"Best Healthcare Jobs for 2015" list in Forbes

[297point1]

Not blaming Forbes for this one- they are reprinting it from CareerCast (a job search website).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/12/04/the-best-healthcare-jobs-in-2015/

And what do they have to say about pharmacy? After trodding out the BLS predictions, the publisher of CareerCast (Tony Lee, a former Wall Street Journal staffer who should know better) offers these gems:
- While the pharmacists at my local Duane Reade appear to toil under fluorescent lights on their feet for eight-hour shifts while demanding and sometimes desperate customers plead for medication advice to help them with constipation and sleeplessness, Lee insists that most pharmacists get satisfaction from helping patients, and have “a lot of freedom and flexibility in the job.”
- He says the vast majority of pharmacists work in hospitals
- Lee adds that the profession is growing as many people in the career approach retirement age and fewer people study to become pharmacists, opening up jobs.

I don't believe I will be going to CareerCast for sound advice anytime soon.

Have fun, SDN...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[PolarPop]

I still blame Forbes.

 

[Baller MD]

Not blaming Forbes for this one- they are reprinting it from CareerCast (a job search website).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/12/04/the-best-healthcare-jobs-in-2015/

And what do they have to say about pharmacy? After trodding out the BLS predictions, the publisher of CareerCast (Tony Lee, a former Wall Street Journal staffer who should know better) offers these gems:
- While the pharmacists at my local Duane Reade appear to toil under fluorescent lights on their feet for eight-hour shifts while demanding and sometimes desperate customers plead for medication advice to help them with constipation and sleeplessness, Lee insists that most pharmacists get satisfaction from helping patients, and have “a lot of freedom and flexibility in the job.”
- He says the vast majority of pharmacists work in hospitals
- Lee adds that the profession is growing as many people in the career approach retirement age and fewer people study to become pharmacists, opening up jobs.

I don't believe I will be going to CareerCast for sound advice anytime soon.

Have fun, SDN...

 

[PharmDCandidate2014]

The vast majority of pharmacists work in hospitals? What?

 

[oldstock]

Not blaming Forbes for this one- they are reprinting it from CareerCast (a job search website).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/12/04/the-best-healthcare-jobs-in-2015/

And what do they have to say about pharmacy? After trodding out the BLS predictions, the publisher of CareerCast (Tony Lee, a former Wall Street Journal staffer who should know better) offers these gems:
- While the pharmacists at my local Duane Reade appear to toil under fluorescent lights on their feet for eight-hour shifts while demanding and sometimes desperate customers plead for medication advice to help them with constipation and sleeplessness, Lee insists that most pharmacists get satisfaction from helping patients, and have “a lot of freedom and flexibility in the job.”
- He says the vast majority of pharmacists work in hospitals
- Lee adds that the profession is growing as many people in the career approach retirement age and fewer people study to become pharmacists, opening up jobs.

I don't believe I will be going to CareerCast for sound advice anytime soon.

Have fun, SDN...

you guys are a bit late to notice that Forbes article... we've already discussed that one a few days ago here....



<<But, I am quite sure that those people are certainly not stupid, naive, delusional or might not at all know to conduct a good (and/or scientific) research. They are certainly know what they are doing according to their credentials / resumes...

So you have to ask what is/are their motive(s) for saying outrageous things like these... Or, you can ask who is/are paying them for saying all those things ??...>>

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/goto/post?id=16039209#post-16039209

 

[oldstock]

Not blaming Forbes for this one- they are reprinting it from CareerCast (a job search website).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/12/04/the-best-healthcare-jobs-in-2015/

And what do they have to say about pharmacy? After trodding out the BLS predictions, the publisher of CareerCast (Tony Lee, a former Wall Street Journal staffer who should know better) offers these gems:
- While the pharmacists at my local Duane Reade appear to toil under fluorescent lights on their feet for eight-hour shifts while demanding and sometimes desperate customers plead for medication advice to help them with constipation and sleeplessness, Lee insists that most pharmacists get satisfaction from helping patients, and have “a lot of freedom and flexibility in the job.”
- He says the vast majority of pharmacists work in hospitals
- Lee adds that the profession is growing as many people in the career approach retirement age and fewer people study to become pharmacists, opening up jobs.

I don't believe I will be going to CareerCast for sound advice anytime soon.

Have fun, SDN...

The vast majority of pharmacists work in hospitals? What?

and I bet many pre-pharmers are believing these BS... sad...

 

[gwarm01]

Hospital jobs are actually closer to what? 20% of the pharmacist workforce? I'm surprised they didn't mention the large sign on bonuses, free company cars, and autonomous clinical care that is totally paid for by insurance companies.

 

[shutterfly]

Hospital jobs are actually closer to what? 20% of the pharmacist workforce? I'm surprised they didn't mention the large sign on bonuses, free company cars, and autonomous clinical care that is totally paid for by insurance companies.

WAIT?! YOU MEAN THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF PHARMACISTS?!! YOU MEAN I WON"T GET MY SIGN ON BONUS AND CAR?! INSTEAD IM NOT EVEN GOING TO BE TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING BY CORPORATE AND MEET UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS?! that is of course if I am able to find Full time work without moving to the boonies (if I'm luckily)?

 

[oldstock]

WAIT?! YOU MEAN THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF PHARMACISTS?!! YOU MEAN I WON"T GET MY SIGN ON BONUS AND CAR?! INSTEAD IM NOT EVEN GOING TO BE TREATED LIKE A HUMAN BEING BY CORPORATE AND MEET UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS?! that is of course if I am able to find Full time work without moving to the boonies (if I'm luckily)?

what are you guys talking about ?? there is still "shortage" according to pharm schools and pharmacy organizations...

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/pmp_abb.jsp

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/about.jsp

 

[shutterfly]

what are you guys talking about ?? there is still "shortage" according to pharm schools and pharmacy organizations...

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/pmp_abb.jsp

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/about.jsp

I like you old stock. you get my sarcasm lol

 

[oldstock]

I like you old stock. you get my sarcasm lol

lol

 

[297point1]

what are you guys talking about ?? there is still "shortage" according to pharm schools and pharmacy organizations...

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/pmp_abb.jsp

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/about.jsp

I do challenge you to find a pharmacy school that has been open for more than 12 months still stating that there is a pharmacist shortage. Most have gotten much more careful about this, especially in light of ACPE's move to require disclosure of outcomes of success (NAPLEX pass rates, on-time graduation rates, and measures of student success) on school websites.

Many people (myself included) expect the next outcome of success to be required by ACPE will be 'employment rate at graduation'. Some schools are already reporting this...and the results are all over the place (I've seen some in the 60% range). Once this metric becomes a requirement, I believe things will get very interesting.

 

[oldstock]

I do challenge you to find a pharmacy school that has been open for more than 12 months still stating that there is a pharmacist shortage. Most have gotten much more careful about this, especially in light of ACPE's move to require disclosure of outcomes of success (NAPLEX pass rates, on-time graduation rates, and measures of student success) on school websites.

Challenge accepted !!

http://www.usj.edu/academics/schools/school-of-pharmacy/about-pharmacy-usj/

http://www.usj.edu/academics/schools/school-of-pharmacy/

 

[oldstock]

I do challenge you to find a pharmacy school that has been open for more than 12 months still stating that there is a pharmacist shortage. Most have gotten much more careful about this, especially in light of ACPE's move to require disclosure of outcomes of success (NAPLEX pass rates, on-time graduation rates, and measures of student success) on school websites.

http://pharmacy.umkc.edu/

http://pharmacy.umkc.edu/school-of-pharmacy-opens-third-site-in-springfield/#more-1930

 

[oldstock]

I do challenge you to find a pharmacy school that has been open for more than 12 months still stating that there is a pharmacist shortage. Most have gotten much more careful about this, especially in light of ACPE's move to require disclosure of outcomes of success (NAPLEX pass rates, on-time graduation rates, and measures of student success) on school websites.

Many people (myself included) expect the next outcome of success to be required by ACPE will be 'employment rate at graduation'. Some schools are already reporting this...and the results are all over the place (I've seen some in the 60% range). Once this metric becomes a requirement, I believe things will get very interesting.

http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.co...new-texas-pharmacy-school-open-2015?page=full

http://www.jsonline.com/business/me...-a-pharmacy-school-b99359123z1-277091181.html

 

[oldstock]

I do challenge you to find a pharmacy school that has been open for more than 12 months still stating that there is a pharmacist shortage. Most have gotten much more careful about this, especially in light of ACPE's move to require disclosure of outcomes of success (NAPLEX pass rates, on-time graduation rates, and measures of student success) on school websites.

http://www.aacp.org/resources/student/pharmacyforyou/Pages/joboutlook.aspx

 

[oldstock]

I do challenge you to find a pharmacy school that has been open for more than 12 months still stating that there is a pharmacist shortage. Most have gotten much more careful about this, especially in light of ACPE's move to require disclosure of outcomes of success (NAPLEX pass rates, on-time graduation rates, and measures of student success) on school websites.

need I give you more proof.... LOL

I do not trust ACPE or AACP. I do question their motives from the mandate of the PharmD degree and now this disclosure thingy... questionable timing as they should have done something a long time ago to stop the crazy school expansion. Instead, I saw them coming out and publicly having announced many times that they could not do anything and would not do anything but award accreditation to anyone who wanted to open schools and could qualify.

One word comes to my mind about ACPE, AACP, and other pharmacy organizations, and pharmacy schools: "COLLUDING" !!

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/pmp_abb.jsp

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/about.jsp

but I will try to give them some benefits of the doubt and wait and see what is happening next. I bet they only do more when there is severely negative public opinion or backlash.

Many people (myself included) expect the next outcome of success to be required by ACPE will be 'employment rate at graduation'. Some schools are already reporting this...and the results are all over the place (I've seen some in the 60% range). Once this metric becomes a requirement, I believe things will get very interesting.

I have seen some of those on some schools' websites. A step in the right direction but still not mean much. Those reports are composed from data collected from surveys of participating volunteers. Some find jobs will report. Some have not do not. Even those that report do not report how fast they find their first job after graduation. What is/are the offered salary(ies) ?? Full time vs part-time. Survey biases !!

Again, at least now more pre-pharmers have more data to look at (though they need to use their critical thinking skills here). Hope this will wake up some naive pre-pharmers who are still deep in denial or blindly believe the BS sold by pharm schools. They only need to see how many new grads are going to be there by the time they graduate from pharmacy school and how many jobs are going to be there. It is that simple !!

 

[zelman]

need I give you more proof.... LOL

To be fair, UMKC says there is a pharmacist shortage in rural Missouri. I'd believe that.

None of the other schools you posted have graduated a class of pharmacists, so while USJ may have had a school for over a year (though I'm not sure they have) I don't know how applicable your results are to the real problem.

 

[oldstock]

To be fair, UMKC says there is a pharmacist shortage in rural Missouri. I'd believe that.

None of the other schools you posted have graduated a class of pharmacists, so while USJ may have had a school for over a year (though I'm not sure they have) I don't know how applicable your results are to the real problem.

regarding USJ, I don't know how familiar you are with accreditation process though or that if you saw that USJ School of Pharmacy has already fully accredited from their website, which I posted in my original posts above.

Hope this one is clearer,

http://www.usj.edu/files/6214/0535/8736/school-of-pharmacy-accreditation.pdf


in order to receive full accreditation from ACPE, a pharmacy school need to graduate their first class. That means that the school (USJ) has been in existence and operated for at least 3-4 years.

https://www.acpe-accredit.org/pdf/PoliciesProceduresJuly2014.pdf



---




Now, I think you missed the point here. Did I already answer @297point1 's question / challenge ??

I do challenge you to find a pharmacy school that has been open for more than 12 months still stating that there is a pharmacist shortage. Most have gotten much more careful about this, especially in light of ACPE's move to require disclosure of outcomes of success (NAPLEX pass rates, on-time graduation rates, and measures of student success) on school websites.

Many people (myself included) expect the next outcome of success to be required by ACPE will be 'employment rate at graduation'. Some schools are already reporting this...and the results are all over the place (I've seen some in the 60% range). Once this metric becomes a requirement, I believe things will get very interesting.

not only I've provided proof of a pharmacy school that "has been open for more than 12 months still stating that there is a pharmacist shortage", i.e. USJ, I've also found proof that new schools that are opening now and in the process of opening are still using this "shortage" excuse (nationwide or locally) to open their schools. For God's sake, even ACCP is stating that there is a shortage of 157K pharmacist by 2020 and job prospect for pharmacist is great.

Mind you, these are not the only schools or pharmacy organizations that have done so. I think I can find more examples. But I am being tired right now to do free research for people... You only need to go play with Google for a bit

what are you guys talking about ?? there is still "shortage" according to pharm schools and pharmacy organizations...

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/pmp_abb.jsp

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/about.jsp

so did I pull things out of thin air when I said the above ????



but seriously, if you, as a pharmacist, do not see how my answers above are applicable to the real problem (i.e. saturation), I have no hope that an avg 20 year old pre-pharmer will see there is any saturation problem in pharmacy...

 

[oldstock]

@zelman

another thing: imho, to open a school to address a "shortage in rural area" is just an excuse. Opening a school in the area does not really solve any problem. To solve the problem, the government there has to provide enough incentives and attractions to attract the needed people to the area. Without those incentives and attractions, those students are going to leave the area right after graduation.

 

[Jloyay]

I think this is definitely a state-by-state or area-by-area issue. Just because there is a shortage in certain areas like Kansas or Missouri doesn't mean there will be a shortage in New York City. Not all graduates of pharmacy are willing to move half-way across the country for a job opening (in fact I'd be willing to say the vast majority aren't) and the ones that do are the ones that succeed.

You need to do your market research and adapt accordingly.

 

[zelman]

@zelman

another thing: imho, to open a school to address a "shortage in rural area" is just an excuse. Opening a school in the area does not really solve any problem. To solve the problem, the government there has to provide enough incentives and attractions to attract the needed people to the area. Without those incentives and attractions, those students are going to leave the area right after graduation.

I agree that the shortage in rural MO is a stupid justification. I was just saying it might be true (unlike claims of overall shortage).

And the USJ pharmacy school's FAQ says they aren't accredited yet. Another feather in their cap, I suppose.

 

[297point1]

Did I already answer @297point1 's question / challenge ??

Slowly nodding in agreement...
Nice work oldstock.

I have never seen the 'shortage through 2030' projection before (as listed on the USJ website), and the reference they cite for it does not appear to include that data point.

 

[OmiPharmD]

View attachment 188327 View attachment 188328 View attachment 188329

http://pharmacy.umkc.edu/

http://pharmacy.umkc.edu/school-of-pharmacy-opens-third-site-in-springfield/#more-1930

This one is likely still true. Rural Missouri has remained hard to staff. Because it's rural Missouri! The problem is that if you want to be near civilization you might be commuting 90 miles.

 

[oldstock]

This one is likely still true. Rural Missouri has remained hard to staff. Because it's rural Missouri! The problem is that if you want to be near civilization you might be commuting 90 miles.

that is exactly what I have said above here,

@zelman

another thing: imho, to open a school to address a "shortage in rural area" is just an excuse. Opening a school in the area does not really solve any problem. To solve the problem, the government there has to provide enough incentives and attractions to attract the needed people to the area. Without those incentives and attractions, those students are going to leave the area right after graduation.

 

[oldstock]

Slowly nodding in agreement...
Nice work oldstock.

I have never seen the 'shortage through 2030' projection before (as listed on the USJ website), and the reference they cite for it does not appear to include that data point.

the problem is, most people and pre-pharmers are treating anything coming out of ACPE, ACCP, pharmacy schools, and other supposed pharmacy authority sources like Gospel without any verification or checking...

anyway, I am sure you have already seen these,

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/pmp_abb.jsp

http://www.pharmacymanpower.com/about.jsp

read it again and have some good laugh on your down time. This is a project done by pharmacy schools / organization, dean of pharmacy schools, PhDs, PharmDs, etc, mind you...

 

[MountainPharmD]

I love how these schools think putting a new pharmacy school in will ease the shortage in rural areas. No it won't! It will only worsen the saturation in the desirable areas because that's were people want to live and work. Take Texas for instance. Texas has way more pharmacy schools than it needs yet they're still opening more to address the shortage of rural pharmacist. No one wants to live in West Texas or in South Texas anywhere near the border. You could build a 1000 pharmacy schools in Texas and this will never change.

 

[oldstock]

I love how these schools think putting a new pharmacy school in will ease the shortage in rural areas. No it won't! It will only worsen the saturation in the desirable areas because that's were people want to live and work. Take Texas for instance. Texas has way more pharmacy schools than it needs yet they're still opening more to address the shortage of rural pharmacist. No one wants to live in West Texas or in South Texas anywhere near the border. You could build a 1000 pharmacy schools in Texas and this will never change.

We know this and they surely know this. They just need some noble-sounding excuses to open new pharm schools, which they actually use to generate revenues, i.e. Big $$$$$$