Aspen Dental

[NileBDS]

Does any one have any kind of experience (first or second hand) with these guys ?

http://www.aspencareers.com/

Are we looking at "just another mill" here, or is there really something different about them ?
Do employers typically reimburse for interview/relocation expenses ?
I still have a couple of years to go (including GPR), but I thought it's never too early to start looking around.

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[Daurang]

I know they accept a lot of crappy DMO and low end insurance; not a good sign.

 

[DrJeff]

See the "HMO" thread on going now. That will give you alot of answers about what as an Aspen associate you'll be seeing.

Many of these "mills" are like a pyramid scheme, where once you've worked your way up the pyramid, the $$ really flows in, but you need to keep getting new folks in at the base of the pyramid to get the dollars flowing up, and if you're at the base, your getting alot of your production dollars siphoned off, and your seeing a huge volume of folks

 

[gryffindor]

They had a lot of branches of Aspen where I went to school. The common sentiment was that they were a mill and faculty recommended avoiding them. Sometimes patients would show up at the school to get an Aspen denture re-done and the anti-chain comments would start flying around.

 

[jmill0]

Does any one have any kind of experience (first or second hand) with these guys ?

http://www.aspencareers.com/

Are we looking at "just another mill" here, or is there really something different about them ?
Do employers typically reimburse for interview/relocation expenses ?
I still have a couple of years to go (including GPR), but I thought it's never too early to start looking around.

It doesn't matter where you go, you'll find good docs and bad docs in every place. You'll also find good situations and bad situations in every place as well. I have not worked for Aspen, but I'm pretty sure that there are some good people there. Just because they take some DMOs doesn't mean they're bad dentists, just that they don't like getting paid Any situation is going to be what you make of it. If it doesn't work, move on (just like the majority of all those great associateships that new grads get right out of school... why does no one bash them?)......

There are just as many bad clinicians in private practice as well.

Also, just because one doc can do a crown prep in 10 minutes and another in 90 minutes, doens't mean the 10 minute prep is any worse.... it could even be better! Clinical speed is no indication of clinical excellence.

Those who look to bash other docs because of something they heard once, but have no personal experience, show their ignorance.

Dogs bark at what they don't understand.

JKM

 

[OceanDMD]

It doesn't matter where you go, you'll find good docs and bad docs in every place. You'll also find good situations and bad situations in every place as well. I have not worked for Aspen, but I'm pretty sure that there are some good people there. Just because they take some DMOs doesn't mean they're bad dentists, just that they don't like getting paid Any situation is going to be what you make of it. If it doesn't work, move on (just like the majority of all those great associateships that new grads get right out of school... why does no one bash them?)......

There are just as many bad clinicians in private practice as well.

Also, just because one doc can do a crown prep in 10 minutes and another in 90 minutes, doens't mean the 10 minute prep is any worse.... it could even be better! Clinical speed is no indication of clinical excellence.

Those who look to bash other docs because of something they heard once, but have no personal experience, show their ignorance.

Dogs bark at what they don't understand.

JKM

Gosh I would hope that 90 minute prep would be better. I assume he/she would be prepping with a round bur in a slow speed........

 

[NileBDS]

They had a lot of branches of Aspen where I went to school. The common sentiment was that they were a mill and faculty recommended avoiding them. Sometimes patients would show up at the school to get an Aspen denture re-done and the anti-chain comments would start flying around.

Thanks.
All of a sudden I feel like I've known (and even worked for) them for the longest time. I guess they are all the same, no matter how hard they try.

I also think that we must make a distinction here between Aspen dental and Aspen dental employees.
I personally believe that you might find some of the brightest dental grads working for Aspen or Coast or what ever chain it is. But if you don't give them the right environment to thrive in (labs, skilled auxiliaries, etc.) then what do you expect ?

Some of us maybe are not as fortunate to be able to purchase a practice or even find the right associateship right out of school. You have to start somewhere, right ? All of a sudden a guaranteed income does not sound as such a bad idea for a year or 2.
My main concern is that these places may warp your own expectations by having you believe what they do IS the standard of care, when in fact, it may not even be in the same zip code.

 

[NileBDS]

Gosh I would hope that 90 minute prep would be better. I assume he/she would be prepping with a round bur in a slow speed........

And I hope the 10 minute prepped tooth already HAS a root canal.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

I was a receptionist there for 9 months in 9 of their offices (in Mass and NY), so I saw a lot of the business and what I could from the clinical side.

Anyway, Aspen is better than a "denture mill", but it's also your traditional, huge, corporate, slightly corrupt dental chain. I never saw any poor work there...appointments last as long as I've seen in small private practices, their fees are pretty standard, they have lots of toys to impress pts and new graduates (digital radio., plasma TVs for pts to watch in the chairs, blabbity blah.) But they also do some pretty nasty things, mostly in business practice. Here, I'll do some pros/cons:

PROS:
~They take every insurance that isn't Medicaid/Medicaire, so it's a great chance for pts to finally get a provider when they've been searching their carrier's web site for months trying to find someone for their kid.

~For self pay, they take all credit cards, checks, etc.

~They have 2 third party payment plans...great for people with good credit to just sign off on a $4500 treatment plan, BAD for people who are just digging themselves deeper into hell. (However, you usually need very high credit to qualify for them)

~I've seen the dentists who buy into practice ownership make a LOOOOT of money. The GPs who own 6 branches make tons, and the OMFS make around 1mil a year

~Most of the starting dentists there went to private dental schools and lived it up in cities, (almost ALL the ones I met in the East went to NYU and BU), so they decided to join up to start paying loans back right away. You get a good sign-on fee, and they'll woo your little heart out

~Pretty good care, from what I could understand the summer before I started dental school. They did around 1/3 dentures, (though it's 70% of their profits), and since they made their own, pts tended to find them comfortable and usually had good things to say if they ordered the heat-injected ones (which, of course, were the most expensive ) Not a lot of endo there, but treated a lot of kids, LOTS of perio. Bottom line about treatment: almost ALL patient complaints that were brought to me were about the business side of things and not treatment. No one in pain was ever turned away.

~100+ offices...easy to switch patients between them if they need other hours or locations, usually access to an OMFS/endodontist within Aspen(all others are referred out.)

~If you say you're edentulous and looking for new uppers and lowers, you can easily convince them to give you a free exam/pano (they insist on panos for everyone who can't have a FMX for some reason)


CONS:
~Here is the major problem: a new patient comes in, gets an FMX, a comprehensive exam, and then has to sit in front of the office manager until they are convinced to okay the entire treatment plan. For a few composites, prophy and recall, one crown, this isn't a problem. But Aspen is trying to become the First Dental Chain To Buy A New Planet From Perio Profits. If there is the SMALLEST amount of subgingival calculus or anyone needs a good debridement, the patient is put on this special perio route: each quadrant gets expensive SRP, pt needs to buy a $150 electric toothbrush, $20 chlorhexidine rinse, etc. etc. The full perio treatment was something around 3K. And in some cases, these people have major perio problems and this is the first dentist in 20 years. But a lot of them could have been taken care of with a simple prophy. That's when they started to get mad.

~Pts will know they're at a corporate office...they will be left in the chair at times or have long waiting room waits. Billing is done from the central office (and there are probably 100+ offices by now), so they have to deal with a phone message and operator. They can call the office for scheduling/treatment things, but billing is obviously what they're usually pissed about.

~The office manager is hired solely to sell dentures and treatment plans

~They refuse to repair another brand of dentures, even something very fixable. They won't say to leave, but they'll try to tell the pt that it ISN'T fixable of course, so they can use their own dentures



Sorry this is general business stuff, but I was a receptionist, so that's all the data I can give you...at least you can have an idea of what the place is like. I'd say let them wine you and dine you but don't let them know how skeptical you are. If nothing else, it's good to compare with the smaller practices you'll be look at during the same time.

Hope this helps!

 

[Rezdawg]

I was a receptionist there for 9 months in 9 of their offices (in Mass and NY), so I saw a lot of the business and what I could from the clinical side.

Any estimate on the approximate salary given to a new grad?

On a side note, the dentist I did my rotations with told me that he didnt recommend working at a dental mill because you have to work quick and fast and produce lots...as a result, your work tends to get sloppy because you are trying to go from one patient to the next. After some time, that becomes your standard of care, so you tend to continue with that type of work as you move on to private practice. Regardless, if Im a new grad and Im having a hard time finding a place to work, I'd consider giving one of these places a shot for a year to see what its all about.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

Any estimate on the approximate salary given to a new grad?

On a side note, the dentist I did my rotations with told me that he didnt recommend working at a dental mill because you have to work quick and fast and produce lots...as a result, your work tends to get sloppy because you are trying to go from one patient to the next. After some time, that becomes your standard of care, so you tend to continue with that type of work as you move on to private practice. Regardless, if Im a new grad and Im having a hard time finding a place to work, I'd consider giving one of these places a shot for a year to see what its all about.

My manager and I calculated the new docs in the CT/MA/NY offices to start at around 90K.

OH! Also, there are bonuses for high production...that goes with one of the business cons and relates to what your dentist mentor was saying. When your school loans and babies are waiting on you doing a crown instead of a composite, you'll do the freaking crown.

 

[gryffindor]

Some of us maybe are not as fortunate to be able to purchase a practice or even find the right associateship right out of school. You have to start somewhere, right ? All of a sudden a guaranteed income does not sound as such a bad idea for a year or 2.
My main concern is that these places may warp your own expectations by having you believe what they do IS the standard of care, when in fact, it may not even be in the same zip code.

I was going to say something along those lines, but I left it out of my post. Despite the practice conditions, if you have to pay the bills and that's your only choice... well you can take it and always be on the lookout for something better, or you can sit around and let your pride pay the bills. However, what I would be worried about is if they make you sign some contract that you must work for x years and the penalties for breaking it.

 

[jrd29]

I worked at Western Dental for 9 weeks right after I graduated. I had a position at a private practice in California lined up, but California was extremely slow in getting me my license. So I got licensed in Arizona and flew there every week to work.

I was expecting it to be horrible, but it wasn't too bad. My senior Doc was a stud and really became my mentor. I never felt any pressure to sell dentistry and nobody looked at my treatment plans and told me to do a crown instead of a DO. I diagnosed and I did the dentistry. The staff was all great, but mostly inexperienced, just like most of the docs.

My biggest complaint was scheduling. I just don't think the front office knew how to do it. Sometimes I would have 3 different patients all needing big things. For example a patient with an RCT, BU, PFM another patient with 3 unit bridge and another needing 2 quads of SRP. Then 3 more exams to be done. When these situations arose I went to the patients and explained that I was backed up. I told them I wouldn't compromise their care nor any other patient's care and that it would be best to reschedule when they could have my full attention. They would always understand and then reschedule at a less crowded time.

9 weeks was enough for me. I am very glad that I did it. I got lots of real world experience and I saw many things that I was sure that I didn't want to do in my own practice. When I moved on to private practice I was confident and my patients didn't see that hesitancy that one often has when they first graduate.

As for the money, I was compensated well, but I worked very hard. I took about a 40% pay cut to come to Southern California and work in a pretty nice office. But it was worth it. My patients all get my full attention and I work 9-5 and am still energetic when I get home at night.

 

[NileBDS]

Hope this helps!

Of course it does. Thank you very much (!) for taking the time to write this huge and very detailed post.
Having worked there for some time, I am sure you bring a pretty balanced and more objective perspective.

Sherif

 

[NileBDS]

My manager and I calculated the new docs in the CT/MA/NY offices to start at around 90K.

I don't want to sound like one of those guys who think they're ENTITLED to $200K out of school, but quite honestly considering their locations (not big metro areas from what I read), I think 90k in a chain office would be selling your self short, specially in NY, MA and CT.
But that's just me.

$500/day X 5 days X 4 weeks X 11 months = $110K
(considering you're not even getting paid time off).

And come on, $500/day ? I think that's a quite conservative estimate. You could easily pull that off right out of school.

When your school loans and babies are waiting on you doing a crown instead of a composite, you'll do the freaking crown.

That thought makes me cringe ... but I know how familiar it may sound to some people.

 

[NileBDS]

I also just want to clarify that I am not looking for a job at Aspen or anywhere else.
I plan on doing a GPR upon graduation, which I am hoping in addition to many other things, will give more than enough time to find a good practice to associate at.
However, if I was not doing a GPR, Aspen may have well been one of my options for reasons me and others have already expressed earlier in the thread.

 

[S Files]

I also just want to clarify that I am not looking for a job at Aspen or anywhere else.
I plan on doing a GPR upon graduation, which I am hoping in addition to many other things, will give more than enough time to find a good practice to associate at.
However, if I was not doing a GPR, Aspen may have well been one of my options for reasons me and others have already expressed earlier in the thread.

i know 2 former classmates who worked for Aspen in CT and hated every minute of it. they were triple/quadrupled booked (and i'm not talking exams here), tx plans veteod by an office manager who had no dental training, paid below average (95K is about 25K below average for Norwalk) and worked more hours. Both did GPRs and never came close to reaching the incentive payments. 1 left after 2 months and the other after 4. they told me not only is the dentist turnover very high, but other staff members as well (assistants, front desk, etc). i guess the only happy camper in that whole operation was the most senior dentist and the office manager b/c they were the only ones there for more than 2 yrs.

And I have to say I disagree completely w/ the composite vs crown comment.

 

[johntara04]

It doesn't matter where you go, you'll find good docs and bad docs in every place. You'll also find good situations and bad situations in every place as well. I have not worked for Aspen, but I'm pretty sure that there are some good people there. Just because they take some DMOs doesn't mean they're bad dentists, just that they don't like getting paid Any situation is going to be what you make of it.

Although this is true, certain environments attract certain types of people. There aren't too many priests at bars, faithful men at stripclubs, nonusers at crack houses, etc.....

 

[I'mFillingFine]

i know 2 former classmates who worked for Aspen in CT and hated every minute of it. they were triple/quadrupled booked (and i'm not talking exams here), tx plans veteod by an office manager who had no dental training, paid below average (95K is about 25K below average for Norwalk) and worked more hours. Both did GPRs and never came close to reaching the incentive payments. 1 left after 2 months and the other after 4. they told me not only is the dentist turnover very high, but other staff members as well (assistants, front desk, etc). i guess the only happy camper in that whole operation was the most senior dentist and the office manager b/c they were the only ones there for more than 2 yrs.

And I have to say I disagree completely w/ the composite vs crown comment.

This sounds like Aspen! Specialists, owners, and managers love it.


And glad I could help, nile!

 

[airwolfrocks999]

They had a lot of branches of Aspen where I went to school. The common sentiment was that they were a mill and faculty recommended avoiding them. Sometimes patients would show up at the school to get an Aspen denture re-done and the anti-chain comments would start flying around.

Guys, don't take dental chain offices for granted.

It's not a shoo-in to get these jobs. They don't interview everyone for the positions. And not everyone who gets these jobs will be working there for 2+ yrs, as many inexperienced/new dentists get the boot for not being productive enough.

 

[periopocket]

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[flurocore]

Nothing wrong with Aspen being a mill - plenty of patients for a new grad to get their speed up. It may be a good temp job for many as well. Look - if you don't like Aspen, or corporate dentistry for that matter, go start your own practice. People like to complain, but do nothing about it. Aspen is only around because some smart person (or group of people) saw the lucrative potential. While you're slaving away, sweating your balls off seeing patients, the founder and higher ups (its a corporation) are likely living it up somewhere. Its a cruel and cold world out there in business - so if you don't like them or their business model - go do something else!

 

[yappy]

My manager and I calculated the new docs in the CT/MA/NY offices to start at around 90K.

OH! Also, there are bonuses for high production...that goes with one of the business cons and relates to what your dentist mentor was saying. When your school loans and babies are waiting on you doing a crown instead of a composite, you'll do the freaking crown.

That's horrible. As a patient why should they care about their dentists babies or student loans. This is the type of behavior that will destroy dentistry as a profession. At the very least hopefully malpractice attorneys will start catching on that sub-par dentistry is on the rise and a great new source of clients.

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

Nothing wrong with Aspen being a mill - plenty of patients for a new grad to get their speed up. It may be a good temp job for many as well. Look - if you don't like Aspen, or corporate dentistry for that matter, go start your own practice. People like to complain, but do nothing about it. Aspen is only around because some smart person (or group of people) saw the lucrative potential. While you're slaving away, sweating your balls off seeing patients, the founder and higher ups (its a corporation) are likely living it up somewhere. Its a cruel and cold world out there in business - so if you don't like them or their business model - go do something else!

As long as they don't bill Medicaid (which is my taxpayer dollars) patients due to their fraudulent billing practices and unethical dentistry, I'm fine with it.

 

[newdoc1987]

I graduated this year and I've been with Aspen for about 2 months now; so far I love it. I was given 3 weeks to shadow while I waited for my license to come in and that got me used to the pace of work here, which is certainly faster than what I saw in dental school but not unreasonable by any means. I was paired with a great lead doc who's serving as my mentor, we have hard working auxiliaries in both the front of house and in the clinic and the clinical coordinator has not altered or second guessed any treatment plans to my knowledge. I'm getting experience with common procedures (resto, fixed prosth, extractions, ALOT of dentures, a little endo) and also being exposed to a fair amount of implant dentistry including CE courses covered by the company. Laser dentistry is also something I've been exposed to here, all while being paid a guaranteed 6 figure salary right out of school with bonuses paid on the practice's production as a whole. I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and one Saturday a month.

It's pretty typical to have 3-4 chairs running simultaneously here, so while your extraction patient is getting numb you have rubber base impressions setting in another px's mouth in preparation for their hard reline and you're tx planning a 3rd px while the lab tech adjusts the high spots on the PIP impression you just took on px 4 who needs an adjustment. It can sound like alot, but it's quite do-able and when the pace needs to be slowed down for endo or implants especially there's typically room for that too.

For me the biggest thing has been taking all the non-dental crap I hated about dental school out of the equation - no more booking my own chairs, no begging people to come in for a 3 hour restoration or bribing them to, no paying out of my pocket because I need to meet the requirements, no begging profs to work with me when the schedule is full, not having materials, no waiting on row instructors to inspect my work, no completing mountains of useless paperwork no one ever really checks but God forbid you don't have etc. You show up, do the dentistry and dip. If you want to own a practice or two later there's a clear path to that.

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty and deal with every aspect of dental practice ownership then by all means go for it, but for new docs getting their feet wet I think corporate is a great option and I expect to be with Aspen for a long time. Just know there are good dentists and bad dentists everywhere and if you find yourself in a bad/uncomfortable clinical environment get out of there, corporate or private.

 

[nucshuc]

I graduated this year and I've been with Aspen for about 2 months now; so far I love it. I was given 3 weeks to shadow while I waited for my license to come in and that got me used to the pace of work here, which is certainly faster than what I saw in dental school but not unreasonable by any means. I was paired with a great lead doc who's serving as my mentor, we have hard working auxiliaries in both the front of house and in the clinic and the clinical coordinator has not altered or second guessed any treatment plans to my knowledge. I'm getting experience with common procedures (resto, fixed prosth, extractions, ALOT of dentures, a little endo) and also being exposed to a fair amount of implant dentistry including CE courses covered by the company. Laser dentistry is also something I've been exposed to here, all while being paid a guaranteed 6 figure salary right out of school with bonuses paid on the practice's production as a whole. I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and one Saturday a month.

It's pretty typical to have 3-4 chairs running simultaneously here, so while your extraction patient is getting numb you have rubber base impressions setting in another px's mouth in preparation for their hard reline and you're tx planning a 3rd px while the lab tech adjusts the high spots on the PIP impression you just took on px 4 who needs an adjustment. It can sound like alot, but it's quite do-able and when the pace needs to be slowed down for endo or implants especially there's typically room for that too.

For me the biggest thing has been taking all the non-dental crap I hated about dental school out of the equation - no more booking my own chairs, begging people to come in for a 3 hour restoration or bribing them to by paying out of my pocket, no begging profs to work with me when the schedule is full, not having materials, waiting on row instructors to inspect my work, completing mountains of useless paperwork no one ever really checks but God forbid you don't have etc. You show up, do the dentistry and dip. If you want to own a practice or two later there's a clear path to that.

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty and deal with every aspect of dental practice ownership then by all means go for it, but for new docs getting their feet wet I think corporate is a great option and I expect to be with Aspen for a long time. Just know there are good dentists and bad dentists everywhere and if you find yourself in a bad/uncomfortable clinical environment get out of there, corporate or private.

That sounds kind of...awesome?? Why do you think Aspen gets so much hate then?

 

[caliprosth]

I graduated this year and I've been with Aspen for about 2 months now; so far I love it. I was given 3 weeks to shadow while I waited for my license to come in and that got me used to the pace of work here, which is certainly faster than what I saw in dental school but not unreasonable by any means. I was paired with a great lead doc who's serving as my mentor, we have hard working auxiliaries in both the front of house and in the clinic and the clinical coordinator has not altered or second guessed any treatment plans to my knowledge. I'm getting experience with common procedures (resto, fixed prosth, extractions, ALOT of dentures, a little endo) and also being exposed to a fair amount of implant dentistry including CE courses covered by the company. Laser dentistry is also something I've been exposed to here, all while being paid a guaranteed 6 figure salary right out of school with bonuses paid on the practice's production as a whole. I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and one Saturday a month.

It's pretty typical to have 3-4 chairs running simultaneously here, so while your extraction patient is getting numb you have rubber base impressions setting in another px's mouth in preparation for their hard reline and you're tx planning a 3rd px while the lab tech adjusts the high spots on the PIP impression you just took on px 4 who needs an adjustment. It can sound like alot, but it's quite do-able and when the pace needs to be slowed down for endo or implants especially there's typically room for that too.

For me the biggest thing has been taking all the non-dental crap I hated about dental school out of the equation - no more booking my own chairs, begging people to come in for a 3 hour restoration or bribing them to by paying out of my pocket, no begging profs to work with me when the schedule is full, not having materials, waiting on row instructors to inspect my work, completing mountains of useless paperwork no one ever really checks but God forbid you don't have etc. You show up, do the dentistry and dip. If you want to own a practice or two later there's a clear path to that.

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty and deal with every aspect of dental practice ownership then by all means go for it, but for new docs getting their feet wet I think corporate is a great option and I expect to be with Aspen for a long time. Just know there are good dentists and bad dentists everywhere and if you find yourself in a bad/uncomfortable clinical environment get out of there, corporate or private.

I understand you're excited about this new position, but give yourself time - I think in a few more months you may be feeling differently. Realize that you're likely doing a ton of work for them - and then look at your reimbursements. Most insurance plans there are bottom of the barrel, and you don't get much for the medicaid patients. Production numbers and collections are usually cooked up to scam the doctor out of hitting production. With these companies (corporate), both parties tend to use each other. Corporate is using you because you're new and "fresh" to the business of private practice, and you're of course using them for a job and experience. There is a reason so many of these positions are available and are run of the mill (no pun intended).

I'm in no way talking down on your job (I did corporate too). I just think corporate is doing the profession a huge disservice. I understand it may be a good place to start (well probably not but a lot of options are limited these days). The worst part and saddest aspect of working corporate was going to those dreaded "pep" rallies. It was completely lame! The people who overdiagnosed periodontal disease and planned SRPs were the stars of the company and showcased like prized cattle at the county fair. The "Big-Wigs" would sit at there own little table and you know better than to speak up or question their ultimate authority of clinical knowledge. Question anything and you are labeled a troublemaker. Have a different opinion or feel like a case should be handled differently? Well you are wrong if the clinical director disagrees (never mind you have a license to practice dentistry). I guess I just wasn't meant to drink the kool-aid. I can see how as humans we all just want to be a part of a cult though. Its that herd like mentality.

I do sincerely wish you the best of luck though. Just get out if any questionable circumstances arise. They will push you and continue to push you, and just remember, they will not support you if the board comes calling. You can probably tell I really dislike corporate dentistry.

 

[480640]

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[newdoc1987]

I understand you're excited about this new position, but give yourself time - I think in a few more months you may be feeling differently. Realize that you're likely doing a ton of work for them - and then look at your reimbursements. Most insurance plans there are bottom of the barrel, and you don't get much for the medicaid patients. Production numbers and collections are usually cooked up to scam the doctor out of hitting production. With these companies (corporate), both parties tend to use each other. Corporate is using you because you're new and "fresh" to the business of private practice, and you're of course using them for a job and experience. There is a reason so many of these positions are available and are run of the mill (no pun intended).

I'm in no way talking down on your job (I did corporate too). I just think corporate is doing the profession a huge disservice. I understand it may be a good place to start (well probably not but a lot of options are limited these days). The worst part and saddest aspect of working corporate was going to those dreaded "pep" rallies. It was completely lame! The people who overdiagnosed periodontal disease and planned SRPs were the stars of the company and showcased like prized cattle at the county fair. The "Big-Wigs" would sit at there own little table and you know better than to speak up or question their ultimate authority of clinical knowledge. Question anything and you are labeled a troublemaker. Have a different opinion or feel like a case should be handled differently? Well you are wrong if the clinical director disagrees (never mind you have a license to practice dentistry). I guess I just wasn't meant to drink the kool-aid. I can see how as humans we all just want to be a part of a cult though. Its that herd like mentality.

I do sincerely wish you the best of luck though. Just get out if any questionable circumstances arise. They will push you and continue to push you, and just remember, they will not support you if the board comes calling. You can probably tell I really dislike corporate dentistry.

I appreciate your perspective and the advice. I haven't been to any pep rallies, though admittedly they don't sound too fun! I think you hit the nail on the head re: my motivations - as a freshly minted dentist I'm treating this as a really well paid residency w/o all the stuff I hate about academic dentistry. It's my understanding that I'm being groomed by my managing doc to become a managing doc myself, and ultimately I'd like to get into ownership. I've been told that's a realistic possibility inside of 2 years and admittedly that's an exciting prospect.

I'm not an incredibly savvy financial wunderkind (just ask my wife!) and I certainly don't feel qualified to run a business on my own, so I like that Aspen puts those elements in place for me. I like that we have malpractice insurance through Aspen and at least among the 9 branches my managing doc owns there's great intercommunication between the docs, which makes me feel pretty well supported. Most of all though, I like the work. I want to show up and do the dentistry, and I get to do that here. I've found myself working an 8-5 job, making a generous salary and if I can increase that income moving forward by becoming a managing doc and later picking up a few locations then even better. Would I ultimately be leaving money on the table and producing more than I'm being reimbursed for? Maybe, but I guess when I consider the quality of home life, happiness of work life and the fact that the money's ok with me; it all balances out. I get that not everybody feels that way though, and if running the show top to bottom is your jam then by all means have at it.

I just don't think corporate dentistry is the devil it's so often made out to be. I don't think the quality of the work is any lower than anything I saw shadowing during school. Like I said I personally haven't seen any tx plans altered and the px CC is always addressed first although we tx plan for comprehensive care. Bad practices are bad practices anywhere, and I'll keep my eyes open. I just wish all new grads were advised to do the same instead of being inundated with the black and white view of "corporate bad, privately owned good."

 

[newdoc1987]

That sounds kind of...awesome?? Why do you think Aspen gets so much hate then?

Honestly I think it's the same phenomenon that affects yelp reviews; we tend to be more inclined to relate our bad experiences than our good experiences. I have no doubt that there are branches of Aspen/Heartland/Kool Smilez etc where treatment coordinators overstepped their boundaries, poor work was done, unhelpful or unprofessional people were on staff etc. and the docs who left those offices did the right thing.

But there are also offices like mine where everyone plays their position and if there are misunderstandings, they're handled courteously and professionally. Ex: front office scheduled cementing a crown and an adjacent class 2 in the same appt > doc felt that the cement needed time to properly set and px care would be compromised by immediately wedging the crown for a class 2 > situation was explained to the px and the schedulers made the necessary adjustments. Nothing dramatic at all, just a matter of communication.

Maybe the office I'm working at is an anomaly but I think with 400+ in place more than a few of them are probably practicing good dentistry.

 

[caliprosth]

I'm glad you are enjoying it there - I always liked to work somewhere I could go in and enjoy the day and the people. If I enjoy the atmosphere, it doesn't matter how much they pay me (within reason). There is money to be made in corporate but my personal experience was that there is enough shadiness to go around. But take all you can from it and use it as a training ground to become more experienced and efficient.

 

[asne0407]

What is the average starting salary at Aspen, or any corporate office, for a new grad? with no GPR..

 

[Cold Front]

What is the average starting salary at Aspen, or any corporate office, for a new grad? with no GPR..

It can range from $400 to $600 a day starting salary, depending on location. The more remote location (and how desperate Aspen are looking for a dentist), the higher the rate.