Biochemistry vs. Organic Chemistry

[PublicHealth]

What are the major differences between biochemistry and organic chemistry? Which is more difficult? Which is more interesting?

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[AverageMan]

Organic Chemistry is a course dealing mainly with reaction mechanisms and syntheses dealing with organic molecules. Biochemistry is the application of these reactions to biological processes. The major difference is that all med schools require a year of O Chem with lab, while only a handful of schools require biochemistry (though most of the rest highly recommend taking it, but don't list it as a requirement for applying). Which is harder? I don't think you can really compare the two in terms of difficulty, since they aren't meant to be taken at the same time. Standard pre-med O Chem is a sophmore level course while biochemistry is more of an junior or senior level course. O Chem is commonly a pre-requisite for biochemistry. I would imagine that they would be comparable difficulty relative to what year you are (Biochemistry will be as difficult to a senior as O Chem is to a sophmore). Which is more interesting? I'll let you know after this fall

 

[....]

Ochem takes brain power to understand the workings of it.
biochem takes will power to memorize the specifics of it. Knowing every reactant product and enxyme in the TCA, glycolosis, gluconeogenisis, Beta Oxidation, photosynthetic pathways. It sucks, but its gives you great insights into the body.

depends on which is tough for you.

 

[Jonkst]

Originally posted by hightrump
Ochem takes brain power to understand the workings of it.
biochem takes will power to memorize the specifics of it.

I disagree 100%. You can memorize your way through either Orgo or Biochem, or you can understand either one (or both). The way I saw it, biochem was orgo III, and maybe more applied. i also hear again and again that you should take biochem before med school because they go through it so fast.

 

[A.D.O.R.]

You need to understand second semester organic chemistry to have a shot at doing well in biochemistry. Whatever o-chem skills you perfected will be used when you study the numerous pathways -- i.e. TCA, glycolysis, urea cycle, etc. Some schools teach it differently but we had to memorize every structure (terpenes--> cholesterol, nitrogenous bases --> amino acids that result from their catabolism, etc.) and know how to push arrows to get from one molecule to the next in every pathway. You could just memorize this but it's easier to push arrows when you know the reasoning behind your arrow movements. Thus said, people who barely made it through organic II or had a tenuous hold on important organic concepts did not do well in biochemistry.

The other half of biochemistry is simply mind-numbing memorization of a lot of details.

Another thing to consider when discussing relative difficulty is whether or not biochem is taught in one or two semesters.

 

[steve007]

although i haven't taken it yet, my premed advisor told me biochem was not as hard as Ochem.

 

[quideam]

I agree, I thought biochem was a lot easier than organic, although I didn't think either one was all that bad. The difference, at least for me, was that Organic was a **** load of memorization, while biochem was more like "here's some reactions you already know, and here's how they work in your body". I liked biochem more because it actually applied to something I care about... medicine!! But either way, I'm kind of a chem nerd, so take this advice with a grain of NaCl....

- Quid

 

[....]

quideam, you have a better gpa and i think your mcat i better also,i respect your opinions, but i think your OChem teacher just sucked.

There is no need to memorize reactions if you understand the priciples. If you see two chemicals you should know what they will do before you are told what they do. Im sure this sounds like im being argumentative but.....what can i say....

 

[quideam]

hightrump,

Hmm.... I totally disagree; my ochem prof. was actually probably one of the best profs I had throughout all of undergrad. I agree that the goal is to understand the principles, but all that "don't memorize, understand" stuff is crap - there is a lot that you have to memorize in order to later understand more complex reactions. By the end of orgo II, I was able to predict many of the mechanisms, but that was only after I had memorized many others. You said that biochem was a lot of memorization, but I barely memorized anything for that course (other than the aas) because I already knew the foundations from ochem. I respect your opinions as well, but maybe if you had memorized more in ochem, you wouldn't have had to do as much for biochem? Ahh, i'm just being an ass....

- Quid

 

[Amy B]

I'm taking biochem this fall after taking Organic 2 years ago. Needless to say I'm a bit worried since I chemistry isn't fresh in my mind. But reading through the Biochem book, it does appear to be easier than Organic. I am remembering some things from Organic, thank goodness.

I would need organic to even take Biochem. You really couldn't do it without it and I can only assume it is a requirement to take organic first in every school.

 

[robotdancing]

personally, i preferred organic and found that i had more of a knack for it than biochem. that being said, biochem was an interesting course, and one that struck me as less difficult than it was made out to be. i was also slightly disappointed with its overemphasis on the biological processes versus the chemical. (i'm a supporter of the "understand the fundamentals, apply them to the specifics" philosophy)

 

[Gleevec]

I think Organic Chemistry is less based on memorization than Biochemistry, especially in regards to Bioenergetics and Metabolism. Ochem dealt with fundamental concepts that make sense after doing enough problem sets or reading through your notes, but a lot of biochemistry is the arbitrary set of reactions involved in metabolic processes. Regardless, the best ochem and biochem teachers will emphasize concepts that can be retained, and minimize the number of useless facts needed to be known for the class (stuff that can just as easily be looked up online)

 

[....]

I suppose it didnt help that my biochem teacher was chineese and only liked taking about her useless cancer reaserch. metaloproteinases metaloproteinases.....akkk

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by hightrump
I suppose it didnt help that my biochem teacher was chineese and only liked taking about her useless cancer reaserch. metaloproteinases metaloproteinases.....akkk

Well, MMPs are actually pretty good examples of proteins for biochemistry, as are DNA/RNA polymerases. But yeah, when profs talk about their research you're in for a load of hurt,

 

[group_theory]

In reality, all you need to memorize are the amino acids (structure, 3 letter abbreviation, 1 letter abbreviation, and their pka values), the structures of the nucleosides (all 5 of them)

That's it.

Memorizing Glycolysis and Kreb cycles is useless. You should be able to understand each step and each reaction. Why is glucose phosphorylated to G6P? Why does it have to be isomerized? You should be able to pick a carbon on glucose and be able to follow it through glycolysis and the TCA cycle. You should know which steps are reversible and which are non-reversible just based on the chemical reactions involved.

Once you understand glycolysis and TCA at this level, then you should be well-prepared to apply it to real life (research or medical). What happen when you inject a non-competitive inhibitor into this step? What happens if this enzyme loses its stereoselectivity? etc.

But in order to understand biochem at this level, you must mastered the basics of orgo (SN 1 or 2, Schiff's base, ketone reactions, aromatic reactions, etc).

Textbooks can be deceiving. Sure, you can open a biochem book by Voet or Stryer and say "this looks easy" - but it's up to the prof to open your eyes to the difficulties and complexity of biochemistry. The same w/ orgo. You can have orgo prof ask "what reaction is this? Draw the mechanism of this reaction" OR you can have an orgo prof go "based on your working knowledge of reactions/mechanisms, try to explain how this molecule was made from this molecule".

The first set of questions test you on your ability to memorize. The second set test you on your mastery of the subject. Same with biochem. You can either have "Name all the hydrophobic amino acids" or you can have "The following amino acid sequence was found in the lipid side of a phospholipid bilayer membrane - FLILVW - what is the significant of the sequences".

OK - my post made no sense whatsoever. But hey, this is SDN and I'm just ranting and wasting time.

Cheers

Group_theory
PCOM Class of 2007

 

[quideam]

Originally posted by hightrump
I suppose it didnt help that my biochem teacher was chineese and only liked taking about her useless cancer reaserch. metaloproteinases metaloproteinases.....akkk

... you poor thing!!! I had one crazy orgo prof at first, but then I switched over to the other guy and he was very good. My biochem prof, on the other hand, is a whole other insane story...

- Quid

 

[spumoni620]

so you biochem veterans would not recommend taking biochem I w/o having taking organic II? i'm enrolled for both right now and thinking of dropping one...

 

[Sweet Tea]

oh yeah. i thought orgo 2 was very helpful for biochem. drop that biochem now, especially if you can pick it up again later.

i should be studying biochem now as a matter of fact (but i'd much rather post on sdn )