MD Californian cookie cutter seeks compatible school list

[hellanutella]

Basics: CA resident / 21 / ORM / bio major / CA state school / graduating 2014
(Yes, I am a Californian cookie cutter).

Scores: MCAT 39 (12/12/15) – cGPA: 3.99; sGPA: 3.99

EC spiel:
Clinical, Shadowing, Volunteering
400 hours hospital volunteering
50 hours volunteering at health clinic
200 hours volunteering at nonprofit
400 hours volunteering at nonprofit with minor leadership
150+ hours scribe – will continue through gap year
80 hours shadowing (MD only) across 6 specialties

Research
50 hours entry-level research – nothing superb
1000+ hours "unique" research experience – worked way up, paid, several intra-institutional posters, one abstract
400 hrs summer research fellowship

Like a huge chunk of SDN, I'm in the whole "not published" limbo. On one completed manuscript (big paper, middle author) and writing one right now (small paper, first author). Even if either are accepted, it will most likely be after I have submitted my app.

Miscellany
Countless hours (~5 years) creative arts job
Deans list, PBK, one research grant, a few published non-research essays. Somewhat interesting hobbies.

Pitfalls
No campus involvement, clubs, or research at home institution. I lived far off campus (at home) to help care for a family member and worked all four years... so I took night courses and crammed daytime classes back-to-back.
I think my faculty LORs will be "okay" but not "awe-inspiring." However, I believe the LORs from my PIs and pre-med counsellor's committee letter will be very strong.

Schools
UCSF, UCLA, UCI, UCSD, UCD, UCR (?) – no ties to the IE, USC, Stanford (dream on)
_________
OHSU, UA – Phoenix, Colorado, UCF, Miami, Vermont, Georgetown, George Washington,
Wake Forest, Jefferson, Temple, SUNY Stony Brook, SUNY Downstate, NYMC, Hofstra,
Albert Einstein, Icahn/Mt. Sinai, Tufts....?
_________
Really overwhelmed with the MSAR at the moment. I have no family in the US aside from my parents, so I can't really bank on any state ties.

And so...
I'm looking for a decent list of OOS schools – preferably ones that have sound research opportunities. I'm not sure if I should throw in OOS "reaches" or if the CA schools I have are enough of a reach as is. (Technically, all med schools are a reach... so I don't know how big I should dream).

Thanks in advance for any assistance! And sorry for my huge wall of text.

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[BestDoctorEver]

Basics: CA resident / 21 / ORM / bio major / CA state school / graduating 2014
(Yes, I am a Californian cookie cutter).

Scores: MCAT 39 (12/12/15) – cGPA: 3.99; sGPA: 3.99

EC spiel:
Clinical, Shadowing, Volunteering
400 hours hospital volunteering
50 hours volunteering at health clinic
200 hours volunteering at nonprofit
400 hours volunteering at nonprofit with minor leadership
150+ hours scribe – will continue through gap year
80 hours shadowing (MD only) across 6 specialties

Research
50 hours entry-level research – nothing superb
1000+ hours "unique" research experience – worked way up, paid, several intra-institutional posters, one abstract
400 hrs summer research fellowship

Like a huge chunk of SDN, I'm in the whole "not published" limbo. On one completed manuscript (big paper, middle author) and writing one right now (small paper, first author). Even if either are accepted, it will most likely be after I have submitted my app.

Miscellany
Countless hours (~5 years) creative arts job
Deans list, PBK, one research grant, a few published non-research essays. Somewhat interesting hobbies.

Pitfalls
No campus involvement, clubs, or research at home institution. I lived far off campus (at home) to help care for a family member and worked all four years... so I took night courses and crammed daytime classes back-to-back.
I think my faculty LORs will be "okay" but not "awe-inspiring." However, I believe the LORs from my PIs and pre-med counsellor's committee letter will be very strong.

Schools
UCSF, UCLA, UCI, UCSD, UCD, UCR (?) – no ties to the IE, USC, Stanford (dream on)
_________
OHSU, UA – Phoenix, Colorado, UCF, Miami, Vermont, Georgetown, George Washington,
Wake Forest, Jefferson, Temple, SUNY Stony Brook, SUNY Downstate, NYMC, Hofstra,
Albert Einstein, Icahn/Mt. Sinai, Tufts....?
_________
Really overwhelmed with the MSAR at the moment. I have no family in the US aside from my parents, so I can't really bank on any state ties.

And so...
I'm looking for a decent list of OOS schools – preferably ones that have sound research opportunities. I'm not sure if I should throw in OOS "reaches" or if the CA schools I have are enough of a reach as is. (Technically, all med schools are a reach... so I don't know how big I should dream).

Thanks in advance for any assistance! And sorry for my huge wall of text.

I wonder what a good CA applicant is like if you are a cookie cutter... If you are not an automaton, pick your school since you are competitive for every single US medical.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I wonder what a good CA applicant is like if you are a cookie cutter... If you are not an automaton, pick your school since you are competitive for every single US medical.

It's faking humility so you don't get judged because you know you're good.

I agree with this guy. Apply anywhere in the country. No need to waste money on the safety type schools beyond 2 or 3.

 

[solitarius]

You should stick to T-20 and mid-tiers. I'd say it's likely lower-tier schools and some mids will auto-reject you b/c that's how the game goes.

I don't envy your position of having to aim for T-20 though.

 

[hellanutella]

@BestDoctorEver , @AlbinoHawk DO , @solitarius

Thanks a bunch for your input!

I know my raw stats look good on paper, but I'm just worried that my ECs don't have enough "oomph" or "uniqueness" to warrant a T10 acceptance. And there's always tales of people with 3.8+/35+ that sink due to an overly-ambitious school list.

I guess I'll shoot for the T20 and mid-tiers but pepper in some lower-ranked ones and a few high-reaches. Thanks again!

 

[DokterMom]

Your creative arts job isn't 'cookie cutter' -- Make sure it's highly visible.
Also play up your 'work for a living' and 'take care of relative' angles.
And how anyone with a 39 MCAT and >3.8 GPA can call themselves 'cookie cutter' - well, those are some cookies!

Solitarius's advice to not bother with 'safeties' is scary but, IMO, on target. Your numbers are superb, and 'safety schools' know you'll have other acceptances to choose from (unless you're a complete dork), so they won't waste their resources on you. Aim for:

Top 20s you'd actually like to go to
California schools
"Stat ******"
a few 'upper mid tiers' in desirable locations

 

[hellanutella]

Your creative arts job isn't 'cookie cutter' -- Make sure it's highly visible.
Also play up your 'work for a living' and 'take care of relative' angles.
And how anyone with a 39 MCAT and >3.8 GPA can call themselves 'cookie cutter' - well, those are some cookies!

Solitarius's advice to not bother with 'safeties' is scary but, IMO, on target. Your numbers are superb, and 'safety schools' know you'll have other acceptances to choose from (unless you're a complete dork), so they won't waste their resources on you. Aim for:

Top 20s you'd actually like to go to
California schools
"Stat ******"
a few 'upper mid tiers' in desirable locations

Thank you very much! I'd like to think of myself as a "gourmet cookie." And I'll try not to be a complete dork hahaha.

You guys have been very informative; I really appreciate your input.

 

[Patros]

Just to chime in, I concur with the others: apply to the competitive schools and watch out for the schools with average mcat of 31-33. I noticed you include no Ivy leagues, how come?

In particular, be wary of NYMC, Georgetown, GWU, Jefferson, Drexel, and Temple. You will almost certainly be put "On hold" for a lot of these schools, to test your conviction. My stats weren't nearly as good as yours (3.85, 35) and I was put on hold or out right rejected pre-interview at these schools while simultaneously receiving II's at more competitive schools.

I would also not bother with the OOS state schools like Stony or Downstate.

As alternatives in Pennsylvania, consider UPitt.
In NY, consider URoch.

I didn't mention the very competitive schools (Ivies, Hopkins, Duke, UChicago, etc) because I'll leave that up to you. Also seriously consider WashU since they have the reputation for loving high-stats people.

 

[hellanutella]

Just to chime in, I concur with the others: apply to the competitive schools and watch out for the schools with average mcat of 31-33. I noticed you include no Ivy leagues, how come?

In particular, be wary of NYMC, Georgetown, GWU, Jefferson, Drexel, and Temple. You will almost certainly be put "On hold" for a lot of these schools, to test your conviction. My stats weren't nearly as good as yours (3.85, 35) and I was put on hold or out right rejected pre-interview at these schools while simultaneously receiving II's at more competitive schools.

I would also not bother with the OOS state schools like Stony or Downstate.

As alternatives in Pennsylvania, consider UPitt.
In NY, consider URoch.

I didn't mention the very competitive schools (Ivies, Hopkins, Duke, UChicago, etc) because I'll leave that up to you. Also seriously consider WashU since they have the reputation for loving high-stats people.

I go to a low-ranked state school (4-year graduation rate of ~10%) – do the Ivies look for a good undergrad pedigree or will my non-prestigious school have little bearing on my app? If the latter is the case, then I'd love to spring for some top schools.

I know the whole undergrad reputation fiasco is hotly debated on SDN, but I haven't been able to find much information on MDapps regarding people in my situation (high stats, not-so-posh undergrad). Most med school applicants at my uni either shoot for DO or come from high-ranked undergrads and are completing a career-changer postbac. Personally, I feel that my education has been of comparable quality to my friends at Berkeley, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that is liable to start a argument on here...

Once again, thanks a bunch for your advice and congratulations on your interviews!

 

[487806]

I go to a low-ranked state school (4-year graduation rate of ~10%) – do the Ivies look for a good undergrad pedigree or will my non-prestigious school have little bearing on my app? If the latter is the case, then I'd love to spring for some top schools.

I know the whole undergrad reputation fiasco is hotly debated on SDN, but I haven't been able to find much information on MDapps regarding people in my situation (high stats, not-so-posh undergrad). Most med school applicants at my uni either shoot for DO or come from high-ranked undergrads and are completing a career-changer postbac. Personally, I feel that my education has been of comparable quality to my friends at Berkeley, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that is liable to start a argument on here...

Once again, thanks a bunch for your advice and congratulations on your interviews!

Where you attend UG doesn't matter for the most part. Yes, few top schools love Ivy League graduates, but they'll still open to all applicants. I think you're strong for Top 20 and mid-tier schools.

 

[Patros]

I go to a low-ranked state school (4-year graduation rate of ~10%) – do the Ivies look for a good undergrad pedigree or will my non-prestigious school have little bearing on my app? If the latter is the case, then I'd love to spring for some top schools.

I know the whole undergrad reputation fiasco is hotly debated on SDN, but I haven't been able to find much information on MDapps regarding people in my situation (high stats, not-so-posh undergrad). Most med school applicants at my uni either shoot for DO or come from high-ranked undergrads and are completing a career-changer postbac. Personally, I feel that my education has been of comparable quality to my friends at Berkeley, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that is liable to start a argument on here...

Once again, thanks a bunch for your advice and congratulations on your interviews!

I would be lying if I said that undergrad pedigree plays no part, but I suspect that once you have GPA>3.9 and MCAT>36 (not to mention considerable research experience), you shouldn't be hindered by your undergrad's prestige. If anyone doubts the quality of your education, you can point out your 99.9th percentile MCAT and tell em to suck it.

Also there's nothing weak about your EC's. Nobody cares about what clubs you are in, it's your clinical exposure and altruistic personality that adcoms are looking for. Besides, your application looks ideal for the research-heavy schools. Unfortunately, most of these schools are on the East coast or Midwest, so it's up to you to decide which ones you are willing to fly to interview for.

Edit: Just realized your 1000+ hrs experience isn't at your home institution, and it's "unique"? So it's not wet lab-work? Not that it matters; as long as it is scholarly activity, being medically relevant is only a plus.

 

[justAstudent]

Aim high my friend, aim high. I'm so jelly of you!

 

[hellanutella]

I would be lying if I said that undergrad pedigree plays no part, but I suspect that once you have GPA>3.9 and MCAT>36 (not to mention considerable research experience), you shouldn't be hindered by your undergrad's prestige. If anyone doubts the quality of your education, you can point out your 99.9th percentile MCAT and tell em to suck it.

Also there's nothing weak about your EC's. Nobody cares about what clubs you are in, it's your clinical exposure and altruistic personality that adcoms are looking for. Besides, your application looks ideal for the research-heavy schools. Unfortunately, most of these schools are on the East coast or Midwest, so it's up to you to decide which ones you are willing to fly to interview for.

Edit: Just realized your 1000+ hrs experience isn't at your home institution, and it's "unique"? So it's not wet lab-work? Not that it matters; as long as it is scholarly activity, being medically relevant is only a plus.

Gotcha. I think I'll pony up the cash and toss a few research-heavy juggernauts and some Ivies to the list... and hope for the best.
Thanks a lot!

Aim high my friend, aim high. I'm so jelly of you!

Awh, thank you! I'm crossing my fingers for a good cycle, but we'll see what happens.

 

[justAstudent]

I'm sure you'll be fine. Good luck!

 

[DokterMom]

Ah... So 'low prestige' in CA -- a CSU rather than a UC?
In that case, some of the top CA schools actually might get a little sniffy, but your MCAT clearly demonstrates that you've got the intellect to run with the big dogs. So why didn't you? I imagine that question will be asked, and you should have an answer prepared. For east coast and non-CA schools, it will probably be less of a problem since they won't be as familiar with the CA tiering.

You may also want to apply to the Texas schools. Even though there's a huge in-state bias, when they accept OOS students, they like high numbers. And tuition is so low (even OOS often get IS tuition), yield-protection is less of a problem. There's also a fair amount of CA to TX migration.

 

[hellanutella]

Ah... So 'low prestige' in CA -- a CSU rather than a UC?
In that case, some of the top CA schools actually might get a little sniffy, but your MCAT clearly demonstrates that you've got the intellect to run with the big dogs. So why didn't you? I imagine that question will be asked, and you should have an answer prepared. For east coast and non-CA schools, it will probably be less of a problem since they won't be as familiar with the CA tiering.

You may also want to apply to the Texas schools. Even though there's a huge in-state bias, when they accept OOS students, they like high numbers. And tuition is so low (even OOS often get IS tuition), yield-protection is less of a problem. There's also a fair amount of CA to TX migration.

Correct. I couldn't attend a top school since I was still needed to help out at home (I have a family member with a chronic illness) and I didn't have a UC within a commutable distance. I'm thinking I will address this in my PS, since it had a significant influence on my desire to pursue medicine. Thankfully, my family member's condition is currently under medical control.

Good suggestion – I hadn't even looked at the Texan schools. I see that some TX schools are required to maintain a 90% instate acceptance rate, but if I am able to squeeze in to that lucky 10% I would love to benefit from that low tuition/cost of living.

Thank you once again!

 

[hellanutella]

Sorry for bumping the thread again, but I put together a school list that needs some whittling down. If I'm missing any gems, please let me know! I cut out schools with coursework/LOR requirements I couldn't fulfil via MSAR (looking at you, Jefferson).

Also wondering if this list is too top-heavy. I'm having a hard time finding lower-ranked schools without low OOS acceptance rates or very specific mission statements. My app has a bit of a research slant to it, and I'm leaning towards academic medicine.

Stats Below 90th Percentile
Stanford
JHop
UMich
Duke
Columbia
Yale
Icahn/Mt. Sinai
UChi Pritzker

Stats Around 90th Percentile
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UCI
USC
Baylor
NYU
Cornell
Dartmouth
Colorado
UPitt
Wake Forest
Northwestern

Stats Above 90th Percentile
UCD
OHSU
Vermont
Arizona – Phoenix
Arizona – Tucson
Georgetown
Tufts
BU
Einstein
UMiami
UCF

But in all seriousness, thank you all so much. This site has proven immensely helpful these past few months.

 

[Goro]

Nothing wrong with aiming high!

Sorry for bumping the thread again, but I put together a school list that needs some whittling down. If I'm missing any gems, please let me know! I cut out schools with coursework/LOR requirements I couldn't fulfil via MSAR (looking at you, Jefferson).

Also wondering if this list is too top-heavy. I'm having a hard time finding lower-ranked schools without low OOS acceptance rates or very specific mission statements. My app has a bit of a research slant to it, and I'm leaning towards academic medicine.
Stats Below 90th Percentile
Stanford
JHop
UMich
Duke
Columbia
Yale
Icahn/Mt. Sinai
UChi Pritzker

Stats Around 90th Percentile
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UCI
USC
Baylor
NYU
Cornell
Dartmouth
Colorado
UPitt
Wake Forest
Northwestern
Stats Above 90th Percentile
UCD
OHSU
Vermont
Arizona – Phoenix
Arizona – Tucson
Georgetown
Tufts
BU
Einstein
UMiami
UCF

But in all seriousness, thank you all so much. This site has proven immensely helpful these past few months.

 

[hellanutella]

Nothing wrong with aiming high!

Thank you, Goro!

I really appreciate all the input you provide on these forums.

 

[tarheel1408]

I'll basically chime in with the same thing other posters have said - you can apply anywhere in the country you like. It's likely you'll be accepted to at least one top 10 school, if not more.