm working full time I won't have a lot of time for it, that's why I'm trying to figure out if it's really worth it. Thanks for your help.

 

[mon2016]

You, and probably many others, will say I'm being a jerk when I say this...and that's fine, I can accept that.

But here's the Buddha's honest truth....

Sorry bro...it's not happening for you. The IMG/PhD/US Residency pathway is drying up. And if you're looking at 15 years on that pathway (+/- a year or 5), it's just not realistic.

Either go all in on your PhD/Post-Doc or, if you need to be a doctor, go home. You've got nothing to lose (other than money, time and ego) by applying again next year. But your likelihood of success is already near zero, and only getting closer as time goes on.

I've seen your other posts and expected this kind of response from you. I just wanted to know how much programs appreciate step 3, the rest is my decision to make.

 

[one11]

I've seen your other posts and expected this kind of response from you. I just wanted to know how much programs appreciate step 3, the rest is my decision to make.

From NRMP
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf

PDs consider Step 3 the least important factor in interviewing/ranking applicants, and they put another 38 factors more important than Step 3. That being said, you mentioned you want pathology, I do not know what your PhD is about, but if it is something related to pathology you may have a chance. Let's face it, the last time a pathologist talked to a patient is in 4th year .

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thank you. Any particular reason for your advice? Is this something that PDs put a lot of weight on? And yes, of course I would need to study hard...like for any of the other steps. The reason I'm still eligible for Step 3 is because I have only taken the other steps recently (last 2-3 years; step 2 CS last year) so I definitely needed a lot of studying but at least I had to study for these steps so hopefully that will help a little. I know the style of this exam is different but I'll obviously adjust the exam preparation accordingly. It won't be easy and since I'm working full time I won't have a lot of time for it, that's why I'm trying to figure out if it's really worth it. Thanks for your help.

You have alot more red flags going on than just Step 3, though. Your time from graduation and lack of current clinical activity are your biggest hurdles. Having Step 3 done is one less worry that the program wouldn't have if you were to be a resident.

I do agree with @gutonc though, in that your chances are pretty low. Good luck.

 

[mcl]

Thank you mcl! Good advice. I'm wondering if one enters the residency with current name as there won't be enough time between now and when the the whole name change goes through (time it take may vary from state to state) and finally completes the residency with a different name. Is that problematic?

Also what if one were to complete the residency and then get the who name change done? I just don't know if a physician gets licensed and then wants to change the name completely, is that better than doing it during residency so there's no history built up in "professional" life and will be kinda fresh start with a new name?

Thanks again for your insightful reply.

Name changes during residency require extra paperwork and don't happen instantaneously even when the paperwork gets submitted--you'll need to be patient. That said, it's not uncommon and not problematic in the long run. If you want to change your name, go ahead--just let your PC know once you find out where you match, and always keep the official documentation of the name change handy so you can submit it for your future licensing/credentialing needs. Basically, same advice for waiting to change your name until after your complete residency: You'd provide whatever authority you're addressing with a copy of the marriage license or court order that changed your name along with your current SSC (with the new name), and it won't matter what name is on your diplomas because you have proof that you are the same person. However, if you change during residency, at least you'd have an administrative person (your PC) who has likely done this before and could help with the process.

 

[zzlaf]

Question for the Program director: I matched into an advanced program in PMR, but did not match prelim. (US-IMG, so no "home program" to contact). I received a few calls yesterday from Prelim Surgery, but what are my options going forward? Can I contact the program I think I matched into and let them know the situation and hope for some assistance?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Question for the Program director: I matched into an advanced program in PMR, but did not match prelim. (US-IMG, so no "home program" to contact). I received a few calls yesterday from Prelim Surgery, but what are my options going forward? Can I contact the program I think I matched into and let them know the situation and hope for some assistance?

As @gutonc said, if you know what city you matched into and that was the only place you ranked in that city, go ahead and call them and let them know your situation. If you can't find anything via SOAP, then you need to have your Advanced program helping you look as well. You should enlist anyone you trained under as a med student that might be able to help you. Barring that, even cold calling programs after the match is over would be worthwhile for you.