Away electives and prelim questions

[Misopogon]

Hi everyone. I am a MS3 who is trying to figure out my schedule for fourth year which for my school starts in March.

For away rotations, how competitive are the applications? Is it acceptable to apply to more than one at a time and if so how many do you guys usually apply to get one spot? For a reference point, I am thinking of doing 2 rotations and am mostly looking in the mid-atlantic and NE areas but am open to other areas. Most likely, 1 big-name program and 1 program where I want to live regardless of tier or status.

Secondly, I haven't decided what to do for intern year. I have heard both TY and prelims are acceptable but I am wondering if anyone has done a prelim in OBGYN? I am also considering medicine but I wouldn't mind doing OBGYN given it has a good mix of procedures and I really liked it.

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[medgator]

Ob/gyn? Hmmmm.

Sounds like you are torn between two specialties

 

[thaddeus]

While I've never heard of anyone doing this, I actually don't think this is totally crazy, for 2 reasons:

1) There are a some similarities between OB/GYN and Rad Onc in terms of being a mix of outpatient clinic, impatient and procedures (though the culture of the two fields are pretty different)

2) There are definitely some tangible skills that you would learn during an OB/GYN intern year that would benefit you in rad onc, namely the pelvic exam and an understanding of pelvic anatomy.

That said, OB/GYN intern years are generally grueling and usually miserable experiences, so be sure you REALLY want to do this over a nice TY before signing on.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

ugh!!! OBGYN???? that is seriously DISGUSTING. One of the worst rotations ever in medical school. The OB interns i see in the elevator literally look like half dead.

 

[ramsesthenice]

ugh!!! OBGYN???? that is seriously DISGUSTING.

Very mature response. Especially for someone in a field that treats GYN patients that frequently have big, bleeding, stinking, fistulous female cancers and poor hygiene.

I agree with thaddeus above, this actually would make a lot of sense to me. It likely would be pretty tough hours wise but if you enjoy it maybe it would be worth it. It is a nice mix of procedures and outpatient work. Also, we treat a lot of gyn and remembering general health maintenance issues is important during follow up. Knowing about fertility options for younger cancer patients is also important. I can think of a lot of useful things you could learn during this year and apply it to your career as a radiation oncologist that you wouldn't get in a medicine or surgical prelim.

Don't over think it. In the long run, it doesn't matter what you do for your first year. You will get good training in radiation oncology at virtually all programs in the country. Just do something you enjoy before you get to residency.

 

[xrthopeful]

I think carbonionangle meant the idea of doing a terrible miserable scut-work filled intern year was disgusting, not the IDEA of pelvic anatomy and diseases.

but anyways this is irrelevant because there is NO SUCH THING as prelim OB GYN spots.

 

[AZGuy]

Hi everyone. I am a MS3 who is trying to figure out my schedule for fourth year which for my school starts in March.

For away rotations, how competitive are the applications? Is it acceptable to apply to more than one at a time and if so how many do you guys usually apply to get one spot? For a reference point, I am thinking of doing 2 rotations and am mostly looking in the mid-atlantic and NE areas but am open to other areas. Most likely, 1 big-name program and 1 program where I want to live regardless of tier or status.

Secondly, I haven't decided what to do for intern year. I have heard both TY and prelims are acceptable but I am wondering if anyone has done a prelim in OBGYN? I am also considering medicine but I wouldn't mind doing OBGYN given it has a good mix of procedures and I really liked it.

I applied to something like 4 programs per away rotation, had to turn down some, when I turned them down I just appologized and said unfortunately there is a scheduling conflict. Didn't seem to matter.

Never heard of anyone doing an OB/Gyn prelim, but from what ive seen on programs websites, I think it should be ok. I'd suggest TY or prelim medicine though.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Very mature response. Especially for someone in a field that treats GYN patients that frequently have big, bleeding, stinking, fistulous female cancers and poor hygiene.

I agree with thaddeus above, this actually would make a lot of sense to me. It likely would be pretty tough hours wise but if you enjoy it maybe it would be worth it. It is a nice mix of procedures and outpatient work. Also, we treat a lot of gyn and remembering general health maintenance issues is important during follow up. Knowing about fertility options for younger cancer patients is also important. I can think of a lot of useful things you could learn during this year and apply it to your career as a radiation oncologist that you wouldn't get in a medicine or surgical prelim.

Don't over think it. In the long run, it doesn't matter what you do for your first year. You will get good training in radiation oncology at virtually all programs in the country. Just do something you enjoy before you get to residency.

There is no such thing as an OBGYN pre-lim. If there was such thing and you're clearly suggesting it as something which would "make a lot of sense", then you're providing terrible advice, while showing how much sense of humour you have. The only funny thing was perhaps your hilariously off base description of OB. Sure sounds great man!

 

[RSAOaky]

Just do the easiest intern year you can. Whether that be a TY or an easy medicine prelim or whatever. If there's certain things you really want exposure to then try doing a TY and use your electives to do so. There's a tremendous amount of scut with any intern year so you deal with a lot of work that will never benefit you in order to get a few moments of the experience that you seek. A TY, in theory, would let you minimize your scut and get those experiences.

 

[Misopogon]

Just do the easiest intern year you can. Whether that be a TY or an easy medicine prelim or whatever. If there's certain things you really want exposure to then try doing a TY and use your electives to do so. There's a tremendous amount of scut with any intern year so you deal with a lot of work that will never benefit you in order to get a few moments of the experience that you seek. A TY, in theory, would let you minimize your scut and get those experiences.

I checked out Frieda and it seems there are about 20 prelim programs in OBGYN. It seems they do exist. I am not wild about ding surgery for my prelim year so I thought OBGYN would be a good compromise since it has some procedures and also you get some exposure to gyn stuff which can be useful for your rad onc years. It is obviously highly program dependent but the OBGYN residents at my program seemed like they were happy with their hours and it didn't look like they were miserable.

 

[radoncopotamus]

From the acgme website:
IV.A.6.a) The first year of post-graduate clinical education must be spent in internal medicine, family medicine, obstetrics and gynecology, surgery or surgical specialties, pediatrics, or a transitional year program, and must include at least nine months of direct patient care in medical and/or surgical specialties other than radiation oncology.

I think you're crazy but if you want an ob/gyn prelim go for it...

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

I'm not the type to discourage someone from doing something different, but if you weigh everything, I think an obgyn intern year could put you behind your fellow interns. Probably not a big deal in the long run, but I suspect it won't help you. As well, I generally don't see the pgy2s rotating much on gyn service at the programs I've interviewed. On the other hand, at my Ty I've rotated with radonc, heme onc, surg onc, path, rads. Yes, I'll have little gyn experience, and won't do anything procedural beyond icu stuff, but I'm having a broad experience. And lots of free time. A Ty, or elective-laden prelim is honestly the right answer if prepping for next year is your goal. Obgyn would be an experience,though...

 

[seper]

you can do TY and request extra OB-GYN "rotations"

 

[NotBeyonce]

Hi everyone. I am a MS3 who is trying to figure out my schedule for fourth year which for my school starts in March.

For away rotations, how competitive are the applications? Is it acceptable to apply to more than one at a time and if so how many do you guys usually apply to get one spot? For a reference point, I am thinking of doing 2 rotations and am mostly looking in the mid-atlantic and NE areas but am open to other areas. Most likely, 1 big-name program and 1 program where I want to live regardless of tier or status.

Secondly, I haven't decided what to do for intern year. I have heard both TY and prelims are acceptable but I am wondering if anyone has done a prelim in OBGYN? I am also considering medicine but I wouldn't mind doing OBGYN given it has a good mix of procedures and I really liked it.

The Radiation Oncology Education Collaborative Study Group (https://roecsg.uchicago.edu/page/member-institutions) has some good options of where you can do your away rotations. In general, all of these places care about med student/resident education and will help you with the match.

 

[SJSM001]

You could get all of the above mentioned skills in a well run and flexible TY program also. I did 6 weeks of hands on surgery, two months of outpatient, some gyn, emergency medicine, and others didnother equally relevant things like Peds, pathology and radiology. You're not getting anything by doing OB/ Gyn you wouldn't get by doing a good TY. And my hunch is that an OB/Gyn intern year is much like a surgery prelim- lots of floor scut and very little actual operating/ learning. And you'll be a heck of a lot less prepared for Step III.

 

[sunealoneal]

For away rotations, how competitive are the applications? Is it acceptable to apply to more than one at a time and if so how many do you guys usually apply to get one spot?

The Radiation Oncology Education Collaborative Study Group (https://roecsg.uchicago.edu/page/member-institutions) has some good options of where you can do your away rotations. In general, all of these places care about med student/resident education and will help you with the match.

Just want to re-emphasize this part of OP's question. Is getting into an audition a matter of signing up before other students, or is there an mini-application process?

 

[NotBeyonce]

Just want to re-emphasize this part of OP's question. Is getting into an audition a matter of signing up before other students, or is there an mini-application process?

I agree with above response. In most places, it is just getting in before others say they want to do a rotation. Most places will do a light screen (e.g. make sure you did not fail courses).

 

[metallica81788]

I agree with above response. In most places, it is just getting in before others say they want to do a rotation. Most places will do a light screen (e.g. make sure you did not fail courses).

Agreed again. This is why it's good to have a plan on which rotations you want and when you want to do them. You can submit for multiple time frames for the same location to ensure you get where you want to go. It's really helpful to have multiple schedules and options all before the away applications start. This makes sure you go where you want and when you want. There will still be surprises but this way you'll be prepared - most people aren't as prepared for away rotation applications as they are for ERAS.