Big Name Schools vs. No Name Schools

[zariman]

Hi, I've been following this board for the past 4 months or so and I'm posting here for the first time. My experience with the application cycle has been a good share of emotional downs and ups. I say it in that order since although I had low hopes in the beginning, I've received my first acceptance a couple of weeks ago. To my surprise that acceptance came from none other than Northwestern University. Before I ask my question here is an overview of my stats:

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University: Ohio State University
Major: Human Nutrition
Overall GPA: 3.31 (well defined upper trend)
Pre-Req GPA: (Self-Reported) 3.45
GRE: 156 V, 165 Q, 4.0 AW

Extra-Curric: Sunday School Teacher, Transportation Coordinator, Mission Trips, Agora Ministries (spend time with unprivileged children), Asian American Community Service (focuses on education and recreation for unprivileged Asian youths), Intramural Basketball Captain

Honors: Herbert H. Lee Scholarship, Gee Engineering Memorial Fund, Excellence Scholarship for Diversity, Provost Merit Scholarship, Fundamentals of Engineering for Honors

Work: Lawyer's Assistant (currently), Valet (previously)

Licenses: Adult CPR/AED

Volunteer: 41 Hours (Sports Medicine), 21 Hours (Acute Care), 60 Hours in progress (Rehab)

Acceptances: Northwestern University

Rejections: University of Toledo (Wait-listed), Drexler University

Interviews: Walsh University, University of Delaware, Ohio University, University of Indianapolis (Declined)

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You can see that my stats aren't exactly the best (Low volunteer hours and GPA). I've applied to a quite a number of schools (a number I am embarrassed to disclose) because of my low stats. At this point I am thankful that I've received an acceptance from NU, a school I had very little expectations of getting in. However, my main goal is to get into an in-state school and graduate with as little debt as possible. I've heard and read from many places that ranking for PT does not matter as long as the board passing rates are high enough and that I should look at low tuition costs when I make a decision. My dad tells me that regardless of the weightlessness of ranks, going to big name schools like NU more than justifies tuition cost. My question is if I get an acceptance from a low-tier, non-ranked, in-state school, would choosing this school over NU a wiser decision? Are there no real advantages to going to big name schools? Weigh me in on what you think. Thank you!

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[NewTestament]

The thing about PT is, there's not a lot of emphasis on prestige, rank, or reputation. This isn't medical or law school. Once you get to PT school, there's no competition there either. Everybody is helping each other out. The board exam is a national exam. A student who passes the board at NU isn't any more valuable than a student that passes the board at a no-name school in the middle of Illinois or Iowa. It doesn't matter.

Having said that, you should be concerned about the quality of your education. You should have confidence in the program of the lesser-known school. They should teach you the skills you need to know. What's most important is that they prepare you for the board exam.

I know your father says reputation is important, but that's kind of old school, and I don't think he understands physical therapy. You won't make any more money by graduating from NU than from another school. Reputation matters in some fields, but not in physical therapy.

Kevin

 

[okramango]

I would definitely choose a quality in-state program over NU if given that choice. Prestige is not worth years and years of debt, and will make no difference in the salary that you earn once you graduate. I was really tempted to apply to some prestigious private schools, but instead thought really hard about the differences in cost and what that would mean for my future. Instead I applied to some great state programs (in other states, since my own state programs are also pretty pricey).

 

[yaypt]

I believe that a bigger name school may have better connections to clinical sites and therefore place their students at "better" locations. Clinical rotations are always useful for networking, so if you have this exposure it can help you get a job/placement at a top medical center in the future.

 

[nicolej5]

I believe that a bigger name school may have better connections to clinical sites and therefore place their students at "better" locations. Clinical rotations are always useful for networking, so if you have this exposure it can help you get a job/placement at a top medical center in the future.

I disagree. Schools have hundreds of potential clinical placement sites. Just because someone doesn't go to a "better" school doesn't mean that they will get shortchanged when it comes to clinical rotations.

 

[jesspt]

Hi, I've been following this board for the past 4 months or so and I'm posting here for the first time. My experience with the application cycle has been a good share of emotional downs and ups. I say it in that order since although I had low hopes in the beginning, I've received my first acceptance a couple of weeks ago. To my surprise that acceptance came from none other than Northwestern University. Before I ask my question here is an overview of my stats:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

University: Ohio State University
Major: Human Nutrition
Overall GPA: 3.31 (well defined upper trend)
Pre-Req GPA: (Self-Reported) 3.45
GRE: 156 V, 165 Q, 4.0 AW

Extra-Curric: Sunday School Teacher, Transportation Coordinator, Mission Trips, Agora Ministries (spend time with unprivileged children), Asian American Community Service (focuses on education and recreation for unprivileged Asian youths), Intramural Basketball Captain

Honors: Herbert H. Lee Scholarship, Gee Engineering Memorial Fund, Excellence Scholarship for Diversity, Provost Merit Scholarship, Fundamentals of Engineering for Honors

Work: Lawyer's Assistant (currently), Valet (previously)

Licenses: Adult CPR/AED

Volunteer: 41 Hours (Sports Medicine), 21 Hours (Acute Care), 60 Hours in progress (Rehab)

Acceptances: Northwestern University

Rejections: University of Toledo (Wait-listed), Drexler University

Interviews: Walsh University, University of Delaware, Ohio University, University of Indianapolis (Declined)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can see that my stats aren't exactly the best (Low volunteer hours and GPA). I've applied to a quite a number of schools (a number I am embarrassed to disclose) because of my low stats. At this point I am thankful that I've received an acceptance from NU, a school I had very little expectations of getting in. However, my main goal is to get into an in-state school and graduate with as little debt as possible. I've heard and read from many places that ranking for PT does not matter as long as the board passing rates are high enough and that I should look at low tuition costs when I make a decision. My dad tells me that regardless of the weightlessness of ranks, going to big name schools like NU more than justifies tuition cost. My question is if I get an acceptance from a low-tier, non-ranked, in-state school, would choosing this school over NU a wiser decision? Are there no real advantages to going to big name schools? Weigh me in on what you think. Thank you!

Your Dad is wrong. By a lot. Unless he is going to pick up the whole tab for grad school, the advantages that any school as expensive as NU have are far outweighed by the potential to avoid oppressive debt if one goes to a more reasonably priced school.

 

[djb051]

Every physical therapist I have talked to (other than 1) told me that if they could go back and do it all over again that they would have choosen a cheaper school and that the ranking doesn't matter, you will still get a great education.

 

[Bluedevil2016]

Although a big name school might cost more and a low name school can get you the same board results--you do want to look at the overall connections, education and opportunities. You have to look at electives offered, the experience of professors, etc. Yes--a small no-name can get you to pass the board, but don't you want all the extra knowledge that a big name school could possibly offer you.

There has to be some reason for difference in cost besides the name. They have the big name and big cost for a reason--they offer a great education.

 

[lineoffire1175]

One other thing to keep in mind is exactly what setting you wish to work in after pt school. If you are interested in working for someone else during your career (outpatient, inpatient, traveling, home health etc.) then I would agree with everyone else who is saying that where you graduate from is not that important so you should go with the cheaper option.

On the flip side, if you plan to eventually open your own practice then I do believe that the name alone of the school you graduated from will carry some weight. There are tons of private clinics out there and for the every day potential new patient, they have a very hard time distinguishing which one to go to. The factor that I have noticed in my observation hours that pushes many patients toward a specific clinic, as trivial as it is, has been the name of the school the owner graduated from. When an average patient with little knowledge of pt school rankings and how close to meaningless they are is looking for a clinic in their area to go to and they have narrowed it down to two different clinics, just the fact that one of the clinic's owners graduated from a big name recognizable school (duke, northwestern, usc, nyu, columbia etc..) I have noticed carries quite a bit of weight.

So in my opinion, if you are looking to open your own practice the name could potentially be important, if you aren't then for sure go with the cheaper option.

 

[nicolej5]

Although a big name school might cost more and a low name school can get you the same board results--you do want to look at the overall connections, education and opportunities. You have to look at electives offered, the experience of professors, etc. Yes--a small no-name can get you to pass the board, but don't you want all the extra knowledge that a big name school could possibly offer you.

There has to be some reason for difference in cost besides the name. They have the big name and big cost for a reason--they offer a great education.

Just because someone goes to a small school doesn't mean that they won't have connections, tenured staff, and ample opportunities. Many small schools offer great educations as well. Going to a big name school and paying top dollar is like going to the store and buying an Apple product. Why so expensive? Because the Apple name attached to it. In my opinion, there aren't any more benefits to going to a big name school over a smaller school. Unless the big name school is an instate public school where tuition would be lower than the smaller school.

 

[adh28]

As with anything, graduate school will be what you make of it as a student and individual. As long as the smaller programs have the clinical exposure, curriculum, NPTE passing rates, and any other peculiars you may have, then I say go for it. Save the money and still become a PT!

 

[jesspt]

Although a big name school might cost more and a low name school can get you the same board results--you do want to look at the overall connections, education and opportunities. You have to look at electives offered, the experience of professors, etc. Yes--a small no-name can get you to pass the board, but don't you want all the extra knowledge that a big name school could possibly offer you.

There has to be some reason for difference in cost besides the name. They have the big name and big cost for a reason--they offer a great education.

Why does there have to be a reason?

 

[GTT4DPT]

There has to be some reason for difference in cost besides the name.

It could be that some people treat higher education as a positional good or a Veblen good.

According to Wikipedia, these ideas are closely related to the "Snob Effect" and the "Bandwagon Effect".

 

[NewTestament]

What we're trying to tell you, zariman, is to ignore the "snob effect." You can be humble and save $30-50k or be a poor snob.

Kevin

 

[1109]

I'm a first year at Northwestern, so I feel I can weigh in.

I went through the same debate in my head, as I got accepted to a few "name" schools and a few without. I chose NU because of thequality of education I would get there, the fact that their pass rates are 100% first time, the low student-faculty ratio, and th"extras" they had that I didn't see at other schools. Yes, it's expensive. But I whole-heartily believe that my NU education will take me further than a smaller no-name school. Will I get a job no matter where I go to PT school? Probably. Will it be the inpatient peds job that I want? Maybe not. What if I settle in Cali or DC after PT school? Will they even recognize the name of some little state school?

Granted, I know these are just my opinions, and these differ from lots of other peoples. I wouldn't say I'm "right," but I would say that going to a top ranked "name" school was the right decision for me.

My last bit of advice is make sure you visit schools and see if you like them. I fell in love with NU, and that feeling of happiness and belonging to me was worth some extra money.

 

[Bluedevil2016]

I didn't say that a small school couldn't offer you those things but looking at my two options. I had auto acceptance to Arcadia University (small school but ranked highly) and Duke (also ranked highly). Duke offered more research options, better facilities, more full-time staff, bigger classrooms and more large scale opportunities. They had all the facilities for anatomy where at Arcadia we would have to commute to a lab. I'm paying top dollar for the extras that Arcadia couldn't offer me.

No need for anyone to jump down my throat. I'm not saying you can't get the same education at the small school but the big name schools are big name schools for a reason. Like was previously said a few messages up--the name alone carries some weight. If you want to pay for it, it has some perks.

Overall, just pick what school you like best. You're going to want to enjoy being there.

 

[nomattic]

During my shadowing, practicing PT's told me this 10 times out of 10: the new, increased cost of DPT education at some of these larger private schools is so disproportionate with the amount of money you'll make practicing, it just isn't worth it. Take that as you will, as it didn't stop me from applying to some of the big name, big money schools. However, if I get accepted to my in-state program that costs 1/3rd of those other schools, yet still has the same quality of clinical placements and NPTE pass rates, I'm not even gonna hesitate. If the state schools that accepted you have good programs, which state schools truly do, it's worth strongly considering.

Also, I don't think it's as simple as "big name schools = more expensive and small name schools = less expensive." I've seen some pretty low ranked programs who are willing to accept applicants with lower stats while charging CRAZY tuition, while seeing some fantastic state schools charging far less. It's too nuanced to generalize.

 

[Azimuthal]

I don't think it should be about big name versus little name. It should be between good fit and better fit.

I'm attending a big name school but name was not even a considering factor. I chose it because of clinical affiliations, faculty:student ratio, current research and other personal preferences. My state program was lacking in some areas that I considered important, personally. Also, when my state's programs went DPT this year, tuition multiplied.