ASPRING Physician Scientist in NEED of Advice!!!

[TropicThunder101]

Hello Everyone,

I need some advice on what to do! After much consideration (more than two years) I have come to the conclusion that I will be much happier as a physician scientist or applying to an MD/pHD. I have a summer experience in basic science cancer research, 2.5 years experiences in electrochemistry (non-medically related) with a first author publication and I have recently began working at a diagnostics company in their clinical trails departments as a lab associate. My academic credential are subpar as far as MD/pHD is concerned. My cGPA: 3.63, sGPA: 3.73 and MCAT: 29. I have two reasonable options as of right now:

1. Keep on working at my current position, shadow MD/pHD or MD with an active research group and retake my MCAT?

2. Apply to a masters program, enhance my research background and retake my MCAT?

What do y'all think? Any advice is helpful?

PS: I do have about between 2000 - 3000 hours of research experience combined, ~200 hours of hospice shadowing/volunteering, 80 hours local hospital volunteering and some position that show I have interests in helping others such as mentoring and tutoring.

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[StIGMA]

Hello Everyone,

I need some advice on what to do! After much consideration (more than two years) I have come to the conclusion that I will be much happier as a physician scientist or applying to an MD/pHD. I have a summer experience in basic science cancer research, 2.5 years experiences in electrochemistry (non-medically related) with a first author publication and I have recently began working at a diagnostics company in their clinical trails departments as a lab associate. My academic credential are subpar as far as MD/pHD is concerned. My cGPA: 3.63, sGPA: 3.73 and MCAT: 29. I have two reasonable options as of right now:

1. Keep on working at my current position, shadow MD/pHD or MD with an active research group and retake my MCAT?

2. Apply to a masters program, enhance my research background and retake my MCAT?

What do y'all think? Any advice is helpful?

PS: I do have about between 2000 - 3000 hours of research experience combined, ~200 hours of hospice shadowing/volunteering, 80 hours local hospital volunteering and some position that show I have interests in helping others such as mentoring and tutoring.

1) Your English is poor. 2) It is a Ph.D. 3) I have no clue why you think an MD/PhD would make you "much happier" than either degree alone. How did you come to this conclusion rather than, say, having a concrete reason for needing both degrees out of career necessity?

Even with a higher MCAT (34+) you would be a borderline candidate (say, 50% or less chance of admission in a cycle to any program). I hope the steep odds would be obvious to you after going through at least one unsuccessful MD application cycle as evidenced by your post history.

You don't need a masters degree to get research experience. Your research experience is not terrible- but clinical trial experience will not help you for an MD/PhD program. If you can get back into the cancer research lab that would be good- but even with more research and better MCAT you are a borderline applicant and would be highly likely not to be accepted to a program.

If you could choose 1 degree, which would it be? My advice would be to pick either the MD or PhD and pursue that with all vigor. You can do bench research with an MD. If you decide to still apply MD/PhD, then apply to numerous programs (20+, mostly less competitive programs) along with numerous (10+) MD-only programs with the intention of going to an MD program if you do not get into an MD/PhD program. I do not think it is worth it to waste even one year reapplying when you could be moving on with your life (if that one year is not a waste and is rather an incredibly productive experience/life goal, that is of course a decent alternative- think being part of a top research group, Rhodes scholarship, other elite activity). To be frank, and only from the little information you provided, I doubt you would fare well in the MD/PhD application cycle.

Again, you can be a physician scientist as an MD. What would the PhD provide that you could not acquire during your medical training?

 

[TropicThunder101]

1) Your English is poor. 2) It is a Ph.D. 3) I have no clue why you think an MD/PhD would make you "much happier" than either degree alone. How did you come to this conclusion rather than, say, having a concrete reason for needing both degrees out of career necessity?

Even with a higher MCAT (34+) you would be a borderline candidate (say, 50% or less chance of admission in a cycle to any program). I hope the steep odds would be obvious to you after going through at least one unsuccessful MD application cycle as evidenced by your post history.

You don't need a masters degree to get research experience. Your research experience is not terrible- but clinical trial experience will not help you for an MD/PhD program. If you can get back into the cancer research lab that would be good- but even with more research and better MCAT you are a borderline applicant and would be highly likely not to be accepted to a program.

If you could choose 1 degree, which would it be? My advice would be to pick either the MD or PhD and pursue that with all vigor. You can do bench research with an MD. If you decide to still apply MD/PhD, then apply to numerous programs (20+, mostly less competitive programs) along with numerous (10+) MD-only programs with the intention of going to an MD program if you do not get into an MD/PhD program. I do not think it is worth it to waste even one year reapplying when you could be moving on with your life (if that one year is not a waste and is rather an incredibly productive experience/life goal, that is of course a decent alternative- think being part of a top research group, Rhodes scholarship, other elite activity). To be frank, and only from the little information you provided, I doubt you would fare well in the MD/PhD application cycle.

Again, you can be a physician scientist as an MD. What would the PhD provide that you could not acquire during your medical training?

Thanks for the reply.

I am thinking of a career as a physician scientist because I enjoy bench research and patient care. The idea of integrating one’s patient medical problems (or diseases) and finding solution for those problems really intrigues me. That said, I understand that it's hard to get into any MD/Ph.D. programs because of its competitiveness. I am willing to put in the necessary time and commitment to achieve this but with reason. I think that an MD/Ph.D. would give me a competitive edge in terms of starting a career in academia. However, I could see how having either one degree an MD with research background and a competitive fellowship or Ph.D. can still fulfill one's patient-interaction desires or research respectively.

I guess what it comes down to is what's really important to me. And, I do agree with you that the year-off will be a time of self-reflection and can be worthwhile. I hope this answers any of your concerns.

As an MD/Ph.D. student yourself, do you know of any non-traditional MD/Ph.D. students in your class or interview experiences and what they have done to succeed? From what I gathered from your post, prestige really matters in most MD/Ph.D.? Why did you choose to pursue an MD/pHD?

I am trying to get as many opinions/views before I make an informed decision on what I should do so please bear with me!

 

[StIGMA]

Prestige (as in from what college you attend) is not a very significant factor as long as you attend a major research university (including state schools, such as University of Iowa or something similar). Everyone in my year in my program (15 people) had significant (2+ years) research as an undergraduate, and about half of these people had 1-2+ years research after college. The most "non traditional" did 2 years off in a prestigious career, then 2 years additional research in a top lab, and then joined the program. Non-traditional doesn't refer to taking a few years off after college... true non-trads (say, 30+ year olds with no research background) don't often wish to do an MD/PhD program.

re: competitive edge in academia with an MD/PhD; it entirely depends on your body of work and your career goals. You will be more competitive with an MD with some publications going for a clinical position than an MD/PhD with a poor or even average track record trying to start a lab, because the latter will not happen. How do you even know you want to be in academia in the future? Maybe you think you want to do it because it is all that you are currently familiar with.

FYI, I am in the sixth year of my program. I chose MD/PhD for a few main reasons: (1) I wanted to acquire the critical reasoning and investigatory skills that come with a PhD, and I was willing to commit 3+ years to this (2) I wanted to use this training in my career, which means applying for research grants in the future, further research training, and possibly having this all go to waste if I don't become a primary investigator, and (3) I wanted to integrate this training into a clinical practice. The sacrifice of spending 3-4 years stuck in school while your peers move on with life is huge. Don't underestimate this decision. You will lose time and future earnings if you pursue MD/PhD instead of MD. You may be stuck in the PhD for 5-6 years. You may be smart, but are you typically one of the smartest people in your classes, perhaps bored by the lack of depth of the material? If not, how well do you think you will do in a PhD program- thriving or floundering? Have you spent much time with graduate students? If so, why on earth do you want to be one?

If I could choose again, I probably would still choose MD/PhD (I have been successful in my program, so that's why), but I would be perfectly content to have chosen the MD by itself. I could still do research with the MD, either by taking a year off during medical school or by doing a post-doc or research fellowship during residency (and I would save myself the frustration of being a graduate student). If I was not in a hardcore molecular biology field, such as in clinical trials or something where I worked with patients/had a less steep learning curve, I definitely would not have pursued a PhD because the training could have been acquired faster without it- and that training could be used effectively with the MD, which is a terminal degree.

Do you want to practice medicine most of the time or run a research program most of the time? Do you realize you will get paid approximately half as much to run the research program while working longer hours and having less job security? What kind of research do you want to pursue- ie: which graduate fields/programs are you considering?

 

[TropicThunder101]

Well, I do think you have a point that I have more experience with academia than community medical centers. But I would argue that this exposure was more in academia because I enjoyed what I did. Naturally, I stuck with it. As of right now, I see myself having 70% research and 30% patient care balance. This may change as I get more exposure to the possible routes in medicine. Especially when you consider the ones you mentioned earlier like the MD with a research background through fellowship or a year-off while in medical school.

Ironically, most of my friends are graduate students and they have presented with some of the pros/cons of graduate school. I like the independent, critical thinking and in depth exploration of a subject matter in graduate school and willing to spend those years acquiring new knowledge or pushing the frontier of science. However, I would also like to combine this with clinical work. Hence why my decision is a bit tough.

The field I would pursue in graduate school is either biochemistry/molecular biology somehow integrated with cancer research. So, it's refreshing knowing that I am getting advice from someone in "somewhat" of the same field. I believe that you raised some good questions to ask myself internally. The toughest one is "working longer hours and having less job security". Any final thoughts for someone interested in molecular biology/biochemistry? I have also looked into a research fellowship with the CDC during my gap years.

All in all, I envision a career in which I get to affect patients lives directly while also finding solutions through research of their ailments. I realize there are difficulties in the academic world such as funding or publications. However, I will take them on as they come. Your thoughts have been insightful.