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quickfeet

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Other thread got me thinking a little bit about this. In those pretty rare circumstances where you prescribe them for anxiety, which one do you like best and why? It appears atenolol has a long half life (Inderal a short one) but metoprolol has β1 selectivity and therefore better for anxiety. I am only a student so I am just curious.

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Other thread got me thinking a little bit about this. In those pretty rare circumstances where you prescribe them for anxiety, which one do you like best and why? It appears atenolol has a long half life (Inderal a short one) but metoprolol has β1 selectivity and therefore better for anxiety. I am only a student so I am just curious.

Propanolol crosses the blood-brain barrier better than any of these, and such it is used most often for tx of anxiety. Metoprolol does cross significantly but not as much. It could be a reasonable option. Atenolol does not cross well at all.
 
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Propanolol crosses the blood-brain barrier better than any of these, and such it is used most often for tx of anxiety. Metoprolol does cross significantly but not as much. It could be a reasonable option. Atenolol does not cross well at all.

Does anyone use the extended release version of Metoprolol (succinate) versus the IR?
 
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Anyone have thoughts on Bystolic (nebivolol)? Very lipophilic, and very B1 selective. Lower rates of depression and the other BB side effects than even metoprolol...

Hmm...I wonder...
 
Anyone have thoughts on Bystolic (nebivolol)? Very lipophilic, and very B1 selective. Lower rates of depression and the other BB side effects than even metoprolol...

Hmm...I wonder...

Isn't that stuff expensive, though? Virtually all the others are dirt cheap.
 
Isn't that stuff expensive, though? Virtually all the others are dirt cheap.

It is more expensive yes. Most people with insurance are in the $30/month range or so, but a few companies have it at $10! Just have to check.

Hey, if it works better and doesn't cause the BB depression and impotence, I think most people with a bit of money would be happy to spring for it.
 
It is more expensive yes. Most people with insurance are in the $30/month range or so, but a few companies have it at $10! Just have to check.

Hey, if it works better and doesn't cause the BB depression and impotence, I think most people with a bit of money would be happy to spring for it.

Who says it does?

I thought it was Inderal that is the worst in terms of mood.
 
Who says it does?

I thought it was Inderal that is the worst in terms of mood.

Well, the decreased incidence of side effects is pretty well documented in the literature. Not statistically different than placebo.

I'm only hypothesizing that it might work well for anxiety since its highly lipophilic. I don't know of any data, but haven't looked either. It's probably too new and expensive (and doing very well among the HTN crowd) for them to pursue off-label or secondary indication hunches.

Still...I wonder.
 
Well, the decreased incidence of side effects is pretty well documented in the literature. Not statistically different than placebo.

I'm only hypothesizing that it might work well for anxiety since its highly lipophilic. I don't know of any data, but haven't looked either. It's probably too new and expensive (and doing very well among the HTN crowd) for them to pursue off-label or secondary indication hunches.

Still...I wonder.

What is the plasma
halflife of Bystolic?

I know Inderal is super short, Lopressor not far behind.
 
Anyone have thoughts on Bystolic (nebivolol)? Very lipophilic, and very B1 selective. Lower rates of depression and the other BB side effects than even metoprolol...

Hmm...I wonder...

I would be interested to hear responses to this. I've been looking into Bystolic (Nebivolol) lately for anxiety cases.
 
I would be interested to hear responses to this. I've been looking into Bystolic (Nebivolol) lately for anxiety cases.

I haven't heard of anything. I did a pretty thorough lit search and didn't find anything. Going to ask around at my program and see if anyone has thoughts...

Maybe I found my first research topic. I call dibs. Hands off. :)
 
I haven't heard of anything. I did a pretty thorough lit search and didn't find anything. Going to ask around at my program and see if anyone has thoughts...

Maybe I found my first research topic. I call dibs. Hands off. :)

One thing I also realized, and that a physician pointed out to me, is because of Nebivolol's unique NO-potentiating vasodilation, it could be helpful in panic disorder patient who "over-somaticize" about things related to peripheral pulse pressure (feeling heart pounding in arms/legs). Just something I've been thinking about...
 
One thing I also realized, and that a physician pointed out to me, is because of Nebivolol's unique NO-potentiating vasodilation, it could be helpful in panic disorder patient who "over-somaticize" about things related to peripheral pulse pressure (feeling heart pounding in arms/legs). Just something I've been thinking about...

hehehe......

you guys are seriously overthinking this.

low dose beta blockers are fairly harmless and so that's why they are occasionally prescribed for performance anxiety, but they arent particularly effective.....we could debate whether the placebo benefit of throwing another anxiety med at a pt is worth continuing to reinforce the concept that pill=anxiety relief to pts, but anyone who spends more than 5 seconds wondering about kinetics and mechanisms of beta blockers in the use of anxiety disorders is wasting their time.

imo, depends on the pt.
 
hehehe......

you guys are seriously overthinking this.

low dose beta blockers are fairly harmless and so that's why they are occasionally prescribed for performance anxiety, but they arent particularly effective.....we could debate whether the placebo benefit of throwing another anxiety med at a pt is worth continuing to reinforce the concept that pill=anxiety relief to pts, but anyone who spends more than 5 seconds wondering about kinetics and mechanisms of beta blockers in the use of anxiety disorders is wasting their time.

imo, depends on the pt.

Hehe... well yeah I suppose I might be overthinking it a little bit.
 
Wanted to revive this thread. Any more thoughts on Nebivolol for anxiety. Had a patient ask me about it the other day. He was put on it by his FP for hypertension. He has a lot of somatization and anxiety which are likely contributing to his chronic neck pain. Never heard of bystolic so looked it up and found my favorite forum. Any more thoughts/experience with this drug for anxiety?
 
One helpful thing I might be able to add is that some people who have a dysautonomic disorder are wrongly diagnosed as having an anxiety disorder. I thought of that just now because of the mentioning of beta blockers and patients with panic who present with palpitations. Some people have palpitations because they are tachycardic. In my personal experience, anxiety does not affect my pulse or blood pressure to any appreciable extent, but flaring of POTS symptoms does greatly. I can have a panic attack and a pulse of 60 or be calm and a pulse of 170 if I were off my beta blocker.

Some people have previously mentioned Inderal since it crosses the brain blood barrier. My question has always been: What does it do once it crosses?

I take bisoprolol and it's been the best for me by far. Inderal caused my chest to feel like it was collapsing. Metoprolol interacted severely with Paxil and way over-potentiated my effective metoprolol dose.

But I take it for my POTS symptoms, which were incorrectly ascribed to anxiety previously. I don't know what it would do for someone who has anxiety and not dysautonomia. But I do think much more attention should be paid to the possibility of a person having dysautonomia who presents with symptoms that look like anxiety.

I had a worsening of my dysautonomia before it was diagnosed. My pulse was in the 150-170ss and my psychiatrist was sure it was a panic attack. I called him, and he told me that there was no such thing as a maximum dose of Ativan and to keep taking more until I reached a therapeutic level. That was the most Ativan I've ever taken in a day, and my pulse never relented. I went to my PCP, and he also didn't diagnose dysautonomia, but instead treated the symptoms rather than the presumed cause and gave me what he described as a "homeopathic" dose of Inderal. I don't know how much it was, but it was small. It instantly knocked the tachycardia out. It was such amazing relief. Because while the cause was not anxiety, it is horribly uncomfortable to be that tachycardic for days at a time. It was very serious. He told me at the time that this was my one free trip to get admitted to the hospital for my heart (he knows I'm the worried type who would feel relieved to be admitted), but my dad talked me out of it and into just trying the Inderal. I only later found out when he measured my pulse how high it was--he didn't even want to tell me for fear of freaking me out.

Anyhow, many trips to cardiologists and many tests ruling things out, and I eventually was diagnosed with POTS and general dysautonomia. I have the hyper-adrenergic type so I don't pass out.

I am still not sure what the etiology is. Part of me thinks it could be tolerance withdrawal to benzodiazepines as POTS is a fairly common diagnosis on benzo recovery forums.
 
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