Bonus

[97t]

senior resident here looking at jobs....what are typical annual profit sharing bonuses once you make partner? just trying to compare apples to apples while looking at partnership vs nonpartnership jobs.

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[Birdstrike]

senior resident here looking at jobs....what are typical annual profit sharing bonuses once you make partner? just trying to compare apples to apples while looking at partnership vs nonpartnership jobs.

Highly variable from job to job, year to year, and bonus period to bonus period. Could be anywhere from nothing, to 80% or your hourly pay. Don't pick your job based on the promised, future yet-to-be-determined bonuses. Quality of life trumps all. Look for jobs with very little turn over. That's the key. If there is high turnover, there's a reason, no matter how good it looks on paper. The best jobs are not advertised and fill sometimes even before they open. To a large extent, the jobs that pay a ton, do so because they have to, to keep people. Remember, all jobs look great when you interview, otherwise no one would work there.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Highly variable from job to job, year to year, and bonus period to bonus period. Could be anywhere from nothing, to 80% or your hourly pay. Don't pick your job based on the promised, future yet-to-be-determined bonuses. Quality of life trumps all. Look for jobs with very little turn over. That's the key. If there is high turnover, there's a reason, no matter how good it looks on paper. The best jobs are not advertised and fill sometimes even before they open. To a large extent, the jobs that pay a ton, do so because they have to, to keep people. Remember, all jobs look great when you interview, otherwise no one would work there.

+1

The bonus structure really varies depending on how the group pays itself. My group doesn't pay bonuses at all. At the end of the month, the employees and expenses are paid, then the pot is divided up among the partners according to how many shifts they worked. They then pay their own malpractice, benefits, CME, ACEP dues etc and take home the rest. I have a friend in a group where they pay themselves $90 an hour. Then, once a quarter, a sizeable bonus with the rest of their pay, which he says is somewhere from $50-100 an hour. So, would you prefer just getting your $200 an hour up front, or would you like some of it now and some of it later as a bonus? Look at the total package, but much more important than money is the partners. You're going to be with these people for a long time and trust them with literally millions of dollars and peoples' lives. Choose wisely.

 

[Greenbbs]

In my job, we're guaranteed a pretty good salary (we're hospital employees), and the current bonus structure is semi-annual (based on satisfaction, etc). Starting somewhere in the next few months, we're moving from a primarily satisfaction based bonus to a primarily RVU based bonus that will be paid out monthly. We will still get our guarantee salary (that won't change), but if we hit a target RVU amount, we'll get a cut of every RVU that's above and beyond what it requires to pay our salary, plus a portion of the ancillary staff salary. The numbers are yet to be set in stone, but it could be in the range of a few thousand extra bucks a month, if you hit your targets.

 

[97t]

thanks for the info guys.

i'm looking at 2 jobs. one is buy in partnership/ownership and one is not. before i started the process i really wanted a partnership, but as i went through the process this other nonpartnership job presented thats great except for the lack of partnership. Is lack of partnership a deal breaker?

 

[EctopicFetus]

depending on how things are set up partnership also opens up a world of write offs. Paying less in taxes is even more income in your pocket. Just saying..

I will say as mentioned that bonuses are highly variable. in some places it is over 100% of your income. In other places it is a pittance like a few grand. You just have to compare the 2.

Keep in mind if you can write off 100k in expenses thats another 30k in income.

 

[97t]

how would a partner personally have a tax write off advantage? I thought if the group is paying for malpractice, etc, the group gets the write off.

 

[GeneralVeers]

how would a partner personally have a tax write off advantage? I thought if the group is paying for malpractice, etc, the group gets the write off.

It depends on your pay structure. Large groups like EmCare typically make their docs pay for health insurance, and 401K, but cover malpractice.

Other setups as independent contractor you have to pay for everything including malpractice.

I'm lucky enough to be in a group that covers all three.

 

[97t]

so if you are a partner and pay for your own health insurance, etc you could potentially deduct it, but if you are an employee and pay your own health insurance, etc you cant deduct?

 

[EctopicFetus]

so if you are a partner and pay for your own health insurance, etc you could potentially deduct it, but if you are an employee and pay your own health insurance, etc you cant deduct?

Yes. The writeoffs im referring to include things like cars, meals, CME, cell phones, internet etc. Thats where you get some real cash.

 

[Apollyon]

I will say as mentioned that bonuses are highly variable. in some places it is over 100% of your income. In other places it is a pittance like a few grand. You just have to compare the 2.

Keep in mind if you can write off 100k in expenses thats another 30k in income.

Even for a profligate wastrel such as I am, a few grand is not a pittance. I might even extend that and say that, if you have to go to work each day to get paid, it's not a pittance. (That is, if you don't have to go to work to get paid, maybe it is.)

 

[EctopicFetus]

Even for a profligate wastrel such as I am, a few grand is not a pittance. I might even extend that and say that, if you have to go to work each day to get paid, it's not a pittance. (That is, if you don't have to go to work to get paid, maybe it is.)

The difference between a 100k or 50k annual bonus (or more) and getting 3k.. in comparison it is a pittance.. If someone gave me 2k it wouldnt be.. but when comparing the 2 it is..

One job offer I had offered me a $1500 signing bonus.. I looked at the guy like WTF are you kidding me? You would be better served offering me nothing cause when you are talking about a 2-250k job offering a signing bonus or year end bonus of less than 1% is just ******ed.

 

[GeneralVeers]

The difference between a 100k or 50k annual bonus (or more) and getting 3k.. in comparison it is a pittance.. If someone gave me 2k it wouldnt be.. but when comparing the 2 it is..

One job offer I had offered me a $1500 signing bonus.. I looked at the guy like WTF are you kidding me? You would be better served offering me nothing cause when you are talking about a 2-250k job offering a signing bonus or year end bonus of less than 1% is just ******ed.

Did they offer you a free company coffee mug as well?

 

[EctopicFetus]

Did they offer you a free company coffee mug as well?

No I politely told them to shove it after I accepted another offer. I would have preferred a T shirt, i could have at least used it to get my fireplace going.

 

[GeneralVeers]

No I politely told them to shove it after I accepted another offer. I would have preferred a T shirt, i could have at least used it to get my fireplace going.

There was one "nameless" group in Florida that offered me $120/hour and UP TO $8000 in employer-matched 401K contribution, as well as a pyramid-scheme bu-in. I politely refused and took a job at an RVU based company that maxes out my 401K with no matching required.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Veers are you in texas or NV? I cant remember.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Veers are you in texas or NV? I cant remember.

Both, but the company I'm referencing is the one I work for full time in NV.

NV an TX are both very good for EM compensation as they have low cost of living and low taxes.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Both, but the company I'm referencing is the one I work for full time in NV.

NV an TX are both very good for EM compensation as they have low cost of living and low taxes.

Agreed. I would say there are some great jobs in Arizona as well. I have found one I love. In other news.. IMO a bonus under 5k is a joke..

 

[GeneralVeers]

Agreed. I would say there are some great jobs in Arizona as well. I have found one I love. In other news.. IMO a bonus under 5k is a joke..

Yep, it's an insult. A decent bonus should be 15K or more. If you're in a competitive area where recruitment isn't an issue then expect to get no sign-on bonus.

 

[NinerNiner999]

I got a pen once for my year-end bonus. Seriously.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Yep, it's an insult. A decent bonus should be 15K or more. If you're in a competitive area where recruitment isn't an issue then expect to get no sign-on bonus.

Agreed. A bonus here? Ha ha. They interviewed 20 people for 4 jobs at one group in town that was expanding. You think they need to offer a bonus?

 

[spyderdoc]

We generally get no bonus. We are full FFS, so we collect all the money that we get reimbursed after group overhead expenses and billing expense. The only time we will get a "bonus" is if our group has pre-partners that are still paying their buy-in "dues". And no, we are not one of those groups that kick people out before the make partner.....