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[Glammyre]

##Lynch animal midwife##

Looking back (pages 8-10) genny was first to jump onto the Lynch of stl with me, and animal midwife was very defensive of him. Filly Bay was also raising flags, and my 3rd suspicion is actually LIS who in a very subtle way was trying to cast doubt from stl to me.

I just went back and read 8-11. I agree that AM was acting defensive. Actually, from checking her posts, I think most of her strategy posts were about not lynching STL. Right now, I don't see Filly Bay, but I can see LIS. My other suspects from that day are Teep and DVMD. Teep was the first to weigh in against an STL lynch, although that was done mildly and with the possibility of backtracking. On page 11, DVMD voted for STL (and, in later pages, didn't unlynch until the seer role claim), but seemed more willing than others to back down in response to LIS's defense.

With all that being said, counting who didn't want to lynch STL (and how strongly they argued) isn't as good of a measure as I'd hoped. I'd rate WTF's defense (page 11) pre-STL's claim as one of the stronger ones.

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[Glammyre]

For now, lynch @Animal Midwife for the STL defense, for not putting up any kind of lynch vote yesterday, and with the hope that another lynch vote will help you start talking . Right now, with as few (and as short) as your posts have been, it's hard for me to read villager or wolf intent in your posts beyond the points I made above. I could see you possibly trying for under-the radar wolf.

 

[dyachei]

Official lynch tally:
teep 5 (dvmd, meathead, SOV, am, rocky)
lotf 3 (LIS, AB, bbc)
kaydubs 1 (lotf)
AM 2 (rojo, zen)

11/24 votes
5/24 minimums met

MOD NOTE: SoV will be taking over for RM

 

[DVMDream]

If it gets to the point we want certain people to be protected you can request that of the protector without knowing who they are

Doing this just allows the wolves to know who not to target. Probably not a good move for villagers.

 

[DVMDream]

I also think the three votes that piled on teep after the initial vote seems a little odd. Was there any reason for the suspicion other than the comment about the protector taking the night off? Which I just took as a joke.

My personal reason for voting teep was the awkward way of him (her?) attempting to cast suspicion onto rojo.

 

[DVMDream]

So that would be Lynch Kaydubs

I'm confused by this lynch tbh... you claim it is because you are lynching someone who listed out common basic villager roles but didn't mention any wolf roles. However, you took their post out of context. No one brought up or asked about basic/common wolf abilities until today. Previously many of us, myself included, were discussing what roles would be important for wolves to remove as well as what villager roles we thought might exist.

So I am more suspicious of your reasoning behind this vote to be honest.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

With all that being said, counting who didn't want to lynch STL (and how strongly they argued) isn't as good of a measure as I'd hoped. I'd rate WTF's defense (page 11) pre-STL's claim as one of the stronger ones.

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[DVMDream]

Looking at Dy's championship game - maybe we have a wolf strongman?
"The Strongman modifier makes killing actions cut through all roleblocking and protection, including factional kills."

Maybe that's why STL claimed they knew the protector and would block them. He figured once the protector's action failed they would assume the wolves knew who they were and would out themselves on the thread?

There's a few others like jailkeeper (prevents any action good or bad on a player), ninja (can't be seered/tracked) and a few others.

Hmm, this is an interesting point and a good find.

We have never had one of those in a ww game here before and considering this is a "basics" game I am learning towards the not present.

However, I could also see dy implementing this or even other things from that game at some point, whether in this game or in a future game.

Good catch, definitely not discounting this as a possibility, just more of an unsure if present or not.

 

[DVMDream]

I think my issue is that some metagame playing is useful and strategic (knowing someone's play style is off, for example). Others I think are not in the spirit of the game and demonstrate poor sportsmanship, like going onto someone's SDN profile to see if they're PMing at night (i.e. a possible wolf) or checking their facebook to see if they're going to be out of town so you can take advantage of that.

I guess I just think some things rely on at least some level of strategy and critical thinking, while others don't, and I don't know what other people's thresholds are for that.

If I had a dollar for every time a veteran yelled at the noobs during the noob games to quit looking at what people were last seen doing on SDN, I could have many, many dollars.... In general, we don't tolerate that BS, because many times it ends in the death of an important player.

 

[DVMDream]

Everyone ignoring my feels? It's ok, I'll just be quiet over here

Aww, poor little rojo, being ignored.... *pat, pat*

 

[1doggeek]

***lynch AM*** for now. Reread everything again, and I agree with some suspicions. I haven't played with AM enough to know if it's "normal" play for them.

 

[dyachei]

Official lynch tally:
teep 5 (dvmd, meathead, SOV, am, rocky)
lotf 3 (LIS, AB, bbc)
kaydubs 1 (lotf)
AM 3 (rojo, zen, 1dog)

12/24 votes
5/24 minimums met

MOD NOTE: SoV will be taking over for RM

 

[DVMDream]

After reading back through, I agree more with the suspicions on AM and LoTF....

Unlynch Teep

Going to read back through with that STL thing too and see if either one of them jumps out more to me than the other.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

I'm confused by this lynch tbh... you claim it is because you are lynching someone who listed out common basic villager roles but didn't mention any wolf roles. However, you took their post out of context. No one brought up or asked about basic/common wolf abilities until today. Previously many of us, myself included, were discussing what roles would be important for wolves to remove as well as what villager roles we thought might exist.

So I am more suspicious of your reasoning behind this vote to be honest.

Fair. I was remembering it as:
"What roles should be in the game?"
(A few people list off a couple each, mainly repeating each other to boost post count)
Somebody then came on and posts a very helpful tiered chart of roles, but it only included villager roles.
I do recall around then the debate began about who wolves should/would go after and thinking this is how wolves who can't talk yet would strategize... but my memory is faulty and I have yet to reread. In the context of lynching me, it was relevant.

 

[dyachei]

Official lynch tally:
teep 4 (meathead, SOV, am, rocky)
lotf 3 (LIS, AB, bbc)
kaydubs 1 (lotf)
AM 3 (rojo, zen, 1dog)

11/24 votes
6/24 minimums met

MOD NOTE: SoV will be taking over for RM

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

I hear the logic behind the AM lynch and both because of that and some self preservation:
Unlynch KW
Lynch AM

 

[dyachei]

Official lynch tally:
teep 4 (meathead, SOV, am, rocky)
lotf 3 (LIS, AB, bbc)
AM 4 (rojo, zen, 1dog, lotf)

11/24 votes
6/24 minimums met

MOD NOTE: SoV will be taking over for RM

 

[DVMDream]

Hmm... I could make it a 3-way tie right now!

But definitely won't do that... I will break the tie.

Still reading back through the STL lynch thing, but it seems AM actively voiced against lynching STL while LoTF really ignored the STL lynch and didn't make comment on it, just voted for a random.

So.. Lynch AM

 

[guisantes]

Sorry for disappearing. I went to a concert (love me some AWOLNATION) and just caught up. And I was really alarmed for a minute because I was like "omg I argued with LIS and don't remember it?"

I tried to look back at the earlier pages, and I'm honestly not getting many feels for teep. I get what people are saying about him, but I'm more suspicious of others at the moment.

I had slight feels for LotF as I read through what was posted today, but her explanation is sufficient in my opinion for the time being.

I want to hear more from AM. I will admit that I wasn't totally feeling the STL lynch on D1 (I just wasn't necessarily associating "has a role" with "is a wolf"), and I did buy his claim as the village seer (hence me saying it was better to lynch me than him after I became a vote leader). But I certainly didn't feel the need to adamantly defend him. I guess I'm saying I can partially understand her actions if she just really believed he was the village seer, but it is coming off as sketchy at the moment. So, to put some pressure on her to explain,

Lynch AM

 

[genny]

lynch teep

i may talk myself out of it overnight.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I can support the AM lynch. Her comments were before the first night, so she wouldn't have heard any strategy or have been given any advice about how to vote or not vote when a fellow wolf is being lynched.

On that reasoning

Lynch AM

 

[genny]

With all that being said, counting who didn't want to lynch STL (and how strongly they argued) isn't as good of a measure as I'd hoped. I'd rate WTF's defense (page 11) pre-STL's claim as one of the stronger ones.

I think this is kind of important. And it's part of why I'm not so sure about the AM lynch.

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

I can support the AM lynch. Her comments were before the first night, so she wouldn't have heard any strategy or have been given any advice about how to vote or not vote when a fellow wolf is being lynched.

On that reasoning

Lynch AM

This is a good point, I'm about to go back and read both her and LoTF's posts from D1/D2 and see if I agree with what is being inferred from them

 

[vetmedhead]

This is a good point, I'm about to go back and read both her and LoTF's posts from D1/D2 and see if I agree with what is being inferred from them

LOTF (as stated on thread) has been a wolf before in other games and also has played (a few) more WW games than AM, so I am inclined to think that we would be more likely to see noob wolf mistakes from AM than from LOTF, though we could definitely see noob wolf mistakes from both.

Lynch AM, though I am still very suspicious of Teep.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Just landed from a gorgeous night flight to Lancaster and back.. so not following too well right now.

One point I have been dying to make though:
STL seemed pretty sure of himself that they were going to be able to kill WTF, so I think he wanted to make that point for a reason. He also talked about blocking the protector to the end of the game.

I have a theory that this could happen because roles were assigned independently of wolf/villager affiliation and the wolves lucked out and got the protector role. STL would then be trying to give a reason why they keep the protector... a wolf... alive.

Not going to be able to substantiate that, but something to think about.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Also, strategy wise... you have to read what people write more carefully.

When STL wrote that he was an "affiliation seer", I knew 100% he was a wolf. That is a particular term that has only recently come into use, and would 1) not likely be used by Dyachei, but more importantly, 2) would have no meaning in a game where there so few roles and there would just be a simple seer. That is the kind of slip up we should be focusing on.

 

[vetmedhead]

Just landed from a gorgeous night flight to Lancaster and back.. so not following too well right now.

One point I have been dying to make though:
STL seemed pretty sure of himself that they were going to be able to kill WTF, so I think he wanted to make that point for a reason. He also talked about blocking the protector to the end of the game.

I have a theory that this could happen because roles were assigned independently of wolf/villager affiliation and the wolves lucked out and got the protector role. STL would then be trying to give a reason why they keep the protector... a wolf... alive.

Not going to be able to substantiate that, but something to think about.

This is a super interesting theory and I like it because it would force us as players to try harder to suss out wolves/villagers because we would have to rely more heavily on feels/critical thinking, because even being told the role may not tell us anything about affiliation.

On the other hand, this theory would also mean that the wolves would have a protector, which me no likey.

It also makes me wonder why there would be both a villager and a wolf seer, as (if randomly assigned to players) I think it would be much more likely villagers would have just been RNGd two seers instead.

 

[StartingoverVet]

So I went back and re-read day 1, and saw this post from 1dog responding to STL with agreement:


The "wording things specifically" language threw up a red flag for me.

And then there's this post, in response to a vote against STL on day 1 that also mentioned hayley and guis:

It seems to me like 1dog was trying to sway votes away from STL.

A lot of Teep's posts also gave me feels though.

And I think the wolf kill of Sandy makes a lot of sense, given that STL's early posting got him accused of being role-y and Sandy also posted early, so maybe the wolves thought they'd get themselves a villager with a role. So killing Sandy on N1 wasn't even on my radar as to why I might be suspicious of Teep. I feel like this part of Teep's post is just protesting too much.

This seemed like a good analysis on 1dog to me. The needing to be careful sounds like a noob-wolf kind of comment, sure it "might" be noob villager, but would much more apply to a wolf.

unlynch whomever RM was lynching.
lynch 1dog.

 

[StartingoverVet]

This is a super interesting theory and I like it because it would force us as players to try harder to suss out wolves/villagers because we would have to rely more heavily on feels/critical thinking, because even being told the role may not tell us anything about affiliation.

On the other hand, this theory would also mean that the wolves would have a protector, which me no likey.

It also makes me wonder why there would be both a villager and a wolf seer, as (if randomly assigned to players) I think it would be much more likely villagers would have just been RNGd two seers instead.

why do you think there was actually a wolf seer. Most likely STL just was talking out his butt.
I doubt he was a seer at all.

 

[StartingoverVet]

why do you think there was actually a wolf seer. Most likely STL just was talking out his butt.
I doubt he was a seer at all.

scratch that.
Dyachei said he was a seer.

 

[StartingoverVet]

This is a super interesting theory and I like it because it would force us as players to try harder to suss out wolves/villagers because we would have to rely more heavily on feels/critical thinking, because even being told the role may not tell us anything about affiliation.

On the other hand, this theory would also mean that the wolves would have a protector, which me no likey.

It also makes me wonder why there would be both a villager and a wolf seer, as (if randomly assigned to players) I think it would be much more likely villagers would have just been RNGd two seers instead.

could be mod license. he was a wolf, he was a seer, so wolf seer, but I agree it is less likely.

 

[StartingoverVet]

One last note and then I have to go to sleep....

Something LIS said made me suspicious of him, but I can't remember what. I am reluctant to act on it just yet, because I am always biased to be suspicious of him it seems. If I can find it I will point it out and let y'all decide. It was a stylistic thing about how glib he was playing. Just seemed like he had too much of a devil may care attitude. Or maybe he is just happier these days away from vet school, and I don't recognize him anymore.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I think this is kind of important. And it's part of why I'm not so sure about the AM lynch.

But if you look at all of their posts, I still think the votes for AM make sense, where WTF wouldn't be nearly as suspicious. AM has posted so little and mostly in defense of STL, while WTF immediately was suspicious of his role reveal (which of course she would be). While sometimes looking at only one or two posts is enough to support or defend someone, I don't think we should use WTF's earlier posts as a way to rationalize AM's as not sketchy.

 

[thedrjojo]

Sorry for disappearing. I went to a concert (love me some AWOLNATION) and just caught up. And I was really alarmed for a minute because I was like "omg I argued with LIS and don't remember it?"

I tried to look back at the earlier pages, and I'm honestly not getting many feels for teep. I get what people are saying about him, but I'm more suspicious of others at the moment.

I had slight feels for LotF as I read through what was posted today, but her explanation is sufficient in my opinion for the time being.

I want to hear more from AM. I will admit that I wasn't totally feeling the STL lynch on D1 (I just wasn't necessarily associating "has a role" with "is a wolf"), and I did buy his claim as the village seer (hence me saying it was better to lynch me than him after I became a vote leader). But I certainly didn't feel the need to adamantly defend him. I guess I'm saying I can partially understand her actions if she just really believed he was the village seer, but it is coming off as sketchy at the moment. So, to put some pressure on her to explain,

Lynch AM

yeah, AM's defense of STL came before they revealed and before people tried to claim to vote for him because he had a role (which was a stupid reason for people to want to lynch him, and if you read my reasoning behind lynching him I didn't realize or care he made some sort of role claim before coming out as the affiliation seer)...

 

[morninqlory]

What would a protector do for the wolves? Protect them from being seered or something? I guess they could be protected from being lynched if that was in this game but then they'd have protected their seer I'd think. Or would it just be that they'd have the protector and villagers didn't so they'd have the comfort of knowing none of the villagers are protected when they attempt a kill?

 

[morninqlory]

Also, could there be more than one protector? Like a wolf one and a village one like there was with seers.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Also, could there be more than one protector? Like a wolf one and a village one like there was with seers.

I'd think not, but it's always possible.

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

This is more a note for the future, but if AM is lynched and turns up wolfy I would definitely be willing to be less suspicious of Teep. Yes it was the bandwagon lynch at the beginning, but she definitely tried to throw some suspicion over that way fairly early

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

What if his role is similar to a seer? It could be bad to lynch that role.

This statement sounds weird to me. Any role similar to a seer is a seer. If she was aware of STL's role (would the wolves be told the roles of the other ones before they are able to communicate?) this is a very roundabout way of planting the seed but trying not to state obviously in order to draw attention.

This just seems like something I would do if I had the same intentions of discreetly defending someone.

I could just be significantly over-analyzing as well.

 

[thedrjojo]

Why is STL considered suspicious at this point? I haven't noticed anything wolfy about his posts?

this came after my post of lynching him where I explain my reason and 2 other people follow suit for my reason

What if his role is similar to a seer? It could be bad to lynch that role.

this was after rockateil posted he was being lynched for sounding "roley"...

these were the two major flags from AM... i was mistaken though, some of the defense did come after rocky mentioned the role thing.

BBC is also on my suspect list, but probably below AM, FB, and LIS...

Huh.

I mean, STL could be a wolf. But..... If he slipped up like that it would be an odd/stupid mistake for a veteran player. Not that veterans can't make mistakes, but......

The voting pattern makes me a bit suspicious of Rojo. As a wolf, he would very much be thrilled at the chance to take STL off the board early in the game in a situation where he had great plausible deniability. And I feel like as a villager he would be a little more reluctant to lynch STL for the reasons people seem to be giving.

Dunno. It isn't sitting right with me.

this lis post is fueling my suspicion of LIS.

Can't pinpoint my FB post, but still stand by my suspicion!

 

[dyachei]

Official lynch tally:
teep 3 (meathead, am, rockygenny)
lotf 3 (LIS, AB, bbc)
AM 7 (rojo, zen, 1dog, lotf, dvmd, guis, pbc)
1dog 1 (SOV)

14/24 votes
8/24 minimums met

MOD NOTE: SoV will be taking over for RM
@vetmedhead please unlynch before lynching a new target or i won't count it.

 

[thedrjojo]

Just landed from a gorgeous night flight to Lancaster and back.. so not following too well right now.

One point I have been dying to make though:
STL seemed pretty sure of himself that they were going to be able to kill WTF, so I think he wanted to make that point for a reason. He also talked about blocking the protector to the end of the game.

I have a theory that this could happen because roles were assigned independently of wolf/villager affiliation and the wolves lucked out and got the protector role. STL would then be trying to give a reason why they keep the protector... a wolf... alive.

Not going to be able to substantiate that, but something to think about.

I would find it hard to believe Dy would make the protector a wolf in this game. I like the strongman or blocking the protector argument.

 

[thedrjojo]

Also, strategy wise... you have to read what people write more carefully.

When STL wrote that he was an "affiliation seer", I knew 100% he was a wolf. That is a particular term that has only recently come into use, and would 1) not likely be used by Dyachei, but more importantly, 2) would have no meaning in a game where there so few roles and there would just be a simple seer. That is the kind of slip up we should be focusing on.

eh, i'm sure you weren't 100% sure, and if in the game would have switched off of him for the lynch. View must have been nice from the skies though, now lets see your wolf hunting in action. I think there would have been enough plausibility in an affiliation seer...

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

After what I have read I am feeling way more confident in this suspicion.
Unlynch LoTF, lynch AM

 

[thedrjojo]

One last note and then I have to go to sleep....

Something LIS said made me suspicious of him, but I can't remember what. I am reluctant to act on it just yet, because I am always biased to be suspicious of him it seems. If I can find it I will point it out and let y'all decide. It was a stylistic thing about how glib he was playing. Just seemed like he had too much of a devil may care attitude. Or maybe he is just happier these days away from vet school, and I don't recognize him anymore.

was it that him and dvmd were agreeing with each other?

 

[dyachei]

Official lynch tally:
teep 3 (meathead, am, rockygenny)
lotf (LIS, AB)
AM 8 (rojo, zen, 1dog, lotf, dvmd, guis, pbc, bbc)
1dog 1 (SOV)

14/24 votes
8/24 minimums met

MOD NOTE: SoV will be taking over for RM

YOU ARE 5 VOTES AWAY FROM MAJORITY/PLURALITY

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

part of me feels bad for lynching someone who isn't here to defend him/herself. As a new player, I can see why AM might have been overzealous in defending someone they thought was an important role.

For now, I might believe lotf, but I'm also suspicious of 1dog and teep

unlynch lotf
lynch teep

 

[vetmedhead]

Official lynch tally:
teep 3 (meathead, am, rockygenny)
lotf 3 (LIS, AB, bbc)
AM 7 (rojo, zen, 1dog, lotf, dvmd, guis, pbc)
1dog 1 (SOV)

14/24 votes
8/24 minimums met

MOD NOTE: SoV will be taking over for RM
@vetmedhead please unlynch before lynching a new target or i won't count it.

Whoops, knew I was forgetting something!

Unlynch teep, lynch AM.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

this came after my post of lynching him where I explain my reason and 2 other people follow suit for my reason


this was after rockateil posted he was being lynched for sounding "roley"...

these were the two major flags from AM... i was mistaken though, some of the defense did come after rocky mentioned the role thing.

BBC is also on my suspect list, but probably below AM, FB, and LIS...


this lis post is fueling my suspicion of LIS.

Can't pinpoint my FB post, but still stand by my suspicion!

Same with the LIS post. It set off small bells... but I've been waiting to see any follow ups that really set them ringing. There have been a couple tickles, but nothing of real substance that I could point to and say there, that's the one. But I think I often get that from the three some of you, LIS and DVMD.

 

[morninqlory]

Just finished rereading day 1. AM does sound suspicious. I'm good with

***lynch Animal Midwife***