Attire for Men in Rad Onc Clinic

[Gfunk6]

With interview season in full swing, I thought I'd lighten the mood a little with this informal poll.

For the guys, what is your preferred garb for Rad Onc Clinic?

Shirt and tie only?
Shirt w/o tie?
Blazer?
Suit?

Also, do you use a white coat if you picked one of the first two choices?

Personally, I wear a shirt and tie only without the white coat. However, I am strongly considering tossing a blazer/sportcoat into the mix.

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[CyberKnife19]

With interview season in full swing, I thought I'd lighten the mood a little with this informal poll.

For the guys, what is your preferred garb for Rad Onc Clinic?

Shirt and tie only?
Shirt w/o tie?
Blazer?
Suit?

Also, do you use a white coat if you picked one of the first two choices?

Personally, I wear a shirt and tie only without the white coat. However, I am strongly considering tossing a blazer/sportcoat into the mix.

GFunk, great thread. What would be even more interesting, if guys would like to contribute, would be what is customary where they train.

Where I am training, residents are expected to wear white coats with dress shirt (tie optional, though most opt to), when seeing patients but obviously no white coat needed while attending tumor boards, conference, etc. From an attending standpoint, I would estimate an approximate 50/50 split in terms of those that wear white coats.

 

[thesauce]

GFunk, great thread. What would be even more interesting, if guys would like to contribute, would be what is customary where they train.

Where I am training, residents are expected to wear white coats with dress shirt (tie optional, though most opt to), when seeing patients but obviously no white coat needed while attending tumor boards, conference, etc. From an attending standpoint, I would estimate an approximate 50/50 split in terms of those that wear white coats.

Same for our residents. All attendings wear white coats.

 

[medgator]

No bowtie option? I do know a few rad oncs who sport that.

I generally go with shirt and tie + white coat in clinic. I do subscribe to the idea of no-tie fridays though

 

[deleted4401]

Been doing suits or blazers more often now, to look older because I I get a fair amount of people saying I look too young, but shirt and slacks as baseline. Never a white coat.

 

[deleted4401]

Only Tuesdays!
S

 

[Gfunk6]

Suits/blazers is definitely the culture at many private practice places. Also, some academic institutions (like Mayo) pretty much mandate suits/blazers. The Chairman of my home program trained at Mayo and ALWAYS wore suits. In fact, the only time I saw him with a white coat was in publicity photos.

At UCSF we were very informal. There were residents who wore scrubs pretty much every single day even if they were not doing brachytherapy. No attending complained or cared.

 

[Carotenoid]

tie and white coat

 

[Scatter]

If I may chime in from a woman's perspective ...

I think all radiation oncologists, XX or XY, should wear a white coat for patient encounters, because it's a symbolic distinction and because patients prefer that (evidence-based). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=should doctors wear white coats

However, in a Tumor Board setting, sporting a nice coat is definitely OK, preferred over suits. Whenever I see someone in a dark suit, usually a surgeon, they're even more unapproachable.

And I'm totally against scrubs for residents, unless you're in the OR that day ... unless you can work it.

 

[Scatter]

Been doing suits or blazers more often now, to look older because I I get a fair amount of people saying I look too young, but shirt and slacks as baseline. Never a white coat.

One of my co-residents had the same problem, so he grew a goatee. No one ever said he looks like Prince William again.

 

[deleted4401]

I looked at every single abstract, none of seemed to indicate whites coats over suits or anything else. Basically, just white coats over no white coats. My assumption is that the no white coat means scrubs alone or a shirt and slacks alone. I doubt very much that a patient that walked into my outpatient clinic, saw me in a nice suit and be like, "Anyone but that guy!"

One found professional over business casual and conclusion was suits or white coats a good idea - full agreement!
One said white coat over scrubs without white coat over jeans - full agreement!
Another one said white coats for easy identification in the inpatient setting - full agreement! In my clinic, though, they walk into my office, my name is on the door, and I introduce myself at consulation - so we've found a good workaround for easy identification
The Australians have spilled haterade all over white coats. I wouldn't say I'm as against them as they are.

It sounds like if patients have a choice of white coat or no white coat, they prefer white coat. None of them addressed suits/ties or other business professional attire.

I don't like most patient preference surveys, especially those about attire. I like the ones that ask questions like "Do you want your doctor to tell you exactly what your life expectancy is or rather they speak about it in a more general sense?" The response to that question has meaning to me. I think the fact is that when you ask certain questions, you can get an answer, but I'm not sure it means anything, clinically. But, this is one of those research topics that really gets people hot and bothered. Our former resident was interviewed nationally about his patient preferences project.

 

[OTN]

This is the kind of poll I can get behind.

As an attending: shirt, no tie. Ever. Hate 'em. I do wear nice dress clothes, though, so I think that helps (no khakis, etc). I tried to wear the white coat, but I look too damn young, so it just looked like I was "playing doctor."

In residency I went with tie and white coat, though, as was customary in our dept. LOVED finally being able to lose the tie. Just a thing with me.

 

[Scatter]

I'm sticking to my guns. White coat encourages trust and is confidence-inspiring, and it'd really surprise me if patients were given a choice and the business-like look won over white coat. I distinctly remember from Doctor-Patient Relationship class (med school) that white coat wins every time, regardless of specialty. I'm going to try and find that article that we had to read in medical school. Just extrapolating, but I'm much more at peace seeing a pilot in his uniform, than, say, in a business suit.

 

[Gfunk6]

One issue with the white coat is that it's meaning has become diluted by widespread use. Everyone wears white coats nowadays, the therapists, NPs, radiology techs . . . hell even the cafeteria workers in the hospital wear white coats! Also, our residency program stopped paying for our white coats to be cleaned during my PGY-3 year so I think that's another reason I have white coat aversion.

I'm thinking about seriously upgrading my wardrobe, maybe with a few sportcoats by Joseph Abboud or Armani. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about

 

[Scatter]

eh, i don't know. "encourages trust and is confidence inspiring?" I dont think you'll find any study to support that specific statement/notion. Being a competent physician with reasonable communication skills probably goes alot farther in that regard. I would be interested to see the reference if you do come across such a study though.

I'm in total agreement that personality and demeanor are most important. The paper from med school was actually a commentary titled "On the Value of an Old Dress Code in the New Millenium" published in Arch Intern Med: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/163/11/1277

Fun read. Hippocrates' advice to physicians: "be clean in person, well-dressed, and anointed with sweet smelling unguents."

 

[Scatter]

One issue with the white coat is that it's meaning has become diluted by widespread use. Everyone wears white coats nowadays, the therapists, NPs, radiology techs . . . hell even the cafeteria workers in the hospital wear white coats! Also, our residency program stopped paying for our white coats to be cleaned during my PGY-3 year so I think that's another reason I have white coat aversion.

I'm thinking about seriously upgrading my wardrobe, maybe with a few sportcoats by Joseph Abboud or Armani. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about

So, I just did an informal poll with our therapists and dosimetrists who, btw, also have white coats, but many refuse to wear them. The ones I just asked said they feel "weird" wearing one. One therapist was very against anyone but doctors wearing the white coat, and expects the doctors to wear it. The guy who cuts our blocks always dresses really nice and wears a white coat -- pts often address him as "doctor." I am also against other staff wearing it. She said seeing a doctor in a business suit reminds her of healthcare costs! Interestingly, a younger therapist said she prefers no white coat and no tie, because she feels like she can relate better to someone who doesn't look "stiff."

I think the take-home-message is that it doesn't matter as much, as long as you're nice and establish a rapport with the patient.

As for your indecision, Gfunk, Armani stitch is just so lovely. Go with Gio.

 

[johnthomas75]

Well now I def cant give up my goatee
-johnthomas75
http://the-d-o-c-t-o-r.blogspot.com/

 

[locaperonoloca]

One issue with the white coat is that it's meaning has become diluted by widespread use. Everyone wears white coats nowadays, the therapists, NPs, radiology techs . . . hell even the cafeteria workers in the hospital wear white coats! Also, our residency program stopped paying for our white coats to be cleaned during my PGY-3 year so I think that's another reason I have white coat aversion.

I'm thinking about seriously upgrading my wardrobe, maybe with a few sportcoats by Joseph Abboud or Armani. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about

If you can afford an Armani suit you can actually afford a much better crafted suit that is not necessarily a household name.

Super-Mega Excellent Suits:

Attolini
Barbera (Luciano) Collezioni Sartoriale
Battistoni
Belvest
Bijan
Luigi Borrelli
Brioni
D'Avenza
Thom Browne
Castangia
Cheshire Clothing (Chester Barrie)
Cifonelli
Dior homme
Isaia
Kiton
Oxxford
Ralph Lauren Purple Label (both the Saint Andrews and the Chester Barrie)
Sartoria Attolini
St. Andrews
Sartoria Castangia
Sartoria Partenopea
Stuart's Choice (Isiah until 06, St Andrews post 06)
Zegna Napoli

Extremely Excellent Suits

Alfred Dunhill London
Armani Collezioni
Armani Classico and Black Label (made by Vestimenta)
Boss Baldessarini (made by Caruso)
Boglioli
Brooks Brothers Black Fleece
Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece
Canali and Canali Exclusive
Canali Proposta
Cantarelli
Caruso
Corneliani Linea Sartoria
Corneliani
Corneliani Trend and CC
Ermenegildo Zegna Couture (& mainline to a lesser extent - Z Zegna is low-end line)
Faconnable Tailleur (made by Canali and Cantarelli)
Hickey Freeman
Lanvin (not necessarily true for vintage)
Martin Greenman
Paul Smith (Mainline, not Paul Smith London)
Polo Blue Label (made in Italy)
Ralph Lauren Polo Blue Label (currently made by Canali, older by Corneliani)
Nervesa
Paul Stuart
Ravazzolo
Samuelsohn - Canada
Vestimenta
Zileri sartoriale line
Zileri Gruppo Forall

It is 67% more difficult for me to respect people who go to clinic wearing sneakers, hiking boots, cargo pants, boat shoes, polo shirts, or sans-tie. Also, you should all be aware that wearing a shirt and tie without a white coat or other jacket makes one look like the manager at Blockbuster Video. Ties were made to be worn with jackets. I am aware that this is shallow but that doesn't change my opinion in the slightest.

Just kidding [but only a little].

 

[thesauce]

I hate Blockbuster

 

[OTN]

Part of it is also going to depend on location.

In places like Portland, Austin, parts of California, etc, wearing a really nice suit and tie is going to get you nowhere and, in fact, may make you stand out...not in a good way. I wore a suit to my job interview for a position in Key West and they looked at me like I was from another planet.

In the Northeast, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, LA, etc, though, upping the ante a bit would probably be a good idea.

Just a thought.

 

[Gfunk6]

During residency I bought my dress shirts from Kohl's (Apt 9 brand) or JC Penny (Claiborne brand). I'm looking to upgrade.

Any suggestions for dress shirt brands?

 

[RadOnc007]

Express shirts! Look sharp.

 

[medgator]

During residency I bought my dress shirts from Kohl's (Apt 9 brand) or JC Penny (Claiborne brand). I'm looking to upgrade.

Any suggestions for dress shirt brands?

I used Brooks Brothers wrinkle-free brand for awhile, before switching to Dillard's Gold Label wrinkle-free shirts (made under the Roundtree & Yorke and Murano labels), which were just as good IMO, and lighter on the wallet. Either provided better wrinkle-free performance for me over brands like Kenneth Cole, Calvin Klein, Clairborne, Express or Geoffrey Beene. I've also had a decent experience with JC Penney's Stafford line of dress shirts, but the quality isn't quite as good as Gold Label.

With Gold Label shirts, you can just hang dry them after putting them through the washing machine and they come out pretty wrinkle free and they hold up well after multiple washes. It's definitely that specific brand (Gold Label), as I have tried the regular Roundtree & Yorke shirts, and they don't perform nearly as well.

 

[deleted4401]

Real ballers get custom made shirts - www.blanklabel.com is high quality.

Or, on your next trip to India or Thailand or whatever third world destination, hit up Reid & Taylor (India) or another one of the high end places, and they will make you custom shirts for about ~$25 that are high thread count and fit really nice. Monogrammed, too, if you want.

S

 

[snoggy6]

I've had a lot of luck with shirts from Men's Wearhouse, I have tried several brands there. I really like Joseph & Feiss, but all the brands there have been good so far.

 

[seper]

propercloth.com is the best

 

[Neuronix]

http://www.kohls.com/kohlsStore/lan...row+SlimFit+Solid+PointCollar+Dress+Shirt.jsp

I've been mostly wearing these Kohl's Arrow Slim Fit shirts. This is because I'm tall, thin, and broke. Generally I get them mail order because they never have my size in store in any colors I want to wear...

They don't last and they do stain easily, but they're cheap and they look pretty good.

 

[Scatter]

Real ballers get custom made shirts - www.blanklabel.com is high quality.

Or, on your next trip to India or Thailand or whatever third world destination, hit up Reid & Taylor (India) or another one of the high end places, and they will make you custom shirts for about ~$25 that are high thread count and fit really nice. Monogrammed, too, if you want.

S

Interesante ...

It just so happens that there are two related articles in today's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/02/fashion/his-tape-measure-encircles-the-globe.html?ref=fashion

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/02/fashion/finding-a-custom-tailor-in-hong-kong.html?ref=fashion

 

[oldmanriver]

During residency I bought my dress shirts from Kohl's (Apt 9 brand) or JC Penny (Claiborne brand). I'm looking to upgrade.

Any suggestions for dress shirt brands?

www.ctshirts.com (Charles Tyrwhitt), brooks brothers, or www.shirtsmyway.com for cutom shirts.

 

[Gfunk6]

For dress shirts, I went for an even split between David Donahue and Brooks Brothers. For shoes, Bruno Magli and Magnnani. For belts, Allen Edmonds. For sportscoats, Joseph Abboud & Nordstorm brand. For slacks, Boss and Pazoni. When I go to KY in 1.5 months, I'm thinking of getting a Hugo Boss suit. If I'm going to fail or condition, I may as well do it in style.

Damn, I'm starting to sound like Patrick Bateman.

 

[Knucklehead]

interesting article about how clothes affect self-perception and thereby influence performance

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/clothes-and-self-perception.html?_r=2