Asked to go get coffee for a doctor

[general admission]

(please don't quote this post, thanks) What do you do in this situation? I was asked a few days ago and it's been on my mind. I very very respectfully declined.

I was repeatedly told during orientation that you are NOT to do anything like this, that docs are told not to make students do it, and to report it if it happens. What made me feel kind of bad is that he has gotten snacks for the staff before. But he seemed very, very understanding and sincere, saying not to worry about it. When I tried to approach him later to explain, he completely reassure me not to worry before I could even get any words out.

Did I do the right thing? Or should I legit just not worry about it?

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[Pons Asinorum]

Go get that **** with a smile and a little pep in your step. If it's every day, another thing. Just act like you know your place on the totem.

 

[general admission]

Go get that **** with a smile and a little pep in your step. If it's every day, another thing. Just act like you know your place on the totem.

I do, the question is whether my place on the totem comes with tasks like that. There's a difference between "Hey I'm at blah blah do you want anything?" and "Oh, go grab this for me". I always happily grab labs, copies, patient info (stuff having to do with patient care) but this just seemed different.

 

[VisionaryTics]

 

[Wordead]

Seems like a stupid thing to make a stand on considering you were already doing other scut, but probably not a big deal

 

[Apoplexy__]

(please don't quote this post, thanks) What do you do in this situation? I was asked a few days ago and it's been on my mind. I very very respectfully declined.

I was repeatedly told during orientation that you are NOT to do anything like this, that docs are told not to make students do it, and to report it if it happens. What made me feel kind of bad is that he has gotten snacks for the staff before. But he seemed very, very understanding and sincere, saying not to worry about it. When I tried to approach him later to explain, he completely reassure me not to worry before I could even get any words out.

Did I do the right thing? Or should I legit just not worry about it?

If your school explicitly says not to do it, that's completely different. You have a concrete reason to decline and should not feel bad about doing so.

But I have to say, it wouldn't have even crossed my mind as degrading in the first place. In the future, maybe only decline things like that if you have a good reason to, like you did in this situation.

 

[cbrons]

Go get that **** with a smile and a little pep in your step. If it's every day, another thing. Just act like you know your place on the totem.

Yea you screwed up IMO.


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[cbrons]

I do, the question is whether my place on the totem comes with tasks like that. There's a difference between "Hey I'm at blah blah do you want anything?" and "Oh, go grab this for me". I always happily grab labs, copies, patient info (stuff having to do with patient care) but this just seemed different.

They shouldn't be asking you to be their waitress considering you are paying a lot of money to be there. But it was just a coffee one time and you should have done it.


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[colbgw02]

(please don't quote this post, thanks) What do you do in this situation? I was asked a few days ago and it's been on my mind. I very very respectfully declined.

I was repeatedly told during orientation that you are NOT to do anything like this, that docs are told not to make students do it, and to report it if it happens. What made me feel kind of bad is that he has gotten snacks for the staff before. But he seemed very, very understanding and sincere, saying not to worry about it. When I tried to approach him later to explain, he completely reassure me not to worry before I could even get any words out.

Did I do the right thing? Or should I legit just not worry about it?

I hate this $hit. This clown had no business asking you to do this. Even asking "respectfully" is a no-go, in my opinion. "Would you feel comfortable picking up dinner for the team?" is still off-limits as far as I'm concerned. I was taught that such questions aren't really questions, but rather polite instructions, so I hate it when people don't recognize that. Have some wherewithal and recognize the awkward position you're putting this person in.

That said, you should have done it with a smile. In the moment, you're not going to look good by declining, even if it ultimately doesn't hurt you. If it's an isolated incident, it's probably not worth making a stink, but you would have been well within your rights to bring it up to your rotation coordinator.

 

[Beargryllz]

It's a test to see if you're a little bitch

You're not. This is a good thing

 

[DrBowtie]

With you gone getting coffee the doc can finally get some efficient work done and maybe by the time you got back there would be time for teaching.

Know the Rules:
SHOW ME A BMS WHO ONLY TRIPLES MY WORK AND I WILL KISS HIS FEET.

 

[swoopyswoop]

my fellow asked me to get coffee for him once and told me to get some for myself too. to be fair, he was covered in blood and couldn't go down to the "public" part of the hospital looking that way...

 

[inmyslumber]

Before a meeting started, I asked a med student to get me coffee and get one for themselves as well. I paid. I did apologize half-heartedly but I just really wanted a coffee. I did not really think much of it. The other students might have even thought I was playing favorites since I felt comfortable asking this particular student.

When I was a med student, I got coffee for my attending when asked. They always paid.

Don't overthink the situation.

 

[DermViser]

I hate this $hit. This clown had no business asking you to do this. Even asking "respectfully" is a no-go, in my opinion. "Would you feel comfortable picking up dinner for the team?" is still off-limits as far as I'm concerned. I was taught that such questions aren't really questions, but rather polite instructions, so I hate it when people don't recognize that. Have some wherewithal and recognize the awkward position you're putting this person in.

That said, you should have done it with a smile. In the moment, you're not going to look good by declining, even if it ultimately doesn't hurt you. If it's an isolated incident, it's probably not worth making a stink, but you would have been well within your rights to bring it up to your rotation coordinator.

Please tell me you're joking.

 

[colbgw02]

Please tell me you're joking.

Nope. Why would you think I was?

 

[DermViser]

Nope. Why would you think I was?

Because picking up coffee and getting dinner for the team, including yourself, is not scutting yourself out. Sorry.

 

[general admission]

Because picking up coffee and getting dinner for the team, including yourself, is not scutting yourself out. Sorry.

Then what is?

It is not involved directly in patient care as well as explicitly forbidden per the rules at my school.

 

[AMEHigh]

Then what is?

It is not involved directly in patient care as well as explicitly forbidden per the rules at my school.

Being part of a team?

Outside of the medical world I've picked up coffee for my boss or colleagues over the years. I've never worked with anyone that's a blatant dingus, so we would do each other favors from time to time.

There is a difference between getting asked to get coffee every once in awhile and getting asked every day and not being given any other more clinical responsibilities.

Common sense.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Being part of a team?

Outside of the medical world I've picked up coffee for my boss or colleagues over the years. I've never worked with anyone that's a blatant dingus, so we would do each other favors from time to time.

There is a difference between getting asked to get coffee every once in awhile and getting asked every day and not being given any other more clinical responsibilities.

Common sense.

This. Lots of prototypical millennial essence on display in this thread.

 

[colbgw02]

Because picking up coffee and getting dinner for the team, including yourself, is not scutting yourself out. Sorry.

Because apparently this distinction is not self-evident, there is a difference between doing something and being "asked" to do it by a superior. There is nothing inherently wrong with getting coffee, but that's not the point. As a student, I always volunteered to get food, but that's not the same as having my attending ask me to do it. And again, where I come from, when your superior asks you to do something, it's not really a question - it's just a polite way of directing you. In academia, an attending has a lot of power over his or her team, and I consider using one's position of authority in a such a manner an abuse. It's a minor abuse, to be sure, which makes it easy to just shrug off, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

[notbobtrustme]

gotta put your work in. it sucks, but realize that literally every person ahead of you has done the same **** beforehand. it's just expected of you.

 

[tdram]

I would do it because you can avoid doing work for however long it takes to get the coffee.

 

[deleted480308]

just get the coffee, as a student you have no marketable skills to offer and a good relationship with the attending will lead to better education and a better eval

if you find the doc stops educating you then you go to your admin...

 

[Psai]

If they pay for you and they are teaching you well then why not? If they've been ignoring you and just realized your potential as a busboy then no

 

[gators21]

Holy crap it's just a cup of coffee. People make way too big a deal of this "scut work" idea. The philosophy of I'm better than this is rampant among the profession and it is ridiculous.
Who do you think people want in their residency? The person always quoting rules from their institution about I don't do this or that because I'm not supposed to? Or the person that just get things done, even the crappy jobs, and helps the team?
Guaranteed this resident now thinks less of you. Congrats, you probably just lost any teaching they were willing to do for you just for your ego. So the next time you're sitting there bored wondering why the resident isn't willing to teach you, remember at least you're not having to get coffee right? Give me break
Now that said, there is totally a difference between trying to kiss ass by getting coffee, bagels, and dry cleaning every morning or I expect coffee every morning at 5:45 from the one coffee shop across town on my desk verses the occasional I'm exhausted with 10 more notes to write and you aren't doing anything can you grab me some coffee coffee. Then it is appropriate to politely say no or notify your school

 

[Kaustikos]

I'm gonna ask med students to get me irish coffee and see what happens when I'm a resident. But I'll be sure Ashton Kutcher is there to record it.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Dang, what is this world coming to? It's coffee. Just go get it already to be nice. WTF??? I asked one of my staff to get a cup for me out of the back office since I was stuck with a bunch a patients and couldn't get away. It's courtesy. Doesn't mean it's a precursor to taking your clothes off. WOW o WOW.

 

[giantswing]

Keep your mouth shut, get the coffee, and don't spit in it. Most will be nice enough to give you extra to get something for yourself, as well.

Yes, our school said we don't do scut like that, but that doesn't mean it's communicated to the people you work for who determine your grade. Besides, they work much longer hours than you do and have to worry about real things.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

I look at this two ways.

If your attending is the type who is a decent person, teaches you, gets you involved and generally looks like s/he gives a damn, then get the coffee. In all likelihood, they will pay for you to get something too.

I always do coffee rounds, and on occasion have asked the resident to get it while wrapping up a few items and sometimes ask the student to get it.

On the other hand, if your attending is a jerk, disinterested and liable to sell you down the river, then go get the coffee. At this point, you can't predict how you're going to get graded. You might as well go get the coffee in the hopes that it might help your grade. At the very least, you might have a few minutes of peace to think about better times.

Sent via mobile device.

 

[Elixir6]

Hahaha. I've pulled the complete opposite a couple of times saying "I would like to step out to grab a coke if that's okay with you" when its an overnight shift when I started to get low blood sugar. After they said "sure" I usually followed it up with "Can I get you something as well?" and when they said yes they gave me their credit card and said its on them. It's not to kiss a$$ if you don't make it out to be, and if they ask you its its not to make you their b!tch (unless they abuse you as a busboy repeatedly). It's just decency and helping out the team/attending get patient care done.

Don't beat yourself up. You can fix this situation by being super nice and forgetting it all together. If you really want to try and smooth it over, buy a few coffees and bring them up for the team. If there is an appropriate moment, just tell the attending you are sorry you were acting funny about the whole situation and laugh it off.

 

[Armadillos]

lol this isn't hard, just get the coffee.

Man after reading this forum lately Im already making a list of "common sense" tests to run medstudents through someday before deciding if I would write them a rec letter.

1) Tell the medstudent to go home or take a morning/day off and see if they actually do it
2) Give them 10 bucks and ask them to get coffee for team.
3) Get a nurse a to nicely ask them to do some sort of trivial task for the benefit of a patient. (Grab ice, a blanket, juice, sherbet, etc.)

I'm absolutely shocked how many medstudents can fail at this stuff because they straight up refuse to do it.

 

[deleted480308]

lol this isn't hard, just get the coffee.

Man after reading this forum lately Im already making a list of "common sense" tests to run medstudents through someday before deciding if I would write them a rec letter.

1) Tell the medstudent to go home or take a morning/day off and see if they actually do it
2) Give them 10 bucks and ask them to get coffee for team.
3) Get a nurse a to nicely ask them to do some sort of trivial task for the benefit of a patient. (Grab ice, a blanket, juice, sherbet, etc.)

I'm absolutely shocked how many medstudents can fail at this stuff because they straight up refuse to do it.

yep, if a nurse asks me to do something for the patient and I'm not dying under a stack of tasks handed to me by the attending...you better believe the patient gets that cup of ice from me
no way the attending gets mad at me for doing it, and a number of ways I look lazy if I don't.

 

[DermViser]

Then what is?

It is not involved directly in patient care as well as explicitly forbidden per the rules at my school.

I missed this for some reason but others have already responded and I agree. Getting a darn (not the real word I want to use) coffee is NOT scut. We all need sustenance thru food and drink. Your ridiculous behavior bc you took such great offense and then used your school rules (which you know many are pure BS) as a way to defend your behavior is what is the issue. You need to learn to be a team player and you failed at that. Not everything you do as a student, resident, or attending will be "direct patient care".

Now I know why faculty say millenial medical students are so entitled, bc they think that even getting a cup of coffee for a busy attending, rushing around is below them.

 

[DermViser]

Because apparently this distinction is not self-evident, there is a difference between doing something and being "asked" to do it by a superior. There is nothing inherently wrong with getting coffee, but that's not the point. As a student, I always volunteered to get food, but that's not the same as having my attending ask me to do it. And again, where I come from, when your superior asks you to do something, it's not really a question - it's just a polite way of directing you. In academia, an attending has a lot of power over his or her team, and I consider using one's position of authority in a such a manner an abuse. It's a minor abuse, to be sure, which makes it easy to just shrug off, but let's call a spade a spade.

Again, being "directed" nicely to get a cup of coffee or food for the team when the residents/attending can't leave the floor and they're working hard, running around while as the medical student you don't have that responsibility is nowhere even CLOSE to qualifying as abuse (much less minor abuse). Everyone on the team will be hungry/thirsty at some point. It's one thing if they're asking you to do it so they can talk behind your back.

I respect you a lot, but you calling this abuse, trivializes REAL abuse of medical students.

 

[DermViser]

Who do you think people want in their residency? The person always quoting rules from their institution about I don't do this or that because I'm not supposed to? Or the person that just get things done, even the crappy jobs, and helps the team?

He'll be the same person who will be quoting the ACGME rules regarding 80 hour work weeks and not working an hour more.

 

[DermViser]

lol this isn't hard, just get the coffee.

Man after reading this forum lately Im already making a list of "common sense" tests to run medstudents through someday before deciding if I would write them a rec letter.

1) Tell the medstudent to go home or take a morning/day off and see if they actually do it
2) Give them 10 bucks and ask them to get coffee for team.
3) Get a nurse a to nicely ask them to do some sort of trivial task for the benefit of a patient. (Grab ice, a blanket, juice, sherbet, etc.)

I'm absolutely shocked how many medstudents can fail at this stuff because they straight up refuse to do it.

And they'll be the first to run to their Dean of Student Affairs talking about mistreatment. Now it's no wonder schools just don't take these complaints seriously.

 

[styphon]

lol this isn't hard, just get the coffee.

Man after reading this forum lately Im already making a list of "common sense" tests to run medstudents through someday before deciding if I would write them a rec letter.

1) Tell the medstudent to go home or take a morning/day off and see if they actually do it
2) Give them 10 bucks and ask them to get coffee for team.
3) Get a nurse a to nicely ask them to do some sort of trivial task for the benefit of a patient. (Grab ice, a blanket, juice, sherbet, etc.)

I'm absolutely shocked how many medstudents can fail at this stuff because they straight up refuse to do it.

I really like these tests, kind of a "team player" test...

 

[surgok]

Lol this is a topic to be discussed? It's a damn coffee ffs. Just keep your mouth shut and get it gladly. We are dead weight most of the time... might as well help the team members who can actually get the work done. And yes, I consider delivering coffee helping out team members.

 

[alpinism]

Lol this is a topic to be discussed? It's a damn coffee ffs. Just keep your mouth shut and get it gladly. We are dead weight most of the time... might as well help the team members who can actually get the work done. And yes, I consider delivering coffee helping out team members.

Truth.

Getting coffee is probably more helpful than pre-rounding or writing notes on patients that no one reads. At least in the 1st week of a new rotation.

 

[Bacchus]

You should have went for it. When he gave you money to pay for it, he probably would have given you extra and said get something for yourself.

"Hey, go get myself and yourself a cup of coffee" doesn't sound as customary to me as, "Would you mind running for coffee?" *gives money* "Get yourself something."

 

[joeDO2]

If getting a cup of coffee is your biggest problem on rotations you are at a pretty good place. Medical students are rarely helpful. Small things like getting coffee for the team (assuming they are treating me well) is actually something I like to do because it's probably the most useful thing I'll do all day.

 

[Helen Wheels]

I am surprised schools are telling students to refuse scutwork. My school literally tells us, "If your attending asks you to jump, your only question should be 'How high?'"

 

[Kaustikos]

You should have went for it. When he gave you money to pay for it, he probably would have given you extra and said get something for yourself.

"Hey, go get myself and yourself a cup of coffee" doesn't sound as customary to me as, "Would you mind running for coffee?" *gives money* "Get yourself something."

And for extra fun - ask the barista to print off a fake receipt for a $55 drink and see the reaction on your attending.
But serious; there are times where the resident/etc has to be in the team room and can't leave...whereas you can. Why not be helpful?

If getting a cup of coffee is your biggest problem on rotations you are at a pretty good place. Medical students are rarely helpful. Small things like getting coffee for the team (assuming they are treating me well) is actually something I like to do because it's probably the most useful thing I'll do all day.

Yup.

 

[DermViser]

I am surprised schools are telling students to refuse scutwork. My school literally tells us, "If your attending asks you to jump, your only question should be 'How high?'"

Really?!?! That seems like a wide pendulum swing in the other direction.

 

[ChiDO]

go get the coffee and stop being a little bitch - more than likely you watching the attending write a note is boring and mundane anyways

furthermore, if u were say "gunning" for a spot in that program and you said no to me - you could pretty much guarantee not getting an interview (not to sound like a complete dick, but i rarely make students do any stupid scutwork or get things like coffee - but sometimes it saves me time to make you go do a stupid task)

 

[ChiDO]

He'll be the same person who will be quoting the ACGME rules regarding 80 hour work weeks and not working an hour more.

this 100%

 

[general admission]

Didn't realize the response would be this unanimous. Definitely know what to do next time.

Serious question - Would you all pick up the attending's dry cleaning? They are really busy, there's nothing for you to be doing at that moment, they're always nice to you and they asked very politely. Would you do that on an M3 rotation in specialty you're not interested in? What about an M3 rotation you ARE interested in? Subi?

 

[DermViser]

go get the coffee and stop being a little bitch - more than likely you watching the attending write a note is boring and mundane anyways

furthermore, if u were say "gunning" for a spot in that program and you said no to me - you could pretty much guarantee not getting an interview (not to sound like a complete dick, but i rarely make students do any stupid scutwork or get things like coffee - but sometimes it saves me time to make you go do a stupid task)

I'm actually shocked that a medical student would be so stuck up as to say he's not getting coffee when he isn't actually DOING anything of value esp. now that EMRs are in place so a resident/attending can no longer use the medical student's note as the base note. Everyone having coffee and food just puts everyone in a better mood and makes the team run better. This happens all over businesses in America that work in teams.

By not doing so, OP shows that he can't work in a team.

 

[DermViser]

Didn't realize the response would be this unanimous. Definitely know what to do next time.

Serious question - Would you all pick up the attending's dry cleaning? They are really busy, there's nothing for you to be doing at that moment, they're always nice to you and they asked very politely. Would you do that on an M3 rotation in specialty you're not interested in? What about an M3 rotation you ARE interested in? Subi?

Are you seriously equating driving to pick up an attending's dry cleaning with picking up a coffee from Starbucks in the hospital? Seriously? Own up to your mistake and learn from it. Don't be "that guy" that holds up the workplace manual and complains when everything isn't done to the "t" esp. when medical school policies aren't communicated to the other side of the hospital.

 

[general admission]

Are you seriously equating driving to pick up an attending's dry cleaning with picking up a coffee from Starbucks in the hospital? Seriously? Own up to your mistake and learn from it. Don't be "that guy" that holds up the workplace manual and complains when everything isn't done to the "t" esp. when medical school policies aren't communicated to the other side of the hospital.

Haha, no, I said "serious question". I did and am owning up to it, and have learned what to do for next time (like I just stated in my post above). I'm genuinely wondering at what point one should refuse to do something. What things are/aren't acceptable?