Away rotations at a place that are reaches?

[bubblesort]

Would it be wise to do rotations at a place that are reaches? Say, something very competitive such as at McLean/MGH or Cambridge Health Alliance (even though that's not the location I'm specifically looking at)? I know that getting the away rotation itself isn't very competitive, but if I end up doing an away rotation somewhere, would it nonetheless be a waste of time because my stats don't measure up? (i.e. even if they gave me a courtesy interview, would it be exactly that and not actually give me a chance at landing a residency at that site?)

If it matters, I'm a M3 at a well-ranked US allopathic school, though I don't have outstanding credentials (mediocre step 1 that is above average for psych applicants overall but not stellar; likely average clinical performance; maybe 2-3 publications/research experiences, consistent demonstrated interest in psychiatry).

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[wolfvgang22]

All I can say is that I think it does help. It worked for me.

 

[Psychotic]

I didn't do it, and I can't imagine squeezing that in to the first half of 4th year with also taking CK and CS, pulling together the ERAS stuff, and interviewing from October to early January. Looking back, I still can't imagine where I would have done an away that would have made a difference for where i matched, either, but I had no designs on one of the elite programs.

Like the OP, I had avg paych stats, average med student grades, but I attended a so-called top 20 med school (and I think that resulted in more interview invites than I may have gotten at a 'lesser" med school, but not sure).

More power to the folks who did it, though.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Even if it is “just a courtesy interview”, you will probably get on the rank list and who knows what will happen this year. The key point is that they get to know your work. If you do well, scores become secondary to clear proof that you can do an above average job. I think away rotations make more sense for “reach programs”, unless of course you are doing one to be near someone.

 

[Jorje286]

Would it be wise to do rotations at a place that are reaches? Say, something very competitive such as at McLean/MGH or Cambridge Health Alliance (even though that's not the location I'm specifically looking at)? I know that getting the away rotation itself isn't very competitive, but if I end up doing an away rotation somewhere, would it nonetheless be a waste of time because my stats don't measure up? (i.e. even if they gave me a courtesy interview, would it be exactly that and not actually give me a chance at landing a residency at that site?)

If it matters, I'm a M3 at a well-ranked US allopathic school, though I don't have outstanding credentials (mediocre step 1 that is above average for psych applicants overall but not stellar; likely average clinical performance; maybe 2-3 publications/research experiences, consistent demonstrated interest in psychiatry).

I don't think your stats rule you out of very competitive places. And there's nothing better to set you apart from the crowd than actually working with the people you want to work with in the future. The only way you can show you're good in psychiatry is by actually doing it. No performance on the steps can make up for that. I also doubt there's something called 'courtesy interview' in MGH-level places. Those interview positions are really precious. So if you think you can do a great job and impress your attendings, then I think it's a very good idea. You can do one rotation at a reach place and another one at a less competitive one where you think you have a good chance.

That's my view of those things. Still an applicant, so maybe someone with more experience can chime in.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Maybe "courtesy interview" isn't the best term, but you are more likely to get an interview if the program director knows who you are. I know, because it happened to me.

 

[MidwestMD2015]

I did two away rotations at great programs, interviewed at both, ranked them high. I was lucky to have gotten interviews at some other great places too though, and matched somewhere I hadn't done an away but liked even better! I'm very glad I did it and recommend aways to anyone considering it. Certainly will get your foot in the door, especially if the program is geographically somewhere you have no ties to.

If you have the time and it's not too expensive, go for it! Seeing another hospital system, a special area of psychiatry/elective you couldn't do anywhere else, or even just trying out a different part of the country is worth it. I met lots of amazing people and had a great time! If you can't make it work, no big loss. Good luck!

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Would it be wise to do rotations at a place that are reaches? Say, something very competitive such as at McLean/MGH or Cambridge Health Alliance (even though that's not the location I'm specifically looking at)? I know that getting the away rotation itself isn't very competitive, but if I end up doing an away rotation somewhere, would it nonetheless be a waste of time because my stats don't measure up? (i.e. even if they gave me a courtesy interview, would it be exactly that and not actually give me a chance at landing a residency at that site?)

If it matters, I'm a M3 at a well-ranked US allopathic school, though I don't have outstanding credentials (mediocre step 1 that is above average for psych applicants overall but not stellar; likely average clinical performance; maybe 2-3 publications/research experiences, consistent demonstrated interest in psychiatry).

I would think very carefully about this. I agree with what most everyone else says, but bear in mind that you have to actually perform well on the rotation itself AND be liked by the residents/faculty without appearing over eager/overstepping your grounds (I've seen all kinds of performances from SubIs who rotate at my program). Your credentials are solid and should land you interviews at some great programs (barring any red flags, etc); however MGH and the like are so competitive that even people from top 10 med schools/ridiculous scores etc don't always get interviews (I know multiple examples). You really have to be honest with yourself and ask yourself if you can really put on a show and shine during a 4-ish week elective. If not, it's probably not worth the time/$.

Another point: stellar med student (even MS4 SubI) does NOT always equal stellar resident (*cue* the people on this board who are involved in resident education citing their experience/literature contradicting me, but whatever). Even though I performed reasonably well in medical school, looking back I was at times an AWFUL MS3/MS4 (esp compared to the med students I supervise now) because I am horrible at faking interest, have no sense of urgency when I'm not the one actually responsible, and required lots of re direction. However, as a resident, as the one actually making decisions/taking care of patients (we have lots of opportunities for autonomy at my program even as off services interns on medicine and somewhat on neuro), I was much more engaged, proactive, and decisive. I even have developed quite a bit of "sphincter tone" Of course my reading is a lot more relevant as a resident (primary literature/patients rather than poorly written shelf review books). I know other residents for whom this is true as well. Similarly, I know AOA/all star med students who crashed and burned in residency. The point is be honest with yourself and know that even if you are a clinically mediocre medical student, if you work hard, read, and think, you can become a great resident.

 

[OrangeOrange]

Currently a 3rd year in a competitive coastal region, but very excited about several programs in the midwest and south. My classmates who interviewed in those areas last cycle warned me that they got a LOT of questions from polite but suspicious interviewers about why they applied there and whether they were truly interested etc.
Should I do aways to hopefully mitigate this? Or go with the less risky route of sending a really nice email?

 

[Merovinge]

Currently a 3rd year in a competitive coastal region, but very excited about several programs in the midwest and south. My classmates who interviewed in those areas last cycle warned me that they got a LOT of questions from polite but suspicious interviewers about why they applied there and whether they were truly interested etc.
Should I do aways to hopefully mitigate this? Or go with the less risky route of sending a really nice email?

It's very important to convey why you are interested in coming to the area. As a life long midwesterner, we are painfully aware at the perceived superiority of the coasts and if you are coming from a very competitive coastal med school it is absolutely something you need to address. Programs do not want to rank highly residents who they think are using their program as a fall-back option so you need to discuss something pulling you to the specific program or city, particularly with the PD. This is something I had no idea about as a med student but has become clear to me after completing a residency in the midwest.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

And none of this would be true if there was a way to limit hyper-interviewing. If we could cut people to a dozen interviews, programs would assume everyone was interested. This will never happen so here we are.

 

[Monocles]

Yes you absolutely should! I rotated at a Harvard fellowship and got a great LOR from it, which helped me get a ton of interviews in the northeast (I am from the Midwest). Ended up matching at a Harvard residency.

 

[NWwildcat2013]

It's very important to convey why you are interested in coming to the area. As a life long midwesterner, we are painfully aware at the perceived superiority of the coasts and if you are coming from a very competitive coastal med school it is absolutely something you need to address. Programs do not want to rank highly residents who they think are using their program as a fall-back option so you need to discuss something pulling you to the specific program or city, particularly with the PD. This is something I had no idea about as a med student but has become clear to me after completing a residency in the midwest.

What if I am a Midwesterner born and raised but went to a coast for medical school. I've decided I want to come back because I much prefer the Midwest. Do you think I would have any need to do aways or would it be obvious from my background information on my application such as where I went to undergrad that I am just trying to return home?

 

[Bartelby]

What if I am a Midwesterner born and raised but went to a coast for medical school. I've decided I want to come back because I much prefer the Midwest. Do you think I would have any need to do aways or would it be obvious from my background information on my application such as where I went to undergrad that I am just trying to return home?

I would mention it explicitly to programs, but you don't need to complete an away rotation to do so. If you are a relatively competitive applicant for those programs I think an away rotation (done primarily to demonstrate interest) would be a waste of time.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

What if I am a Midwesterner born and raised but went to a coast for medical school. I've decided I want to come back because I much prefer the Midwest. Do you think I would have any need to do aways or would it be obvious from my background information on my application such as where I went to undergrad that I am just trying to return home?

It's obvious from your avatar where you went to undergrad. The best midwest programs take coastal applicants all the time- it's not an issue

 

[FlowRate]

Multiple people in my residency cohort did away rotations (here) and I think it worked in their favor. Or at least didn't hurt them...

All I've learned at this point is that it's really hard to predict which people will actually be good/bad residents. People can fake normal for an interview day or even for a month long clerkship.

 

[Merovinge]

What if I am a Midwesterner born and raised but went to a coast for medical school. I've decided I want to come back because I much prefer the Midwest. Do you think I would have any need to do aways or would it be obvious from my background information on my application such as where I went to undergrad that I am just trying to return home?

I would still bring it up in an interview. You can casually mention how (clearly) superior Midwesterners are to coastal folks for a bit of a laugh (if that's your personality) or mention something like family being very important to you and how excited you are to get back closer to home. Basically any reasonable way of discussing it will go very well for you.

 

[clozareal]

For what it's worth, I think your credentials are similar to mine and I got interviews at top places (MGH, CHA, Columbia, etc.) where I didn't do an away rotation. Average credentials for other residencies can be pretty outstanding for psychiatry, especially given the competitiveness isn't too high yet. I did two away rotations and got interviews at both too though. If you do an away rotation, make sure you do it in a core rotation like inpatient psychiatry and not a subspecialty like addiction or child because you might not get to interact with faculty/residents who are part of that residency program. If you are a nice, decent person who is genuinely curious and wants to learn as much as you can (and the faculty/residents see this), I would say go ahead and do an away rotation there. The faculty I interacted with during my MGH interview say that they a ton of away students rotating there, some of whom they loved.

If you don't have good chemistry with the faculty/staff, then my opinion is that you wouldn't want to be at that residency anyways. It's all based on fit. It'll give you good insight into the program to see whether you get good vibes from that place. There are a lot of residency programs that put on a face during the interview day to make it seem shiny and happy, but they are miserable underneath.