Brown or University of North Dakota for best chances at a Med School Acceptance?

[Missy9881]

Hello all! So I was recently accepted to my dream school, Brown University. I am 100% sure that no matter what school I attend, I will go pre-med. My other option is University of North Dakota.

I am having trouble deciding which to attend. Both schools have their ups & downs. Brown has a much smaller faculty to student ratio, higher average MCAT scores and GPAs than UND. However, I come from a small town in North Dakota, and although accepted to Brown, I am not sure if I am yet up to par with the other pre-med students at Brown. So my GPA could actually be much less than the average at Brown. In this case, UND might be safer since it is a state school. My GPA could be higher. But, I am sure Brown would prepare me for the MCAT much more than UND.

My main concern is being a competitive student for a GOOD medical school.

Also, my parents refused to apply for financial aid at Brown. So my tuition at Brown is WAYYY more expensive than UND. I would end up with over $200,000 in student loans just after my undergrad, while at UND I would hardly have any.

Brown has the major I want, cognitive neuroscience, where UND does not. However, I am willing to major in something else such as Psychology or Anthropology.

Can you please tell me your thoughts and give me some advice? Thank you

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[Mad Jack]

Brown.

 

[pinstriped1992]

Brown. They have a very easy grading policy. Don't worry about GPA, just have to work hard. As for MCAT, thats really down to how well YOU study.

 

[Goro]

At Brown, 35% of the matriculants are Brown UG grads.
AT U ND, it's the same.

Hello all! So I was recently accepted to my dream school, Brown University. I am 100% sure that no matter what school I attend, I will go pre-med. My other option is University of North Dakota.

I am having trouble deciding which to attend. Both schools have their ups & downs. Brown has a much smaller faculty to student ratio, higher average MCAT scores and GPAs than UND. However, I come from a small town in North Dakota, and although accepted to Brown, I am not sure if I am yet up to par with the other pre-med students at Brown. So my GPA could actually be much less than the average at Brown. In this case, UND might be safer since it is a state school. My GPA could be higher. But, I am sure Brown would prepare me for the MCAT much more than UND.

My main concern is being a competitive student for a GOOD medical school.

Also, my parents refused to apply for financial aid at Brown. So my tuition at Brown is WAYYY more expensive than UND.

Brown has the major I want, cognitive neuroscience, where UND does not. However, I am willing to major in something else such as Psychology or Anthropology.

Can you please tell me your thoughts and give me some advice? Thank you

 

[Missy9881]

I see. I am not sure if I will want to attend UND Medical School when it comes time to applying to those schools. On Brown's website, it stated that 85% of their pre-med students were accepted to Brown Medical School (2013) and 44% were accepted elsewhere nationally. http://brown.edu/academics/college/advising/health-careers/medical-admission-data-snapshot
Is it just me, or are these statistics pretty good? UND has no information like this that I could find.

 

[breakintheroof]

At Brown, 35% of the matriculants are Brown UG grads.
AT U ND, it's the same.

For Brown, the overwhelming majority of those are through the PLME (BS/MD) program, which is not the route OP is considering. By report, not many Brown undergrads matriculate at the medical school through the regular application pathway.

That said, Brown is the superior choice. (Edit for those reading later: Superior on the narrow question of which gives OP the better chance of success in applying to medical school, pending more information about finances. Not superior if paying the sticker price.)

But I'm not seeing some of the actual important things in the OP...@Missy9881 why didn't your parents apply for aid at Brown? Is it because they can afford to pay for it, or because they don't want you to go there?

Also, do you want to go to college in a state that is an icy uncivilized backwater where nothing ever happens, or stay in North Dakota? (Just kidding, Rhode Islanders!) But really, where do you want to go to college?

 

[Missy9881]

Oh my goodness, Brown is my dream school. If it were up to me, I would go there. Unfortunately, my parents do not want me to, thus they did not want to apply for financial aid. Probably so they would have an excuse to keep me from going. :/ I am trying to figure out how I would be able to pay for school there.

 

[sephora89]

OP will be 200k in debt after undergrad. For that reason alone, I would pick UND.

But if you're okay with taking out loans, I would pick Brown.

 

[sephora89]

It's been awhile since I've applied to undergraduate schools…but I think it's still possible to apply for financial aid after being accepted, no?

 

[breakintheroof]

Oh my goodness, Brown is my dream school. If it were up to me, I would go there. Unfortunately, my parents do not want me to, thus they did not want to apply for financial aid. Probably so they would have an excuse to keep me from going. :/ I am trying to figure out how I would be able to pay for school there.

I am sorry to hear that. I don't know your parents or their reasoning, but I wish they would help support your dream.

I recommend reaching out to the Brown financial aid office immediately to talk about your situation.

Edit: Typo.

 

[Missy9881]

It's been awhile since I've applied to undergraduate schools…but I think it's still possible to apply for financial aid after being accepted, no?

I believe I could still apply for financial aid. However, my parents are set in stone that they will not apply. I am currently buying a few lottery tickets in hopes that I can win a mega-jackpot and pay for school.

 

[Missy9881]

I am sorry to hear that. I don't know your parents or their reasoning, but I wish they would help support your dream.

I recommending reaching out to the Brown financial aid office immediately to talk about your situation.

That is a good idea. I will try!

 

[C@lidoc]

With the loans take UND. Brown is not worth 200k

 

[sephora89]

Best of luck OP! No matter where you end up, as long as you do well in school and on the MCAT and show active involvement in a few ECs and clinical activities, I think you'll still have a shot of getting into a great medical school.

 

[Doug Underhill]

UND has one of the lowest MCAT stats of any MD school in the country, with a 29 being the median for matriculants. This makes it an accessible school to get into. Of course, you have to live in North Dakota.

 

[Flashfan]

If your parents refuse to apply for financial aid at Brown it will be impossible for you to borrow that much money without them co-signing. You are limited to the amount that you can get from Federal loans. Do you have someone willing to co-sign?

 

[tiedyeddog]

OP I would seriously not go to ANY undergrad for 200K. That is way too much money, especially when you consider that is BEFORE medical school! I know it seems like a far, far ways away but you will have to pay that money back eventually....

One of the above posters had a great question. If your parents didn't allow you to apply for aid will they cosign? If not, who will?

 

[mbeus]

I would definitely go to UND. It absolutely does not matter where you do your undergrad, as long as you do well in classes. It is completely ridiculous to take out that much money in loans for an undergraduate degree.

 

[mehc012]

Wait, why do the parents have to apply for finaid? Just put their info down and call it good. Unless they're actively hiding their tax files from you
I don't remember my mother being involved in any of my finaid applications. In fact, she blatantly said that if I was the one who wanted to go to college, I should be the one doing the obnoxious forms. Would it be illegal for OP to just put their info down when s/he is asked for it? They're going to have to get the information to submit FAFSA for UND anyway, so it's basically just another small step to send it to Brown.

*Sorry if this is a stupid or abnormal question, I had full access to my mother's bank accounts, SSN, and tax info starting early in HS, so I'm not entirely certain what the standard setup or rules are.

 

[Amarillo]

Go to the school where you think you can [and will] be most successful. Factor in cost - consider whether being more or less in debt at the end of your undergraduate may impact your performance, and then make your own decision. My recommendation would not be to go to UND solely because it is your parent's preference and it is cheaper - that type of situation breeds resentment, which can certainly impact your undergraduate performance (and thus, your chances at getting into medical school). If you choose UND, make sure it is your own decision.

 

[Amarillo]

Wait, why do the parents have to apply for finaid? Just put their info down and call it good. Unless they're actively hiding their tax files from you
I don't remember my mother being involved in any of my finaid applications. In fact, she blatantly said that if I was the one who wanted to go to college, I should be the one doing the obnoxious forms. Would it be illegal for OP to just put their info down when s/he is asked for it?

*Sorry if this is a stupid or abnormal question, I had full access to my mother's bank accounts, SSN, and tax info starting early in HS, so I'm not entirely certain what the standard setup or rules are.

Not if illegal for OP to complete their information, but it can be tricky to get access to all necessary information. I can assure you I did not have access to all necessary documentation, and it would've been up to my parents to complete paperwork (or assist) for financial aid.

 

[mehc012]

Not if illegal for OP to complete their information, but it can be tricky to get access to all necessary information. I can assure you I did not have access to all necessary documentation, and it would've been up to my parents to complete paperwork (or assist) for financial aid.

But won't OP have to get all of that info anyway for UND? I don't recall much variation between schools on finaid paperwork. Most just wanted FAFSA, no? Can't OP just login and add Brown to the school list for FAFSA submission?

 

[LoveIR]

If you want to stay in ND it completely makes sense to do undergrad and med school and then I guess residency there, saving a significant amount of money along the way.

No school will really prepare you for the MCAT; you have to study on your own or take a review course.

All US MD schools are good, including ND.

200K is crazy for undergrad. You will probably owe that much (or more) from med school alone.

 

[mehc012]

It's only a $200k difference if OP never gets finaid information to Brown. If they do, we don't know what the actual cost difference would be.

Basically, if it's not illegal, my play is to do whatever you have to to submit the finaid info you need for Brown. Your parents are already burning the bridge; it's 100% not acceptable to try and force your adult (or near-adult) child's hand like this when they are making decisions for their future. If they don't want to give you money, then fine...they wouldn't have anyway. This isn't them trying to protect their assets or even saying "hey, you are on your own now." It's them trying to control your life in inappropriate ways which don't even benefit them. You have nothing to lose from trying to get the info you need to/from Brown so that you can make a more educated decision.

Either get their tax info so you can fill the forms out yourself (odds are it's in the house somewhere), wait for them to give it to you for UND and then simply add Brown to the school list on FAFSA after the fact, or whatever you need to do. If they insist on filling FAFSA out for you, get the password to it the next time they leave their phone/computer unattended and logged in (yay email resets). They would have to take some pretty stringent measures to completely go over your head on this and leave you in the dark for one school, but not the other. In all likelihood you can get what you need, and if they put in enough effort to actually block you on this, perhaps the extreme measures they'd have to go to to pull that off will clue them in on how ridiculous they've been.

 

[mikil100]

Hello all! So I was recently accepted to my dream school, Brown University. I am 100% sure that no matter what school I attend, I will go pre-med. My other option is University of North Dakota.

I am having trouble deciding which to attend. Both schools have their ups & downs. Brown has a much smaller faculty to student ratio, higher average MCAT scores and GPAs than UND. However, I come from a small town in North Dakota, and although accepted to Brown, I am not sure if I am yet up to par with the other pre-med students at Brown. So my GPA could actually be much less than the average at Brown. In this case, UND might be safer since it is a state school. My GPA could be higher. But, I am sure Brown would prepare me for the MCAT much more than UND.

My main concern is being a competitive student for a GOOD medical school.

Also, my parents refused to apply for financial aid at Brown. So my tuition at Brown is WAYYY more expensive than UND. I would end up with over $200,000 in student loans just after my undergrad, while at UND I would hardly have any.

Brown has the major I want, cognitive neuroscience, where UND does not. However, I am willing to major in something else such as Psychology or Anthropology.

Can you please tell me your thoughts and give me some advice? Thank you

A degree is a degree.

200k debt is 200k debt

Choose UND.
When you are an attending working 60 hours a week paying to pay off your medical school loans, supporting a family, and a mortgage, you will be happy you don't have another 200k (plus whatever interest accumulated in addition).

 

[darklabel]

Try everything you can to lower that ridiculous amount of 200k for just undergrad. Depending where you go to med school it can potentially balloon to over 500k or more which is absurd.

If Brown doesn't budge, then just go to UND and don't look back. Your GPA should be your #1 concern and while a name like Brown will help, it is definitely not worth 200k and you can still get into plenty of great schools from UND.

 

[justadream]

Without FA, it's much more like a 250k total cost.

Is your family income <180k? If not, you don't receive much (if any) aid but you should talk to the FA office asap.

 

[einsteinm]

Go wherever you will be happy. You can only have the UG experience once in your life. Also, either school will enable you to go to med school. If 200k is a lot of money and you wouldn't be happy taking out the loans, then go to UND.

Just ask yourself how you will feel about your decision 1 month, 1 year, and 10 years from now.

 

[WingedOx]

200k AND you have to consider the fact that when you want to come home (and you will), your travel costs are going to be nuts.

In hindsight, I'm quite glad my parents laughed in my face when I said I wanted to go to a school whose cost of attendance was about that much (adjusted for inflation since 2002). My family could have paid it, but they were smart enough not to.

/not to say I wasn't pissed about it as an 18 year old kid

 

[mehc012]

200k AND you have to consider the fact that when you want to come home (and you will), your travel costs are going to be nuts.

In hindsight, I'm quite glad my parents laughed in my face when I said I wanted to go to a school whose cost of attendance was about that much (adjusted for inflation since 2002). My family could have paid it, but they were smart enough not to.

/not to say I wasn't pissed about it as an 18 year old kid

His parents aren't scoffing at the COA. His parents are CAUSING the high COA by not submitting their info so that finaid can be calculated.
Perhaps Brown would still be ridiculously expensive for OP, but we don't know that yet.

 

[caffeinemia]

His parents aren't scoffing at the COA. His parents are CAUSING the high COA by not submitting their info so that finaid can be calculated.
Perhaps Brown would still be ridiculously expensive for OP, but we don't know that yet.

This is becoming another Ivy vs non-Ivy things. We all have our own biases.

Perhaps Robert Burns could give you some insight in his most famous line: The best-laid plans of mice and men / Often go awry.

Keeping your sights trained on the destination may make you miss the beautiful journey.

 

[justadream]

This is becoming another Ivy vs non-Ivy things. We all have our own biases.

Perhaps Robert Burns could give you some insight in his most famous line: The best-laid plans of mice and men / Often go awry.

Keeping your sights trained on the destination may make you miss the beautiful journey.

Lol I've noticed this too but it is that time of the year.

 

[mehc012]

This is becoming another Ivy vs non-Ivy things. We all have our own biases.

Perhaps Robert Burns could give you some insight in his most famous line: The best-laid plans of mice and men / Often go awry.

Keeping your sights trained on the destination may make you miss the beautiful journey.

Yeah I know it is...I was hoping to actually discuss the issue at hand, rather than rehash that whole topic, but I suppose after almost 3yrs on this site, that sort of wishful thinking is more a sign of stupidity on my part than informed optimism

 

[WingedOx]

His parents aren't scoffing at the COA. His parents are CAUSING the high COA by not submitting their info so that finaid can be calculated.
Perhaps Brown would still be ridiculously expensive for OP, but we don't know that yet.

...which unfortunately is a symptom of a bigger problem. While the reasons for OP's parents not wanting him/her to go to the East Coast may or may not be rational, they exist, and family discord doesn't always make for a great college academic experience, regardless of how far away you can get from your parents.

 

[jeghaber]

At Brown, 35% of the matriculants are Brown UG grads.
AT U ND, it's the same.

@Goro, I've seen you post similar misinformation time and time again. Brown undergrads who matriculate at Brown's med school are overwhelmingly from the PLME program, which you have to apply for as a high school senior. In fact, very few non-PLME Brown undergrads matriculate at Alpert and often have a difficult time even convincing the committee they would attend if accepted. This means that Brown undergrads do NOT have any kind of advantage in applying to the med school. To throw in some numbers, Brown's website shows that between 2005-2009, only 10 non-PLME Brown undergrads matriculated at Alpert. While it may technically be true that, as you say so often, "Brown favors its undergrads," since they have PLME matriculants, it is certainly not an accurate reflection of reality for both non-Brown applicants that the committee seeks to diversify the rest of their class and for Brown applicants who may have a difficult time convincing the committee their interest is genuine.

I see. I am not sure if I will want to attend UND Medical School when it comes time to applying to those schools. On Brown's website, it stated that 85% of their pre-med students were accepted to Brown Medical School (2013) and 44% were accepted elsewhere nationally. http://brown.edu/academics/college/advising/health-careers/medical-admission-data-snapshot
Is it just me, or are these statistics pretty good? UND has no information like this that I could find.

The 85% statistic refers to percent of Brown undergrads who are successful in gaining acceptance to any medical school, not to Brown's medical school. The 44% statistic is the national average for applicants who are successful in a gaining acceptance to any medical school. It is there to try to show that Brown undergrads are more "successful" than the average applicant.

 

[mehc012]

...which unfortunately is a symptom of a bigger problem. While the reasons for OP's parents not wanting him/her to go to the East Coast may or may not be rational, they exist, and family discord doesn't always make for a great college academic experience, regardless of how far away you can get from your parents.

If my parents tried to FORCE me into going to the college they chose, when the decision had no financial impact for them (and when they were preventing me from learning the potential financial impact on myself)...you had better bet there would be family discord. There'd be 85 metric craptons of family discord. That is so far out of line, and so gorram irrational that we could live next door to each other and I'd make sure I rarely saw them.

The family is the one creating the discord. That's what I meant when I said that they'd burnt that bridge already. OP's reaction at this point is not starting the fire, it's figuring out how to navigate one without getting burned too badly.

 

[Flashfan]

Filling out financial aid forms without the parent's permission may be fine the first year, but what happens when the next year comes around and the folks still refuse to give him the information? I just don't understand why parents allow kids to apply to schools only to say no when they get in. It is one thing to say that they can't afford it after the FA packages come in, but making it impossible to compare packages is just wrong. Did your parents tell you from the beginning that they would only pay of ND and you applied anyway?

 

[DokterMom]

Oh my goodness, Brown is my dream school. If it were up to me, I would go there. Unfortunately, my parents do not want me to, thus they did not want to apply for financial aid. Probably so they would have an excuse to keep me from going. :/ I am trying to figure out how I would be able to pay for school there.

I am sorry to hear that. I don't know your parents or their reasoning, but I wish they would help support your dream.

I recommending reaching out to the Brown financial aid office immediately to talk about your situation.

For these reasons, absolutely call the financial aid office ASAP and spell out your situation. Ask them for their advice.

Wait, why do the parents have to apply for finaid? Just put their info down and call it good. Unless they're actively hiding their tax files from you
I don't remember my mother being involved in any of my finaid applications. In fact, she blatantly said that if I was the one who wanted to go to college, I should be the one doing the obnoxious forms. Would it be illegal for OP to just put their info down when s/he is asked for it? They're going to have to get the information to submit FAFSA for UND anyway, so it's basically just another small step to send it to Brown.

*Sorry if this is a stupid or abnormal question, I had full access to my mother's bank accounts, SSN, and tax info starting early in HS, so I'm not entirely certain what the standard setup or rules are.

Filling our the FAFSA is not required to attend college; it's only required to qualify for financial aid. For many people, this is one and the same, but legally the two are separate.

Since your parents are pulling a 'control maneuver', you may need to counter with an 'independence maneuver' -- such as arranging to move to Providence, perhaps defer admission for a year (or more) so you can establish yourself as an independent adult, and living on the cheap away from home.

But before you do the whole 'leave home' thing, or even spend too much time day-dreaming about it, do consider your parents' perspective. Make sure you are ready to live that far from home (not everyone is at 18), and that you have accurately gauged your parents' motivation. That it is controlling versus what they genuinely consider best for you.

 

[mehc012]

Filling our the FAFSA is not required to attend college; it's only required to qualify for financial aid. For many people, this is one and the same, but legally the two are separate.

Right, I get that, but for OP it seems to be one and the same ($200k debt!)

But before you do the whole 'leave home' thing, or even spend too much time day-dreaming about it, do consider your parents' perspective. Make sure you are ready to live that far from home (not everyone is at 18), and that you have accurately gauged your parents' motivation. That it is controlling versus what they genuinely consider best for you.

Regardless of whether they genuinely think staying home is best for him/her, the parents are being controlling. Most overly controlling parents do frame it as 'we just want what is best for you', but that doesn't make their actions right.

 

[breakintheroof]

But before you do the whole 'leave home' thing, or even spend too much time day-dreaming about it, do consider your parents' perspective. Make sure you are ready to live that far from home (not everyone is at 18), and that you have accurately gauged your parents' motivation. That it is controlling versus what they genuinely consider best for you.

Yes. There is a lot of missing information about perhaps the most important issue here: OP's relationship with her parents. Which makes sense, as it would be hard for us to provide advice on such a personal topic, even if we knew more.

@Missy9881, you can become a successful medical school applicant, and go on to become an excellent physician, from UND or Brown or wherever else. I'm rooting for you to get a chance to go to your dream undergrad, of course. Good luck.

 

[mehc012]

Yes. There is a lot of missing information about perhaps the most important issue here: OP's relationship with her parents. Which makes sense, as it would be hard for us to provide advice on such a personal topic, even if we knew more.

@Missy9881, you can become a successful medical school applicant, and an excellent physician, at UND or Brown or wherever else. I'm rooting for you to get a chance to go to your dream undergrad, of course. Good luck.

Nope. The parents are being controlling and are deliberately obstructing their kid from even calculating the relative costs of choosing their own educational path. That says all I need to know about the relationship for this particular, narrow, question. The next move is to get the info OP needs for an informed decision, regardless of the parents' detrimental, selfish bullcrap.

 

[Goro]

Tell it to MSAR Online, which doesn't distinguish between the programs.

When 35% of any pool of matriculants comes from one source, it's significantly cuts the odds for applicants outside that pool. Thus, I cannot be comfortable recommending Brown.

@Goro, I've seen you post similar misinformation time and time again. Brown undergrads who matriculate at Brown's med school are overwhelmingly from the PLME program, which you have to apply for as a high school senior. In fact, very few non-PLME Brown undergrads matriculate at Alpert and often have a difficult time even convincing the committee they would attend if accepted. This means that Brown undergrads do NOT have any kind of advantage in applying to the med school. To throw in some numbers, Brown's website shows that between 2005-2009, only 10 non-PLME Brown undergrads matriculated at Alpert. While it may technically be true that, as you say so often, "Brown favors its undergrads," since they have PLME matriculants, it is certainly not an accurate reflection of reality for both non-Brown applicants that the committee seeks to diversify the rest of their class and for Brown applicants who may have a difficult time convincing the committee their interest is genuine.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Tell it to MSAR Online, which doesn't distinguish between the programs.

When 35% of any pool of matriculants comes from one source, it's significantly cuts the odds for applicants outside that pool. Thus, I cannot be comfortable recommending Brown.

If you want a different reason to not recommend them that is based in MSAR metrics, Brown only interviews about 2.9% of their applicant pool which is astoundingly low.

 

[dechristine]

Nope. The parents are being controlling and are deliberately obstructing their kid from even calculating the relative costs of choosing their own educational path. That says all I need to know about the relationship for this particular, narrow, question. The next move is to get the info OP needs for an informed decision, regardless of the parents' detrimental, selfish bullcrap.

There is much more to life than the undergraduate institution that one attends. I agree with you that the parents are being controlling, but I also think that your vitriol toward them is unwarranted. I have been in the same position before and, although I was very unhappy with my parent's decision to make me go to a school that was not my top choice, they also had good reason to (a.k.a. even after emptying out their retirement funds and savings, they could only pay for 2 years of education at that university). It didn't mean that my parents didn't love me or want the best for me. They simply couldn't afford it. I personally do not think that any undergraduate degree is worth $200,000, especially for a shot in a field in which most people who make it through warn others to look at every other possible option that they would be happy doing before going down the same path.

OP, I'm very sorry for your situation. :/ I have definitely been in the same situation and it sucks. Money problems suck, the cost of college tuition sucks, and controlling parents suck. Life is what you make of it. I think that you can do well in whichever path you ultimately choose (or get pushed down upon), and I think that if you really want to get into medical school, the amount of work you put in will overshadow whatever statistics about how many premeds from your school matriculate into a medical school. Instead of relying on "35% of premeds from so-and-so school that applied were accepted", do everything you can to make sure that you are accepted. (If that makes sense — it's an active attitude vs. a passive attitude.) Good luck!

 

[Ismet]

UND. Do you really want to graduate medical school with half a million dollars in debt? I mean, contact Brown to see if anything can be done re: fin aid without your parents' support, but if it ends up being 200k vs UND, absolutely go with UND. Brown for undergrad is not worth 200K when you're going to go another 200K++ in debt with med school.

 

[LaughingMan]

OP--while going to Brown is more glamerous and no doubt more exciting--graduating from Undergrad with 200k in debt is a very bad idea. I'm not too sure if those loans would be subsidized but if they aren't, then you are gonna have a VERY large debt balance by the time you finish that + Med School--unless you pull a NickNaylor and get a full ride to med school.

I would advise UND.

 

[Goro]

Good point, Dawg!

Actually, Brown's interview rate is 3.6%. Harvard's is > 10%!! Ditto Albany. Yale's is 14%!

If you want a different reason to not recommend them that is based in MSAR metrics, Brown only interviews about 2.9% of their applicant pool which is astoundingly low.

 

[Flashfan]

Since your parents are pulling a 'control maneuver', you may need to counter with an 'independence maneuver' -- such as arranging to move to Providence, perhaps defer admission for a year (or more) so you can establish yourself as an independent adult, and living on the cheap away from home.

Even living independently wouldn't help unless OP joins military, gets married or has a child. Schools require parent's information until age 24 to be considered independent now. If the parents won't pay, it sucks but at least ND is an alternative.

 

[Missy9881]

But won't OP have to get all of that info anyway for UND? I don't recall much variation between schools on finaid paperwork. Most just wanted FAFSA, no? Can't OP just login and add Brown to the school list for FAFSA submission?

Unfortunately Brown has a separate financial aid application to fill out, along with the FAFSA. :/ so yes, I will have the FAFSA filled out, but I wont be able to fill out the Brown financial aid application along with that.

Also, my parents do not have their tax information anywhere for me to find it. Our taxes are also quite complicated because we are farmers. I would definitely need a lot of assistance from my parents to help me fill it out.

 

[mehc012]

There is much more to life than the undergraduate institution that one attends. I agree with you that the parents are being controlling, but I also think that your vitriol toward them is unwarranted. I have been in the same position before and, although I was very unhappy with my parent's decision to make me go to a school that was not my top choice, they also had good reason to (a.k.a. even after emptying out their retirement funds and savings, they could only pay for 2 years of education at that university). It didn't mean that my parents didn't love me or want the best for me. They simply couldn't afford it. I personally do not think that any undergraduate degree is worth $200,000, especially for a shot in a field in which most people who make it through warn others to look at every other possible option that they would be happy doing before going down the same path.

There is an absolute difference between "we cannot/will not pay for something" and "we are trying to force your decision without any financial impact to ourselves." Your story is completely dissimilar to OP's...not even comparable. You were not in the same situation.

If these parents were looking at a completed aid offer and going "you have a free option, so we will not contribute any money" or even "We don't like Brown because it sounds boring, so we will not give you any money, but we'll give you full tuition to WUSTL because it's fun to say", that's fine. They have the absolute right to do as they will with their own money, rational or not, fair or not, what have you. This is not that. This is pure obstructionism.