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aw man this was my first choice!!
Fair enough. What about an equal stats student CNU vs AUCThat's tough to say. Even if you were to decide which one is in a better position, you've added so many variables to the equation that you wouldn't know if the reason one has the advantage over the other is because of Step1 score, differences in quality of LoR, or school attended.
Fair enough. What about an equal stats student CNU vs AUC
Hey hey hey, I counted at least 3! lol.Literally they have only one teaching faculty member with a US MD Degree. Not throwing the school out (There are plenty of great international professors out there), but I'm not sure how comfortable I am being taught by someone who get their medical degree in Kazakhstan...
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I do.Hey hey hey, I counted at least 3! lol.
But seriously, even though a bunch of the faculty are not US trained, a lot of them seem to have decent experience/merits it seems. Example, the doctor from Kazakhstan "was a founding Director of Foundations of Medicine course, Director of Endocrine/Reproduction course, and Director of Standardized Patient program at Florida Atlantic University College of Medicine." I'm not saying she should be put up for a nobel prize now lol but certainly I don't think just because you are not US MD trained that you are unfit to be a professor. That being said, I have no idea how good these peoples backgrounds are compared to professors at other medical schools
And the comparison conclusion is the CNU faculty are no bueno, yes?I do.
Racist..Literally they have only one teaching faculty member with a US MD Degree. Not throwing the school out (There are plenty of great international professors out there), but I'm not sure how comfortable I am being taught by someone who get their medical degree in Kazakhstan...
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I wouldn't start a department or even a division with this faculty and resources, much less a medical school.And the comparison conclusion is the CNU faculty are no bueno, yes?
I wouldn't start a department or even a division with this faculty and resources, much less a medical school.
Any one of them might be a good teacher, but there are some serious deficiencies here for the scope necessary to provide the support for 50 students. I was completely sure that they wouldn't achieve preliminary accreditation when I reviewed their website last year.
If Baylor is on probation, how could this faculty and facilities be approved, even preliminarily?
I wouldn't start a department or even a division with this faculty and resources, much less a medical school.
Any one of them might be a good teacher, but there are some serious deficiencies here for the scope necessary to provide the support for 50 students. I was completely sure that they wouldn't achieve preliminary accreditation when I reviewed their website last year.
If Baylor is on probation, how could this faculty and facilities be approved, even preliminarily?
As a fellow Faculty member, I don't think that SDNers really grasp how damning the wise gyngyn's words really are!
And CNU wants to go from 50 to 250+ in two years!!!!
Being a NYer, I wouldn't be surprised if money changed hands in their accreditation process.
I don't think the LCME would accept bribes though...
I wouldn't start a department or even a division with this faculty and resources, much less a medical school.
Any one of them might be a good teacher, but there are some serious deficiencies here for the scope necessary to provide the support for 50 students. I was completely sure that they wouldn't achieve preliminary accreditation when I reviewed their website last year.
If Baylor is on probation, how could this faculty and facilities be approved, even preliminarily?
Wait what? They want to go from 60 to 250+??! I feel like I've read this before on this thread. Is this on their site? I guess for them it's as simple as demand and supply lolAs a fellow Faculty member, I don't think that SDNers really grasp how damning the wise gyngyn's words really are!
And CNU wants to go from 50 to 250+ in two years!!!!
Being a NYer, I wouldn't be surprised if money changed hands in their accreditation process.
Those schools had US trained faculty members with ties to their specialty communities.
It didn't stop hospital administrators from giving rotation slots away to Carib diploma mills.
Very important.How important are faculty connections in terms of students from a particular medical school being competitive for residency match?
It's not just the number, it's the depth and breadth of experience.WesternU in OR had 15 faculty members for a class of 100+ DO students, which have just graduated..
It is not immediately clear, upon looking at their website, how many faculty they have now for 400+ students, but it does not seem like much. I do not think that this faculty to student ratio is unique to this particular school, either.
lol.California Northstate University College of Medicine started its first class this Fall 2015 semester. Most accepted students coming from California (UC Berkeley, UC Davis, UCLA, USC, Stanford, etc) with a few coming from other notable schools such as BYU Provo, MIT, and more. Average MCAT score of accepted students over 34 and only 60 students were accepted. Currently accepting applicants for the 2016 cycle through AMCAS!
California Northstate University College of Medicine started its first class this Fall 2015 semester. Most accepted students coming from California (UC Berkeley, UC Davis, UCLA, USC, Stanford, etc) with a few coming from other notable schools such as BYU Provo, MIT, and more. Average MCAT score of accepted students over 34 and only 60 students were accepted. Currently accepting applicants for the 2016 cycle through AMCAS!
So you guys filled your class with high stat leftovers. Sounds like a recipe for mopping up sociopaths and weirdos. I heard LCME is furious that you guys decided to seat a class this year instead of next. I'm sure that will make obtaining provisional accreditation a breeze!
Congrats on bringing the Everest/U of Phoenix model to allopathic medical education in the United States. That is truly a remarkable feat, and something to be extremely proud of.
High stat leftovers. Sounds like the right group from which to pick your students.
Gastrapathy said:Attacking the students is shameful. It's the faculty participating in this ruse who deserve shame.
So professional
*swoons*
I don't think the LCME would accept bribes though...
Do you honestly believe that the last 1000 accepted students are a better qualified group than the first 1000 rejected students? You'd be wrong. And they only had to find 60 of those. They are undoubtedly better qualified than the bottom 60 students accepted to allopathic schools. Or do you believe your process is perfect?
Gastrapathy said:Blame the sketchy school, the coward LCME but not the kids with dreams.
Or perhaps just waiting a year to fix their application?The students have a choice between taking a subpar education or maybe never being a doctor.
lol.
where is the original post from cnucom that you guys were quoting? I can't seem to find it in the thread. Did they delete it?
You will have to take out private loans. Not worth it IMO.
"California Northstate University College of Medicine started its first class this Fall 2015 semester. Most accepted students coming from California (UC Berkeley, UC Davis, UCLA, USC, Stanford, etc) with a few coming from other notable schools such as BYU Provo, MIT, and more. Average MCAT score of accepted students over 34 and only 60 students were accepted. Currently accepting applicants for the 2016 cycle through AMCAS!"
That's more or less the meat of it, I think.
Ah yea, I think so. Also curious why @cnucom didn't also include GPA averages along with the prima facie impressive MCAT averages.Did they delete it?
On the topic of private loans, if your or your guarantor's credit score are good it's not uncommon to get a private loan at a fixed rate that is more competitive than the federal variable rate of 6.something%
I heard LCME is furious that you guys decided to seat a class this year instead of next. I'm sure that will make obtaining provisional accreditation a breeze!
Yes but they also aren't eligible for deferment or forgiveness most of the time.On the topic of private loans, if your or your guarantor's credit score are good it's not uncommon to get a private loan at a fixed rate that is more competitive than the federal variable rate of 6.something%
That's interesting to hear. I had assumed that they had obtained LCME's blessing to start for the fall 2015 but if they had not, it certainly sounds unwise to step on LCME's toes while still in provisional accreditation. Is there any source for this?
The reason the LCME exists is to provide a standard. Either this meets their standard or they aren't willing to hold to it and would prefer just to sit back and collect money. If either of those are the case, then why should they exist?
Gastrapathy said:As for the "food on the table" argument ala Latrell Sprewell, a physician who can't make a living in America should never be in charge of teaching students.
Gastrapathy said:The students have a choice between taking a subpar education or maybe never being a doctor.
I do not have a source, per se, but if you want to dig you can search lcme.org to see when the new schools have been accredited, and then look at when they seat their first classes. From FSU up to now they all follow an established pattern: they have a site visit, they receive preliminary accreditation, they plug into AMCAS and finish a regular application cycle, and sit their first class the following year. Even the late comers who did not receive preliminary accreditation until October did not have a class show up until 10 months later.
Northstate decided it couldn't wait. The school received preliminary accreditation on June 9, and held its white coat ceremony 88 days later. I do not even think they had time to arrange federal loans for their students. I would be extremely surprised if the LCME does not go back there with a fine tooth comb and a strong desire to pick that place apart.
I invite you to read the 1910 Flexner report on medical education in the United States, because it feels like we're on the verge of going back in time: http://archive.carnegiefoundation.org/pdfs/elibrary/Carnegie_Flexner_Report.pdf
has LCME ever revoked preliminary accreditation?
What jaxon said.
The only school in recent history to lose its accreditation was San Juan Batista in Puerto Rico. It eventually got it back after a messy legal fight with the LCME, but a lot of damage was done in the process.
Among the new schools, Commonwealth is the undisputed champion in terms of accreditation problems. They managed to come off probation and achieve full accreditation, but not before burning through a lot of money, good will, and a number of Deans.
Given its for-profit status and the immediate shenanigans with admitting a class, this business with Northstate is uncharted territory in many ways.
The school is accredited but these students are supposed to perform their own evaluation and determine that it doesn't meet the standard?
You're being deliberately obtuse.
Plenty of educational institutions are accredited in all fields. Doesn't mean they prepare you well or will lead to a career when you're done. Are people who want to be physicians not supposed to be discerning?
Back when Commonwealth was founded I was really skeptical of the LCME's decision. Not because I didn't think it would be a fine school someday, but because IIRC they still hadn't finalized where students were going to be doing their clinical rotations when accreditation was approved.