Bad SLOE

[JuliaJulia]

It looks like I will be receiving a SLOE that will hurt my application. Are there any ways around covering this up (ie - not assigning this letter to residency programs?) There won't be any red flags on it but it will definitely be the weakest part of my application.

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[kmb1908]

Why do you think that you'll be receiving a bad SLOE from this rotation?

 

[BoardingDoc]

It looks like I will be receiving a SLOE that will hurt my application. Are there any ways around covering this up (ie - not assigning this letter to residency programs?) There won't be any red flags on it but it will definitely be the weakest part of my application.

Yeah. Don't assign it to any programs. As long as you have another SLOE to use in its place it doesn't matter.

 

[DeadCactus]

They may notice that you rotated somewhere and didn't submit a letter from that place, raising the question of why with poor evaluation as the most likely answer. They may also contact that place for feedback. Still better to not drop a bad review of yourself into their lap...

 

[JuliaJulia]

There's just one person that has made it clear that he doesn't like me. Unfortunately, he's the clerkship director who will be filling out my SLOE. It's supposed to be a collaborate (and I've received awesome reviews from other attendings) but I'm worried because he's the one actually doing it.

Is there any way I can get someone else to fill out my SLOE? Or can I get another SLOE from a different attending? Or should I get a recommendation letter from another attending and not use my SLOE?

Thanks

 

[deleted547339]

There's just one person that has made it clear that he doesn't like me. Unfortunately, he's the clerkship director who will be filling out my SLOE. It's supposed to be a collaborate (and I've received awesome reviews from other attendings) but I'm worried because he's the one actually doing it.

Is there any way I can get someone else to fill out my SLOE? Or can I get another SLOE from a different attending? Or should I get a recommendation letter from another attending and not use my SLOE?

Thanks

What did you do for the clerkship directory to "make it clear" that he doesn't like you? Seems fairly unprofessional for the med stud director to do that...

 

[dotcb]

If you have the option of using other SLOE's, then don't use that one and chalk it up to a lost month of 4th year. If it's your home institution, you're in trouble, as you should generally include that one in your application and it's a bit of a red flag not to include EM rotation at home institution. If it is terrible though and you have others, I would not. Your application ideally should have 2 SLOE's, although one would be okay if you don't have other options. You won't be able to get another SLOE from that rotation though, as generally the clerkship director is the only faculty member who does SLOE's at each institution. Our faculty are instructed to not complete SLOE's if approached by students. It's the clerkship director's job.

 

[DreamingTheLive]

Unless he explicitly said "I don't like you" I think you'll end up coming out OK based on the "rave reviews" you said you've received from other attendings. I believe the SLOR is generally a composite of sorts and if I'm not mistaken will include comments/input from various attendings from a rotation. At least that's how my 3 SLORs were as I had various comments from attendings read out-loud to me during several of my interviews.

Might just be in your head. Keep working hard, rock-out your next EM rotation (I'm of the opinion that if you're a "star" that you should STRONGLY consider doing at least one away, minimum) and make sure the rest of your application, etc. is rock solid.

Good luck!

 

[diphenyl]

Writing anybody a "bad" SLOR is completely unprofessional. If there was a student or colleague I didn't like or trust, I simply would just say I didn't feel comfortable writing a letter. A bad letter is very rare and speaks more to the unprofessionalism of the writer. I do know some malignant people will write a very mediocre letter, which in my opinion is worse.

 

[DermViser]

There's just one person that has made it clear that he doesn't like me. Unfortunately, he's the clerkship director who will be filling out my SLOE. It's supposed to be a collaborate (and I've received awesome reviews from other attendings) but I'm worried because he's the one actually doing it.

Is there any way I can get someone else to fill out my SLOE? Or can I get another SLOE from a different attending? Or should I get a recommendation letter from another attending and not use my SLOE?

Thanks

He told you that?!!?

 

[Vandalia]

This may not be relevant to JuliaJulia's case, but do not necessarily assume that just because someone is tough on you, or is quick to criticize you, that they hate you, or wish you ill.

Toward the end of my time in the Air Force, I had a crotchety old commander who never ceased to provide very blunt "constructive" criticism. The simplest document would be returned with corrections. So, finally, I had enough of it. I didn't care. The AF needed me much more than I needed them. So I went to his office and let him have it. When I finished he smiled and handed me my OER (evaluation). It was by far the best one I ever had. He recommended me for a below-the-zone promotion. (Too difficult to explain exactly what that is, let it suffice that it is a very good thing.) Seeing the shock on my face, he laughed and said "Don't worry when I am growling at you. Worry when I ignore you."

On rare occasions, as I deal with bland administrators who appear to have been stamped out of a mold by McDonalds, I miss some of those old "characters." On rare occasions, mind you.

So to repeat, don't necessarily assume someone's demeanor indicates what they think of you. The reverse situation - someone appears to love you but gives a horrible eval - is probably more common, but the other situation does happen.

 

[MRSAful Fate]

I think the above is all good advice, but if you're getting rave reviews from certain attendings asking one of them to write you a SLOE wouldn't be a bad move. Especially if any of them happen to be the PD, assistant PD, chair, etc.

 

[Vandalia]

I think the above is all good advice, but if you're getting rave reviews from certain attendings asking one of them to write you a SLOE wouldn't be a bad move. Especially if any of them happen to be the PD, assistant PD, chair, etc.

Very true. My point is that if for whatever reason you are forced to use the questionable letter, don't assume your medical career is over and you will have to get a job in Missouri.

 

[DreamingTheLive]

Very true. My point is that if for whatever reason you are forced to use the questionable letter, don't assume your medical career is over and you will have to get a job in Missouri.

Zing.

 

[Vandalia]

For those who haven't been reading the news, Missouri passed a law recently that allows medical school graduates to "practice" (after a fashion) without completing any GME.

 

[GTP]

They may notice that you rotated somewhere and didn't submit a letter from that place, raising the question of why with poor evaluation as the most likely answer. They may also contact that place for feedback. Still better to not drop a bad review of yourself into their lap...

this seems kind of extreme. Who has time to thoroughly go through your apps to figure out why you didn't have letters from some places? I have 4 aways set up from now till oct 30. Do they expect me to have 4 SLOEs? I'd argue that most people's first rotation is shaky, so they would rather use later SLOEs when they were more comfortable about their skills and knowledge.

 

[swamprat]

You could always just get an individual letter from another attending, this way they will be less likely to wonder why you didn't recieve a SLOR from them. I can't tell you the # of times I was asked on an interview "did you rotate anywhere else?" or "so you only rotated at X and Y?" I assume this was because my transcript showed 2 EM rotations and I had only 2 SLORS.

 

[Birdstrike]

If you have the ability to have a known bad letter not be sent, then don't have it sent. That's a no brainer. I had an outlier letter from my med school EM rotation, that was totally unexpected and enough of an outlier to literally be brought up during interviews. I got this question: "One of your letters stood out amongst the others, because of how 'mediocre' it was. What do you have to say about this?" I had no clue about it until I started getting asked about it.

This was amongst a sea of universally excellent letters, grades and rotations. Turns out the $!*¥~€}%*|!! that wrote it, still decided to interview me himself, then ranked me near the top of his own frickin' rank order list.

Explain that to me, please.

When I didn't match there, everyone at that program knew I must not have ranked them at all. They all knew me since I rotated there, and told me they me ranked me very high. Apparently they ranked me high enough, they were expecting me to be a lock to go there if I ranked them anywhere near my top three.

It was very bizarre and I have no clue what it all meant, or why this guy wrote me a crap letter. It didn't hold me back though. Everything happens for a reason. Have faith. Take your punches and keep fighting, and don't let the haters hold you back.

 

[alpinism]

Was it really a bad letter or was he just being honest?

Sounds like one of those old school no bull guys who hate PC letters and who're toughest on the students they respect the most.

Ive met a few older faculty who are out of touch with the current SLOE system.

 

[Cinclus]

If you have the ability to have a known bad letter not be sent, then don't have it sent. That's a no brainer. I had an outlier letter from my med school EM rotation, that was totally unexpected and enough of an outlier to literally be brought up during interviews. I got this question: "One of your letters stood out amongst the others, because of how 'mediocre' it was. What do you have to say about this?" I had no clue about it until I started getting asked about it.

This was amongst a sea of universally excellent letters, grades and rotations. Turns out the $!*¥~€}%*|!! that wrote it, still decided to interview me himself, then ranked me near the top of his own frickin' rank order list.

Explain that to me, please.

When I didn't match there, everyone at that program knew I must not have ranked them at all. They all knew me since I rotated there, and told me they me ranked me very high. Apparently they ranked me high enough, they were expecting me to be a lock to go there if I ranked them anywhere near my top three.

It was very bizarre and I have no clue what it all meant, or why this guy wrote me a crap letter. It didn't hold me back though. Everything happens for a reason. Have faith. Take your punches and keep fighting, and don't let the haters hold you back.

Maybe he wanted you for his own program so badly that he tried to make you less appealing to other programs....

 

[Birdstrike]

Maybe he wanted you for his own program so badly that he tried to make you less appealing to other programs....

That's what a lot of people have said. I just don't know. All I know is that it was weird; very weird. Most of all, I'm actually glad the interviewers asked about it, though I freaked me out at the time, because it showed me this program director's true colors. Otherwise I might have ranked them very high and ended up there, under the rule of King Weirdness.

 

[Killa Beez MD]

The same exact thing happened to me last year. I received only a "pass" from my away EM rotation so I didn't send my SLOE from that rotation to any of the programs I was applying to. Since I only did the 1 away, I felt pretty screwed. I honestly thought I had done a great job during my away rotation and I had great evaluations from my home EM program. I ended up contacting one of the attendings that I had spent a few of my shifts working with at the away rotation and asked for an individual letter of rec. I ended up submitting that letter to the programs I was applying to. I'm sure it would have been preferable to have a SLOE from my away rotation but no one on the interview trail asked why I turned in an individual letter and not a SLOE from the rotation. I ended up matching at my #1 program. If you have any questions just PM me.

 

[littlejuan]

You could always just get an individual letter from another attending, this way they will be less likely to wonder why you didn't recieve a SLOR from them. I can't tell you the # of times I was asked on an interview "did you rotate anywhere else?" or "so you only rotated at X and Y?" I assume this was because my transcript showed 2 EM rotations and I had only 2 SLORS.

Definitely try to do this. Don't submit a bad letter if you know it will be bad.

 

[JuliaJulia]

Awesome & encouraging advice from everyone. Thank you x 100.

 

[codegrey]

In my personal experience, one bad letter will utterly destroy your application. Do everything and anything you can to avoid that. It's better to only have two letters and leave out one if it may be negative .

I interviewed some people for my program , and I did not encounter a single negative letter of rec. If I did, it would be damning based on the scoring system that I used.

 

[gman33]

this seems kind of extreme. Who has time to thoroughly go through your apps to figure out why you didn't have letters from some places? I have 4 aways set up from now till oct 30. Do they expect me to have 4 SLOEs? I'd argue that most people's first rotation is shaky, so they would rather use later SLOEs when they were more comfortable about their skills and knowledge.

If you are doing EM rotations at a place that has a residency program, a SLOR will be expected.
If you are doing 4 aways + a home EM month, I'd be more concerned why you were wasting your fourth year.

 

[gman33]

For the OP, if you are fairly certain this letter will suck, leave it out.
While your advisor at your home program can't tell you what is in the letter, some "helpful" advisors may tell you which letters would be best to include in your application.
Programs will notice the missing letter and likely assume it was bad, but that is still better than actually seeing a bad letter.

I did an away at a place where one of the assistant PDs thought I sucked. He put some bad comments in my eval.
He wasn't the one writing the letter, not sure if his comments made it in.
It all worked out in the end.

 

[Modafinil]

If you are doing EM rotations at a place that has a residency program, a SLOR will be expected.
If you are doing 4 aways + a home EM month, I'd be more concerned why you were wasting your fourth year.

I don't understand why people are trying to do 3+ aways... 4th year is a BLAST and you should all be enjoying it.

 

[GTP]

If you are doing EM rotations at a place that has a residency program, a SLOR will be expected.
If you are doing 4 aways + a home EM month, I'd be more concerned why you were wasting your fourth year.

I don't have a home rotation. Im a DO applicant so I don't really have a choice regarding the 4 aways. I have two MD ones (minimum to get two sloes), and two DO rotations. I plan to use my MD sloes unless I get in the impression that I got a much better sloe from one of the DO rotations. As you have probably heard, most DO residencies require auditions.

 

[OR4life]

I'm in a similar position, nothing as explicit as the OP's situation but I just haven't really connected with the attendings, don't really feel like I stood out in any way except for looking like an idiot for presenting in a way that an attending didn't like or answering a question wrong.
My classmates have definitely outperformed me, some of them were even on first name basis with some attendings, whereas most of the attendings didn't seem to know or care who i was
I'm considering not waiving my right to see the letter, I would rather do that than submit a bad SLOE, haven't decided yet.

 

[BoardingDoc]

I'm considering not waiving my right to see the letter, I would rather do that than submit a bad SLOE, haven't decided yet.

You may as well not bother submitting it at that point. A letter that hasn't been waived is generally useless. At the very least, every single program is going to ask you why you needed to read it and it will be a small red flag on your application. I wouldn't go that route unless you absolutely had to.

 

[FunnyCurrent]

Will programs really care about it if you omit one sloe but have already submitted 3 excellent SLOE's ?

 

[Killa Beez MD]

Will programs really care about it if you omit one sloe but have already submitted 3 excellent SLOE's ?

They won't care if they don't know about it. If it's not a good SLOE, don't submit it and don't mention that you did a rotation at that place on your application or during your interview.