Came across this forum & absolutely terrified about future

[greenranger510]

Hello,

I came across this forum today and got a cold, hard slap of reality... I am graduating this week with a b.a. in psychology and thought my future was much more simple than I thought. I had no clue about internship acceptance rates, and all the different hurdles described by dozens of posts I have been reading throughout the day. I have the typical sob story of the first generation, english as a 2nd language, mex. american with no direction to explain my dismal grades, but Ill get to the point.

I have a 2.7 GPA. I am an Autism support behavioral "therapist", a paid research assistant at my psychology dept., and will hopefully be published this summer. Before coming across SDN, my plans were to spend the summer studying for the GRE, getting the highest score possible, and continue my psychology related jobs in hopes that they would offset my terrible GPA. I had my eye on psy.d. or phd.d programs, but now I think I may need to alter these plans.

Are my plans at all viable? Are my goals unreasonable considering my history? I am not pessimistic by any means. I know my potential, and know I will get a great GRE score; but the doubts still linger.

Thank you all very much for your time & advice. I cannot believe the wealth of knowledge and support I see on this forum.

Best wishes,
Alan

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[BuckeyeLove]

I had no clue about internship acceptance rates, and all the different hurdles described by dozens of posts

i know this has been said before (and this is not really a direct response to your post), but ^^^^this ^^^^ all of these "hurdles" should not be an issue........should you attend a quality program.

 

[PsyDr]

Most programs have a minimum gpa requirement of 3.0, tacitly because two Cs in grad school will get you kicked out. Admissions has to find a way to cut down on the hundreds of applications they receive for a limited number of seats. GPA is an easy way to do that. I would doubt that those applications get further review.

 

[CircadianSleep]

There's no reason to alter your long-term career plans (i.e., admission to PhD or PsyD). The only thing you may need to alter is delaying your application a year to boost the GPA above 3.0.

Take a week and research your top 15-20 (or so) ideal programs. Look online or email the department directly regarding minimum GPA requirements. If the majority will exclude you before looking at your application, take a year to boost your GPA in lieu of psychology-related job experience. If you feel you have a really good research fit (PhD programs) at a program that doesn't have a GPA cutoff, I'd recommend being proactive to your best abilities. This means reading the faculty member(s) publications, coming up with a few research ideas, projects, or thoughts on what you can bring to their lab if admitted, and get in touch with them directly by email to express your interest and ask whether they will be accepting new students for the year you would be entering. I was extremely proactive and discussed my specific research plans at length with all faculty members during my interviews. This little bit of initiative (compared to the years of hard work you've put in so far) goes a long, long way. Showing initiative now is a great way to reassure these programs and your future faculty mentor that you'll take similar initiative as a grad student.

What admissions committees want to know is that you can survive and thrive given the rigors of graduate coursework, clinical training, research productivity (etc). This means, in part, getting good grades. However, my program (clinical psych PhD) stresses research publications as the primary focus. As one of my professors summarized it: "B + B = PhD." This is just to say that grades aren't everything. If you're confident in your abilities and the direction you want your career to go, be sure to highlight these aspects in your application and interviews. Bottom line: do your homework and make sure you will be competitive this application cycle.

If you do some research and conclude your GPA will be a huge stumbling block, take a year to boost it up and apply when you're competitive. My main suggestion is to NOT settle on an alternative career path than what you're truly interested in. I've seen other people completely alter their career paths (e.g., settling on a Master's degree when they wanted a doctorate) simply because it would take them another 6 months - 1 year or an additional application cycle after failing to get admitted on their first try. Take a step back and look at the next 40+ years of your career. Taking time to make sure you get the tools and training necessary to have the career you truly want is the most important thing.

Your goals are viable and not unreasonable. Apologies for the length of this reply, but I really feel passionate that people don't shortchange themselves regarding their future. Do your homework, be proactive, boost the GPA if necessary, and keep posting to this forum. We're all here for you. I'm just starting my second year in grad school, so let me know if you have any admission / application-specific questions. More than happy to help.

 

[MCParent]

I have a 2.7 GPA.

You'll have rough going without getting that up.

However, lots of good applicants have rough first years (I did!). There's a big difference between someone who maintains a 2.9 all through college, and someone who barely avoids getting kicked out of school in their first year then comes around with straight As in their other years, even if it doesn't totally recover the damage from the first year. The former student demonstrates that they are only capable of average work, while the second demonstrates that they are capable of strong work. Recovering your GPA as much as possible, and then having other markers of ability (publications, presentations, strong letters, etc.) can make a funded program still viable.

It sounds like you're fairly far along, though, so recovering your GPA might not be possible. A strong masters program that lets you do research would help, I think.

 

[WisNeuro]

What MCP said. See as that you are graduating this week, the assumption is that your GPA is what it is. At this point the viable option is go the masters route and absolutely destroy the GRE when you take it, making sure that you get very solid research experience along the way. I'd recommend against the diploma mill route unless you're comfortable with a constant struggle (getting an internship, obtaining licensure, getting a job, etc) and lifelong crushing debt.

 

[deleted343839]

I agree with MCParent & WisNeuro. More effort on the front end will pay off in the long run as you'll be more competitive for strong, funded programs that have a good track record of producing successful graduates. A master's program is a good idea.

 

[entitlement]

My undergraduate GPA was very similar to yours when I applied to PhD programs and I also come from a similar background to you (e.g., first generation college student, Latino, immigrant parents, and English wasn't my first language). I ended up getting into my top choice program and also getting offers at R01s, but it took a lot of work on my part to get there.

I will echo what other people said - getting into a Master's program and doing very well in it will go a long way to strengthening your application (as well as doing as well as you can on the GRE, and i'd even suggest taking the Psyc GRE if your GPA is low for your psych major). Stay away from any of the diploma mill schools, even if people tell you that you have a chance to get in. It is much more worth it in the long run to spend the next 2-3 years building up your CV and getting that GPA up, then to run to a diploma mill school.

Also, you might want to consider whether you even need a PsyD/PhD for what you want to do. A MSW may get you the positions you are interested in. Feel free to message me and we can chat more if its helpful.

 

[calimich]

My undergrad GPA and personal background are also similar to yours. Earning a Master's is one way to strengthen your application -- there are others. Before being admitted to a funded PhD program I worked and excelled in a related field and lived and worked outside the US for several years. During that time I focused my research interests and gained clarity on what I wanted out of a career as a psychologist.

Like CircadianSleep said, admission committees want to feel confident you can thrive, not merely survive, in the program and they want to admit students who will add value to the department. I imagine you have a slightly different personal narrative to offer compared to the typical PhD applicant. Accentuate your strengths, shore up weaknesses. Avoid diploma mills. And crushing the GRE won't hurt. Feel free to PM me id you'd like.

 

[neuroflail]

My undergraduate GPA was very similar to yours when I applied to PhD programs and I also come from a similar background to you (e.g., first generation college student, Latino, immigrant parents, and English wasn't my first language). I ended up getting into my top choice program and also getting offers at R01s, but it took a lot of work on my part to get there.

I will echo what other people said - getting into a Master's program and doing very well in it will go a long way to strengthening your application (as well as doing as well as you can on the GRE, and i'd even suggest taking the Psyc GRE if your GPA is low for your psych major). Stay away from any of the diploma mill schools, even if people tell you that you have a chance to get in. It is much more worth it in the long run to spend the next 2-3 years building up your CV and getting that GPA up, then to run to a diploma mill school.

Also, you might want to consider whether you even need a PsyD/PhD for what you want to do. A MSW may get you the positions you are interested in. Feel free to message me and we can chat more if its helpful.

I have to agree on avoiding "diploma mill" schools, as I have personally struggled because I am at a program that has that perception to it. I did all the right things in undergrad; 3.8 GPA, 4.0 GPA in psych coursework, participated in research labs, did independent research and presented it at conferences, participated in psych student organizations, the works. When it came time to consider grad school I was told that I had zero chance of being accepted to a PhD program because of my GRE quantitative scores. I asked if getting my Master's first would help, and was told that it would not help without retaking the GRE and scoring significantly better on the quantitative. So I went for-profit PsyD and now I am struggling to place at practicum sites, am non-competitive for internship, and have not been unable continue with any graduate research because my program has no access to clinical populations or archival data. So I would do anything possible to avoid unfunded, for-profit PsyD programs.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I have to agree on avoiding "diploma mill" schools, as I have personally struggled because I am at a program that has that perception to it. I did all the right things in undergrad; 3.8 GPA, 4.0 GPA in psych coursework, participated in research labs, did independent research and presented it at conferences, participated in psych student organizations, the works. When it came time to consider grad school I was told that I had zero chance of being accepted to a PhD program because of my GRE quantitative scores. I asked if getting my Master's first would help, and was told that it would not help without retaking the GRE and scoring significantly better on the quantitative. So I went for-profit PsyD and now I am struggling to place at practicum sites, am non-competitive for internship, and have not been unable continue with any graduate research because my program has no access to clinical populations or archival data. So I would do anything possible to avoid unfunded, for-profit PsyD programs.

Based on what you've said in other posts, I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say you aren't competitive for internship. Can the name of a school hurt you, perhaps significantly at some sites, when applying for internship? Yes. Will it automatically disqualify you from many, if any, sites? Likely not.

Although I do agree with the general sentiment that avoiding "diploma mill" schools is a very good plan, for many of the reasons you've pointed out (e.g., limited quality practica spots available and perhaps training resources as a whole, the stigma of the name, etc.). But in your case specifically, I'd suggest you apply to internship sites to which you're interested, as well as a number of "safety" sites, and go from there.

To the OP: as others have mentioned, the GPA is going to be a limiting factor as it currently stands. If you can raise it above 3.0 while scoring competitively on the GRE, then I'd suggest applying to 10-15 grad programs with which you're a good fit, in addition to some of masters programs as a Plan B. For the latter, if the ultimate goal is a doctorate, then looking for research-heavy masters programs (which may not grant a licensable degree) would be your best bet.

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

I agree with everyone else. Get your GPA up ASAP. A good option is to do a post-bacc. or a Masters in psychology where you can get a higher GPA and even conduct research/write a thesis

 

[deleted760483]

Think about going Master's first. In many cases it only extends your education by about a year rather than two as many programs will accept transfer credits, and it may actually save you some money. Your undergrad GPA will be of less concern to doctoral programs if you have more recent, better grades in a Masters program. That's the path I took, I had mediocre undergrad grads but got a 3.8 in my Masters program. Doctoral programs asked me about the discrepancy, I was honest that I had some personal struggles in undergrad which impacted my performance and were no longer an issue, and I got in to a good PsyD program

 

[deleted343839]

In many cases it only extends your education by about a year rather than two as many programs will accept transfer credits, and it may actually save you some money.

You can't count on being able to transfer credits. Many (perhaps most?) doctoral programs will not accept coursework from a master's program. They're going to want to train you their way.

The only way I could see the master's as a worthwhile economic investment is if it helps you secure a spot in a funded doctoral program.

 

[Sendtrees]

The same sob story that led to your dismal grades (these are the OP's words) may help you get into a decent program. You just need to be able to demonstrate that you have worked on the internal issues that kept you from succeeding (at the blunt-instrument level of GPA) in college. So I think you need some time to demonstrate that. Whether you take an additional year of post-bacc classes just to show a pumped up GPA, or an MA program, or even another year or two of intensive RA work. But if you haven't addressed the internal barriers, getting into a PhD program will be the easiest part--it's really hard to write a dissertation if you're self-defeating, conflicted about success, guilty about surpassing one's origins, or...whatever it is you need to overcome.

(I'm pretending for your sake that for-profit, unfunded PsyD programs don't exist.)

 

[Justanothergrad]

You can't count on being able to transfer credits. Many (perhaps most?) doctoral programs will not accept coursework from a master's program. They're going to want to train you their way.

The only way I could see the master's as a worthwhile economic investment is if it helps you secure a spot in a funded doctoral program.

I think the term 'transfer' is a bad term for it since its a waiver. The issue isn't using credit granted for another degree (you can't), its about demonstrating competence. Some programs are more open to that than others for sure. Mine was very open to it and, in doing so, let me spend my time specializing elsewhere. Most of the programs I interviewed at were like that, but I was mindful of looking for info on that during the application process. Many won't, for sure but I'm not sure that is always a good training move. We'll probably see more of a move towards accepting it as the new COA standards are brought into play. They allow for less coursework in the doc program, emphasizing approving other coursework taken before if appropriate.

 

[Lurking Oracle]

Stay FAR AWAY from diploma mills. Sure, the for-profit mills will gladly admit you and gladly take your money (through student loans or otherwise; it does not matter to them). But, after you EVENTUALLY get your degree (because such programs might have an interest in making sure that you do not get out too quickly...), you still will be faced with needing to get a real internship, postdoc hours (increasingly from an institutionally based organized postdoc residency/fellowship), LICENSE (note: diploma mill folks seem to need multiple attempts at passing the national Psyc 101 Final Exam - sorry, I meant to say the EPPP), and then getting that first non-training job. Sadly, having a "degree" from a diploma mill will shut you out of many opportunities -- without your even knowing it -- until it is many years and a couple of hundred thousand dollars too late. Sorry to sound harsh, but this is the playing field, and I agree with the consensus: getting a good RESEARCH-ORIENTED psychology masters (with an awesome GPA) is your best bet, and blowing the doors off the GRE is absolutely imperative.

 

[PsyDr]

 

[Lurking Oracle]

But, but... Dr. Nick Riviera still gets to be called "Doctor," right? So, that means he is just as good! And besides... he only ever wanted to do private practice, so his patients should be just fine with the fact that his training was from Hollywood Upstairs Medical School. Those silly private practice patients don't need someone that had to deal with icky stats & evidence-based training, while producing original contributions to psychological science, AND still logging more hours of supervised clinical training! No, those folks accessing services through private practice or community behavioral health venues should be content with the Dr. Nick types. What do they know? Or deserve?

 

[singasongofjoy]

I haven't read all the other replies above so there may be some overlap in what I say but here's my 2cents: Your background (GPA not withstanding) can be a real asset to the application process and your work in general. If you don't get in this round, it's OK! SO MANY people apply multiple times before going to a PhD program) so that what you do in the next couple of years will show you have a real sense of purpose (e.g., try to find work that you can spin to somehow relate to psych); you may also consider getting a MA/MS first which will give you a clean GPA slate and also show direction & purpose. I like your idea of studying hard for the GREs- the degree of weight programs/advisors give to each component varies widely. At many programs GPA and GRE requirements are mostly used as a cutoff for the many applications they receive so if your GPA (or MA/MS GPA should you go that route) is above their cutoff, go ahead and apply! I strongly feel your background can be such a huge asset to your future work and the field (and, thus, your application process because involved psychologists woudl likely recognize this from your application). Don't be discouraged if you don't get in the first time you apply. Consider work/master's options in the meantime to make you a stronger candidate and don't give up if you are truly passionate about pursuing a career in psych. Of course, a BA in psych can be a good stepping stone to other avenues as well, such as Rehabilitation Counseling (for one of many) and there are so many difft branches of psych, some more competitive to get into programs than others (e.g,. school, clinical, IO, bio, experimental psych and more branches) so before you start the process of applying you shoudl have a relatively clear direction of what you want to do with your career, broadly speaking (resaerch? clinical work? work in a school/community? working for industry/business?) Folks on this forum prob have lots of helpful thoughts about that if you're still figuring that part out. A doctoral program in ANYTHING is too long, expensive, and emotionally/psychologically demanding to make it through if you're not really passionate about it, so I advise everyone to take time to feel pretty certain about the direction you want to go. And stay away from diploma mills & unfunded programs... far, far away.

 

[deleted343839]

But, but... Dr. Nick Riviera still gets to be called "Doctor," right? So, that means he is just as good! And besides... he only ever wanted to do private practice, so his patients should be just fine with the fact that his training was from Hollywood Upstairs Medical School.

Well, Hollywood Upstairs Medical School is known worldwide for their innovative and holistic models of practice and intuitive methods of inquiry, which you can't find at most traditional schools. It's for those forward-thinking, global-minded types, you know? Probably you're just jealous of them.

 

[DrMikeP]

I just posted in another thread about what to consider when looking at a PsyD program. It's not an exhaustive list but it's a start. Not all are bad but many are terrible. Some you can be quite successful at and some will take your money and not say thanks, so do your homework!

 

[Lurking Oracle]

I just posted in another thread about what to consider when looking at a PsyD program. It's not an exhaustive list but it's a start. Not all are bad but many are terrible. Some you can be quite successful at and some will take your money and not say thanks, so do your homework!

I just read DrMikeP's post on the CIIS thread and agree completely. I would also add that applicants should ask each program where their grads place in terms of postdoc residencies, and also post-licensure positions. And, not to be cynical (OK, I am cynical), ask them to identify these people by name. This is not PHI, folks. Where a licensed psychologist went to school and currently works is not protected information. Do not simply take a program's word if they claim that "All of our graduates have landed awesome jobs!" Granted, newer programs might legitimately not be able to provide longer-term stats ("distal outcomes," to use APA parlance), but if a program has been around for ten years and can't/won't gladly share this info with you... RUN! (P.S. APA-accredited programs are required to track this information, so do not believe a program that says that they do not know what happens to folks after graduation. Non-APA-accredited programs can do whatever they want, and that is why you should avoid them).