Borderline, w/ a story, Chances?

[ShepherdBarnabas]

Hello,

My name is Shepherd Barnaby, but you can call me Shep! I'm a senior at a school in Northern VA (pretty easy to figure out which one haha), and I'm hoping to get a gauge as to whether I'd be a good application for medical school.

Major: I attend a teacher's college, my school is VERY education heavy and we produce a lot of Virginia Educators. I am a Biology major with a concentration in Education!
Residency: Virginia
GPA's: 3.65 cumulative GPA, 3.45 science GPA. Also, my Junior/Senior years show upward trend of GPA.
Test Scores: I've taken the MCAT three times. Part of the reason I wanted to post is because I read a post about Multiple MCATs and was a bit confused about it. In June of 2012, after finishing my pre-reqs, I took my first test (20), in utter disbelief at my scores, and an inflated sense of knowledge, took it again a month later (26). Stopped, dropped, and rolled haha. I stopped thinking I was cut out for Pre-med, science grades slipped, but decided I wanted to pursue it. Took it in June of 2014, earned a 36 (12/12/12).
EC's:

• President/Founder of Faith Alliance, we do weekly readings on the Bible, Torah, Qur'an, and other religious texts
• President of Science Educators Society, we organize weekly happy hours and talk about how much we love the students and hate grading
• Senior Judge in Honor Committee, attend weekly sanctions hearings, kind of depressing but a good experience! Definitely wrote my citations correctly...
• Opinions Columnist in the Newspaper, write weekly columns about campus happenings! Fun job.
• Student Representative of Biology Students, had meetings with the Faculty
• Teaching Assistant: Very meaningful position for me. Worked as a TA for 2 years for a Biostatistics course, reason I entered teaching.

Volunteering (Clinical):

• Worked as a PEDS Hospital Volunteer for 2000+ Hours
• Shadowed 1 General Internist (should I shadow more?)

Volunteering (Non-Clinical:

• Worked at a Food Pantry for 400+ Hours
• Volunteer as the Girls' Basketball Coach for the Middle School I teach at
• Volunteer as the Robotics Sponsor at the Middle School I teach at

Research:

• Critical Language Scholar: Earned a CLS from the State Dept to study Arabic in Morocco
• Teaching Research: Wrote about novel teaching method implemented in Courses. Presented at 8 Conferences from Washington State to Alaska. Also published 2nd Author.
• Neurogenomics Research Asst: Worked 2 years as a Neuro RA, gave psych tests to patients before/after protocol delivered
• WFIRM: Summer Research Program at Wake Forest

What am I up to currently/Gap year plans:
I am a Middle School Life Sciences teacher, slated to graduate in Spring, 2015. After which, I'll be attending a summer research program in Maine. I'm hoping to submit an application this June. During my gap year, I'll be teaching, working at my Master's in Education at my alma mater, and working as a TA for Biostatistics.

Questions:

1. I've seen DO programs (CCOM) with average MCAT/GPAs around mine, but I've also seen MD schools (Tulane, NYMC, EVMS) with averages around mine. Confused as to whether I should JUST apply DO or MD as well?
2. Should I put off applying this June, taking a DIY postbacc and applying June 2016?
3. Overall, wondering at my competitiveness at an MD acceptance? DO acceptance?
4. Lastly, also applying for OD admissions during same cycle. Weird, but I enjoy optometry! Shadowed a bit, and like the pace. But, would prefer MD/DO.

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[ShepherdBarnabas]

Also wondering if I'd be considered a borderline applicant or below avg?

 

[darkeon]

Your science gpa is below average for md schools. Mcat is looking real good though so you definitely got a chance at md as well as DO. I like your overall profile. My opinion is to apply this upcoming cycle for both md and do.

I don't think you're a borderline applicant.

 

[Mavs88]

I'd advise taking your name off here if that's your real name!

 

[MDporfavor8888]

i think you're fine to apply in the upcoming cycle to mostly MD schools and some DO schools if you really want to play it safe. your science GPA is on the lower side but your MCAT score, despite taking in 3 times, is good (they will definitely ask you how you made this jump at interviews).

i also think you have pretty good ECs but the only thing that seems to be lacking is shadowing/clinical experience. i don't really think you can see how doctors work/think by being a volunteer at a hospital and you've only shadowed 1 doctor. may be try working as a scribe or shadow as many doctors as you possibly can before the upcoming application cycle. otherwise i think you'll be a pretty competitive applicant as long as you apply very broadly.

 

[ShepherdBarnabas]

Thanks for the replies guys, and yes that's my first and middle name, didn't put my last name. Do adcoms look at SDN posts?

 

[ShepherdBarnabas]

Just finished perusing some of the other What are my chances threads, and was hoping @johnamo, @Goro, & @gyngyn think?

I've been told by my own pre-med committee advisor that I am borderline and that I should consider only applying DO to save money. But I'd like to pursue MD, so I'm considering leaving teaching for a year and entering an SMP.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

You rang?

Just curious, why are you interested in medicine? You seem quite passionate about education and various other things but I'm not really seeing an equal passion for medicine.

I think you would be fine to apply this June. You're moderately competitive for MD admissions as long as you can sell your interest in medicine, and you'd be a shoo-in for nearly any DO school. I would apply broadly to lower-tier MD schools and selective to any DO schools you're particularly interested in (CCOM/AZCOM are anomalies when it comes to average MCAT scores -- most are significantly lower).

As for the OD, I'm not so sure about that... are you really interested in the eye? If so, you may want to keep open the possibility of becoming an ophthalmologist. It's really a lifestyle choice -- optometry education is less rigorous but the eventual scope (and salary ceiling) is pretty narrow.

 

[ShepherdBarnabas]

You rang?

Just curious, why are you interested in medicine? You seem quite passionate about education and various other things but I'm not really seeing an equal passion for medicine.

I think you would be fine to apply this June. You're moderately competitive for MD admissions as long as you can sell your interest in medicine, and you'd be a shoo-in for nearly any DO school. I would apply broadly to lower-tier MD schools and selective to any DO schools you're particularly interested in (CCOM/AZCOM are anomalies when it comes to average MCAT scores -- most are significantly lower).

As for the OD, I'm not so sure about that... are you really interested in the eye? If so, you may want to keep open the possibility of becoming an ophthalmologist. It's really a lifestyle choice -- optometry education is less rigorous but the eventual scope (and salary ceiling) is pretty narrow.

I've always been interested in Medicine, ever since I was a kid. Education...was kind of a cop out. I'm embarrased to admit it, but I picked it up after I didn't initially do well on the MCAT (my fault, I was lazy in my prep), and pushed the thought of Medicine away. But, slowly I became a more "empowered" student, and after having done well on my 2nd mcat, I know I want to be a doctor. Being a teacher is WONDERFUL for...1 year, 2 years, 5 years maybe. But after that, I think all teachers start to hate themselves a little bit, or at least the job. I don't want to feel dejected in my life. I want to do something challenging.

Yeah being an Opthamologist is the dream. That's primarily why I want to pursue an MD school.

I'm interested to find out whether or not you consider me borderline for MD? I'd really much much prefer an MD school over a DO one. Unfortunately my state isn't too IS happy

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks for the replies guys, and yes that's my first and middle name, didn't put my last name. Do adcoms look at SDN posts?

You bet.
All you can do is give an MD application a try.
It's impossible to guess how your MCAT scores will be interpreted. We are supposed to average but everyone that sees them will have a different opinion.
At my school you would be seen as too risky.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I've always been interested in Medicine, ever since I was a kid. Education...was kind of a cop out. I'm embarrased to admit it, but I picked it up after I didn't initially do well on the MCAT (my fault, I was lazy in my prep), and pushed the thought of Medicine away. But, slowly I became a more "empowered" student, and after having done well on my 2nd mcat, I know I want to be a doctor. Being a teacher is WONDERFUL for...1 year, 2 years, 5 years maybe. But after that, I think all teachers start to hate themselves a little bit, or at least the job. I don't want to feel dejected in my life. I want to do something challenging.

Yeah being an Opthamologist is the dream. That's primarily why I want to pursue an MD school.

I'm interested to find out whether or not you consider me borderline for MD? I'd really much much prefer an MD school over a DO one. Unfortunately my state isn't too IS happy

A bit borderline, but not to the point where I would say to forget MD schools. As @gyngyn mentioned, MCAT scores can be approached in a variety of ways. Some schools say they average, some say they only consider the most recent score, and some say they just weigh the most recent score most heavily. However, everyone sees all three of your scores so it's really a judgement call on an individual level. Having a 20 on your record might set off enough of an alarm bell for someone to think "well, he's academically capable in the long run, but can he learn information at the pace necessary for medical school? And what does this 20 mean about his judgment capabilities?"

 

[ShepherdBarnabas]

You bet.
All you can do is give an MD application a try.
It's impossible to guess how your MCAT scores will be interpreted. We are supposed to average but everyone that sees them will have a different opinion.
At my school you would be seen as too much risk.

Would you say your school is a mid to low tier? That's what I'm shooting for. Aside from Duke, UVA, and Wake I don't have any top 50 on my list.

 

[gyngyn]

Would you say your school is a mid to low tier? That's what I'm shooting for. Aside from Duke, UVA, and Wake I don't have any top 50 on my list.

I'm in CA.

 

[NeuResurgens]

You're not borderline - you're looking like a pretty good applicant. You have a wide array of experiences and have shown commitment to them, especially teaching, which comes with a lot of traits which are valuable in a physician. Even though you took the MCAT multiple times, you improved every time and earned a score in the 90th percentile at the end. GPA is a bit weaker but I think your other parts of the application more than outweigh it. Definitely apply to MD schools with DO schools of your choosing as well. Be prepared to explain your initially low MCAT scores and GPA, as well as why you improved and what you did, etc. Also, be able to explain why you really, really want medicine, as that's probably the biggest thing they'll question.

 

[Goro]

Even witht he three MCATs, I think you're competitive for MD schools. But it's time for you to do your homework and find out what schools take the most recent or best score, as opposed to those that average scores, like mine. With a 27, you're fine for any DO school.

I suggest for MD schools, start with every school in VA, plus those in WV.

For DO schools, you have VCOM and then work outwards. I can't recommend LUCOM.

Hello,

My name is Shepherd Barnaby, but you can call me Shep! I'm a senior at a school in Northern VA (pretty easy to figure out which one haha), and I'm hoping to get a gauge as to whether I'd be a good application for medical school.

Major: I attend a teacher's college, my school is VERY education heavy and we produce a lot of Virginia Educators. I am a Biology major with a concentration in Education!
Residency: Virginia
GPA's: 3.65 cumulative GPA, 3.45 science GPA. Also, my Junior/Senior years show upward trend of GPA.
Test Scores: I've taken the MCAT three times. Part of the reason I wanted to post is because I read a post about Multiple MCATs and was a bit confused about it. In June of 2012, after finishing my pre-reqs, I took my first test (20), in utter disbelief at my scores, and an inflated sense of knowledge, took it again a month later (26). Stopped, dropped, and rolled haha. I stopped thinking I was cut out for Pre-med, science grades slipped, but decided I wanted to pursue it. Took it in June of 2014, earned a 36 (12/12/12).
EC's:

• President/Founder of Faith Alliance, we do weekly readings on the Bible, Torah, Qur'an, and other religious texts
• President of Science Educators Society, we organize weekly happy hours and talk about how much we love the students and hate grading
• Senior Judge in Honor Committee, attend weekly sanctions hearings, kind of depressing but a good experience! Definitely wrote my citations correctly...
• Opinions Columnist in the Newspaper, write weekly columns about campus happenings! Fun job.
• Student Representative of Biology Students, had meetings with the Faculty
• Teaching Assistant: Very meaningful position for me. Worked as a TA for 2 years for a Biostatistics course, reason I entered teaching.

Volunteering (Clinical):

• Worked as a PEDS Hospital Volunteer for 2000+ Hours
• Shadowed 1 General Internist (should I shadow more?)

Volunteering (Non-Clinical:

• Worked at a Food Pantry for 400+ Hours
• Volunteer as the Girls' Basketball Coach for the Middle School I teach at
• Volunteer as the Robotics Sponsor at the Middle School I teach at

Research:

• Critical Language Scholar: Earned a CLS from the State Dept to study Arabic in Morocco
• Teaching Research: Wrote about novel teaching method implemented in Courses. Presented at 8 Conferences from Washington State to Alaska. Also published 2nd Author.
• Neurogenomics Research Asst: Worked 2 years as a Neuro RA, gave psych tests to patients before/after protocol delivered
• WFIRM: Summer Research Program at Wake Forest

What am I up to currently/Gap year plans:
I am a Middle School Life Sciences teacher, slated to graduate in Spring, 2015. After which, I'll be attending a summer research program in Maine. I'm hoping to submit an application this June. During my gap year, I'll be teaching, working at my Master's in Education at my alma mater, and working as a TA for Biostatistics.

Questions:

1. I've seen DO programs (CCOM) with average MCAT/GPAs around mine, but I've also seen MD schools (Tulane, NYMC, EVMS) with averages around mine. Confused as to whether I should JUST apply DO or MD as well?
2. Should I put off applying this June, taking a DIY postbacc and applying June 2016?
3. Overall, wondering at my competitiveness at an MD acceptance? DO acceptance?
4. Lastly, also applying for OD admissions during same cycle. Weird, but I enjoy optometry! Shadowed a bit, and like the pace. But, would prefer MD/DO.

 

[ShepherdBarnabas]

Even witht he three MCATs, I think you're competitive for MD schools. But it's time for you to do your homework and find out what schools take the most recent or best score, as opposed to those that average scores, like mine. With a 27, you're fine for any DO school.

I suggest for MD schools, start with every school in VA, plus those in WV.

For DO schools, you have VCOM and then work outwards. I can't recommend LUCOM.

My #1 DO school is UNECOM, but are the state ties stringent? Also, I am definitely applying to VCOM, and was considering LUCOM as well, could you elaborate on why you don't recommend it.

And thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm just going to apply and pray I get in somewhere so that someday I can call myself a doc! And wear scrubs..that'd be cool too haha. (jokes....patient care is #1....I understand...haha).

 

[SpartanWolverine]

My #1 DO school is UNECOM, but are the state ties stringent? Also, I am definitely applying to VCOM, and was considering LUCOM as well, could you elaborate on why you don't recommend it.

And thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm just going to apply and pray I get in somewhere so that someday I can call myself a doc! And wear scrubs..that'd be cool too haha. (jokes....patient care is #1....I understand...haha).

UNE is a great school that produces excellent physicians, so I highly recommend it. They do have a bias towards the northeast and those who have ties to Maine... but with your numbers you certainly have a very good chance.

The major issue many people have with LUCOM is sociopolitical in nature. Another issue is the unknowns surrounding clinical education and eventual ability to match physicians in decent residencies. Because you're competitive for top DO schools, I would also not recommend applying there.

With a broad MD application and a couple of DO schools, I don't see why you would have any problem getting in somewhere great.

 

[Goro]

Why NOT LUCOM?
I have a profound distaste for the politics of their parent organization; they’re disingenuous about whether their strict lifestyle rules apply to medical students (they do); and their Faculty make blatant attempts to twist facts to match their theology. Some of the screw-ups they're making (losing rotation sites; over-filling the 1st class) give the appearance that they don’t know what they're doing.

Also, I am definitely applying to VCOM, and was considering LUCOM as well, could you elaborate on why you don't recommend it.

 

[ShepherdBarnabas]

Why NOT LUCOM?
I have a profound distaste for the politics of their parent organization; they’re disingenuous about whether their strict lifestyle rules apply to medical students (they do); and their Faculty make blatant attempts to twist facts to match their theology. Some of the screw-ups they're making (losing rotation sites; over-filling the 1st class) give the appearance that they don’t know what they're doing.

Also, I am definitely applying to VCOM, and was considering LUCOM as well, could you elaborate on why you don't recommend it.

Oh it's Liberty? Yeah, Virginians seem to have a distaste for that Ugrad too. I don't why, but for some reason I thought it was Lynchburg.

Also, @Goro I heard a new Medical College is opening called King's College in VA, would you recommend applying to a brand new school?

I hope EVMS/VTC shows me some love!

 

[Goro]

I would recommend a new school if you're go-getter by nature and don't mind being a pioneer. Some people like doing this. The downside of a new program is that the following things are unknown: quality of rotations, (and affiliations with hospitals can drop at a moment's notice), how well they prepare you for boards, curriculum style and quality (it takes time to figure out what you're doing), etc.

Also, when a school say's they're opening, I tend not to believe it until they actually start interviewing. And take a look at this:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/politic...cle_358ab376-ba38-59e5-a86b-d010dd2fe30e.html

Oh it's Liberty? Yeah, Virginians seem to have a distaste for that Ugrad too. I don't why, but for some reason I thought it was Lynchburg.

Also, @Goro I heard a new Medical College is opening called King's College in VA, would you recommend applying to a brand new school?

I hope EVMS/VTC shows me some love!

 

[Anthonyweiner]

Why NOT LUCOM?
I have a profound distaste for the politics of their parent organization; they’re disingenuous about whether their strict lifestyle rules apply to medical students (they do); and their Faculty make blatant attempts to twist facts to match their theology. Some of the screw-ups they're making (losing rotation sites; over-filling the 1st class) give the appearance that they don’t know what they're doing.

Also, I am definitely applying to VCOM, and was considering LUCOM as well, could you elaborate on why you don't recommend it.

Hi Goro. I don't know enough to speak about the politics of the Liberty undergrad campus but I have to correct you on the supposed strict lifestyle rules at LUCOM. We have our own code of conduct and student handbook. There is nothing in them that I haven't encountered at many of the other institutions I've attended. Was there something in particular that worries you? I would be happy to look it up and post it here or in a PM if you prefer. You are very well respected around here and your advice has helped me more than once. Just want to make sure you have the facts!

 

[Goro]

My complaints are with the parent body, just as I can't recommend Penn State anymore since their parent body protected a child molester for > 10 years.

I've heard things about the way things are being run at LUCOM from some of your classmates to suggest the Faculty and Adminsitration have no clue as to what they're doing, but there are always two sides to every story.

Hi Goro. I don't know enough to speak about the politics of the Liberty undergrad campus but I have to correct you on the supposed strict lifestyle rules at LUCOM. We have our own code of conduct and student handbook. There is nothing in them that I haven't encountered at many of the other institutions I've attended. Was there something in particular that worries you? I would be happy to look it up and post it here or in a PM if you prefer. You are very well respected around here and your advice has helped me more than once. Just want to make sure you have the facts!

 

[Anthonyweiner]

My complaints are with the parent body, just as I can't recommend Penn State anymore since their parent body protected a child molester for > 10 years.

I've heard things about the way things are being run at LUCOM from some of your classmates to suggest the Faculty and Administration have no clue as to what they're doing, but there are always two sides to every story.

Fair enough! I'm sure you know that our dean and many professors come from other DO and MD schools. They know what they are doing (in that, they are professionals in their field) but it would be wrong of me to say that this year has not had its road bumps. I think its more to do with the fact that LUCOM and its curriculum are new and there are going to be hiccups with any inaugural class. Despite the minor problems, we are learning, having a great time doing so, and already having a positive effect in our community. Anyway, I hope one day we can change your mind!