That would correlate roughly to a total loan burden of around $50,000 unless you are using IBR. That's about one year of loans for many medical students. The average debt nationally is $140,000 as of 2007 (
http://www.amsa.org/AMSA/Homepage/About/Committees/StudentLife/DebtFactSheet.aspx).
good point... I am about average as far as loan burden, but I am on a graduated repayment plan for the bulk of my loans...I am locked into it, but it is actually not available anymore. I think the closest thing is the income contingent plan maybe?
I also was fortunate enough to have locked in a pretty low fixed rate interest by consolidating with the government back in 2006. I was able to consolidate with the government because of a couple tiny Direct loans i'd taken out in college. So I was lucky that way.
In total, IMO the increased salary as a fellow does not justify the MD->postdoc route for someone seriously considering a bench research career. The lack of student loan debt during the MD/PhD program still makes the MD/PhD pathway the best financial plan given the tremendous current loan burden of medical school graduates.
You're talking about MSTP here and you are absolutely correct in this. Not arguing what you said here in the least. But for someone who is not MSTP, what is the best way to become a physician scientist? Is investing the time/pay cut to get a Ph.D necessary? I say no.
Running experiments alone was a 60-80 hour a week job for me. My boss was not particularly demanding until it was time for me to actually finish, hah. As for the time commitment paying off, we will see. I don't think it helped me obtain a residency. At this point, I am strongly leaning towards private practice when I finish residency.
I mean it really depends on what the project is, how efficient one is, how motivated one is, how much energy one has, a bit of luck as well. Bench research is the kind of thing that you can easily spend your every waking hour doing assays, or you can take your sweet time getting things done, or somewhere in between. It's so self-directed that the onus is on you to define a work-life balance.
And what you said about not knowing whether a Ph.D. paid off yet... this is exactly my point. You invested all this time and effort getting a Ph.D. and it may not have really mattered in the end. I personally dont think extra education is ever a waste, but if one hasn't done it yet and is trying to decide how to reach their goal, I personally dont think a Ph.D. is necessary to be successful in the research world. It might end up being a different kind of research than Ph.D.s might have more expertise with, but all of these kinds of research are needed.
For bench research, that only happens if the subspecialty fellowship includes years of protected bench research time. Whether you call that protected research time "post-doc" or "fellowship" is a matter of semantics.
very true and very good point, thank you for mentioning this Neuronix. When i was interviewing for fellowship, there were
definitely some programs who emphasized research and some who were excellent but purely clinical training programs. If one is thinking research career, it is REALLY important to make sure you end up in a fellowship that does have that research emphasis and does have ample research opportunities for your topic of interest (if you have one).
I completely agree. I don't think an MD should go back for a PhD, and I have stated so in this forums several times (see:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11854704&postcount=5). This is a pre-medical student deciding whether to do a PhD now as part of an MD/PhD program or to do MD to post-doc later. This is a different situation.
Oh, if so then I apologize i missed that detail. Well my advice is, if you are deciding MSTP then do MSTP. It's a free ride through med school, additional research experience, usually gives you a leg up for residency match (not always though), and if you have a chance to get a free couple of degrees you shouldn't miss out on that opportunity. If it's an MD/Ph.D program where you will still have to pay for med school, then depending on the kind of research you want to do, i recommend opting for the MD only, doing some sort of additional research exposure, whether its a year-long research program during med school (can also help BIG time for residency match and give you valuable connections for later on) or a post-doc after residency, or just going straight into a research-oriented subspecialty fellowship after residency, or all of the above.
That is not what the op is posting about. MD/PhD programs are meant to generate bench researchers. The op in this thread asked about alternate pathways to bench research. if the op had asked about clinical research, I would have recommended they not complete a PhD.
Translational research involves bench research as well as clinical research and is usually much more interesting and relevant to an MD-trained individual, and can usually be successfully handled by pure MD's with additional research experience. But yes, the OP's decision will really have to rest on what KIND of research he/she wants to do. Very basic science will likely require a Ph.D. background to have the expertise needed to compete with Ph.D. trained scientists, though I argue that the Ph.D. course for an MD/PhD is usually more rushed and abbreviated than the typical pure Ph.D course, so the niche may still remain distinct.
I agree, but I think you're underestimating the time and effort required to launch a bench research career in the current funding environment as an MD or MD/PhD. Launching a career comprised of a large amount of clinical research is much easier and does not require a PhD.
Yes. Translational research included in the latter. IME, MD-only researchers tend to have a lab doing translational bench research as well as clinical research protocols going on at the same time. Some MDs do only do clinical non-bench research, it really depends.
A good rule of thumb for expected post-doc salaries is the NIH post-doc minimum. See:
http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/NOT-OD-11-067.html. A good rule of thumb for expected resident/fellow salary is take the equivalent number of years on that post-doc chart and add about $10,000/year. Depending on your debt burden, this may make up the difference between MDs and PhDs in student loan debt, but most likely will not.
OK i am going to address my higher post-doc salary here. I am being paid higher than the average post doc. Yes. Why is this? Two things. My year doing research in med school counted as prior experience, as did my years of residency training. The extra years of experience boosted me on the pay scale. BOOM. Great reason to do MD only, then residency, then postdoc.
MSTP is a much sweeter deal though, so I am not comparing this to MSTP... it is in a class by itself.