California Pharmacists - The Real Story on Job Outlook

[PharmDstudent]

Oh let me add, that overall were receptive to helping people out through teaching. If someone wants to learn about the business end they certainly can. We don't fear competition, if someone wants to learn how to own and operate we'll teach them within the business hours and after. We have one young fellow who is doing just this and have had at least one that I know of in the past that branched off and started his own pharmacy. So for some people, working at an independent is a great trade off..may be lower pay for 82k right but hey at least your learning from a group of people that having been at this a long time.

A community pharmacist residency...45k salary right? Wow. You want to talk about crooks...talk about all the community pharmacy residency scams. Come to our pharmacy, we'll pay you a little less than double that, teach you more, and you'll probably end up with connections that are invaluable. Sound like a good deal, just stay with us for 2-4 years.

...And this is why a salary can still go lower in California...because lets be honest, once again you know you have class mates that will sign up for this deal in a heart beat.

Your reasoning is fine. People don't work for independents expecting to get paid like they work for a chain. We (most of us at least) already know this...

However, the most problematic part of this entire thread is that you suggest that the scenario that you give is "the real story on job outlook", which is a bunch of garbage. If this was going on at a chain, then fine. But the chains set the salaries for the entire profession, because they will pay the most, not independents... so your entire message is garbage.

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[PharmDTop5]

Its fools that call entire threads "garbage" when the OP has properly provided real data in a select context and has prefaced all comments with that context is why we we are in the problem we are today. I've already said that that the way that my comments translate into the broader job market is that chain's are simply cutting hours, hiring floaters ... translating into a net effective decrease in salary per year even though per hour is not changing. Chains can't drop salary's because pharmacists are part of THE union and have set rates through the contract. Enough of California's pharmacist labor market has unionized contracts that it keeps non unionized pharmacist employers having to pay a competitive wage...it will take a while to see that effect come but I believe that is where we're headed with upcoming school openings, and gradual build up of labor siupply. What I am saying currently is that many chains are simpy freezing hiring all together, cutting pharmacist and tech hours, closing certain pharmacies in certain areas, and/or hiring new graduates as temp floaters (and in the vast majority of cases floater hours for new graduates DO NOT add up to 40 hours a week).

So call this thread garbage but this is the truth and most people on sdn know it...that is why there are numerous other threads related to job outlook. Because of that curiosity I decided to provide some data / information on California specifically becuase that is where I have expertise.

Another thing that has been masking the full effect of the gradual supply build up is the rapid expansion of pharmacy residency spots over the past several years and since the recession. This is delaying some of that 2010 oversupply and I think we're going to begin to see more floater jobs etc. Additionally, many people are realizing that the number of clinical residency spots simply does not equate to the number of actual clinical pharmacy staff positions. Schools sold many graduating classes on going to 1-2 years of residency, and some cases 3. Not all of these residency trained graduates are working much sought after clinical positions.

I digress...the point is the same...we need education on the topic of jobs, we need education to our accreditation bodies, our societies and our pre pharmacy students that there is an over supply in certain markets. Look at what has happend to the legal profession, why do people so resist on accepting the truth as it is happening. Remember one thing...pharmacists are not recognized as providers in the vast majority of the country, they are expendable to society until we advocate for our worth in clinical care in the community setting. We have a narrow window to prove our worth after healthcare reform's implementation. If we miss it, pharmacy will be stagnant for another 50 years.

What we don't need right now is people arguing about how the job market is ok. It is not ok. That's a fact and we need to create urgency around the issue. We don't need second rate programs opening up like community colleges / Devry Institute cranking on PharmDs ... how then can we make an argument that these are the same people that should be substituting, altering, and messing with a physicians dosing and treatment plan.

 

[Its Z]

Theres nothing profound in your posts about pharmacist oversupply. weve been saying it for years. you really bring nothing to the table. like "do you guys know how to post videos to facebook?"

What is profound is your hypocricy lamenting diploma mills yet undercutting salaries of your own. i will say it again. youre no different than those profiteering devry pharmacy educators.

 

[pinipig523]

Theres nothing profound in your posts about pharmacist oversupply. weve been saying it for years. you really bring nothing to the table. like "do you guys know how to post videos to facebook?"

What is profound is your hypocricy lamenting diploma mills yet undercutting salaries of your own. i will say it again. youre no different than those profiteering devry pharmacy educators.

Exactly.

 

[pinipig523]

Smiles 425 -
A little but not really...If I'm saving 30k on salary...trust me my training cost is not 30k. Let's say max it takes one week of paid onboarding/orientation (and this max 5 days...maybe 2 grandish max?). Maybe some transition/flow problems for another week...another 2 grand maybe in lost productivity from the whole operation? Recruitment cost is essentially nothing...I email a dean, a professor, a student and they send the job out to their pharmacy graduating class and I pretty much get 20 resumes within 2-3 days. I pick out some eager beavers who have past chain experience (I usually interview candidates who worked at chains that I know won't be hiring...ex. if I am aware of a CVS hiring freeze in county X...I'll make sure to grant interviews to anyone who has been interning at CVS).

What do you mean "saving" 30K? I thought you were 50K below what you were paying the older guys?

Or do you mean that you had a budget to pay the new grads 110K but you are saving 30K by paying them 80K?

Didn't you say you guys were barely making it and that the salaries you were paying was because you didn't have any money left over? If so, how are you saving $30K?

If anything, you're not saving anything since your business is so close to the red... right?

Or is it so profitable that despite its profitability, you prefer to undercut your pharmacists so you can make more money?

 

[PharmDTop5]

nearing 5 AM....and at a pharmacy already. Yes...unpaid hours for the owners.

I can't explain business to you pinipig. When you operate multiple pharmacies, each pharmacy is its own entity. The portfolio is doing well. But individual pharmacies are not. In a nut shell, you can read about corporate strategy on your own time, you don't base financial decisions like salary costs on the performance of other pharmacies. You base the salary decision on that particular pharmacy, its location, its volume etc. The pharmacies that employ the lower cost labor bring in the least amount of money to the portfolio and are closest to making the ROI not worth it to operate (in fact for many people these pharmacies would not be that profitable...we can squeeze the profits because we have scale in our operation, a pretty darn good backend system etc). Does this make sense to you? I could sell this pharmacy for a 10% discount to any Rite Aid manager and they would cash flow negative if they paid his/her self a 100k and the debt service. It makes sense for us because all the debt has been paid down, we have synergies with the rest of our operation to make it worth it.

We COULD pay more, but the truth is so much business has been lost from these pharmacies that we have to err on the side of proper business management. What pay everyone 130k only to find out the next year that the business decreases more and so now your really in the RED? No I think not. If your opinion is that business owners should do things out of the goodness of their heart than you have a twisted view of the real world.

The solution is policy and getting reimbursed for what pharmacists know how to do...so the owner can get paid for it...so he/she can raise the salary.

The fact that this entire discussion is somehow focused on me being unethical is so absurd. Currently, retail pharmacies pay more than double the US household income to essentially do customer service and put pills in bottles. THE ONLY reason, why anyone has a job right now in this field is that there is a law saying that a pharmacist is the one that has to dispense. THE ONLY reason that salary's are at a 100k is because supply of pharmacists was limited after the BA to PharmD switch. That's a fact ok, we as a profession self limited the supply big time and now get the benefits. Now what I'm saying is, the PharmD supply is catching up...and the supply is making it possible to pay less for what is essentially blue collar work disguised as white collar work. We have a choice now, either we get reimbursement for MTM/services etc. and create a need for owners to hire and pay well, or this profession will degrade into a 70-80ish job.

The writing is on the wall. Technology is going to create a need for less physical labor hours, mail order is going to continue to reduce script counts and fills, people are going to continue to accelerate online purchases of OTC and DME products, etc. Right now all you really need to operate most pharmacies is someone that speaks english, maybe spanish, knows basic numbers, has some social skills, and can stand for 7-8 hours. The only way for pharmacy to survive is to expand into a service/provider function which is why I continue to make my point for this.

This is a transition period. And some owners are getting out because they don't want to bother with this. They'll sell their pharmacies and buy apartments. We on the other hand, are sticking by our business, our employees, and our profession to ride out this storm as it continues to get worse. Hopefully we'll see some changes with healthare reform etc, and you'll be glad that the independents survived.

 

[Ackj]

The biggest problem with MTM...

Despite all the APhA propaganda I hear in school about it being the Holy Grail, I still don't understand how it could ever be feasible. Every time we fill an rx, we have to do a DUR anyway. What is MTM going to do that a simple DUR doesn't do? Sure you sit down and talk to the patient about their meds and their diseases, but I don't think glorified counseling sessions are going to be profitable. Even if you do manage to get a few people to talk to you and pay you for it, how often would it happen? Every year, two, five years? It's not like a regular rx that gets filled every month and you can get repeated income.

 

[Its Z]

retail pharmacies pay more than double the US household income to essentially do customer service and put pills in bottles. THE ONLY reason, why anyone has a job right now in this field is that there is a law saying that a pharmacist is the one that has to dispense.

Yeah..and THE ONLY reason pharmacists can't prescribe is because there is a law saying that only licensed independent practitioners can prescribe.. what's your point?

THE ONLY reason that salary's are at a 100k is because supply of pharmacists was limited after the BA to PharmD switch. That's a fact ok, we as a profession self limited the supply big time and now get the benefits.

You're wrong. Study your history before you go on and blabber your mouth on the keyborad. The shortage of pharmacists actually started to occur before the BS to PharmD conversion mandate. It started in mid 90's along with real estate boom when Walgreens announced they would put up 7,000 stores across the US. Other chains followed.. and it became a real estate/script volume war hence creating the demand for pharmacists.

What you described is one of the contributing factors. Not THE ONLY reason. Now, that's a fact.

Now what I'm saying is, the PharmD supply is catching up...and the supply is making it possible to pay less for what is essentially blue collar work disguised as white collar work. We have a choice now, either we get reimbursement for MTM/services etc. and create a need for owners to hire and pay well, or this profession will degrade into a 70-80ish job.

Welcome to 2004.

Hopefully we'll see some changes with healthare reform etc, and you'll be glad that the independents survived.

LOL, why would I be glad for your survival when your survival came at the backs of your lowly paid pharmacists? You think those pharmacists you let go will be glad?

 

[jasonkido]

Applaud you for you business decision but posting how you lowered pharmacist salaries on a pharm forum is not smart.....

 

[owlegrad]

Applaud you for you business decision but posting how you lowered pharmacist salaries on a pharm forum is not smart.....

I am surprised how relatively well received this thread has been. I assumed it would end up being locked when I first saw it. I mean posting on a pharmacy forum how you are paying 37% below market? How crass can you get?

And then trying to spin it as being a good deal for the pharmacists or claiming what a great employer you are? I am not at all sure that we are not being trolled.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I am surprised how relatively well received this thread has been. I assumed it would end up being locked when I first saw it. I mean posting on a pharmacy forum how you are paying 37% below market? How crass can you get?

And then trying to spin it as being a good deal for the pharmacists or claiming what a great employer you are? I am not at all sure that we are not being trolled.

But they have really great parties!!!

I agree. Crass, indeed.

 

[indebtpharmd]

Where are all these low paying jobs people refer too? I graduated last summer. Secured a job in the Bay area. I moved here out of state and I am paid quite well. Two friends also moved here before getting licensed albeit the positions were in the valley. Their pay is just fine. While you people are bickering about how hard it is plenty of people are finding ways to get good jobs.

 

[indebtpharmd]

Seriously where the hell is this pharmacy haha?

 

[CareDD]

Seriously where the hell is this pharmacy haha?

This should be my signature.

 

[PharmDTop5]

1) My opinion is if the ACO model is implemented properly then MTM providers can be eligible for some of the shared savings dollars and the reimbursement itself. The shared savings is the holy grail and where the focus is at the apha federal level in terms of advocacy...this is what I'm hoping for. It remains to be scene how this shakes out (whether you have to become a networked pharmacy of an ACO to be eligible for the payment etc) but this is where I see a real upside.
2) We are in the process of opening up a higher end specialty pharmacy for an affluent seniors only gated community. This particular pharmacy may need to hire someone with some geriatrics knowledge or just a pretty face, don't know yet but I still don't think we would want to go too much higher in salary if the function of that pharmacist is primarily filling. Now if it becomes a situation where we want lots of counseling/patient interaction because the community feels that way about it then perhaps a newer grad with great presentation/speaking ability could persuade otherwise.
3) I still don't understand the attacks. This thread is well recieved because there is someone putting up real numbers and data. And a select few are posting but there are many messaging and many many more reading that are concerned readers. I think it is still more productive then a lot of other threads doing pure complaining or making statements from being employees at a pharmacy without any true knowledge of the labor market place from the hiring perspective.

In all these comments, one thing comes across --- many of your have this sense of entitlement and it angers you that someone would reduce a salary for business reasons. Most professions in the world don't have "set" rates like we do, you're good, you're unqiue, you perform you get better.

No...I see a lot of complainers and haters attacking me right now and accusing me of things. In reality, would you take a 60k base salary with another 60k performance bonus potential pool to equal 120k??? Performance based on patient surveys of your counseling ability, customer happiness, time/efficiency, inventory management, marketing ability/ability to increase scripts asking patients to refer the pharmacy etc etc.

Ya. That's what I thought....all of a sudden add some real job requirements to the job and now everyone wants the guaranteed money. That's the problem right? The owner has to take all that risk.

So many professions work on 50-100% bonus potential. Pharmacy is currently a retail profession but I bet none of you would take this deal and put your money where your mouth is. I'll happily pay 120k at the end of the year if you hit all the realistic performance benchmarks. But again, you won't take that deal. The truth is most people would rather not do all those extra things for another 20ish k a year if it involved a substantially more hectic work day.

Pharmacy is currently sales people, and sales are declining on a unit basis and a margin basis. Sales = revenue. Salary = cost. Profit = revenue - cost. For the world to go round...profit not only must be POSITIVE but the IRR or internal rate of return must be greater than the cost of your capital. And the cost of your capital is something you set personally not others.

Salary must decline for me to achieve an appropriate return on my cost of capital. End of story. Thats the nuts and bolts kids...the big guys will do it on the big scale. If margins go down far enough...eventually a major chain will give in and get OUT of the rx business. Then you'll see how the market works. Oh don't worry with all the dumb logic being used against me...salary's wont decline you'll instead just be faced with 20% pharmacy unemployment. Pharmacy contracts and unionized labor is just one big market inefficiency, you'll see and if that day comes...I pray it doesnt because no one wants to see that...it'll simply be that as a profession you can have 100 people working for 100k annual salary or 200 people working for 50k annual salary. If your in the first 100...you'll be the first to advocate for your 100k contract and wont give a damn about those other 100 out of work.

Thats the truth...so spare the high and mighty ethics lectures super chain employees at a 120k. Every dollar you take under unionized pharmacy labor constitutes a dollar taken away from an unemployed pharmacist. THATS ECONOMICS. But since most of you sound like liberals...I guess you'd rather eat ice cream at disneyland then think that the world isnt black and white. Keep those ethics lectures going you 120k staff pharmacists pumping 100s of drugs at the back of Wal Mart while your patients eat at the McD's inside and buy nothing but the fattiest foods ever.

And I'm the guy getting ethics lectures from ya'll, please. Don't talk about other people's ethics unless you question everything about yourself first, most of you are so hypocrtical its not even funny. Flame on flame on! All I know is everyone not posting loves the show and loves the data I'm providing.

 

[pinipig523]

nearing 5 AM....and at a pharmacy already. Yes...unpaid hours for the owners.

OH PLEASE!! You get paid. Just because you don't get paid by the hour... omg... don't whine. Stop it... that's pathetic.

I can't explain business to you pinipig.

We COULD pay more, but the truth is so much business has been lost from these pharmacies that we have to err on the side of proper business management. What pay everyone 130k only to find out the next year that the business decreases more and so now your really in the RED? No I think not. If your opinion is that business owners should do things out of the goodness of their heart than you have a twisted view of the real world.

You don't have to explain business to me - I own a business as well so I'm ok with that.

You can PAY more and you're not. You're taking advantage of your own people - that's all. You're potentiating the idea that a pharmacists' income should be lower and remain that low. As a pharmacist, you should be the first to know what fair pay should be for a pharmacist.

This is a transition period. And some owners are getting out because they don't want to bother with this. They'll sell their pharmacies and buy apartments. We on the other hand, are sticking by our business, our employees, and our profession to ride out this storm as it continues to get worse. Hopefully we'll see some changes with healthare reform etc, and you'll be glad that the independents survived.

Don't make it seem like you're doing anyone a favor by staying as an independent. The reason why you're staying as an independent is because you guys are still making money and it's something that you know how to do.

 

[pinipig523]

1) My opinion is if the ACO model is implemented properly then MTM providers can be eligible for some of the shared savings dollars and the reimbursement itself. The shared savings is the holy grail and where the focus is at the apha federal level in terms of advocacy...this is what I'm hoping for. It remains to be scene how this shakes out (whether you have to become a networked pharmacy of an ACO to be eligible for the payment etc) but this is where I see a real upside.

So are you going to provide bonus pay to your pharmacists for providing MTM and making you some extra cash or are you just going to pocket the change?

 

[xXRAYNEXx]

As much as I hate to see pharmacists get paid that low, I think it is very reasonable for PharmDTop5 to decrease the salary of his staff from a business owner's perspective. If most of us were in his shoes, we would do the same to stay afloat in hard economic times. I don't like the decision, but I have to agree with it because it makes sense. The surplus of pharmacists and bad economy are fueling a growing pressure for a decrease in salary for pharmacists. It is happening as I suspect. You do what is needed to survive. So I think he's being unfairly criticized for that due to resentment of lower salary. But I think he's providing valuable insights from a business owner's side of things with clear explanations and real world examples. So thank you.

I agree with advocating to stop new schools from opening when they are not needed, especially in California when pharmacist jobs are scarce. It's very bad for the profession. Med schools are restricted in that effect, pharm schools should be as well. If UCLA and UCR open their own pharm program, we'll be screwed in cali. I'll be looking into ways to stop 3-year program AUHS in Signal Hill from being accredited if it does manage to take off. I was waiting for somebody to do something about this like those organizations that are supposed to protect the profession. Don't let it happen to PharmD like it did with JD where many of them don't practice law because they can't find jobs.

 

[natorx]

Is there jobs in Fresno, Merced, Stockton, Tracy those nasty valley towns?

Or is the saturation in the desirable area's of cali: Bay Area and LA area?

I grew up in the Bay Area, but in school in Texas, it'd be nice to someday move back, but seems unlikely in the relative future.

 

[MountainPharmD]

I am with all of you bashing on this guy for doing the very thing he is complaining about. However, some of what he says is spot on. He has a better understanding of the business right now than 99% of us out there working for the retail chains.

.......Currently, retail pharmacies pay more than double the US household income to essentially do customer service and put pills in bottles. THE ONLY reason, why anyone has a job right now in this field is that there is a law saying that a pharmacist is the one that has to dispense.

This is a fact. It is a joke that I get paid 132k a year to be a retail pharmacists. I laugh all the way to the bank every month. The only difference is my technicians put pills in the bottle and I stare at a computer screen all day and make sure the pill they put in the bottle matches the picture on the screen. Oh yeah I also proof read the date entry technicians work. Basically I get paid 132k a year to be a proof reader and a pill to picture matcher. Seriously, it is a joke.

THE ONLY reason that salary's are at a 100k is because supply of pharmacists was limited after the BA to PharmD switch. That's a fact ok, we as a profession self limited the supply big time and now get the benefits. Now what I'm saying is, the PharmD supply is catching up...and the supply is making it possible to pay less for what is essentially blue collar work disguised as white collar work. We have a choice now, either we get reimbursement for MTM/services etc. and create a need for owners to hire and pay well, or this profession will degrade into a 70-80ish job. .

I will take it a step further and say the profession will degrade to the point where they are no retail pharmacists. They will be replaced by advance practice technicians and a central fill facility. It absolutly does not require a PharmD to be a retail Pharmacist. What we do on a daily basis can easily be done by a technician with minimal extra training. You do not need a PharmD to match a pictue on the computer screen with the pill in the bottle. You do not need a PharmD to proof read someone elses work. All it takes to change is the stoke of a pen that removes the requiremnet that a Pharmacist must do the final check.

The writing is on the wall. Technology is going to create a need for less physical labor hours, mail order is going to continue to reduce script counts and fills, people are going to continue to accelerate online purchases of OTC and DME products, etc. Right now all you really need to operate most pharmacies is someone that speaks english, maybe spanish, knows basic numbers, has some social skills, and can stand for 7-8 hours. The only way for pharmacy to survive is to expand into a service/provider function which is why I continue to make my point for this. .

Absolute fact. The current retail pharmacy model is dead.

This is is a transition period. And some owners are getting out because they don't want to bother with this. They'll sell their pharmacies and buy apartments. We on the other hand, are sticking by our business, our employees, and our profession to ride out this storm as it continues to get worse. Hopefully we'll see some changes with healthare reform etc, and you'll be glad that the independents survived.

You are part of running a business. Something 99% of the people on here have no clue about. The decisions you are making may sound terrible but it is the same decisions the big chains will soon be making. Say CVS cuts Pharmacists salries by 20%. Everyone else will follow suit. What are we going to do? Its not like I can argue that I am worth 130k because what I do on a daily basis is not worth half that. Things will have to change and change fast or we are dead.

 

[PharmDstudent]

He has a better understanding of the business right now than 99% of us out there working for the retail chains.

Seriously? He's a troll.

 

[StevePerry]

Is there jobs in Fresno, Merced, Stockton, Tracy those nasty valley towns?

Or is the saturation in the desirable area's of cali: Bay Area and LA area?

I grew up in the Bay Area, but in school in Texas, it'd be nice to someday move back, but seems unlikely in the relative future.

LMAO

 

[MountainPharmD]

Seriously? He's a troll.

Just because you do not like what is is saing doesn't make him a troll.

 

[StevePerry]

I am with all of you bashing on this guy for doing the very thing he is complaining about. However, some of what he says is spot on. He has a better understanding of the business right now than 99% of us out there working for the retail chains.




This is a fact. It is a joke that I get paid 132k a year to be a retail pharmacists. I laugh all the way to the bank every month. The only difference is my technicians put pills in the bottle and I stare at a computer screen all day and make sure the pill they put in the bottle matches the picture on the screen. Oh yeah I also proof read the date entry technicians work. Basically I get paid 132k a year to be a proof reader and a pill to picture matcher. Seriously, it is a joke.



I will take it a step further and say the profession will degrade to the point where they are no retail pharmacists. They will be replaced by advance practice technicians and a central fill facility. It absolutly does not require a PharmD to be a retail Pharmacist. What we do on a daily basis can easily be done by a technician with minimal extra training. You do not need a PharmD to match a pictue on the computer screen with the pill in the bottle. You do not need a PharmD to proof read someone elses work. All it takes to change is the stoke of a pen that removes the requiremnet that a Pharmacist must do the final check.



Absolute fact. The current retail pharmacy model is dead.



You are part of running a business. Something 99% of the people on here have no clue about. The decisions you are making may sound terrible but it is the same decisions the big chains will soon be making. Say CVS cuts Pharmacists salries by 20%. Everyone else will follow suit. What are we going to do? Its not like I can argue that I am worth 130k because what I do on a daily basis is not worth half that. Things will have to change and change fast or we are dead.

You should be the next Tony Robbins man. I think a lot of it is giving enough of a **** to make sure to "proofread" correctly and make sure the right pill is in the right bottle. Without some sort of time/money investment tell me half your techs would really give a ****? One positive thing is the whole "educational-industrial" system lobby that has nearly doubled recently in pharmacy will oppose any of the super-tech laws/initiatives. That would cut into their profits and in the long run they will bastardize the profession anyways to nearly that point. Pricks.

 

[MountainPharmD]

Is there jobs in Fresno, Merced, Stockton, Tracy those nasty valley towns?

Or is the saturation in the desirable area's of cali: Bay Area and LA area?

I grew up in the Bay Area, but in school in Texas, it'd be nice to someday move back, but seems unlikely in the relative future.

Tons of jobs and the sign on bonuses are huge! I think they are still offering a Mercedes of BMW if you sign a long-term contract.

 

[StevePerry]

Tons of jobs and the sign on bonuses are huge! I think they are still offering a Mercedes of BMW if you sign a long-term contract.

Yeah, maybe a bulletproof Hummer in some of those places listed...

 

[PharmDstudent]

Just because you do not like what is is saing doesn't make him a troll.

He's a troll trying to get justification for his or his family's actions. It's painfully obvious.

 

[PharmDstudent]

You should be the next Tony Robbins man. I think a lot of it is giving enough of a **** to make sure to "proofread" correctly and make sure the right pill is in the right bottle. Without some sort of time/money investment tell me half your techs would really give a ****? One positive thing is the whole "educational-industrial" system lobby that has nearly doubled recently in pharmacy will oppose any of the super-tech laws/initiatives. That would cut into their profits and in the long run they will bastardize the profession anyways to nearly that point. Pricks.

Technicians don't seem to care very much. But who can blame them? They have no clinical skills.

 

[natorx]

Ok but seriously is there positions available in the valley? Baskerville to Stockton, maybe all the way up to Yreaka?

I teh googled, there show jobs, but not sure if they're real listings ( a lot of bs listings). If so would you consider moving?

 

[jdjefferson]

2) We are in the process of opening up a higher end specialty pharmacy for an affluent seniors only gated community. This particular pharmacy may need to hire someone with some geriatrics knowledge or just a pretty face, don't know yet but I still don't think we would want to go too much higher in salary if the function of that pharmacist is primarily filling. Now if it becomes a situation where we want lots of counseling/patient interaction because the community feels that way about it then perhaps a newer grad with great presentation/speaking ability could persuade otherwise.

You should consider providing services to LTC/assisted living facilities, etc. This is the growth in Pharmacy. I believe a stand-alone LTC pharmacy will reap greater reimbursement rates from Medicare.
BTW, are you actually a RPH? You don't talk like one.

 

[pinipig523]

It is a joke that I get paid 132k a year to be a retail pharmacists. I laugh all the way to the bank every month. The only difference is my technicians put pills in the bottle and I stare at a computer screen all day and make sure the pill they put in the bottle matches the picture on the screen. Oh yeah I also proof read the date entry technicians work. Basically I get paid 132k a year to be a proof reader and a pill to picture matcher. Seriously, it is a joke.

This I do not agree with you.

It is not a physically demanding job per se, but it is a mentally exhausting job. You have to make sure the chain of operation is running well, the tech is doing his/her job, the wait times are being addressed, and that you are on top of calling customers and reminding them that they need to refill their meds or calling them and asking why they are switching to CVS from Walgreens, you have to meet your quota for remote verification, etc.

On top of ALL that, you have to be sure that everything that leaves the pharmacy has your stamp of approval because your license is on the line each and every time.

And not just that, you have to play the "smiley face" for your company to each customer - some of whom are yelling at you for why they have to wait 20 minutes for a drug that just needs to be pulled off the shelf. Lest you forget, this is the same company who thinks you are disposable and has been cutting your tech hours while expecting you to hold the same level of customer service.

Also, add vaccinations, health testings, and all the MTM paperwork you have to fill out.

If you think that's easy - I invite you to be the first to take a pay cut.

You guys went to school for 8 years (typically) from undergrad to pharmacy. You guys deserve your pay.

 

[Rph888]

This I do not agree with you.

It is not a physically demanding job per se, but it is a mentally exhausting job. You have to make sure the chain of operation is running well, the tech is doing his/her job, the wait times are being addressed, and that you are on top of calling customers and reminding them that they need to refill their meds or calling them and asking why they are switching to CVS from Walgreens, you have to meet your quota for remote verification, etc.

On top of ALL that, you have to be sure that everything that leaves the pharmacy has your stamp of approval because your license is on the line each and every time.

And not just that, you have to play the "smiley face" for your company to each customer - some of whom are yelling at you for why they have to wait 20 minutes for a drug that just needs to be pulled off the shelf. Lest you forget, this is the same company who thinks you are disposable and has been cutting your tech hours while expecting you to hold the same level of customer service.

Also, add vaccinations, health testings, and all the MTM paperwork you have to fill out.

If you think that's easy - I invite you to be the first to take a pay cut.

You guys went to school for 8 years (typically) from undergrad to pharmacy. You guys deserve your pay.

most pharmacists did not go to school for 8 years. Most hold BS in pharmacy which could be done in 5 years.

come on do you really believe that supply and demand does not apply here? Read the optometry forums, that is a profession GUTTED by supply and demand.

 

[MountainPharmD]

This I do not agree with you.

It is not a physically demanding job per se, but it is a mentally exhausting job. You have to make sure the chain of operation is running well, the tech is doing his/her job, the wait times are being addressed, and that you are on top of calling customers and reminding them that they need to refill their meds or calling them and asking why they are switching to CVS from Walgreens, you have to meet your quota for remote verification, etc.

On top of ALL that, you have to be sure that everything that leaves the pharmacy has your stamp of approval because your license is on the line each and every time.

And not just that, you have to play the "smiley face" for your company to each customer - some of whom are yelling at you for why they have to wait 20 minutes for a drug that just needs to be pulled off the shelf. Lest you forget, this is the same company who thinks you are disposable and has been cutting your tech hours while expecting you to hold the same level of customer service.

Also, add vaccinations, health testings, and all the MTM paperwork you have to fill out.

If you think that's easy - I invite you to be the first to take a pay cut.

You guys went to school for 8 years (typically) from undergrad to pharmacy. You guys deserve your pay.

Where in heck did you get my picture!

Everything you just described does not require a PharmD and most of it has nothing to do with the actual practice of pharmacy. If having a ****ty, mentally exhausting job with alot of boring mundance resposibilities a monkey could do justifies 132k a year then nearly every retail clerk and fast food worker in American deserves to be making 132k a year.

 

[confettiflyer]

most pharmacists did not go to school for 8 years. Most hold BS in pharmacy which could be done in 5 years.

yeah....the old farts went to school for 5 years. the new hotness went to school for 8.

5 years to be a pharmacist? might as well be talking about the civil war.

 

[confettiflyer]

He's a troll trying to get justification for his or his family's actions. It's painfully obvious.

it also takes two to tango....he didn't just unilaterally lower salaries for his pharmacists, his pharmacists agreed to it by continuing to work.

if the OP is really an anomaly, those pharmacists will be jumping ship in 5...4....3...2....

 

[indebtpharmd]

Mtn pharm D is a disgrace to the health care field... Speak for yourself...

 

[Its Z]

Where in heck did you get my picture!

Everything you just described does not require a PharmD and most of it has nothing to do with the actual practice of pharmacy. If having a ****ty, mentally exhausting job with alot of boring mundance resposibilities a monkey could do justifies 132k a year then nearly every retail clerk and fast food worker in American deserves to be making 132k a year.

Maybe you should give back half of your salary to your employer.

 

[Its Z]

My buddy is hiring a m-f clinical pharmacist in northern cal for $67 per hour. Im going to send him my student whos graduating this May.

 

[R xxx]

On a VERY unrelated note, Pinipig sounds so hot for defending pharmacists lol. You make your wife very proud!

As for PharmDTop5, you came to work at 5am just to get online and spent hours writing that long ass post. You might as well just stay home and sleep in.

 

[pezdispenser]

Hi guys, just want to throw in my two cents .

I don't want to solely blame supply and demand for decreasing pharmacists' salaries. Also, I don't agree when pharmacists say "we went to school for 8 years and have $160k in debt so we deserve to get paid $130k+ salaries."

Our salaries should be based on the sales and gross profit we bring into the pharmacy (at least in retail).

So if a chain pharmacy is doing 240 scripts/day with a gross profit of, say $11/script, that's $2,640/day and they can comfortably afford to pay two pharmacists six figure salaries plus all the other operating expenses (totaling say 80% of GP or $2,112/day) and still have money left for interest, taxes, the shareholders, etc. But if you have a small independent and you're only doing 120 scripts/day then that's a gross profit of $1,320/day. You'll probably need 1.2 FTE RPhs, so there isn't enough money to support paying them $130k, operating expenses and leave any money for the owner to make it worth his while. In this case, the salary needs to come down but it is balanced by not doing as many scripts per pharmacist as the chain.

We are also seeing declining reimbursement such as the Express Scripts/Walgreens scenario and $4 generics, which cut into the gross profit. The shareholders/owners don't care and they still want to get paid the same return on investment or they'll just invest elsewhere. Therefore if the pharmacists want to keep their salaries the same, they need to work harder and do more scripts, otherwise their salaries will have to decrease as well.

 

[Dr Wario]

Perhaps there are days when a well trained technician-manager with strong technological infrastructure could do my job, but today was not one of those days. I received the following four scripts for a patient.

Keflex 500mg qid x 10d
Bactrim DS bid x 10d
Coumadin 5mg qd
Lovenox 150mg q12 x 10d

Pt weight appox 200lbs, ibw approx 120lbs

What do you think would have happened had this pt received the scripts as written?

 

[pinipig523]

most pharmacists did not go to school for 8 years. Most hold BS in pharmacy which could be done in 5 years.

Mmm... no. 5y? Maybe 6-7 if you have enough AP credits to blow through undergrad. I know you don't need to get a BS to get into pharm school. But no new pharmacist is a BS in pharmacy.

On a VERY unrelated note, Pinipig sounds so hot for defending pharmacists lol. You make your wife very proud!

Thank you thank you! My wife and my brother are pharmacists so I hear a lot of their frustrations with the field.

(and vice versa)

Perhaps there are days when a well trained technician-manager with strong technological infrastructure could do my job, but today was not one of those days. I received the following four scripts for a patient.

Keflex 500mg qid x 10d
Bactrim DS bid x 10d
Coumadin 5mg qd
Lovenox 150mg q12 x 10d

Pt weight appox 200lbs, ibw approx 120lbs

What do you think would have happened had this pt received the scripts as written?

He probably would've come back to my ER with an expanding abdominal wall hematoma from the lovenox shots and gone into hemorrhagic shock and end up with a central line, an arterial line, and on max dose pressors.

Oh yeah, I've seen that before.

Good thing we have smart pharmacists who bail out the docs who make such pharmaceutical errors.

 

[StevePerry]

Mmm... no. 5y? Maybe 6-7 if you have enough AP credits to blow through undergrad. I know you don't need to get a BS to get into pharm school. But no new pharmacist is a BS in pharmacy.



Thank you thank you! My wife and my brother are pharmacists so I hear a lot of their frustrations with the field.

(and vice versa)



He probably would've come back to my ER with an expanding abdominal wall hematoma from the lovenox shots and gone into hemorrhagic shock and end up with a central line, an arterial line, and on max dose pressors.

Oh yeah, I've seen that before.

Good thing we have smart pharmacists who bail out the docs who make such pharmaceutical errors.

Do me a favor sir and learn how to CLONE and/or INJECT YOUR OUTLOOK into EVERY PHYSICIAN in America. Thanks!

 

[PharmDstudent]

Perhaps there are days when a well trained technician-manager with strong technological infrastructure could do my job, but today was not one of those days. I received the following four scripts for a patient.

Keflex 500mg qid x 10d
Bactrim DS bid x 10d
Coumadin 5mg qd
Lovenox 150mg q12 x 10d

Pt weight appox 200lbs, ibw approx 120lbs

What do you think would have happened had this pt received the scripts as written?

This is an excellent example, and exactly why I think we (pharmacies) should have the patient's weight along with age, gender, allergies, etc. on file.

http://www.orthosupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=19166

 

[pinipig523]

Perhaps there are days when a well trained technician-manager with strong technological infrastructure could do my job, but today was not one of those days. I received the following four scripts for a patient.

Keflex 500mg qid x 10d
Bactrim DS bid x 10d
Coumadin 5mg qd
Lovenox 150mg q12 x 10d

Pt weight appox 200lbs, ibw approx 120lbs

What do you think would have happened had this pt received the scripts as written?

This is an excellent example, and exactly why I think we (pharmacies) should have the patient's weight along with age, gender, allergies, etc. on file.

http://www.orthosupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=19166

I think the scarier part (more so than the antibiotics) is that the lovenox shot is way way overdosed. At 150mg q12, I don't know what the doc is aiming for. That's well above the 1mg/kg q12 dosing for dvt/pe. I mean, single daily dosing is 1.5mg/kg... and if the pt weighs 200lb - we're talking just a hair over 80kg.

The proper dosing should be 80mg q12 or 120mg daily. This guy is getting 150mg q12??

Add to that bactrim which will potentiate coumadin's effects.... and this guy is a walking blood bomb. At any moment, he will just bleed bleed bleed.

 

[PharmDstudent]

I think the scarier part (more so than the antibiotics) is that the lovenox shot is way way overdosed. At 150mg q12, I don't know what the doc is aiming for. That's well above the 1mg/kg q12 dosing for dvt/pe. I mean, single daily dosing is 1.5mg/kg... and if the pt weighs 200lb - we're talking just a hair over 80kg.

The proper dosing should be 80mg q12 or 120mg daily. This guy is getting 150mg q12??

Add to that bactrim which will potentiate coumadin's effects.... and this guy is a walking blood bomb. At any moment, he will just bleed bleed bleed.

Right... and to add insult to injury, prescribers around here were writing for Bactrim DS 2 tabs bid for 10 days. I see it every once in a while now, but I used to see the double dose quite often.

 

[pinipig523]

Right... and to add insult to injury, prescribers around here were writing for Bactrim DS 2 tabs bid for 10 days. I see it every once in a while now, but I used to see the double dose quite often.

Unless they're actively fighting PCP pneumonia, there's no reason for 1600 of bactrim bid.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Unless they're actively fighting PCP pneumonia, there's no reason for 1600 of bactrim bid.

They're using it for staph soft tissue infections, of all things.

 

[Ackj]

They're using it for staph soft tissue infections, of all things.

I actually think I saw that once for caMRSA ssti. Was quite a while ago, but I remember the pharmacist calling and asking what the heck they were treating.

 

[PharmaTope]

everyone is mad for this guy running his pharmacy like a business? everyone is pissed off because they want to deny the reality of where pharmacy is going.

enough already, you all should have seen this coming a long time ago. i have posted on these boards about this for far too long. many others have done the same. when someone posts these back to reality threads, everyone jumps and attacks. pharmacist salaries are going down, like it not. you can try to deny it all you want but eventually it will hit you. your employer will come to you and say, we are cutting salaries and you have the option to stay or not. if not we will terminate you for the good of profit and hire a person for lower wage.

give it some short time people, this is coming. why would you pay 1 person 110k a year to do "pharmaceutical services" when you can hire 2 people for 85k and double the productivity and increase your profit? you spent an additional 60k, but were able to double productivity and possibly profit. sounds like a smart move to me.

start learning supply and demand economics. most pharmacies make their money off front end sales (unless specialty pharm). with that being said, the pharmacy itself is a commodity to draw in more sales to the front end. pharmacy isn'twhat it was in the 1960s. the sooner people accept this, the sooner they can figure out how to survive.

MTM is over, give it up
APhA is over give it up
accept the fate that is pharmacy and push for new legislation. pharmacists collectively never unite and in fact i never seen a group of professionals that are so self deprecating and not unified. most pharmacists would cut another person out from under their feet to survive in this economy.

retail pharmacy has changed drastically and you are just another number. accept this and look at your job this way; it will change your whole outlook on how you approach work.