AZCOM v. COMP: Advice Please!

aspiring · Mar 20, 2004

Hello SDN, this is my very first post...and I would appreciate any advice...Thankfully, I've been admitted to AZCOM and COMP...and would like a little help deciding where to attend...particularly regarding; program strengths, clinicals and the possibility of securing a specialized residency...I'm an international student and would truly appreciate your views -Thanks very much!

azcomdiddy · Mar 20, 2004

I?m sure I will take some heat from my fellow AZCOM classmates but I would strongly consider going to COMP especially since you are an international student. I?m currently at AZCOM and I regret choosing this school over some other schools I was accepted to. There is much to like about AZCOM but there is also much to dislike about AZCOM as well.. But if I were to choose between AZCOM and COMP all over again, I would have attended COMP in a heartbeat. AZCOM feels like a very small campus in a remote part of Phoenix. The student body is culturally, politically and geographically homogenous. The school completely lacks diversity at every level. I wish I had known that ahead of time. This schools isn?t full of the most open-minded and well traveled group of people. COMP has far greater diversity than AZCOM especially Asian students. You would be hardpressed to find that here.

I also can?t stand how nearly every student I come across at the school is geared toward primary care. I'm aware the majority of students at any DO school is geared toward a primary care. But at AZCOM, the number seems even more skewed toward primary care than normal. Just look at our match list for confirmation on that. COMP?s match list is more impressive than AZCOM?s. They have many appointments at bigger names like Johns Hopkins, UCLA, Mayo Rochester (not Scottsdale) etc. And lastly, I don?t care what anyone says but setting up rotations here is a pain in the a$$. We are forced to adhering to a preceptorship because the University of Arizona School of Medicine has prevented AZCOM students from doing third year rotations at their sites in the Phoenix metropoitan area. In case you are confused, the U of A medical school offers its basic sciences in Tuscon, but their 3rd and 4th year students rotate at their university affiliated sites in Phoenix. U of A didn't appreciate AZCOM's sudden arrival in 1997, and they essentially blacklisted our students from rotating at their spots. So the school had to come up with a way for us to do rotations. Thus they adopted the preceptorship as a last resort. Of course, the administration doesn't want students to know this and they spin and market the preceptor training as an asset. Nonetheless, most of us know the truth and we do our best to get around it. I?m going to be forced to traveling for six of my rotations during my third year thanks to this policy. And the preceptorship will hurt your chances if you are trying to match for a specialized or competitive residency. Most of the family practice and peds people in my class could care less and don't have a problem with the preceptor program for this reason. But directors are aware of the tremendous differences between a preceptorship and hospital based clerkship. They know that students who spend most of their time in preceptorship aren't familiar with the nuances of a hospital based setting. They are aware that its easy to get better grades with a preceptorship as well. That will count against if you are trying to match in a competitive field.

Now for the good! The classmates here are very nice and cordial. You won?t find a mean spirited person on campus. Even our gunners are pretty cordial. Our facilities are far superior to that of COMP and no student would tell you otherwise. The professors at AZCOM have been a real plus in my eyes. I have learned an extraordinary amount of information thanks to the balanced teaching they provide. The on campus living arrangements are really nice especially at its price. It makes living on campus very affordable. I only pay for electricity. Cable and internet access (T1) is free. Not Bad! The weather here is pretty nice most of the year. Of course, you will get the same type of weather COMP.

You wanted an honest answer and I gave you an honest response. And this is coming from an AZCOM student so you be the judge. Good luck in your decision. Now keep in mind, you will get many students who respond and accuse of making things up etc. But most of these students will say anything to save the reputation of their school and will offer a defensive response to all of my comments. Just be aware of that.

LukeWhite · Mar 21, 2004

Aspiring,

Here are a few threads you might find useful:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98117

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98819

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90422

For my part, I dropped all other schools, osteo and allo, once the AZCOM acceptance came precisely because of the preceptor setup. For learning how to do, it's unrivaled. As for specialties, etc., I can't really say much--I consider the primary care focus an advantage, but I'm sure you'll hear all sorts of useful statistics and opinions from my classmates who plan on competitive specialties. Personally, I'd be skeptical of any DO school that brags about the number of specialists it turns out; there's no DO school so prestigious that it will open many doors that you wouldn't be able to open yourself, and it seems to me any school saying different is trying to sell you something.

From what I've seen over the past few years on SDN, I'd say the ratio of unhappy COMPers to disgruntled AZCOMERs is in the double digits. As long as you come here with a plan of attack for involving yourself in your education more than you would at the average school, you'll almost certainly be happy here.

dollarbincommon · Mar 21, 2004

azcomdiddy,

why doesn't U of A like AZCOM? I don't see anything wrong with 2 medical schools in Arizona. Is it because it's a DO or that there aren't many spaces?

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by lukealfredwhite
Aspiring,

Here are a few threads you might find useful:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98117

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98819

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90422

For my part, I dropped all other schools, osteo and allo, once the AZCOM acceptance came precisely because of the preceptor setup. For learning how to do, it's unrivaled. As for specialties, etc., I can't really say much--I consider the primary care focus an advantage, but I'm sure you'll hear all sorts of useful statistics and opinions from my classmates who plan on competitive specialties. Personally, I'd be skeptical of any DO school that brags about the number of specialists it turns out; there's no DO school so prestigious that it will open many doors that you wouldn't be able to open yourself, and it seems to me any school saying different is trying to sell you something.

From what I've seen over the past few years on SDN, I'd say the ratio of unhappy COMPers to disgruntled AZCOMERs is in the double digits. As long as you come here with a plan of attack for involving yourself in your education more than you would at the average school, you'll almost certainly be happy here.

Good points, but I disagree with your stance that certain DO schools don't provide advantages over others in regards to placement. Yes, it's true that no DO school is significantly more reputable than other DO schools in regards to placing students in prestigious programs.

But I have noticed that DO schools vary the number of students who elect to specialize. AZCOM seems to have a higher percentage of students who wish to enter primary care than many DO schools. Students from osteopathic schools that have traditionally placed more graduates into specialized fields have advantages that we don't, because directors are familiar with their program due their alumni. Kirksville comes to mind. Also, some schools have vastly better relationships with local hospitals. That can be a huge advantage in regards to students matching in certain specialties. Michigan State is an example of this. They have strong ties to many area hospitals. And Michigan in general has many osteopathic affiliated specialty programs which only improves their chances.

AZCOM in comparison to other DO schools seems to have a higher percentage of its class choosing to enter family practice, and other primary care fields. And thus I feel we don't have the strong alumni in specialized fields since our class has historically chosen to enter mostly primary care. The preceptorship doesn't help matters either since man directors particularly allopathic directors are skeptical of its training.

Of course, a student who is in the top 10% of his or her class and scores 250 on step 1 and 95% on the Comlex isn't going to have a problem going anywhere. But for that marginal candidate, school related connections could make a difference.

r90t · Mar 21, 2004

If you are in a school and are not liking it, you can attempt to transfer to another program. We had a gal in my class transfer in at the beginning of 3rd year to be closer to her boyfriend.

I'll be the first one to admit, surprisingly, that the preceptor based rotations worked well for me. I wasn't for it initially. I was ranked #1 out of 25 transitional (allopathic program) interns at the end of last year. This was from the work in 3rd and 4th year of med school, as I found internship to be rather easy. Many schools have 10-16+ weeks off during 3rd/4th year. AZCOM pushed us to the end and it helped. It was a pain in the butt, not having dedicated interview time.

Oh, the rural rotations with minimal diagnostic equipment, was really beneficial. I was in the Persian Gulf this year and had to do most of my dx c minimal lab/radiology.

As far as prestige for programs. My drinking buddy is at Cleveland Clinic for PGY2 year radiology. I will be starting Radiation Oncology at USC in 2005, as it is the earliest the navy will let me go. Good programs that accepted DOs over their MD counterparts.

Each class is different. My class was well over-represented in the asian student population. 15-20% of the class were of asian americans.

Look at cost of living, neighborhoods the school is in and where you will be living. Where you have friends/relatives for support already. Compare board pass rate. You interviewed at both schools, which did you feel most comfortable with??

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by dollarbincommon
azcomdiddy,

why doesn't U of A like AZCOM? I don't see anything wrong with 2 medical schools in Arizona. Is it because it's a DO or that there aren't many spaces?

There is a long story behind that. No, it's not because the University of Arizona hates osteopathic education. It has mostly to do with the idea that Midwestern didn't consult with the U of A. prior to establishing itself here. Kirksville has rotation spots here for some of its third year students. However, they had to come to terms with the University of Arizona beforehand. Midwestern just arrived here and decided to establish itself. I don't think Midwestern did anything wrong. And the University of Arizona is known for being rather anal about its medical school program. In fact, the University of Arizona and Arizona State have fought for years because ASU wanted to establish a medical school in Phoenix.

Anyway, to make a long story short, Midwestern didn't do anything but rather they are the unfortunate victims of a state university that is despertately trying to protect its turf. Over the years, the relationship has improved and it is hypothesized than more opporunities will be available for third years to rotate at. However, that is all just a big rumor at this point and nothing has essentially changed. I'm still going to have to do many of my third year clerkships out of state because I want to specialize. Thus I want to make myself a competitive candidate by doing as many rotations possible at a hospital based program.

I don't think AZCOM students are at a disadvantage if they schedule their clerkships properly. However, it is an extra hassle that AZCOM students have to deal with. You really have to stay on top of it as we have one little old lady who essentially does little to nothing for you in regards to setting up rotations.

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by r90t
If you are in a school and are not liking it, you can attempt to transfer to another program. We had a gal in my class transfer in at the beginning of 3rd year to be closer to her boyfriend.

I'll be the first one to admit, surprisingly, that the preceptor based rotations worked well for me. I wasn't for it initially. I was ranked #1 out of 25 transitional (allopathic program) interns at the end of last year. This was from the work in 3rd and 4th year of med school, as I found internship to be rather easy. Many schools have 10-16+ weeks off during 3rd/4th year. AZCOM pushed us to the end and it helped. It was a pain in the butt, not having dedicated interview time.

Oh, the rural rotations with minimal diagnostic equipment, was really beneficial. I was in the Persian Gulf this year and had to do most of my dx c minimal lab/radiology.

As far as prestige for programs. My drinking buddy is at Cleveland Clinic for PGY2 year radiology. I will be starting Radiation Oncology at USC in 2005, as it is the earliest the navy will let me go. Good programs that accepted DOs over their MD counterparts.

Each class is different. My class was well over-represented in the asian student population. 15-20% of the class were of asian americans.

Look at cost of living, neighborhoods the school is in and where you will be living. Where you have friends/relatives for support already. Compare board pass rate. You interviewed at both schools, which did you feel most comfortable with??

Radonc is big time. Congrats. I'm gunning for a competitive field as well. I'm ranked pretty high in my class (top 10%) so I'm not transferring, otherwise I would.

r90t · Mar 21, 2004

Things the radonc's looked at were...
Board Scores
Letters of Recommendation
Class Rank
Board Scores
Board Scores

I didn't take USMLE, however, some of the competative programs would use that as the standardized cutoff, say 90th percentile and below, wouldn't get an interview, ex. rads.

If you do a rotation at a place that you want to go to, the staff and residents want someone that they could work with for several years. I used the residents/staff for LORs, as well, stating something like, I would love to work with him in the future...he would do well in any program...

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by r90t
Things the radonc's looked at were...
Board Scores
Letters of Recommendation
Class Rank
Board Scores
Board Scores

I didn't take USMLE, however, some of the competative programs would use that as the standardized cutoff, say 90th percentile and below, wouldn't get an interview, ex. rads.

If you do a rotation at a place that you want to go to, the staff and residents want someone that they could work with for several years. I used the residents/staff for LORs, as well, stating something like, I would love to work with him in the future...he would do well in any program...

ENT so I know almost everything I do will be weighed heavily. I will almost certainly have to do my residency in an AOA program to even stand a chance at ENT. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

LukeWhite · Mar 21, 2004

Diddy's points are, as usual, cogent. Here's a slight expansion on my take, which as you can guess, coming from an MS-1 may be hopelessly naive. I'm sure if I'm wrong, though, we'll have a few upperclassman to set things straight.

While I'm not angling for a competitive specialty, I am planning on a competitive allopathic FP residency. I've got a very specific idea of the type of medicine I'm going to practice and the procedures I plan to do, and only a handful of residencies fit the bill. This is probably the case for a variety of specialties.

The problem is that most medical schools ARE geographically oriented, as AZD rightly points out. This is especially true for rotations--you may get plenty of easily-planned hospital rotations, but the vast majority of them are generally going to be in-system.

If your aim is just Specialty X, and especially one pretty homogenous throughout the country, no worries. You'll make the local connections and have an advantage. This is especially useful for people who have a strong desire to practice in one particular location.

If you want more flexibility, though, the traditional system makes it sort of tough. For one, it's hard to distinguish yourself from your classmates by anything but grades or the frankly distasteful web of politics and intrigues surrounding the whole process, because you're sure not going to be doing a whole lot of procedures when you have the three-deep phalanx of residents, interns, and 4th years ahead of you.

In my opinion, AZCOM shines here for two reasons: First, you get a lot of procedures under your belt. Secondly, you have plenty of flexibility to do audition rotations wherever and more or less whenever you like. The two work together well--you can concentrate on getting the skills as a third year, when you're not going to impress much of anyone anyway, and then set about using them in fourth year in places where it'll make a difference.

Again, it'll depend on the specialty you want, the location, how willing you are to be aggressive in setting up rotations, etc. For FP at least, I think it's ideal--west coast FP is way different from east coast/midwest, and if I'd stuck around in Michigan, even at an allo, I'd probably be at a disadvantage when it came time to head west. If you've got a clear view of what you want to do and how you want to do it, though, AZCOM gives you a definite edge.

On a less analytical level, I've just never gotten a good vibe from COMP. It always seems as if the school's on the verge of imploding. They don't cast themselves in marble like certain osteopathic schools, but there do seem to be a whole lot of shady money issues. AZCOM has its faults, but it seems as on the level as a private DO school can be. Damning with faint praise, perhaps, but stability's a rare commodity in the rough-and-tumble world of osteopathic education.

Dr JPH · Mar 21, 2004

Though I am not very familair with either school I must chime in to say that chosing a school based on past match lists may not be a great idea.

California is an incredibly competitive state when it comes to matching into top residencies. I am not familiar with much of the west coast as I am a PCOMer, so I don't know how the AZCOM v COMP things stacks up out there.

I guess what I am trying to say is, you need to find the school that best fits YOU.

However, I do agree that not having many specialist alums can be detrimental.

jhug · Mar 21, 2004

Radonc is big time. Congrats. I'm gunning for a competitive field as well. I'm ranked pretty high in my class (top 10%) so I'm not transferring, otherwise I would.

Just curious....
how did you find this out?.....(to O.P. i ask b/c the school doesn't give out "rankings" in hopes of limiting unnecessary competition) but if someone figured out a way...kudos.

Adapt · Mar 21, 2004

Aspiring, you have to find what you want to do and where you want to do it at. If you are from CA and eventually want to stay in CA, I would go to COMP in a heart beat.

First, unlike AZCOM who appears to get slapped around by U of A, COMP students do their rotations at all the major hospitals in southern CA including at the USC, UCLA, Loma Linda, and UCI hospitals. COMP students often rotate alongside the MD students from these schools. If you want, you can do all your rotations right there in southern CA so you won't have to move around a lot.

Also, as someone stated, COMP places graduates throughout CA at major institutions. The reason is, it's been around since 1970 so the DOs that lead programs prefer COMP graduates since they themselves were COMP graduates. This is true for the DO residencies in southern CA for neurosurgery, anesthesiology, and general surgery. AZCOM has only been around since 1995. Hence the problems with rotations.

Also, as azcomdiddy said, COMP is very diverse ethnically while AZCOM is not.

Finally, we can all talk about how beautiful the campus is at AZCOM but at the end of the day what counts is the last two years of rotations and the ability of students to get placed in good residencies. I think COMP's clinical years are better than AZCOM's. As far as residency, I am not sure how the two compare but I do know COMP's is quite good.

If you want to eventually work in CA, COMP's your choice.

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by jhug
Just curious....
how did you find this out?.....(to O.P. i ask b/c the school doesn't give out "rankings" in hopes of limiting unnecessary competition) but if someone figured out a way...kudos.

We are ranked. It's not provided to us. But we are ranked. And we aren't ranked into thirds or anything like that. It is straight 1-2-3-4. I found out. There are ways. That's as far as I'm going.

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by lukealfredwhite

If you want more flexibility, though, the traditional system makes it sort of tough. For one, it's hard to distinguish yourself from your classmates by anything but grades or the frankly distasteful web of politics and intrigues surrounding the whole process, because you're sure not going to be doing a whole lot of procedures when you have the three-deep phalanx of residents, interns, and 4th years ahead of you.

In my opinion, AZCOM shines here for two reasons: First, you get a lot of procedures under your belt. Secondly, you have plenty of flexibility to do audition rotations wherever and more or less whenever you like. The two work together well--you can concentrate on getting the skills as a third year, when you're not going to impress much of anyone anyway, and then set about using them in fourth year in places where it'll make a difference.

Again, it'll depend on the specialty you want, the location, how willing you are to be aggressive in setting up rotations, etc. For FP at least, I think it's ideal--west coast FP is way different from east coast/midwest, and if I'd stuck around in Michigan, even at an allo, I'd probably be at a disadvantage when it came time to head west. If you've got a clear view of what you want to do and how you want to do it, though, AZCOM gives you a definite edge.

On a less analytical level, I've just never gotten a good vibe from COMP. It always seems as if the school's on the verge of imploding. They don't cast themselves in marble like certain osteopathic schools, but there do seem to be a whole lot of shady money issues. AZCOM has its faults, but it seems as on the level as a private DO school can be. Damning with faint praise, perhaps, but stability's a rare commodity in the rough-and-tumble world of osteopathic education.

Good points but I think you can expand on each note

1. While preceptorship may allow more hands on experience and is nice in theory, it's not very practical. In reality, your residency is going to represent a hospital based clerkship not a preceptorship. That includes more than learning medicine. It includes working alongside a group of medical students and the politics that go along with that. Things are done differently in a preceptorship versus a hospital based setting as well. You have to be familiar with the way things operate in a hospital. If you are seeking a competitive allopathic residency in FP, I would highly encourage you to do much your 12 weeks of family in a hospital based setting if possible. I will admit that I will think the hands-on nature of the preceptorship is pretty cool, but I heard it also depends on who your preceptor is. If you get a great one, then you can learn an incredible amount of information. If you get one who would prefer if you just "observed" then you could be limiting yourself.

2. In regards to audition rotations, almost every medical school in this country affords one to do that. This isn't just a feature of AZCOM like you are suggesting. Just because these schools have affiliated teaching hospitals, it doesn't limit their to only rotating there. I know tons of students from state allopathic schools with teaching hospitals that did audition rotations elsewhere. Those students are afforded the opportunity to stay home during their third year if they want. I, and many of my classmates are forced to going outside of Phoenix if we want hospital based rotations during our third year. Not only is that inconvenient but it's expensive. This is not an advantage of AZCOM, it's a disadvantage. Many people like you love the preceptorship and will elect to probably do all their rotations in that setting if possible. But for those like who are seeking hospital based rotations, it means additional travel, time and money spent.

I will add that although I have been critical of the school, I would PM several AZCOM students in addition to myself. You can get better infor through PM. Get a variety of opinions before you decide where to go.

San_Juan_Sun · Mar 21, 2004

Just a couple of comments, because they will be buried underneath a mountain of posts anyways. (To the OP, definately check out the threads posted above).

1. From a primay care standpoint, the school is NOT engaged in directing the students towards any paticular career path. Many DO schools, for political and philosophical purposes, actively encourage their students to pursue primary care. In fact, the mission statement of AZCOM was specifically tailored to reflect the do-what-you-want-to-do approach. I have no idea if COMP tries to push their students into primary care.

If azcomdiddy's class is paticularly interested in primary care, he should take that up with his classmates, it's not the school's fault. While I will be specializing, I don't really see how a bulk of the class going into primary care is a bad thing, anywhoo.

2. About diversity, while AZCOM is a private school, it's interesting to note that they admit to targeting specific ethnic/gender ratios for incoming classes.

aspiring · Mar 21, 2004

Hey Guys...This is a great discussion ...Here's an interesting statistic I found in 2004 USNEWS...% of Students entering Primary Care at:
AZCOM 65.0%
COMP 81.0%
However, this stat may only be mildly indicative of residency prospects in one's desired specialization...Would anyone be able to provide a clearer picture of 3rd year rotations at AZCOM....and discuss whether the out-of-state rotations can be conducted at major teaching hospitals, as is the case at COMP?...I hope I can decide by tomorrow...as my deposit is due....Thanks Everyone!

Adapt · Mar 21, 2004

If you are interested, I have three matchlists of COMP's from 2001, 2002, and 2003. The 2001 matchlist reads the best due to its format. Maybe if anyone has an AZCOM matchlist they can post that.

---COMP 2001 Matchlist---
Anesthesiology:

PCOM/Frankford Hospital Longhorne, PA
Henry Ford Hospital Detroit, MI
Wilford Hall/USAFMC Lackland, TX
University of Miami/Jackson Memorial Hospital Miami, FL
University of Connecticut Medical Center Connecticut, CT
UC San Francisco Medical Center San Francisco, CA
UC Irvine Medical Center Irvine, CA
Yale University Medical Center New Haven, CT

Family Medicine:

Eastmoreland Hospital Portland, OR (2)
Loma Linda University Medical Center Loma Linda, CA
University of Missouri Medical Center MO
UC Davis Medical Center Sacramento, CA (2)
KCOM/The Medical Center Columbus, GA
Long Beach Memorial Medical Center Long Beach, CA (3)
USC County Hospital Los Angeles, CA (3)
WesternU/COMP Arrowhead Regional Medical Center Colton, CA (2)
WesternU/COMP Downey Regional Medical Center Downey, CA (3) COMB/FP
UC San Francisco/Fresno Medical Center Fresno, CA
Presbyterian Inter. Hospital Whittier, CA
Travis Air Force Base/Davis Grant Medical Center Granite Bay, CA (2)
MU South Carolina SC
Phoenix Baptist Hospital Phoenix, CA
MSUCOM/Community Health Center Coldwater, MI
UNSM/DFCM Washoe Medical Center Reno, NV
Martin Luther King/Drew Medical Center Los Angeles, CA
Pacific Hospital-Long Beach Long Beach, CA (2)
Riverside County Regional Medical Center Riverside, CA (2)
Glendale Adventist Medical Center Glendale, CA
Walter Reed Army Medical Center
Washington D.C. Family Medicine & Psychiatry UCNCMC
Greenley, CO Family Medicine/Rural Medicine
UNECOM Medical Center Portland, ME
KCOM/Lincoln Health Network Phoenix, AZ
Methodist Hospital of Sacramento Sacramento, CA
Camp Pendleton Naval Hospital Camp Pendleton, CA

Emergency Medicine:

Texas A&M University/Scott and White Medical Center TX
Medical College of Ohio/St. Vincent?s Mercy Medical Center Toledo, OH
MSUCOM/Ingram Regional Medical Center East Lansing, MI
Bi-County/Henry Ford Medical Center Warren, MI
Botsford General Hospital Farmington Hills, MI (2)
Pennsylvania State University/York Hospital PA
PCOM/Philadelphia Consortium Philadelphia, CA
Pacific Hospital-Long Beach Long Beach, CA

Internal Medicine:

Kaiser Permanente Santa Clara Medical Center Santa Clara, CA
UCSF/St. Mary?s Medical Center San Francisco, CA Alameda County Highland General Oakland, CA (2)
Medical College of Wisconsin Hospital Milwaukee, CA
Wright State University/Wright-Patterson Medical Center OH
The Cleveland Clinic Foundation Cleveland, OH
NYCOM/St. Barnabas Hospital Bronx, NY COMB/IM
Loma Linda University Medical Center Loma Linda, CA (3)
Huntington Memorial Hospital Pasadena, CA
YUSPH/Griffin Hospital Durby, CT IM/PM/PH
UCLA/Wadsworth Greater Los Angeles Veterans Administration Hospital Los Angeles, CA
MetroHealth Center Cleveland, OH
Pacific Hospital-Long Beach Long Beach, CA
UCLA/St. Mary Medical Center Long Beach, CA
Wilford Hall USAF Medical Center/Lackland Air Force Base San Antonio, TX
Johns Hopkins University Hospital Baltimore, MD
Garden City Hospital Garden City, MI (2)
UCLA Medical Center Los Angeles, CA
University of Texas/Houston Medical Center Houston, TX
Neurology:
Northwestern University/McGaw Medical Center Chicago, IL
University of Arizona/Tucson Medical Center Tucson, AZ
St. Louis University Hospital St. Louis, MO

OB/GYN:

Medical College of Georgia GA
UC Davis Medical Center Sacramento, CA
Kaiser Permanente, Sunset Los Angeles, CA
Cook County Hospital Chicago, IL
UMDNJ/Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center NJ
WesternU/COMP Arrowhead Regional Medical Center Colton, CA

Pathology:
USC County Hospital Los Angeles, CA

Pediatrics:
Loma Linda University Medical Center Loma Linda, CA
UC San Francisco/Fresno Valley Children?s Hospital Fresno, CA
USC County Hospital Los Angeles, CA
University of Nevada Medical Center Las Vegas, NV
USC/Children?s Hospital of Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA
Cleveland Clinic Children?s Hospital/Cleveland Clinic Foundation Cleveland, OH
UMDNJ/Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center NJ
Texas A&M University/Driscoll Children?s Hospital TX Pediatrics/Neomatology
Henry Ford Hospital Warren, MI COMB/Pediatrics

Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation:
UT/SVMC Medical College of Ohio
Toledo, OH (2)

Psychiatry:
Loma Linda University Medical Center Loma Linda, CA (3)
Tripler Army Medical Center Honolulu, HI
Martin Luther King/Drew University Medical Center Los Angeles, CA

Radiology:
Pontiac Osteopathic Hospital Pontiac, MI
Garden City Hospital Garden City, NY COMB/Diagnostic Radiology
Mount Sinai Medical Center Miami, FL Diagnostic
USC County Hospital Los Angeles, CA Diagnostic
Botsford General Hospital Farmington Hills, MI Diagnostic
Oklahoma University Medical Center/Children?s Hospital/Veteran?s Hospital Oklahoma City, OK Diagnostic

Surgery:
University of Colorado Medical Center Denver, CO General
Tripler Army Medical Center Honolulu, HI General
Martin Luther King/Drew Medical Center Los Angeles, CA General
Martin Luther King/Drew Medical Center Los Angeles, CA Categorical

Traditional Rotating Internship:
WesternU/COMP Arrowhead Regional Medical Center Colton, CA (9)
MSUCOM Consortium/Henry Ford-Riverside Hospital
Detroit, MI Internship/Family Practice
Midwestern University/CCOM/AZCOM Consortium-Mesa Hospital Mesa, AZ (2)
WesternU/COMP Downey Regional Medical Center Downey, CA (3)
Pacific Hospital-Long Beach Long Beach, CA (3)
Mount Clemens General Hospital
Mount Clemens, MI (2)
Genesys Health Systems Grand Blanc, MI
Botsford General Hospital Farmington Hills, MI
UNECOM/Mercy Hospital Biddeford, Me

Adapt · Mar 21, 2004

---COMP 2002 Matchlist---
Institution Program Type City State
Chino Valley MC Family Practice Chino CA
OUCOM/Grandview Hosp. & Med. Ctr Orthopedic Surgery Dayton OH
KCOM/Maricopa Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int Phoenix AZ
White Mem Med Ctr Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA
Chino Valley Med. Ctr. Family Practice Chino CA
Family Practice Huntington Beach CA
Children?s Hospital Pediatrics Los Angeles CA

Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. Family Practice Colton CA
PIH Family Practice Res Family Practice Whittier CA
UC Irvine Med. Ctr. Family Practice Orange CA
U Southern California Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA
Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int. Colton CA
PCOM/Philadelphia Consortium Traditional Rotating Int. Philadelphia PA
Botsford General Hospital Diagnostic Radiology Farmington Hills MI
Sacred Heart Med Ctr Transitional Spokane WA
Naval Medical Center Transitional San Diego CA
Florida Hospital East Orlando Traditional Rotating Int. Orlando FL
Loma Linda University Pediatrics Loma Linda CA
Good Samaritan Internal Medicine Phoenix AZ
Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int. Colton CA
U Southern California Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA

Nassau Univ. Med Ctr Internal Medicine East Meadow NY
Loma Linda University General Surgery Loma Linda CA
Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int. Colton CA

Univ Buffalo Grad Med Emergency Medicine Buffalo NY
Loma Linda University Prev Med/Public Health Loma Linda CA
Orlando Reg Healthcare Pediatrics Orlando FL
U Southern California Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA
Providence Milwaukee Family Practice Milwaukee OR
USC Family Med Res Prog Family Practice Los Angeles CA
UMDNJBOM/St. Francis Hospital Family Practice Jersey City NJ
Mayo Grad Sch of Med Family Practice Scottsdale AZ

Natividad Med Crt Family Practice Salinas CA
DCH Foundation Hospital Traditional Rotating Int. Downey CA
California Hospital Med Ctr Family Practice Los Angeles CA
NY Hosp/Med Ctr Queens Internal Medicine Flushing NY
Doctors Hospital Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int. Montclair CA
Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int. Colton CA
Eastmoreland Hosp. (Osteopathic) Family Practice Portland OR

UC San Francisco Pediatrics Fresno CA
Good Samaritan Internal Medicine Phoenix AZ
MWU-CCOM/AZ GME Consortium/Mesa Family Practice Mesa AZ
UC San Francisco Family Practice/Rural Fresno CA

**Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. Family Practice Colton CA
Oakland Kaiser Pediatrics Oakland CA
USC Family Med Res Prog Family Practice Los Angeles CA
Darnell Army Community Hospital Emergency Medicine Ft. Hood TX
Sutter Health Family Practice/Davis Sacramento CA
UC Irvine Med Ctr Obstetrics/Gynecology Orange CA
VA Greater LA Hlth Sys Psychiatry Sepulveda CA

California Hospital Med Ctr Family Practice Los Angeles CA
Pacific Med Center Internal Medicine San Francisco CA
Children?s Hospital/NEOUCOM Pediatrics Akron OH
Maricopa Med Ctr Medicine-Preliminary Phoenix AZ
NYCOM/Long Beach Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int. Long Beach NY
Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. Family Practice Colton CA
Pacific Hospital Family Practice Long Beach CA
Horizon Hlth. Sys (Bi-County/ Riverside) Psychiatry Warren MI
U Southern California Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA
Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. Family Practice Colton CA
VA Greater LA Hlth Sys Internal Medicine Sepulveda Ca
Danbury Hospital Obstetrics/Gynecology Danbury CT
Cleveland Clinic Fdn Internal Medicine Cleveland OH
DCH Foundation Hospital Traditional Rotating Int. Downey CA
MWU-CCOM/AZ GME Consortium/Mesa Traditional Rotating Int. Mesa AZ
Glendale Adventist Family Practice Glendale CA
U Utah Affil Hospitals Internal Medicine Salt Lake City UT
Children?s Hospital ? Orange County Pediatrics Orange CA
Loyola Univ Med Ctr Psychiatry Maywood IL
Genesys Health Systems Emergency Medicine Grand Blanc MI
USC Family Med Res Prog Family Practice Los Angeles CA
OUCOM/South Pointe/Cleveland Clinic Traditional Rotating Int. Cleveland OH
Kaiser Perm Internal Medicine Oakland CA
Univ of Connecticut Anesthesiology Farmington CT
Uc Irvine Med Ctr Psychiatry Orange CA
Grtr Lawrence Fam Hlth Ctr Family Practice Lawrence MA
California Hosp Med Ctr Family Practice Los Angeles CA
Glendale Adventist Family Practice Glendale CA

Loma Linda University Internal Medicine Loma Linda CA
U Southern California Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA
U Southern California Pediatrics Los Angeles CA
Chino Valley Med. Ctr. Family Practice Chino CA
**DCH Foundation Hospital Traditional Rotating Int. Downey CA
Alameda Co Med Ctr Internal Medicine Oakland CA
U Southern California Psychiatry Los Angeles CA
U Texas HSC Phys Medicine & Rehab San Antonio TX

DCH Foundation Hospital Traditional Rotating Int Downey CA
Oregon Health & Science Univ Psychiatry Portland OR
Garden City Hospital Osteopathic Obstetrics/Gynecology Garden City MI

Loma Linda University Pediatrics Loma Linda CA
U Florida HSC Pediatrics Jacksonville FL
Glendale Adventist Family Practice Glendale CA
Univ Hosps Cleveland Pediatrics Cleveland OH
Chino Valley Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Chino CA
Kern Medical Center Transitional Bakersfield CA
TX A&M-Scott & White Emergency Medicine Temple TX
Pomona Valley Hosp Family Practice Pomona CA

Pacific Hospital - Long Beach Family Practice Long Beach CA
U Hawaii Pathology Res Pathology Honolulu HI
CA Pacific Med Center Psychiatry San Francisco CA
DCH Foundation Hospital Family Practice Downey CA
Kaiser Oakland OB/GYN Oakland CA
New England Med Ctr Anesthesiology Boston MA
Einstein/Jacobi Internal Medicine Bronx NY
Washington Hosp Ctr Internal Medicine Washington DC
Beth Israel Med Ctr Family Practice New York NY
Good Samaritan Psychiatry Phoenix AZ
Atlantic Health Sys Pediatrics Summit NJ
Loma Linda University Pediatrics Loma Linda CA

Chino Valley Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int. Chino CA

Botsford General Hospital Internal Medicine Farmington Hills MI
Univ Arizona Affil Hosps Psychiatry Tucson AZ

Darnall Army Community Hospital Family Practice Fort Hood TX
Pacific Hospital - Long Beach Family Practice Long Beach Ca

Travis Air Force Base/Grant Med. Internal Medicine Travis AFB CA
UC Irvine Med Ctr Pediatrics Orange CA
St Mary?s Medical Ctr Internal Medicine San Francisco CA
U Southern California Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA
SUNY HSC Pediatrics Syracuse NY
Chino Valley Med. Ctr. Traditional Rotating Int. Chino CA
Geisinger Hlth System Emergency Medicine Danville PA
Loma Linda University Radiology-Diagnostic Loma Linda CA
Walter Reed Army Medical Center Internal Medicine Washington DC
Loma Linda University Medicine-Pediatrics Loma Linda CA
Kern Medical Center Obstetrics/Gynecology Bakersfield CA
Travis Air Force Base/David Grant Family Practice Travis AFB CA
Glendale Adventist Family Practice Glendale CA
Childrens Hospital Pediatrics Los Angeles CA

Malcolm Grow Family Practice Andrews AFB DC
Malcolm Grow Family Practice Andrews AFB DC
Kaiser Permanente Radiology-Diagnostic Los Angeles CA
Pacific Hospital - Long Beach Internal Medicine Long Beach CA
Christiana Care Medicine-Pediatrics Newark DE
U Southern California Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA
Allegheny General Hospital Psychiatry Pittsburgh PA
PCOM/Philadelphia Consortium Traditional Rotating Int. Philadelphia PA
U Southern California Psychiatry Los Angeles CA
U Southern California Pathology Los Angeles CA
NYCOM/Good Samaritan Hosp. & Med. Pediatrics West Islip NY
MWU-CCOM/AZ GME Consortium/Mesa Traditional Rotating Int. Mesa AZ
Loma Linda University Internal Medicine Loma Linda CA
White Mem Med Ctr Internal Medicine Los Angeles CA
Riverside Cty Reg Med Family Practice Moreno Valley CA
NYCOM/St. Barnabas Hospital Emergency Medicine Bronx NY

Adapt · Mar 21, 2004

---COMP 2003 Matchlist---
Family Practice PIH Family Practice Residency Whittier CA
Pediatrics Children's Hospital Los Angeles CA
AOA - Rotating Internship Chino Valley Medical Center 5451 Walnut Ave. #2 Baylor U Med Ctr., Dallas, TX Phys Med & Rehab Chino / #2 Dallas CA / #2 TX 91710
AOA - CMB: FP/ Family Practice Chino Valley MC 5451 Walnut Ave. Chino CA 91710
Family Practice San Joaquin General Hospital Stockton CA
Internal Medicine USC Los Angeles CA
AOA - CMB: T/Family Practice Arrowhead Regional Medical Center 400 N. Pepper Ave. Colton CA 92324
AOA - CMB: FP/Family Practice Chino Valley Medical Center 5451 Walnut Ave. Chino CA 91710
Family Practice PIH Family Practice Residency Whittier CA
Internal Medicine USC Los Angeles CA
Transitional Arrowhead Regional Medicine Center 400 N. Pepper Ave. Colton CA
AOA - CMB:T/General Surgery Genesys Health Systems One Genesys Parkway Grand Blanc MI 48439
Internal Medicine Loma Linda University Loma Linda CA
Internal Medicine USC CA
Psychiatry Martin Luther King Jr./Drew Los Angeles CA
Obstetrics-Gyn Albany Medical Center Albany NY

Family Practice Madigan Army Medical Center Military Match Army Tacoma WA
Pediatrics Naval Medical Center Military Match Navy San Diego CA
Medicine/ Preliminary #2 ER Cook County Hospital #2 - USC - ER #2 Los Angeles IL - #2 CA
Psychiatry Maricopa County Medical Center 2601 E. Roosevelt Dr. Phoenix AZ 85008-4973
Internal medicine White Memorial Los Angeles CA
VA Greater LA Health Systems #2 Phys Med & Rehab Los Angeles CA
AOA - INT: Rotating Internship /#2 Phy Med & Rehab Eastmoreland Hospital #2 Stanford University Programs Portland / #2 Stanford OR / #2 CA
Internal Medicine USC Los Angeles CA
Family Practice Kaiser Permanente Riversdie Riverside CA
Family Practice Scripps Memorial Hospital CA
CMB:FP/FAMILY PRACTICE CHINO VALLEY MEDICAL CENTER CHINO CA
Surgery - Preliminary Mayo Graduate SOM\ MN

OB/GYN UCLA Los Angeles CA
Pediatrics Kaiser Permanente - LA Los Angeles CA
AOA - INT: Rot Int/ #2 Phys Med & Rehab Pacific Hospital #2 UC Irivine Medical Ctr. Long Beach/ #2 Orange CA

Internal Medicine Loma Linda University Loma Linda CA
Psychiatry Cambridge Hospital/CHA-MA Cambridge MA

Family Practice UC Davis Medical Center - Sacramento Sacramento CA
OB/GYN Kern Medical Center CA

Family Practice U of Illinois COM -Rockford Rockford IL
Family Practice Exempla St. Joseph Hospital CO
INT: Rotating Int./ #2 Phys Med & Rehab Pacific Hospital #2 UC Davis Med Ctr Long Beach / #2 Sacramento CA
Family Medicine/Swedish Med U of Colorado SOM - Denver CO
Obstetrics/Gynecology Arrowhead Reg. Med. Ctr. 400 N. Pepper Ave. Colton CA
CMB: T/Family Medicine Downey Regional Medical Center Downey CA
INT: Traditional Rotating Internship Downey Regional Medical Center Downey CA
Transitional Year William Beaumont Army Medcal Center Military Match Army El Paso TX
AOA - CMB: Family Practice Eastmoreland Hospital Portland OR
General Surgery Martin Luther King JR.r./Drew Los Angeles CA
AOA - not matched
Family Practice USC Family Medicine Residency Prog. Los Angeles CA
AOA - INT: Rotating Internship/ #2 Anesthesiology Arrowhead Regional Medical Cente/ #2 USCr 400 N. Pepper St. Colton/ #2 Los Angeles CA
Pediatrics Military - Tripler Army Medical Center Military Match Army Tripler AMC HI
CMB: Family Practice Arrowhead Regional Medical Center 400 N. Pepper St. Colton CA
Internal Medicine University of Hawaii HI
2nd yr. spot at UNM - Neurology Albuquerque NM
AOA - CMB: Emergency Medicine Genesys Health Systems GRAND BLANC MI
Emergency Medicine TX Tech U Affiliated El Paso TX
Medicine-Pediatrics U of Missouri - Kansas City MO
AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP/2ND YR GENERAL SURGERY ARROWHEAD REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER COLTON CA
Pediatrics Loma Linda University Loma Linda CA
AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP UHSCOM/UNIVERSITY OF WYOMING CASPER WY
Family Practice White Memorial Med Center Los Angeles CA
AOA Family Practice Natividad Medical Center CA
AOA - NRMP NO MATCH
AOA - CMB: T/FAMILY PRACTICE DOCTORS' HOSPITAL MEDICAL CENTER - MONTCLAIR MONTCLAIR CA
Fmily Practice UC San Diego Med. Center CA
Psychiatry - UCLA/SFVP VA Greater LA Health Systems Los Angeles CA
Family Practice California Hospital Medical Center CA
Family Medicine/UCLS/Santa Monica UCLA Medical Center Santa Monica CA
Family Practice Pomona Valley Medical Center Pomona Valley CA
AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP ARROWHEAD REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER COLTON CA
Psychaitry Harbor - UCLA Medical Center CA
Family Practice Glendale Adventist CA
aoa - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP DOWNEY REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER DOWNEY CA
Family Practice Memorial Family Practice Residency TX
Family Practice Martin Army Community Hospital Military Match Army Ft. Benning GA
Internal Medicine U of Nevada - Reno RENO NV
Pediatrics UC San Francisco - Fresno Fresno CA
Family Practice UC San Francisco CA
Internal Medicine Loma Linda University Loma Linda CA
Internal Medicine Loma Linda University Loma Linda CA
AOA - CMB: T/NEUROLOGY MSUCOM/E W SPARROW HOSPITAL LANSING MI
Family Practice/ First Hill Swedish Medical Center WA
Psychiatry National Naval Medical Center Military Match Navy Bethesda MD
Emergency Medicine Maricopa Medical Center Phoenix AZ
AOA - CMB: T/FAMILY PRACTICE ARROWHEAD REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER COLTON CA
Family Practice Scripps Memorial Hospital CA
Family Practice Harbor-UCLA Medical Center CA
AOA - NOT MATCHED - NRMP Not Matched
Emergency Medicine Albert Einstein Medical Center PA
INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP ST. BARNABAS HOSPITAL BRONX NY
Family Practice UC Irvine Medical Center Orange CA
Family Practice UC Irvine Medical Center Orange CA
AOA - INT: TRAD. ROT. INTERNSHIP - NRMP aNESTHESIOLOGY #2 U of Tennessee COM BROOKLYN/ #2 Memphis NY / #2 TN
Pathology U of Texas Branch - Galveston Galveston TX
Internal Medicine Loma Linda Medical Center Loma Linda CA
PGY1 - #2 Physical Med. & Rehab #2 UNDNJ- RW Johnson -Piscataway #2 Piscataway #2 NJ

Medicine -Pediatrics Loma Linda University Loma Linda CA
Internal Medicine Loma Linda University Loma Linda CA
AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP MWU-AZCOM/KINGMAN REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER KINGMAN AZ
AOA- INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP LAKE MEAD HOSPITAL MEDICAL CENTER NORTH LAS VEGAS NV

AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP DOCTORS' HOSPITAL MEDICAL CENTER - MONTCLAIR mONTCLAIR CA

Transitional Kern Medical Center CA
Family Practice California Hospital Medical Center CA
AOA
AOA - CMB: EM/EMERGENCY MEDICINE OUCOM/DOCTORS' HOSPITAL - COLUMBUS COLUMBUS OH

AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP PACIFIC HOSPITAL LONG BEACH LONG BEACH CA
Family Practice UC Irivine Medical Center Irvine CA
OB/GYN Tulane University SOM LA
Family Practice Good Samaraitan Regional Medical Center AZ
Family Practice Northridge Hospital Medical Center CA
Family Practice Northridge Hosptial Medical Center CA
AOA - CMB: T/ FAMILY PRACTICE ARROWHEAD REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER COLTON CA
#2Radiology - Diagnostic #Tulane University SOM LA
#2 Anesthesiology #2 University of Chicago Hospital IL
AOA - INT: TRADITONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP DOCTORS' HOSPITAL OF MONTCLAIR MONTCLAIR CA
Transitional #2ER Kern Medical Center #2 USC CA
Internal Medical Kaiser Permantente-SF San Francisco CA
AOA - CMB: T/FAMILY PRACTICE DOWNEY REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER DOWNEY CA
Family Practice Naval Hospital Military Match Navy Camp Pendleton CA
AOA - CMB: EM:EMERGENCY MEDICINE ST. BARNABAS HOSPITAL BRONX NY
AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP DOCTORS HPOSPITAL MONTCLAIR MONTCLAIR CA
AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP PCOM/PHILADELPHIA CONSORTIUM PHILADELPHIA CA
Medicine - Preliminary UC San Francisco - Fresno Fresno CA
AOA - INT: TRADITIONAL ROTATING INTERNSHIP EASTMORELAND HOSPITAL PORTLAND OR
Family Practice /CHC Mercy Medical Center Redding CA
ER #2 Einstein/Jacobi Medical Center #2 NY
Internal Medicine White Memorial Medical Center LA CA
Family Practice Kaiser Permanente Riverside CA
aoa- CMB: T/fAMILY pRACTICE ARROWHEAD REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER COLTON CA
Family Practice Long Beach Memorial Medical Center Long Beach CA
Family Practice Sutter Medical Center Santa Rosa CA
Family Practice Riverside County Regional Medical Center Moreno Valley CA
Family Practice Memorial Hospital RI
Family Practice Long Beach Memorial Medical Center Long Beach CA
AOA
Psychiatry Loma Linda University SOM Loma Linda CA
Transitional Year William Beaumont Army Medical Center Military Match Army El Paso TX
AOA - CMB:EMEMERGENCY MEDICINE ST. BARNABAS hOSPITAL BRONX NY
Psychiatry Harbor - UCLA Medical Center Harbor City CA

Family Practice California Hospital Medical Center CA

AOA - CMB: T/FAMILY PRACTICE ARROWHEAD REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER COLTON CA
Family Practice Naval Hospital Military Match Navy Jacksonville FL

** Military Match
* AOA Match

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by aspiring
Hey Guys...This is a great discussion ...Here's an interesting statistic I found in 2004 USNEWS...% of Students entering Primary Care at:
AZCOM 65.0%
COMP 81.0%
However, this stat may only be mildly indicative of residency prospects in one's desired specialization...Would anyone be able to provide a clearer picture of 3rd year rotations at AZCOM....and discuss whether the out-of-state rotations can be conducted at major teaching hospitals, as is the case at COMP?...I hope I can decide by tomorrow...as my deposit is due....Thanks Everyone!

That percentage applies to a different class. Sure, there are some exceptional classes that specialize more than others. And the school doesn't direct students toward any particular field. I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. That was not my intended point. What I was trying to say was that the majority of students who matriculate at AZCOM tend to focus more on primary care than students of other DO schools. For whatever reason, AZCOM attracts a large percentage of primary care students. And this is detrimental when trying to specialize because we lack a large alumni that we can network with. Other schools like COMP will have established alumni in your field of interest that you can network with. We lack that. Our school isn't even 10 years old. And you can verity this by looking at our match lists for the past 4 years. So don't take my word for it or the others who suddenly "profess" that we put out many specialists. The proof is in the pudding.

http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/AZCOM/azcomDean.htm

To answer your question, yes you can rotate at teaching hospitals out of state. I will be doing that. But there is a catch. You are limited in that you can only do up to 6 rotations outside the appointed preceptor spots during your third year. That means you are still required to do 5 of your third year rotations in the appointed AZCOM preceptor spots. That's not the same as being able to do all of your rotations in a traditional teaching hospital like other schools can afford. And guess who sets up those rotations, YOU DO! And its not easy considering that don't have a large alumni network. You may be the first from your school to matriculate at a given teaching hospital, so you have to establish all that initial paperwork yourself. However, your 4th year is open to you as well. So you can pretty much do your entire 4th year out of state.

As far as AZCOM targeting specific ethnic and gender ratios, that is really a mute point. Both public and private schools prefer to add diversity to the class when possible. The Ivy League schools like Harvard, Yale etc. are all private schools and they all desire to increase the number of under represented minorities at their schools so I really don't know what San Juan Sun was trying to prove. Desiring minority students and attracting them are two different things. If a school historically lacks diversity in its classes, it develops a reputation for lacking diversity. Thus students from diverse backgrounds tend to avoid those schools. I'm sure the University of Utah would love to have more African American students but that doesn't mean that African American students will matriculate there.

Adapt · Mar 21, 2004

I saw the matchlists of AZCOM from your link. I would have to say they do a decent job of matching as well just as I thought. Interestingly though, most people match out of Arizona. In COMP, you'll get the majority matching in CA.

Again to the OP, where do you want to match at and eventually practice medicine. If in CA, then COMP is your choice. You also have to remember that you are an international student. It is difficult for international students to match into competitive specialities because they are not US citizens.

I remember someone said his cousin who was an international student graduated from Loma Linda and applied to about 40 opthamology programs for residency. She didn't get matched even with very competitive scores, and the reason was she was an international student.

Thus, you probably may have opportunities in primary care or some of the easier specialties. That is also something to think about. I myself don't think it's that fair if the person is a qualified student but that's the way it is.

governator · Mar 21, 2004

you could definitely do all your 3rd yr rotation in LA area as a COMP student. I'm doing most of my rotation at Arrowhead (SanBernardino county hospital) and riverside county hospital so the only preceptorship i did was for FP and OMM rotations.
The thing that piss me off about COMP is not so much the faculty/rotation (which is most important) but with the administration. Just remember that COMP is a private school and treating the school like a business and students are the source of income.
one more thing, for you out of stater (like me), pomona IS NOT los angeles, so don't be thinking you'll be at a big city environment (like i did) but they do have good mexican fast foods.

Adapt · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by governator
one more thing, for you out of stater (like me), pomona IS NOT los angeles, so don't be thinking you'll be at a big city environment (like i did) but they do have good mexican fast foods.

Yea I 'd have to agree. AZCOM has a nicer campus compared to COMP and you can't beat that nice on campus housing at AZCOM. Definitely, AZCOM has the advantage in that. It's only 2 years though. To me Pomona is not that much different from Riverside, so I'd be used to it. It's all in the 909.

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by governator
you could definitely do all your 3rd yr rotation in LA area as a COMP student. I'm doing most of my rotation at Arrowhead (SanBernardino county hospital) and riverside county hospital so the only preceptorship i did was for FP and OMM rotations.
The thing that piss me off about COMP is not so much the faculty/rotation (which is most important) but with the administration. Just remember that COMP is a private school and treating the school like a business and students are the source of income.
one more thing, for you out of stater (like me), pomona IS NOT los angeles, so don't be thinking you'll be at a big city environment (like i did) but they do have good mexican fast foods.

You think AZCOM isn't a business? The bottom line with AZCOM has always been about money which is why we increase our tuition by 3% every year. And its why our administration fails to acquire additional rotation sites and pays the President of our school nearly 500K. It's why AZCOM adds more programs every year like our Podiatry and Nurse Anethetists as opposed to re-investing their profits back into the DO school. It's why our school has been in existance since 1997 and we still lack a place on campus to eat despite having nearly 400 students on campus in all programs. Pretty much all private DO schools are businesses nut just AZCOM. As far as big city environment, Glendale is not Phoenix/Scottsdale. We are way up in the west side. Many people in the Phoenix metro haven't even been to the west side because it's so far removed from the rest of the city.

Adapt · Mar 21, 2004

You know AZCOMdiddy, you are the first person that I can remember on SDN to say negative things about AZCOM. I've seen COMP students say bad things about COMP but I've never seen AZCOM students do the same.

I have to say it is good to have the whole story of how things are. The way the other AZCOM students talk, it seems it's is a simply amazing school with no faults. However, your honest unbiased opinion is enlightening for all who really want to know the positives and the negatives.

I must admit that when people talk bad about COMP it makes me not want to listen but yet I know it is important to know the whole story of a school.

azcomdiddy · Mar 21, 2004

Originally posted by Slickness
You know AZCOMdiddy, you are the first person that I can remember on SDN to say negative things about AZCOM. I've seen COMP students say bad things about COMP but I've never seen AZCOM students do the same.

I have to say it is good to have the whole story of how things are. The way the other AZCOM students talk, it seems it's is a simply amazing school with no faults. However, your honest unbiased opinion is enlightening for all who really want to know the positives and the negatives.

I must admit that when people talk bad about COMP it makes me not want to listen but yet I know it is important to know the whole story of a school.

That's just it. Every school has its strengths and weaknesses. There is a lot I like about AZCOM. The strength of AZCOM is their first two years. The on-campus housing, stellar facilities and great teachers make the basic science years at AZCOM better than most DO schools. There are more students like me. They just don't post on SDN. You have a select group of AZCOMers on here that try to paint a picture perfect representation of the school. It's because our school is so new so our initial classes have a lot of pride and they try to compensate by trying to depict it in some flawless manner.

But our clerkships are a weakness. And the school does a good job of covering this up. I didn't know half the stuff I know now prior to matriculating. Most students are very ill informed of our rotations prior to matriculating at AZCOM. In fact, there are many first years that still have no idea how our rotations are set up. Post a question about AZCOM rotations and it usually gets ignored until a third year reads it. That's how ambiguous our clerkships are. If AZCOM's own students can't answer it, that is a bad sign.

I suppose it depends on the student as to which school would benefit him or her. I think you can have a much better time at AZCOM if you are pursuing primary care. There are so many of my classmates that go out on the weekdays and weekends since their basic science grades mean little to nothing in matching into their field. Most of these students focus less on grades and more on the boards. And thus they end up in their field of choice and usually at their hospital of choice in primary care. But if I knew that I wanted to specialize prior to starting school, I would definitely check out other schools because they will offer an alumni network and more structured rotations. Those two factors can impact one's chances of specializing.

VentdependenT · Mar 21, 2004

If you want to attain a competitive specialty then going to ANY DO school is going to hurt you right off the bat. We had a guy match allo urology this year....that is so f'n sweet. Smart kid, rotated hard, got great letters from the top uro guy at the NIH or something like that, and he got in. He never lost focus and he cared about his future enough to work hard at attaining it. Landing great spots is individual dependent NOT school dependent.

Going to COMP over AZCOM isn't going to mean jack squat to the PD's. Your rotations, boards, and LOR's are what will get your foot in the door. You need to do rotations with the big dogs and land yourself some great letters.

Third year is a bitch at AZCOM. No doubt about it. It is a do it yourself system and if don't actively participate in getting yourself the best rotations possible then you will suffer in the end. However, those folks who don't actively rotate hard and seek out strong clinical rotations probably don't care about going into something competitive. Folks who wan't competitve spots must work hard at getting strong rotations. As for the folks who expect to have stuff handed to them...well maybe they need a baby sitter...i dunno, and I don't care. It's their life and they can F'k it up however they want to. No one is going to look after you in the real world, so suck it up and go out there and take what is yours baby (hows that for some pep). I was bitter about all of this till fourth year. Then I was grinning from ear to ear.

Moving on. I busted my butt third year and rotated most of my cores out of state at teaching hospitals. I even petitioned to get 8/12 months out of state to be closer to home. Fourth year I rotated anywhere I wanted to and I can honestly say that I am being educated extremely well. I feel equal to anyone out there.

I'm matched and moving on. Sorry for the rambles but hope it all works out for all of you.

Venty

r90t · Mar 21, 2004

Most people leave AZ after medical school because there aren't a whole lot of choices for residencies there other than primary care and a hand of specialties.

If you are planning on living in CA after residency, definitely COMP. Start networking early for future positions. If you are unsure of what/where you want to be 8 years from now, AZCOM isn't a bad choice.

I thought AZCOM prepared us well for step 1 and 2 of the boards. Step 3 was a breeze and could have been taken in June after graduation, had it been allowed. I was more rusty as an intern taking it in December, than I would have been upon graduation.

Everybody complains about our clinical rotations, however, most do very well. I think people also presented themselves as well educated on audition rotations. We had very few people scrambling on match day that did allopathic programs. Most people got a program in the top 3 positions of their list.

The worst things that I can think of the school after being out for 1 1/2 years...my list would have been different in 02.

Tuition. Crazy expensive.
Clinical rotations were initially a shock, and seemed at the time to put us at a disadvantage, however, everyone did fine (hindsight).
Long 4th year, clinical hrs wise compared to other programs, but again, it prepared us well clinically speaking.
Basic science years were a bit thin, especially if you are thinking research.

Best things...
Staff that cared about the well-being of the students.
Student complaints were actually listened to.
Good board preparation and results.
Cost of living in Phoenix is very reasonable.
Good student body. Only a few gunners.
Spring Baseball and beer in the outfield.

YellowRose · Mar 26, 2004

I also griped a lot during the first 2 years at COMP because the administration sucks, but heck its over with, and i'm loving my rotations. i can't speak for my other classmates, but i am totally happy with my rotations. i did most of my rotations at the county facilities ( San bernardino/arrowhead and riverside counties), and thought i had a great rotation. I really felt i got a good balance of wards, clinics, and preceptorships. actually, only 2 of my rotations were preceptors (FP, OMM), and the others were at teaching hospitals. at county, i saw and got to do so much. off course, not all our rotations were at county, but you could easily do them at county if you wanted. You do rotate at the hospitals that our MD counterparts rotate at, but you don't necessarily rotate with them all the time. for instance at riverside county, the DO's rotate in the ob/gyn, peds, or ortho depts, while the loma linda students rotate in surgery and IM there. whereas at arrowhead, we both rotate at surgery, FP there together, but we only do ob/gyn and IM there. I think the future of rotations for COMP is getting better, as more and more socal hospitals are affiliating with our school, and future DO residencies are opening up.

it was also a definite plus to rotate at hospitals that have lots of COMP grads as residents, and coming across attendings that were COMP grads and they were doing well. It makes you think that despite the crap the admin puts you through, you'll make it out okay in the end. AZCOM, in a few years will also have many alumni doing well, but it'll take more time. also, being a mother of 2 and with a family, i wanted to stay in southern california for residency, so its nice that COMP is established down here, and many of the hospitals have taken COMP grads in their progams.

overall, it all depends on you, each school has its good/bad. for me, i had gripes the first 2 years but i'm enjoying the last 2. at azcom, some love the first 2 yrs, and don't seem to like the last 2. in the end, work hard, and make the best of your rotations. Learn as much as you can.

Adapt · Mar 26, 2004

Originally posted by YellowRose
I also griped a lot during the first 2 years at COMP because the administration sucks, but heck its over with, and i'm loving my rotations. i can't speak for my other classmates, but i am totally happy with my rotations. i did most of my rotations at the county facilities ( San bernardino/arrowhead and riverside counties), and thought i had a great rotation. I really felt i got a good balance of wards, clinics, and preceptorships. actually, only 2 of my rotations were preceptors (FP, OMM), and the others were at teaching hospitals. at county, i saw and got to do so much. off course, not all our rotations were at county, but you could easily do them at county if you wanted. You do rotate at the hospitals that our MD counterparts rotate at, but you don't necessarily rotate with them all the time. for instance at riverside county, the DO's rotate in the ob/gyn, peds, or ortho depts, while the loma linda students rotate in surgery and IM there. whereas at arrowhead, we both rotate at surgery, FP there together, but we only do ob/gyn and IM there. I think the future of rotations for COMP is getting better, as more and more socal hospitals are affiliating with our school, and future DO residencies are opening up.

it was also a definite plus to rotate at hospitals that have lots of COMP grads as residents, and coming across attendings that were COMP grads and they were doing well. It makes you think that despite the crap the admin puts you through, you'll make it out okay in the end. AZCOM, in a few years will also have many alumni doing well, but it'll take more time. also, being a mother of 2 and with a family, i wanted to stay in southern california for residency, so its nice that COMP is established down here, and many of the hospitals have taken COMP grads in their progams.

overall, it all depends on you, each school has its good/bad. for me, i had gripes the first 2 years but i'm enjoying the last 2. at azcom, some love the first 2 yrs, and don't seem to like the last 2. in the end, work hard, and make the best of your rotations. Learn as much as you can.

Nice post Yellow. That gave me insight into the last two years at COMP.

LeemerDO · Mar 26, 2004

Not a lot of people have talked about the students at COMP. COMP is a great place to make friends while learning about medicine. I'd probably describe it like a high school environment, all with various cliques and groups. We all more or less know each other and have worked with each other in group learning sessions, or in OMM. It's a nice environment with a good number of people willing to help each other with nores and recording lectures. Our attitude is generally optimistic, but on occasion, we have some bitter folk. Some people do develop anomosity towards certain individuals, but that is typically from the minority.

The only potential problems that may arise will most likely be issues with COMP administration. Usually it's the typical "COMP's raising tuition! Off with their heads!" kind of stuff, but then there are other issues like the proposed decision to cut out the Internet in the lecture halls during class. Let's put it this way, when you're sitting through certain lectures from certain professors, the internet can be your only saving grace aside from making up for lost sleep. Not a single student (Gunners may be the exception) supports this decision and more likely we would rather not go to class than sit through an unfavorable professor's lecture.

They're also toying with the idea of a DRESS CODE. :wow:

Shoot, all they need is to make mandatory attendance to ALL classes and I might as well have gone to LECOM. This is completely absurd and I believe that if this is a PROFESSIONAL GRADUATE SCHOOL, we should be treated at the very least as responsible adults. Then I recall some of the things a few of my classmates have done or complained about in the recent past, and I then realize why COMP ADMIN is even toying with such degrading juvenile tactics.
Another issue raised frequently is study space. Basically, we're competing with the College of Pharmacy students for these "Breakout Rooms." I personally think they can be a rude bunch because they are willing to pile in ten to a room, regardless if anyone is already there, and make a hell of a lot of noise at the same time. However, better in mind, this is pretty much a commuter school, so the issue of study space may be pointless for you if you prefer to study at home.

So I leave it up to you, prospective DOs, what do you want out of your medical school? Do you want to go there strictly for an education? Or is extracurricular student life just as important? How well have you gotten along with your college administration and their policies? Are you willing to abide by sometimes asinine rules and regulations? Good luck at wherever you go and remember to HAVE FUN! :hardy:

r90t · Mar 27, 2004

The AZCOM 3rd/4th year is also as productive as you make it. I finished #1 in our MD/DO transitional internship class and thought the year was pretty easy. I busted my butt during 3rd/4th year of med school to make sure I was prepared for internship.

Our worst intern, who eventually got booted from the program, was from a very good allopathic program in the Chicago area. Her 3rd and 4th year rotations were at all teaching hospitals. It didn't help her.

If you apply yourself correctly, you will do fine at either program. If you want a residency that is only offered in the MD community, I agree that being from a DO program hurts your chances of getting it, even if you are better qualified than other applicants.

kristing · Mar 27, 2004

Originally posted by azcomdiddy
What I was trying to say was that the majority of students who matriculate at AZCOM tend to focus more on primary care than students of other DO schools. For whatever reason, AZCOM attracts a large percentage of primary care students.

You throw this "fact" around in a lot of your posts. Where is your proof?

I am not denying it. I just have never seen you back up this "fact" and I want to see some proof if you are going to act as an expert on all things AZCOM.

San_Juan_Sun · Mar 27, 2004

Originally posted by kristing
You throw this "fact" around in a lot of your posts. Where is your proof?

You'll be waiting a while.

Diddy has a history of telling whoppers. Like telling me how much I paid for my house. Or telling people it takes 15 minutes to get to I-17 from AZCOM. I could go on and on....

r90t · Mar 27, 2004

While I was there from 1998-2002, the original mission statement of the school was to turn out primary care physicians. That was changed it ~2000 to turn out physicians. Our class majority was FP/IM/peds and this is likely due to the types of candidates they were looking for in 1997 interviews. I can't give you specific numbers off the top of my head. We had a core group that wanted to avoid FM/IM and they went into (approximate numbers) 2 PMR, 1 Radiology, 5 General Surgery, 2 Psychiatry, 2 pathology, 2 OB/Gyn,?? (more that a couple) anesthesia and radiation oncology (me). We had 2-3 people scrambling after match day and ended up in prelim internships.

Most (about 17 people) military scholarship guys did a transitional or general surgery first year.

You can't beat the cost of living there. I am getting ready to move to LA next summer and am dreading the thought of buying a house in So Cal, the traffic, etc..I'd choose Arrowhead Lakes in a minute, to relocate in, rather than LA. The school is on the outskirts of town and in 2002 the local newspaper stated that our zip code has the most # millionaires, by community. This isn't in the ghetto.

Pomona. The medical students/interns that I have worked with from there have been solid. I can't think of one negative thing to say about any of the them, either professionally or personally. They are people that I am happy to call friends. The campus looks odd from the outside, however, inside is fine. The students also have a "bar" on campus, if you don't know about it, ask a Pomona student. It's different, but my friends went there for post exam drinks.

bla_3x · Mar 27, 2004

From what I gather, there are several people in my class that ary care. I

azcomdiddy · Mar 27, 2004

Originally posted by kristing
You throw this "fact" around in a lot of your posts. Where is your proof?

I am not denying it. I just have never seen you back up this "fact" and I want to see some proof if you are going to act as an expert on all things AZCOM.

Perhaps you should read the entire thread more carefully. I provided the matchlists link for all 4 of our classes until now. They can look at the matchlists and decide for themselves. That is the best and most conclusive proof you can seek. You are familiar with a matchlist right? Besides, it is pointless to respond to this thread now. The OP stated a few posts ago that he or she was going to make a decision a week ago.

http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academic/AZCOM/azcomDean.htm

azcomdiddy · Mar 27, 2004

Originally posted by LeemerDO
Not a lot of people have talked about the students at COMP. COMP is a great place to make friends while learning about medicine. I'd probably describe it like a high school environment, all with various cliques and groups. We all more or less know each other and have worked with each other in group learning sessions, or in OMM. It's a nice environment with a good number of people willing to help each other with nores and recording lectures. Our attitude is generally optimistic, but on occasion, we have some bitter folk. Some people do develop anomosity towards certain individuals, but that is typically from the minority.

The only potential problems that may arise will most likely be issues with COMP administration. Usually it's the typical "COMP's raising tuition! Off with their heads!" kind of stuff, but then there are other issues like the proposed decision to cut out the Internet in the lecture halls during class. Let's put it this way, when you're sitting through certain lectures from certain professors, the internet can be your only saving grace aside from making up for lost sleep. Not a single student (Gunners may be the exception) supports this decision and more likely we would rather not go to class than sit through an unfavorable professor's lecture.
They're also toying with the idea of a DRESS CODE.
Shoot, all they need is to make mandatory attendance to ALL classes and I might as well have gone to LECOM. This is completely absurd and I believe that if this is a PROFESSIONAL GRADUATE SCHOOL, we should be treated at the very least as responsible adults. Then I recall some of the things a few of my classmates have done or complained about in the recent past, and I then realize why COMP ADMIN is even toying with such degrading juvenile tactics.
Another issue raised frequently is study space. Basically, we're competing with the College of Pharmacy students for these "Breakout Rooms." I personally think they can be a rude bunch because they are willing to pile in ten to a room, regardless if anyone is already there, and make a hell of a lot of noise at the same time. However, better in mind, this is pretty much a commuter school, so the issue of study space may be pointless for you if you prefer to study at home.

So I leave it up to you, prospective DOs, what do you want out of your medical school? Do you want to go there strictly for an education? Or is extracurricular student life just as important? How well have you gotten along with your college administration and their policies? Are you willing to abide by sometimes asinine rules and regulations? Good luck at wherever you go and remember to HAVE FUN!

What's odd is that our administration sounds a lot like COMP's except AZCOM students don't complain about it as much you guys. Well, at least the AZCOM students on SDN don't complain it which isn't exactly representative of the entire school. In addition, we don't have intenet access in the classrooms so we can't complain about it being taken away. At AZCOM, we don't have the luxury of the internet being at our hands during lecture.

Regarding lack of space, not only do we have a college of pharmacy, we have a college of physician assistant, occupational therapy, graduate programs, undergraduate programs, perfusion and now.......podiatry. So if you guys are worried about study space, think how we feel. In fact, most of our class doesn't study at the library at all. You will see some of us study on the second and third levels of the library but most of us study at home.

Regarding the city of Glendale, yeah, I can't really argue and suggest that Glendale is better or worse than Pomona. They are comparable. Arrowhead is wealthy but it's not expensive because the area has so much to offer and is in high demand. It's expensive because the retirement population of the Phoenix metropolitan area decided to settle down here once Sun City West became crowdedl. That's the reason why there are so many "millionaires" here. They don't live in extravagant homes or drive fancy cars. They are elderly couples who live in modest sized homes that have 1-2 million in the bank for their retirement. Technically, they qualify as millionaires but they don't live the millionaire life. Arrowhead isn't close to resembling Newport Beach or other areas with many millionaires. This isn't Pebble Beach like the city of Glendale would like you to believe. Glendale loves to publish the "millionaire" fact because for years it has been criticized by the other cities in the valley. Most of those millionaires only live in Phoenix during half the year anyway. They move back to Chicago or their original cities when it gets hot. That's why they are called snowbirds. .Arrowhead is essentially a retirement village with a ton of wealthy elderly. So while it may not be a ghetto, there is absolutely nothing to do in Glendale either. It's boring as hell. And it is in a remote corner of the city. You aren't living in Scottsdale. Also, if you go just a few miles south, you are approaching the ghetto. Yes, LA has traffic and smog but it still offers much than Phoenix as far as activities. Hence the reason why it more expensive to live there.

I'm from the valley (Phoenix) and I still have friends that have never been to Arrowhead or this part of Glendale because it is so far from the rest of Phoenix. They joke with me about it all the time. Whenever I meet them out, they are always saying: "So what's it like living all the way in Palm Springs" So while COMP students admit that living in Pomonoa is not like living in LA. The same can be said of AZCOM and Glendale. Arrowhead is not like living in "Phoenix". Be very aware of that. I'm not living the Phoenix life during my stay in Glendale. Of course, that's probably a good thing because it means there aren't any distractions either.

kristing · Mar 28, 2004

Originally posted by azcomdiddy
Perhaps you should read the entire thread more carefully. I provided the matchlists link for all 4 of our classes until now. They can look at the matchlists and decide for themselves. That is the best and most conclusive proof you can seek. You are familiar with a matchlist right? Besides, it is pointless to respond to this thread now. The OP stated a few posts ago that he or she was going to make a decision a week ago.

http://mwunet.midwestern.edu/academ... to see where the proof is in that statement.

azcomdiddy · Mar 28, 2004

Originally posted by Boomer
I would say that a school that:

a) requires three months of family medicine in your 3rd year
b) requires a rural rotation that, with very few exceptions, will be a 4th family med rotation
c) "strongly encourages your Internal Medicine rotation" to be ambulatory, i.e.-office medicine (at least, this was the quote from the previous dean of clin ed--may be different now)
and d) has an ambulatory based curriculum,

focuses strongly on primary care.

Yes, it's been argued ad nauseum that you can do some wiggling and get things done differently, but you are limited in elective time if you want to do Ortho, or Derm, or Uro, or Neurosurg.....and that can be a detriment.

Sorry but whatever you said is wrong because you didn't provide any proof to back up your statements. Yes, I know you attended AZCOM and whatever you said makes perfect and coherent sense. However, since you didn't provide proof we must ignore everything you just wrote.

jhug · Mar 29, 2004

So if you guys are worried about study space, think how we feel.

i've got to get this out....azdid, you say you're a second year...please,please tell your classmates that the "quiet study" area (aka old student lounge) is for quiet study. If they want to chat, they can go to the new student lounge with a pool table, ping-pong table, a tv....

bla_3x · Mar 29, 2004

It does get noisey in there sometimes

azcomdiddy · Mar 29, 2004

Originally posted by jhug
i've got to get this out....azdid, you say you're a second year...please,please tell your classmates that the "quiet study" area (aka old student lounge) is for quiet study. If they want to chat, they can go to the new student lounge with a pool table, ping-pong table, a tv....

The new student lounge isn't open 24 hours. They might have changed that in the past month or two but they close it past midnight I believe. The only thing open past midnight is the vendeteria. Gotta love that name. It almost sounds royal. It would be better if they called it what it was: "The snack room" For those of you who are wondering what I'm talking about, there is a snack room that has vending machines. THere is enough space for tables. They leave that room open past midnight. They actually installed some cubicles in there. It's not a bad room actually. Sure, it's congested as hell but it is quiet and it's 24 hours. I study there sometimes.

jhug · Mar 29, 2004

there's supposed to me an email about this...the big room will close at 1am and study groups can go over to the "snack room" after that time. And i think before 3pm you can eat/chat in there...but from 3pm to 1am it is an extention of the library.

kristing · Mar 29, 2004

Originally posted by Boomer
I would say that a school that:

a) requires three months of family medicine in your 3rd year
b) requires a rural rotation that, with very few exceptions, will be a 4th family med rotation
c) "strongly encourages your Internal Medicine rotation" to be ambulatory, i.e.-office medicine (at least, this was the quote from the previous dean of clin ed--may be different now)
and d) has an ambulatory based curriculum,

focuses strongly on primary care.

Yes, it's been argued ad nauseum that you can do some wiggling and get things done differently, but you are limited in elective time if you want to do Ortho, or Derm, or Uro, or Neurosurg.....and that can be a detriment.

This first point is valid. We do have to do 3 months of FP which is more than other DO schools, from the 3rd years from UHS, Kirksville, and Touro, that I've come in contact with.

Do other schools require a rural rotation? I don't know. So we can't say if that is a unique feature of AZCOM until we prove otherwise.

Our school is ambulatory based, so of course they are going to encourage us to do an ambulatory IM rotation. That doesn't surprise me.

I think AZCOMDIDDY is actually being a tad sarcastic, since I expected him to provide proof in a previous post, he isn't flaming you.

But what I would like to elucidate here and in any discussion about AZCOM where we say we are so "blah blah" compared to other schools is that we actually are so "blah blah" vs the other schools. I think we see ourselves as unique in certain situations where we aren't necessarily all that unique.

AZCOMDIDDY's quote "What I was trying to say was that the majority of students who matriculate at AZCOM tend to focus more on primary care than students of other DO schools. For whatever reason, AZCOM attracts a large percentage of primary care students" just isn't validated. Do we attract more Primary care oriented students vs other DO schools? I don't know for sure, and it's not a valid argument without us seeing the actual comparison between us and other DO schools.

I also am curious as to what other schools offer in terms of elective rotations outside of primary care. I know we are only allowed 2 in the subspecialties and others (like anesthesia) you mentioned, but how does that compare to other schools?

I don't disagree with Boomer's statement that our school "focuses strongly on primary care." I just don't buy that it emphasizes it MORE than other DO schools. Nor do I buy that we attract more people interested in primary care than the other schools.

azcomdiddy · Mar 30, 2004

Nor do I buy that we attract more people interested in primary care than the other schools. [/B]

And why don't you buy that? Is it because you have evidence to the contrary? What are you basing your opinion on? If you have evidence, please present it to us? If not, simply admit that you don't believe it because you don't want to. It has nothing to do with evidence. It's just that when you don't believe something, you suddenly want evidenct to back that up. But I doubt you would ask for proof if someone said that AZCOM was one of the top 5 schools in regards to graduating osteopathic specialists. I'm sure you would nod your head and say "Cool".

My initial point wasn't that AZCOM intends to recruit students focused on primary care. However, I do think students who seek primary care do matriculate at AZCOM in higher proportion to students of many osteopathic schools. I have examined the match list of other schools like COMP, NYCOM and TUCOM for examples and that seems to stand up.

Perhaps you should examine those match lists before you decide whether this is or isn't true rather than just guessing. However, please understand that I'm not going to post every schools matchlist and count one by one on which school graduated more students going into residencies so don't ask.

Globus P · Mar 30, 2004

I believe arguing this point either direction is ludicrious. How many fellow students know what specialty they want to go into before matriculating? Very few. And of those so sure, how many change their minds at some point over the 4 years of school?

I really don't think most students choose AZCOM b/c they wanted to go primary care. They would have pursued primary care regardless of what school they went to. They wanted to go to med school and were accepted to AZCOM and just happen to want to go pri care. Two separate decisions/goals.

As for me, and most of my fellow students I've talked with, I don't know what specialty I want to go into and I sure don't feel pressured to pursue primary care by AZCOM.

AZCOMDIDDY, you are definitely a "the glass is half empty" type of person.

azcomdiddy · Mar 30, 2004

Originally posted by ToddE
I believe arguing this point either direction is ludicrious. How many fellow students know what specialty they want to go into before matriculating? Very few. And of those so sure, how many change their minds at some point over the 4 years of school?

I really don't think most students choose AZCOM b/c they wanted to go primary care. They would have pursued primary care regardless of what school they went to. They wanted to go to med school and were accepted to AZCOM and just happen to want to go pri care. Two separate decisions/goals.

As for me, and most of my fellow students I've talked with, I don't know what specialty I want to go into and I sure don't feel pressured to pursue primary care by AZCOM.

AZCOMDIDDY, you are definitely a "the glass is half empty" type of person.

Likely response. We are finally getting down to the details of our rotation opportunities. AZCOM students like Boomer are presenting concrete details regarding our rotation opportunities and some student chimes in and tries to gloss everything over.

The point is to provide information in a responsible manner so that students can make informed choices. You can't reassure an applicant's fears about our clerkships and then fail to provide concrete evidence showing them how it will be okay.

It's sad to see so many AZCOM students mislead applicants. The truth is if you want to do hospital based rotations during your third year at AZCOM, you wil have to go out of state. Why is that so hard to admit? It's amazing how difficult it is for some of our students to come right out and say this.

I haven't denied the flipside. Many of our students have done well matching for fields outside of primary care. It can be done obviously. I plan on pursuing a on non-primary care field. It's just if you wish to specialize, there are better DO schools that can make your life much easier provided that you have been accepted to these schools like OSU-Com, MSU-Com, Kirksville, PCOM and NYCOM to list a few. AZCOM's clerkship requirements and affiliated sites makes it more challenging for those of us who want to pursue specialized fields. That doesn't mean we haven't matched these fields. But nearly everyone I have spoken who has achieved this admits it was pain in the a$$.

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