Can Anyone Tell Me About Fielding University

[JackD]

I have a feeling i may regret starting this thread but after receiving an information packet from the school, I can't quite figure out what kind of university this is. Is it distance learning, like capella, is it a mix like Argosy, is it like neither?

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[deleted176373]

I have a feeling i may regret starting this thread but after receiving an information packet from the school, I can't quite figure out what kind of university this is. Is it distance learning, like capella, is it a mix like Argosy, is it like neither?

Ummmm, ya... Ummm kay. It's not all gonna be pretty.

Let's put it this way, it's probably somewhere about on par with Forrest, Argosy, and some others in that range. There are some upsides and some downsides.

The upsides, they have real faculty. It's not staffed by a bunch of their own graduates, to me that's a good sign. The faculty is diverse and well educated most having attended APA accredited programs and internships. They are accredited, which is a good thing overall and they offer what appears to be a distance learning model.

The downsides!

1. It took 9.2 years on average to complete the degree program, with less than 1 in 4 completing the program in less than 6 years!
2. It's $20,000 per year, with no likely outside support for tuition.
3. 40% of the graduates did not get an accredited internship and 40% did not get funded internships!
4. Attrition exceeds 30% (according to them from 2002-2006), last year's incoming class was 50 people and the number who dropped out of the program was 40!

The above statistics would raise some SERIOUS red flags. Red flags that would make me seek out graduates or students of the program to get the real unbiased story from. There is no point in spending 4 or 5 years of your life and 80 to 100,000 dollars to find out that you are going to not make it through a program because of financial or other constraints only to be left with a job that pays less than $100k per year.

Think about this, and think hard. My wife, with her high school education as a non-degreed software engineer was making more than most clinical psychologists. This is not a field you want to rack up a lot of debt to be in. I am being pragmatic here, no one goes into psychology to get rich, but we aren't doing it to be amongst the working poor either! The opportunity costs of spending 5-6 years and a large sum of money are worth serious consideration.

You might be better off at McDonalds. According to Salary.com the median regional restaurant manager makes $84,000 + Bonuses (DC Metro.) Hell even the store managers are getting over $50k with bonuses, compare that with an unfunded internship! I am just trying to put this in perspective.

Mark

PS - Glad to see a Fielding student responded.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

Hi Jack!

I am a third year doctoral student at Fielding and I would be happy to answer any questions you have. Let me begin by saying that I am enjoying my experience at Fielding immensely and I believe I am getting excellent training in clinical psychology, albeit in a non-traditional way. Your confusion is understandable. I really did not fully "get" the learning model and learning process until I was in the program for a few months. Fielding is NOT an online program despite what some of the promotional material might suggest. Fielding is NOT online! Instead Fielding is a non-traditional mix of guided independent study and face to face interactions with faculty in a variety of venues. Fielding came into existence before the invention of the personal computer and received APA accreditation before the Internet was used by the general public ... even though we have now have online forums and databases we can use.

This learning model is a derivation of European models of doctoral education which involve independent guided study. If you were to get a Ph.D. from a British university such as Oxford or Cambridge or the University of London or a in the British Commonwealth (New Zealand or Australia), your Ph.D. studies would consist of guided independent research culminating in a doctoral dissertation with little or no classroom attendance. Fielding is similar to a degree to that model but adapted to the North American environment.

Fielding was founded in the early 70's as a graduate school for mid-life mid-career professionals for whom a traditional academic program is not a good fit. The program was developed due to the belief on the part of the founders that middle-aged mid career persons are at a very different phase of life than younger students and their learning needs and learning styles are different. The Ph.D. program is the only non-traditional program to be accredited by the APA. Given the highly conservative nature of APA and the COA, Fielding has had to be a "cut above" in terms of quality to get and maintain APA accreditation over the past 16 years. Well at least that is my opinion based on my experiences thus far.

At Fielding we have the same set of core requirements you have in any other doctoral program. However, for the academic portion of our learning we negotiate a "learning contract" with a faculty member in which we work out how we will demonstrate our competency in the various courses such as social psychology, cognitive affective bases of behavior, biological psychology etc... The contents of the learning contract for each course have to meet certain criteria with regard to the breadth and depth of content. Typically you write papers of publication quality to demonstrate your competency. I am currently trying to get an edited version of one of my academic papers on mindfulness meditation as a treatment for depression published. The program expects more than mastery facts, it expects high level synthesis and analysis of an area of the psychological literature in our work.

However, clinical training can not be done only on the basis of guided independent study under faculty supervision. Face to face interactions are a necessity. Consequently we meet in local groups called "clusters" one weekend a month and for week long residential meetings on Santa Barbara California and the east coast for training in psychotherapy and psychological assessment. Fielding requires a minimum of 300 face to face hours of contact due to APA residency requirements. Most students get that in the first year. When I graduate I should probably have at least 1200 hours of actual face to face faculty contact.

We also have various clinical practica and have to do an APA or APPIC accredited internship. We also ahve a lively in house research program and the program requires that one get involved in a research practicum. Of course we also do a dissertation involving quantitative or qualitative analysis. In some cases, you can do a theoretical dissertation but I'd advise against it.

Fielding was designed for students who are independent learners who want a truly collaborative learning experience. The average age of a Fielding student is 44, most of us have MA or MS degrees upon admission, a clinical license at the master's level and 7-10 years of clinical experience behind us. So we don;t fit the traditional demographic. However, some of us are career change students or persons with just a BA degree so if you don't fit that demographic you can still do fine. However, the Fielding model is not for everyone. However if you are self-motivated and have prefer an active rather than a passive learning style you would do well to consider Fielding. The only downside is that it's expensive.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

In response to Mark P. A significant number of Fielding students take 9 years to graduate because of either external life pressures or they just want to take a leisurely pace. Some doctoral programs are a "wire mother" but Fielding is a "cloth mother." I know of several students who just don't want to leave the program because they are enjoying it too much! Personally I find that a bit incomprehensible but that gives you an idea of the culture of Fielding. The school has recently instituted some changes to deal with that. Until last year, Fielding had more requirements in terms of total graduate hours than any other Ph.D. program in the country. I think it used to be around 150-160 graduate hours! They recently changed the curriculum and really cut back on requirements in a significant way. I think its now about 110-120 graduate hours. I can't recall the numbers off the top of my head.

Fielding also has a lower match rate because many students have been unwilling to move across country for the year long internship. This is a self-selection issue. Fewer students match because fewer students go through the internship match and instead develop internships in their local area. Just a few months ago, Fielding has made some programmatic changes so that students will have to go through the match instead.

The attrition rate has been high for the past few years. Again this is primarily due to self-selection issues. Many students who were admitted were not appropriate for independent learning had been admitted and these folks just did not function as well in the program. Last year some programmatic changes in the admissions process and the creation of a far more structured first year have been put into place. When I came into the program, I felt quite lost initially and one of the things I and many of my friends in the program advocated for via my faculty advisor and with the administration was a far more structured set of benchmarks for students in the first year to help them adjust to the demands of the program.


Fielding is expensive. However, we are in line with most of the professional schools in the field such as Alliant. Also we get a % reduction in tuition when we hit various programmatic benchmarks. I think its a 25% tuition reduction when you pass your comps and another 50% reduction on top of that when you go on internship.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Interesting, I never knew that (pretty much everything you wrote ).

1. How do you feel about your theoretical training?
2. How 'connected' you feel with your cohort?
3. How do you handle the lack of collaboration? (Not to imply there isn't collaboration, but a large part of my learning occurred outside of the classroom while going over things with classmates, more senior students, professors, etc....so I'm curious how that may effect your peripheral education, outside of your criteria for what you need to learn)
4. Are you concerned about internship placement?
5. How many hours per week do you put in doing your work/research/studying/etc?
6. 44....wow! I know one place where the average age is 30ish with the majority of people have MS's (The Wright Institute).

-t

 

[Neuropsych2be]

Therapist4Chnge

What I am supposed to be doing on this lovely Tuesday evening is working on a paper I am publishing with my faculty adviser on prescription rights for clinical psychologists .. instead I am procrastinating with you guys!! Let me answer your questions rather than battle integrating Word with Endnote!

Theoretical training is an interesting topic because I came into the program with a cog-b orientation with a dash of constructivism thrown in. My views are evolving in a more trans-theoretical systems theory direction as I get more exposure to real psychoanalytic and psychodynamic faculty members. I mean analytic thought is so utterly friggin *rich* you can just explore it forever. However, Fielding makes a big deal of one's theoretical orientation. They ask you to declare a theoretical orientation and as part of your pre-internship evaluation you have to demonstrate your competency through taped therapy sessions and present an exposition of the recent theoretical literature associated with your stated orientation. They don't let you chose "eclectic" as a theoretical orientation despite the fact I have been doing "eclectic" therapy for years sine I left my MS program.

One of the misgivings I had about this learning model was my concern about a sense of isolation. Much to my surprise I have developed a good connection to my peers. We meet every month and chat on the phone and email one another all the time. So I feel real connected at this point in my program. I actually do a good deal of collaborative work. Alot of that is done via email or even videoconferencing... like the paper on prescriptive rights I am supposed to be working on. But one problem with this educational model is the fact that collaborative work is more difficult.

I am somewhat concerned about internship placement. We have had a low match historically mainly due to Fielding students being unwilling to relocate. Typically when we get students placed in a site the internship program is impressed and wants more of us. One of my friends ay Fielding who is further along than me has interviewed at Duke, Emory and Vanderbilt. But I do worry about how competitive internship placement has become for all doctoral students. I've done alot of things professionally, years of neuropsych testing experience, crisis intervention, individual therapy etc ... at the masters level. My MS program had a 1500 hour practicum requirement. All of thise things will help my application. I know there is the clearinghouse and all that and most people get placements eventually ... but it is a concern.

How many hours a week I work really varies. I work a full time job as a crisis intervention therapist nights and weekends which is either real slow or very very busy. I'd say I put in about 25-35 hours a week in addition to my job. And no I am not bipolar This learning model requires lots of writing, and then more writing and then more writing and thinking. I use voice dictation software to speed things up though.

The age range at Fielding runs from mid-20's to early 60's. However, most of us are around 40-45. For me, I always wanted the Ph.D. and when I turned 40 I decided that it was now or never. I did not wish to uproot my life, sell my house, return to the typical student lifestyle etc... Fielding has given me the opportunity to earn an APA approved Ph.D. and still keep those aspects of my life such as my job and home that I want to hold on to. The more interesting thing about this model is the personal transformation aspect of it. Fielding states that it is transformational. I ahve to say to my surprise that I have been growing psychologically in ways I never expected despite all the stress. I have recently been delving into Self-Determination Theory and its prediction that autonomy fosters growth and am considering a dissertation in SDT. The neat think about Fielding is the fact that the program truly treats us with enormous respect and we actually are considered colleagues in training.

 

[deleted176373]

In response to Mark P. A significant number of Fielding students take 9 years to graduate because of either external life pressures or they just want to take a leisurely pace.

Some doctoral programs are a "wire mother" but Fielding is a "cloth mother."

I know of several students who just don't want to leave the program because they are enjoying it too much!

The attrition rate has been high for the past few years. Again this is primarily due to self-selection issues. Many students who were admitted were not appropriate for independent learning had been admitted and these folks just did not function as well in the program.

They enjoy school and the accompanying debt so much that they feel paying for 9 years of school is worth it?

I do have a problem buying that. I am a bit skeptical because of the 30% attrition rate. Obviously a large portion of the students are leaving without a degree. Self-Selection or not, Fielding has a responsibility to it's students to screen them a little more effectively and it sounds like Fielding has taken some steps towards this according to your statement.

Fielding also has a lower match rate because many students have been unwilling to move across country for the year long internship. This is a self-selection issue. Fewer students match because fewer students go through the internship match and instead develop internships in their local area. Just a few months ago, Fielding has made some programmatic changes so that students will have to go through the match instead.

I know you address this concern above. I hope that for you and your peers, you get the internships you are looking for. The worst possible situation for someone in a professional program is to be on an unpaid internship and be paying tuition!

The fact remains that for whatever reason, 40% of Fielding graduates do not get paid internships and a least 10% could not find any internships. That is pretty abysmal. Especially when 80% of everyone who goes through the match and gets matched gets a top 3 choice and 45% got their top choice and 67% got one of their two choices. (I should add that 1/4 students overall don't get matched, which is shameful... but that's on APA/APPIC's shoulders.)

This would suggest that finding sites based on geographic preference is not an issue as many graduates use this as a major criteria in selecting an internship site.

Last year some programmatic changes in the admissions process and the creation of a far more structured first year have been put into place. When I came into the program, I felt quite lost initially and one of the things I and many of my friends in the program advocated for via my faculty advisor and with the administration was a far more structured set of benchmarks for students in the first year to help them adjust to the demands of the program.

Sounds like there are many changes going on in the program. Has that led to any chaos?

Fielding is expensive. However, we are in line with most of the professional schools in the field such as Alliant. Also we get a % reduction in tuition when we hit various programmatic benchmarks. I think its a 25% tuition reduction when you pass your comps and another 50% reduction on top of that when you go on internship.

It's more expensive when you factor in 9 years of tuition. Argosy D.C., for instance graduates 70% of all it's students in 5 years and 90% of it's students in 6 years. So although both are APA accredited Argosy is graduating 70% in the time Fielding graduates 12%. Argosy also managed to get ~90% of their students, on average, paid internships.

Argosy and Fielding are both expensive, it could be argued that with more courses that you learn more at Fielding. That could well be true, but, it seems that if your dream is to work in the field and not be a student in the field that other options (such as Argosy) might make more sense when it comes to a ROI.

I appreciate your response to my original post, and I am not trying to be negative, it is possible that people just enjoy Fielding so much that they are unable to move on... but then there is that 30% and the long time to completion that just nags at me. Something just doesn't quite pass the sniff test.

Mark

 

[Ollie123]

Actually given the post, I think the long time to completion is a GOOD sign.

He/she (sorry, couldn't tell) said they spend 25-35 hours a week on school stuff. That's probably half what most of us are spending. I would be very concerned if people WERE graduating in 4 years with that kind of time. I have no problems with people going part-time because they aren't at a place in their life where they can go full time PROVIDED they are staying longer and getting the same amount of training overall, just spaced out more.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Actually given the post, I think the long time to completion is a GOOD sign.

He/she (sorry, couldn't tell) said they spend 25-35 hours a week on school stuff. That's probably half what most of us are spending. I would be very concerned if people WERE graduating in 4 years with that kind of time. I have no problems with people going part-time because they aren't at a place in their life where they can go full time PROVIDED they are staying longer and getting the same amount of training overall, just spaced out more.

That was my concern also. 9 years jumped out at me, but considering the time commitment, it seems a little more in line. I can't imagine that though, since 4 years (so far) has been a grind, with another few years on the horizon.

I'm also happy to hear that their faculty is diverse and not a high % of graduates. I am always skeptical of places that hire more than a couple (core) faculty and/or have a large % of adjuncts that are home-grown.

-t

 

[JockNerd]

Some doctoral programs are a "wire mother" but Fielding is a "cloth mother."

OT: Am I the only person who tripped on this? The cloth mother was comforting, but didn't provide the baby monkey with any nourishment....

It sounds like the poor internship rate might not matter as much if people enter the program with careers they can go back to (or never left) while they wait for the next round. But, something else is going on there beyond geographical restriction. The last APPIC survey asked about restricting applications and it didn't make a difference.

 

[psychanon]

Fielding is expensive. However, we are in line with most of the professional schools in the field such as Alliant. Also we get a % reduction in tuition when we hit various programmatic benchmarks. I think its a 25% tuition reduction when you pass your comps and another 50% reduction on top of that when you go on internship.

So you have to pay ~$10,000 while you're on internship? As in, while you're working full-time for someone else and not attending the program? That's kind of messed up.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

Therapist4Chnge

No I won't be going despite my interest in the topic since I will be in Santa Barbara that week.

The stats on completion time are a bit misleading since the distribution is bimodal. Students tend to fall into two groups: those who complete in 5 years or so and those who take 10 or more. Fielding actually has some students who have been in the program for 12 years and this tends to inflate the figures a bit. Just this past year many of those students are being told to get finished or get out. Of course our tuition has gone up considerably over the past several years. Many of these students entered when the financial situation was different.

Also those folks who take forever tend to have the financial resources to do so. We have a fair number of career change students who have high paying jobs but who wish to make a change in career for personal reasons. My friend Susan who just graduated after 10 years at Fielding was a lawyer. I think I know of 5 or 6 people with law degrees changing careers to psychology. I know of three *physicians* in the Fielding Ph.D. clinical program who decided that they wanted a Ph.D. in psychology and chose Fielding because they can maintain their medical practices. I know it seems hard to believe but I know them, have had lunch with them. These students tend to be the ones who stay forever because they can afford to. Me I'm getting along as fast as possible.

I will say that the school is making a very strong effort to get us out in a 5-6 year time frame and to really boost participation in the match. I hear that our match numbers this year will be vastly improved over those of the recent past. I am not sure about the survey you all have mentioned but I know many of us at Fielding such as myself live in relatively rural areas where access to an APPIC site may be difficult unless we move. I am fortunate in having two within a reasonable distance. I know that historically many students have chosen not to go through the match.

The observation about the cloth monkey giving little nourishment is trenchant and very correct. (This is why I used the analogy) Many of the students who dawdle at Fielding have been exhibiting a significant amount of primary process thinking when confronted with organizational demands that they finish their program.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The report that was referenced was put together by APPIC, which was a review of program placement rates from 2000-2006. You can find it on the www.appic.org website.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

Psychanon

My percentages are not actually correct since I am typing from memory. We get three cuts in tuition, 25%, 50%, and I think another 5% prior to internship. They have recently changed the rules on that in a way that gives us a better deal since the cuts are cumulative Actually the numbers work out to be about 2 thousand ... and yes its ^%$#@(! since we are making internship wages. However, during the program I am working full time and earning a professional salary. If I went into a traditional program I'd have to quit my current job which pays relatively well in a part of the country where the cost of living is very low. So it works for me.

 

[deleted176373]

Therapist4Chnge

The stats on completion time are a bit misleading since the distribution is bimodal. Students tend to fall into two groups: those who complete in 5 years or so and those who take 10 or more.

http://www.fielding.edu/psy/outcome_data.pdf

Ummm, no, it's not bi-modal.

For 05/06 for instance.

12% <- Take 5 years or less
12% <- Take 5-6 years
4% <- Take 6-7 years
12% <- Take 7-8 years
60% <- (The mode is here) take longer than 8 years to complete


If you are calling 12% multimodal, well you would be correct if you had a group of scores (e.g. 12,12,12,4,60), but if you are looking at years to completion, the mode is 8 or more!!! LOL, clever argument... but faulty logic. In fact averaging over the past 8 years less than 9% completed in less than 5 years.

More telling is the Median 50% of ALL graduates did not complete in less than 7.3 years in the past 8 years and in most cases, 50% of the graduates spent more than 9 years. Half of last years graduating class had spent more than 8.5 years completing their degrees. The year before than had a median of 9.5 years.

Mark

 

[Jazzy2121]

I have read through a few of the threads on Fielding that are somewhat dated. I was wondering if there are any folks out there that can speak to their experience in the Clinical PhD program albeit positive or negative.

 

[WisNeuro]

The places that I have been would not even take them as practicum students, let alone interns. I'd look to other options. Sub 50% match rate and pretty poor EPPP rates as well. Their reputation has not gotten better over time.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

They are one of the programs that I screen out for when reviewing applications (for fellowship or a faculty position), based on numerous interactions w. some of their graduates and after reviewing their neuropsych cert program.

At the end of the day there are always better qualified applicants from programs I know and colleagues I trust.

 

[clinpsyc87]

I know several graduates of theirs in the military. If you have a distance ed undergrad and no chance of ever doing research and want to work in a place where it's a yes/no box to check regarding having a phd, maybe it's an option

 

[BigSpoon]

They are one of the programs that I screen out for when reviewing applications (for fellowship or a faculty position), based on numerous interactions w. some of their graduates and after reviewing their neuropsych cert program.

At the end of the day there are always better qualified applicants from programs I know and colleagues I trust.

Hi there, could you expound upon the programs that you know and colleagues that you trust? I am looking into reputable doctorate programs and am curious if you could share what programs/schools that you think highly of. Thank you

 

[smalltownpsych]

Hi there, could you expound upon the programs that you know and colleagues that you trust? I am looking into reputable doctorate programs and am curious if you could share what programs/schools that you think highly of. Thank you

APA accredited programs that are affiliated with real university. APA internship match statistics will also tell you which programs have the best reputation. http://www.appic.org/match/match-statistics

 

[Forensic007]

I am interested in applying for their Clinical Psychology PhD with a concentration in Forensic Psych. Does anyone know about how many cluster meetings I would need to attend? I live in Alaska so I would need to budget for these meetings and I want to make sure the program is worth it.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I want to make sure the program is worth it.

It isn't. It is expensive and it has very poor outcomes (graduation rate, APA-acred match rate, licensure rate, etc). It is also not a well thought of program in the field.

Forensic work can be competitive and cut throat once in the courtroom and I wouldn't want to have to justify my training every single time I took the stand, which is a real possibility if you attend a poorly regarded program.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm astounded when these threads get revived.

"I'm thinking about having someone kick me really hard in the crotch. Do you guys think it's a good idea?"

 

[PsyDr]

I'm astounded when these threads get revived.

"I'm thinking about having someone kick me really hard in the crotch. Do you guys think it's a good idea?"

The consistent theme is "I am unique, so the general practices of the field shouldn't apply to me. I'm sure to be the next star in the field even though they put in crazy effort and I can't because I've made other choices. Validate my opinion."

 

[erg923]

I am interested in applying for their Clinical Psychology PhD with a concentration in Forensic Psych. Does anyone know about how many cluster meetings I would need to attend? I live in Alaska so I would need to budget for these meetings and I want to make sure the program is worth it.

Did you read this thread or not?