Can average income Physicians afford big houses and nice cars?

[releehw]

LMAO. Big houses and nice cars =/= "living comfortably." Have some basic intelligence.

Lol no need to get feisty about someone's opinion. Grow up

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[Mad Jack]

Until you walk in someone's shoes, don't be so quick to jump to conclusions ️

*shrug* I lived just fine on 22k a year, 50k a year, 70k a year. Don't see how someone couldn't live on more unless they were fiscally irresponsible or lived in an extremely high CoL area.

 

[releehw]

Gtfo

You mad?

 

[releehw]

*shrug* I lived just fine on 22k a year, 50k a year, 70k a year. Don't see how someone couldn't live on more unless they were fiscally irresponsible or lived in an extremely high CoL area.

But what I'm saying is do you have kids in college etc? That's probably not what OP meant but that's how I looked at it.

 

[Mad Jack]

But what I'm saying is do you have kids in college etc? That's probably not what OP meant but that's how I looked at it.

My kids'll pay their own way through college just like I did. If they can't do that, that's their problem.

 

[releehw]

My kids'll pay their own way through college just like I did. If they can't do that, that's their problem.

A little harsh But I see where you're coming from.

 

[QofQuimica]

Neurologist, ER Docs, etc. Is it feasible considering how much your making? Is the lifestyle attainable?

Yes, but why would I want to? It's way too expensive trying to keep up with the premed Joneses.

All kidding aside, if you can't live a decent lifestyle on a six figure income, there is something wrong with you, not something wrong with the income.

 

[Satire5Texul]

Yes, but why would I want to? It's way too expensive trying to keep up with the premed Joneses.

All kidding aside, if you can't live a decent lifestyle on a six figure income, there is something wrong with you, not something wrong with the income.

I got this figure from Orange is the New Black so its totally right, but after 75k, happiness doesnt increase with income. I mean I could think of a number of things to do with 75k in one burn out shopping spree that would last probably 3 min, but after 100k you are just going for a better view of your apartment.

 

[GiveMeThatMD]

Mo money, mo problems though, am I right guys?

 

[Petrichor1]

Neurologist, ER Docs, etc. Is it feasible considering how much your making? Is the lifestyle attainable?

there's something called savings. It said hi the moment you posted this question

 

[swivelj]

No, reimbursement is still fundamentally a fee-for-service system (i.e., you get paid for what you do), though there are moves to move away from that model, and there were some provisions in the ACA to try out alternative models (e.g., capitated payments, which provide a hospital $X for treatment of Y disease regardless of the number of tests/procedures performed).

Did you read Emanuel's book? Also, could you recommend a legitimate author as a counterpoint if so?

 

[Psai]

*shrug* I lived just fine on 22k a year, 50k a year, 70k a year. Don't see how someone couldn't live on more unless they were fiscally irresponsible or lived in an extremely high CoL area.

People live just fine on 2k a year. What's your point? Feel free take fastfood wages for your highly skilled and specialized work by yourself

 

[lalex]

Mo money, mo problems though, am I right guys?

Yes. Destroyed my family.

 

[Mad Jack]

People live just fine on 2k a year. What's your point? Feel free take fastfood wages for your highly skilled and specialized work by yourself

You totally missed the point.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
All kidding aside, if you can't live a decent lifestyle on a six figure income, there is something wrong with you, not something wrong with the income.

I think the point though is there's living and there's "living". On six digits you can pay a rent or mortgage on something middle classy, pay down your student loans, start putting money away in your 401k or kids college funds, and drive a newish dependible American or Japanese car. You won't be featured on MTV Cribs or Million Dollar Listing. You won't be summering at your beach house in the Riviera and wintering at the chalet in Vale while your Ferrari is in the shop.

And as mentioned above even this middle class existence is dependent on not having lots of kids or ex spouses.

I think on the premed board there's the tendency to think money goes further than it does, and would caution that the guy earning less money earlier without all the debt sometimes comes out ahead of the supposedly rich doctor. On this path you'll go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt and then earn around 50,000 for 3-9 years after that. You probably won't be still in your twenties with no expenses by that point. Taxes will be absurdly high at your income level. And so what you earn in your early years as a doctor is usually spoken for before it hits the bank account. A lot of us will work very hard, at least throughout the earlier years of our careers, to maintain existences that premeds wouldn't really be all that impressed with in terms of opulence. You won't be digging through your couch cushions for change to buy Ramen, but you won't be dining out on filet regularly either.

 

[avgn]

The boroughs are much more affordable, so a lot of people just live outside of Manhattan. Why anyone would want to live in most of the boroughs by choice is beyond me though- why the hell would you pay NYC taxes to not even live in Manhattan?

This guy gets it.

Can confirm: spent 4 years undergrad in NYC, never once lived in off-campus housing because the boroughs are trash and I'd rather pay out the ass for Manhattan dorms vs a closet in butt**** nowhere Brooklyn with no A/C.

ITT: A non-New Yorker and a fake New Yorker (4 years of college ain't count for jack) so madly in love with Manhattan that they think they know what Queens/Brooklyn are like but obviously don't. True New Yorkers may see the boroughs as inferior to Manhattan, but they would never trash it as being an overpriced wasteland.

Life in New York doesn't revolve around glorified gentrified Caucasian, upper middle class Manhattan, fellas. (I'm talking living, not business or whatever.) If you've never been house hunting or lived in the boroughs, you've got no right to trash them based on your cursory knowledge of the area and biased perspective from the Manhattan bubble you kowtow to. Get the **** outta here with that.

 

[Mad Jack]

ITT: A non-New Yorker and a fake New Yorker (4 years of college ain't count for jack) so madly in love with Manhattan that they think they know what Queens/Brooklyn are like but obviously don't. True New Yorkers may see the boroughs as inferior to Manhattan, but they would never trash it as being an overpriced wasteland.

Life in New York doesn't revolve around glorified gentrified Caucasian, upper middle class Manhattan, fellas. (I'm talking living, not business or whatever.) If you've never been house hunting or lived in the boroughs, you've got no right to trash them based on your cursory knowledge of the area and biased perspective from the Manhattan bubble you kowtow to. Get the **** outta here with that.

Personally I hate all of NYC, but that's just me. I've seen the boroughs, and they just suck compared to basically anywhere else you could possibly live for the same amount of money.

 

[avgn]

Did you read Emanuel's book? Also, could you recommend a legitimate author as a counterpoint if so?

As a counterpoint to what? That the ACA was the one of the best options we had on the table at the time given the current structure and political realities?

Unfortunately there truly isn't a "legitimate" argument against this. But feel free to pick up any Republican book bashing the ACA, though. They're quite sad...

 

[avgn]

Personally I hate all of NYC, but that's just me. I've seen the boroughs, and they just suck compared to basically anywhere else you could possibly live for the same amount of money.

Puh-lease, brotha. U srs rn? "The boroughs" are not some small ass suburb that you could finish touring in 2 days. Even natives can't claim that they've seen all of it and know enough about COL levels everywhere to make that sort of statement. There are livable, affordable parts of the city you couldn't even FIND on a map if they were pointed out for you. There are neighborhoods that aren't even named on maps. There are great houses (with A/C btw, not some ****ty property that NYU uses as housing) that even the housing authority has trouble keeping track of.

You just hate New York. That's fine, but don't think you just know it all to **** on the places where the vast majority of New Yorkers actually live.

 

[maxwell_edison]

All kidding aside, if you can't live a decent lifestyle on a six figure income, there is something wrong with you, not something wrong with the income.

If by "big house" you mean one where you won't bang your head on the ceiling when you stand up, sure. If by "nice car" you mean something reliable but not flashy, sure. If you are thinking mansion and ferrari, not gonna happen. And yes, we all "know a guy"-- that's not gonna be you.

The other thing is lots of docs are more conservative in their spending, investments, etc. They tend to save for rainy days. They've known debt. They've seen how having savings can solve problems. You will have middle class or upper class patients that have trouble because they can't pay for something simple.

As an average doctor, you will be comfortable. You can have a nice car. You can live in a nice house. You will have money to do things you like. Most importantly, you will be able to save enough that you won't have to worry about your family.

The majority of Americans making over 75k/year don't have 6 months expenses in the bank. A third of them are living hand to mouth.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/n...Saving-for-a-rainy-day-1-in-4-Americans-don-t
http://investors.suntrust.com/news/...olds-living-paycheck-to-paycheck/default.aspx

Even among the super rich, people don't save. There was a corporate lawyer in my hometown who lost his job (Probably ~1 million dollars a year salary), and within three months had his huge house going into foreclosure, his cars repossessed, and on his way to bankruptcy.

You will have to pick what makes you happy: It may well be a car. I could see myself buying something nicer. Maybe an old Porsche or something. Or a slightly more pragmatic low end BMW (which can be had new for just under 30k). But I really enjoy cars and driving, and I take really good care of my vehicles so a better car can be a good investment. I really enjoy my old, fairly cheap BMW with 200k miles I have now.

 

[The Buff OP]

My kids'll pay their own way through college just like I did. If they can't do that, that's their problem.

That's cold, mayne. lol

 

[NickNaylor]

That's cold, mayne. lol

Why? I will have the same approach with my own children. It doesn't mean that I won't support them, but I'm a big proponent of independence as an adult. Part of that is maybe big boy/girl decisions and living with the ramifications of those decisions. I also think there's something to be said for having "skin in the game" when it comes to being invested both figuratively and literally in one's education.

 

[NickNaylor]

Did you read Emanuel's book? Also, could you recommend a legitimate author as a counterpoint if so?

No, but having read other articles by Emmanuel he is little more than a democratic talking head. Which is fine, but what he writes should be read and considered with that in mind.

 

[Mad Jack]

Puh-lease, brotha. U srs rn? "The boroughs" are not some small ass suburb that you could finish touring in 2 days. Even natives can't claim that they've seen all of it and know enough about COL levels everywhere to make that sort of statement. There are livable, affordable parts of the city you couldn't even FIND on a map if they were pointed out for you. There are neighborhoods that aren't even named on maps. There are great houses (with A/C btw, not some ****ty property that NYU uses as housing) that even the housing authority has trouble keeping track of.

You just hate New York. That's fine, but don't think you just know it all to **** on the places where the vast majority of New Yorkers actually live.

That you even need to specify that there's A/C in the units is terrifying. Let's look at what 400k can get you in, say, Dallas:
http://www.zillow.com/community/120-homesites/2103541649_zpid/

Now let's see what it gets you in Queens:
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...27,40.479075,-74.191704_rect/10_zm/?3col=true

This goes with my general theme of: You can have a nice house, a nice car, and nice things if you are a physician and live in the right place. NYC is not that place.

 

[avgn]

I only specified A/C as a tongue-in-cheek because of what @Lost in Translation said (implying that places in the boroughs are so ****ty that even basic housing needs are not met). That is not true.

You are correct that NYC is not the place to be to be very comfortable as a physician. This is an entirely different topic of conversation. It was not the argument I said was ****. You said that there is no reason to be in the boroughs because the prices were the same so one might as well be in Manhattan. That is not true, as you've so aptly demonstrated. Check what $400k gets you in Manhattan. It will not be the apartment there in Astoria (which btw is like one of the most expensive places in Queens to begin with). People live outside of Manhattan because there are real savings to be had, not because they're stupid and don't realize they can get the same stuff in Manhattan. They cannot. (Especially not the cheap ethnic foods that's almost nonexistent in gentrified Manhattan.) This is what you did not get and it is what I am trying to say.

 

[jl lin]

*shrug* I lived just fine on 22k a year, 50k a year, 70k a year. Don't see how someone couldn't live on more unless they were fiscally irresponsible or lived in an extremely high CoL area.

I feel ya, but one word to answer that: kidS--note the pleural. Love them, but we no longer live in a purely agrarian society--so they end up costing. Additionally, however, huge medical bills that can arise unexpectedly, student loan bills, and in general, many kinds of expenses quickly add up. Geez, even property taxes have risen >30% in my area. Food prices are ridiculous as well, and aren't getting any better, and I grow some of my own food, as well as cook quite well as much as possible. COL area is a huge factor without question.

My kids'll pay their own way through college just like I did. If they can't do that, that's their problem.

Easier said than done.

 

[Law2Doc]

That you even need to specify that there's A/C in the units is terrifying. Let's look at what 400k can get you in, say, Dallas:
Now let's see what it gets you in Queens:
This goes with my general theme of: You can have a nice house, a nice car, and nice things if you are a physician and live in the right place. NYC is not that place.

No question prices are different in different places. But I think the underlying issue is that early on in your career, with student loans still looming, you aren't really even going to have the money to put down 10- 20%, service a mortgage and pay the insane property taxes on either of those places. Let me give some perspective. Looking at any online mortgage calculator, you'll see that 30 year mortgage on a 400k place is about $2k a month. What you won't see is that property taxes in some regions can be almost that much (I know lots of people paying much more in property taxes on their home than most do on rent). And maintenance, lawn care, septic pump, oil, hvac , water on your on home can total as much as a grand a month. so that's $5k a month. I.e. $60k a year.

So if you are earning $200k, then let's say after taxes and 401k and non included benefits let's generously say you'll actually take home half that. So that's about 8k a month. You want to get your student loan paid down quick so let's say you pay a grand a month. So of your 7k a month left, are you really going to pay $5k toward living expenses? And that doesn't even yet address how you are going to get the initial 10-20% deposit amount. And after that you'll have utilities, parking, vehicle and family expenses. Can you swing it? Maybe... Eventually. For sure if your spouse is paid similarly and you don't yet have kids. Otherwise youll be broke every month, living paycheck to paycheck. But realistically, if it's just you you'll need to work up to a $400k place, not buy one right out of residency. We are talking years.

And that is why I'm saying a lot if premeds are a bit unrealistic about the buying power of doctors. You'll get a $200k townhouse and a Toyota, not a half a Million dollar home and a ferrari, whether you are in NYC or Dallas. You will absolutely get more for your money in the latter but be filthy rich in neither.

 

[Mad Jack]

I feel ya, but one word to answer that: kidS--note the pleural. Love them, but we no longer live in a purely agrarian society--so they end up costing. Additionally, however, huge medical bills that can arise unexpectedly, student loan bills, and in general, many kinds of expenses quickly add up. Geez, even property taxes have risen >30% in my area. Food prices are ridiculous as well, and aren't getting any better, and I grow some of my own food, as well as cook quite well as much as possible. COL area is a huge factor without question.




Easier said than done.

I dunno, I know plenty of people with multiple kids that aren't exactly starving in the streets that earn less than 50k a year, in Connecticut no less. They own their own home, two cars, etc.

No question prices are different in different places. But I think the underlying issue is that early on in your career, with student loans still looming, you aren't really even going to have the money to put down 10- 20%, service a mortgage and pay the insane property taxes on either of those places. Let me give some perspective. Looking at any online mortgage calculator, you'll see that 30 year mortgage on a 400k place is about $2k a month. What you won't see is that property taxes in some regions can be almost that much (I know lots of people paying much more in property taxes on their home than most do on rent). And maintenance, lawn care, septic pump, oil, hvac , water on your on home can total as much as a grand a month. so that's $5k a month. I.e. $60k a year.

So if you are earning $200k, then let's say after taxes and 401k and non included benefits let's generously say you'll actually take home half that. So that's about 8k a month. You want to get your student loan paid down quick so let's say you pay a grand a month. So of your 7k a month left, are you really going to pay $5k toward living expenses? And that doesn't even yet address how you are going to get the initial 10-20% deposit amount. And after that you'll have utilities, parking, vehicle and family expenses. Can you swing it? Maybe... Eventually. For sure if your spouse is paid similarly and you don't yet have kids. Otherwise youll be broke every month, living paycheck to paycheck. But realistically, if it's just you you'll need to work up to a $400k place, not buy one right out of residency. We are talking years.

And that is why I'm saying a lot if premeds are a bit unrealistic about the buying power of doctors. You'll get a $200k townhouse and a Toyota, not a half a Million dollar home and a ferrari, whether you are in NYC or Dallas. You will absolutely get more for your money in the latter but be filthy rich in neither.

How is it that my homeowner friends have 200k homes and Toyotas and yet somehow I'm magically going to end up in the exact same spot as them with zero kids and an income that is five times as large?

 

[Law2Doc]

...
How is it that my homeowner friends have 200k homes and Toyotas and yet somehow I'm magically going to end up in the exact same spot as them with zero kids and an income that is five times as large?

Simple, you were racking up debt while they were saving. Your tax hit each year will be much bigger. Also markets go up and down so they may have bought when things were cheaper. And you may eventually graduate up to that 400k home after a number of years, while they won't.

 

[Mad Jack]

Simple, you were racking up debt while they were saving. Your tax hit each year will be much bigger. Also markets go up and down so they may have bought when things were cheaper. And you may eventually graduate up to that 400k home after a number of years, while they won't.

I guess it all depends on priorities. I'll just have to show, rather than tell, when I'm all done with school and residency

 

[jl lin]

I dunno, I know plenty of people with multiple kids that aren't exactly starving in the streets that earn less than 50k a year, in Connecticut no less. They own their own home, two cars, etc.

Truly do you know all their particulars? When they bought? What RE/borrowing program did they use, and did they go through the stress of buying a foreclosure? Do you know how much they may have been gifted or saved or whatever to put down? Multiple kids? How many multiple kids?

All the things Law2Doc have shared are dead on correct. There are many expenses of running and maintaining a home, along with cars. (So many people ignore regular maintenance on the cars and wonder why they get hit with that unexpected heavy mechanic bills.) Same thing with roofs and windows, etc. Hell, even being a responsible pet owner can add up.

You end up needing a new roof? There's a good $10,000-$12,000, depending. A new septic system, if you are not tapped into a municipal system? >$20,000. A new well, >$4,000, depending. And having to do those things is a huge pain in the ass, and ends up costing your weekly budget, b/c of the mere inconvenience associated with it.

Anything you do to your home can be rather costly, even if you do some or most of the work yourself. We renovated a BR, not huge mind you, and did most of the work ourselves. Materials w/o labor were ~$5,000.

You have property outside. It also must be maintained. Years before we bought a nice John Deer. My husband is a pretty fastidious person. He kept it maintained. Still required maintenance, and if he hadn't decided to give up half a golf day and pay ~$50- $70 for a particular part, and then spend the rest of the Saturday fixing it, it would still be broken. Our property is suburban-rural and not small, and we aren't keen on snakes and rats and such. Things rack up.

If one doesn't have the extra time to fix something, they have to pay $300 (The J Deer tractor) and up to have it fixed, depending. And then sometimes you try to fix things to be frugal, but it's still a net loss--such as a washer or dryer. Then you have to eat the cost and get a new one. Your dog/s and kids get sick the same week. The vet bill is not cheap. The kids' copay is one thing, but then you still have to pay a substantial amount toward the prescriptions. And great recent news. (Our health insurance is now requiring a 20% increase in contribution this year.) Some numb nuts bangs into your car, and now you have to fight with the automobile insurance company, and pray to God they won't raise your rates, and you know they will.

I mean if you are going to go off the grid and live, fine. But short of that, stuff adds up more than those without a home and family think. No. It's not like living in Haiti by far. But it is certainly not living free of financial stresses, even when you plan well. You cannot plan for everything, and that is just life.

 

[maxwell_edison]

That you even need to specify that there's A/C in the units is terrifying. Let's look at what 400k can get you in, say, Dallas:
http://www.zillow.com/community/120-homesites/2103541649_zpid/

But that's in Dallas.

 

[Mad Jack]

But that's in Dallas.

So? If you want nice things, it's not a bad place to relocate to. Or Austin, if you want a place that has a bit more culture.

 

[jl lin]

Oh yes, and I forgot the expenses of re-certifications. Mine are going to cost me >$1200--and that's separate for state professional licenses, as I am sure you know. (Of course I remember the days when hospitals paid for these certs.)

 

[maxwell_edison]

Or Austin, if you want a place that has a bit more culture.

Good point. Austin is pretty chill. I'd rather live in a trailer in the SF Bay area than Dallas, though.

 

[WingedOx]

Good point. Austin is pretty chill. I'd rather live in a trailer in the SF Bay area than Dallas, though.

Austin ain't cheap anymore either.

 

[Lost in Translation]

If you've never been house hunting or lived in the boroughs, you've got no right to trash them based on your cursory knowledge of the area and biased perspective from the Manhattan bubble you kowtow to. Get the **** outta here with that.

Oh, but I have. I'm not some LA white chick whose parents have too much money, but you can keep making your assumptions though, buddy.

 

[WingedOx]

Puh-lease, brotha. U srs rn? "The boroughs" are not some small ass suburb that you could finish touring in 2 days. Even natives can't claim that they've seen all of it and know enough about COL levels everywhere to make that sort of statement. There are livable, affordable parts of the city you couldn't even FIND on a map if they were pointed out for you. There are neighborhoods that aren't even named on maps. There are great houses (with A/C btw, not some ****ty property that NYU uses as housing) that even the housing authority has trouble keeping track of.

You just hate New York. That's fine, but don't think you just know it all to **** on the places where the vast majority of New Yorkers actually live.

Evidence A in file: New Yorkers are the most pathetically defensive people in America.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Evidence A in file: New Yorkers are the most pathetically defensive people in America.

He must think Park Slope is a representation of how Brooklyn is. I bet he's never been east of Bedstuy or south of Flatbush

 

[vantheman]

Not once the socialists take over. We will all be 400K in debt and making European doctor wages. We'll be up the river without a paddle . . .

Only half-joking.

Oh no! The socialists are trying to find ways to improve the quality of life and health of the entire community, not just those who can afford it! It's like they actually care about promoting health or something...

 

[cryhavoc]

Well, if they first retroactively free us of our capitalist debt, then whatever. It is pretty impossible to pay of capitalist debt with socialist wages.

 

[Mad Jack]

Oh no! The socialists are trying to find ways to improve the quality of life and health of the entire community, not just those who can afford it! It's like they actually care about promoting health or something...

I don't care about the health of the public if they're willing to throw me under the bus with 400k in debt and wages that can't even pay it down. So there's that.

 

[WingedOx]

Well, if they first retroactively free us of our capitalist debt, then whatever. It is pretty impossible to pay of capitalist debt with socialist wages.

how nuanced.

 

[deleted407021]

Evidence A in file: New Yorkers are the most pathetically defensive people in America.

Glances awkwardly at Texas.

*Texas flips out and threatens to secede for the 8th time this week*

 

[Finette]

Naïve pre-med here, hi. I think this point has been brought up quite a bit, but there are some pretty different definitions of what “comfortable” is. I felt like chiming in, because I’ve done the math, and I’m still not quite sure what people are so upset over.

Let’s say 200K a year, just to cite an example. Taxes estimate to roughly 40K a year, give or take depending on marriage, kids, etc. Let’s say you have roughly 160K left. Let’s say after student loans, you have 100K left.

Do you realize outside of medicine most people would be lucky to take home this much *before* taxes/loans/etc? Sure, maybe you’re not rolling around in a bathtub full of $100 bills, but who cares? You get to have a career that you love and feel passionate about, which is a huge gift in life in and of itself, and as this great bonus you get to live maybe in a nice little house in a good school district and have money to do things you enjoy with the people you care about. There’s a lot of people in this world who give up many things in life to pursue their greatest passions, and many of them don’t have a stable job with a stable paycheck waiting for them on the other side. (artists, writers, etc)

Maybe it’s because I grew up really, really poor, and would have killed just to live in a neighborhood where drug dealers didn’t try to sell meth to 10 year old kids, but a little perspective can go a long way here. *backs away slowly before the flames*

 

[The Buff OP]

Why? I will have the same approach with my own children. It doesn't mean that I won't support them, but I'm a big proponent of independence as an adult. Part of that is maybe big boy/girl decisions and living with the ramifications of those decisions. I also think there's something to be said for having "skin in the game" when it comes to being invested both figuratively and literally in one's education.

IDK, I have a heart lol. I come from a rough background (parents were awesome tho) and I had to learned everything on my own and act alone. I really wished someone would of been there to set me on the right path. I won't pay **** for their school, but I will orient them and make sure they attend a great HS. I went to three high schools and they all sucked.

 

[xffan624]

Why? I will have the same approach with my own children. It doesn't mean that I won't support them, but I'm a big proponent of independence as an adult. Part of that is maybe big boy/girl decisions and living with the ramifications of those decisions. I also think there's something to be said for having "skin in the game" when it comes to being invested both figuratively and literally in one's education.

My parents did the same to me, even though my dad had his way paid through college. Given their financial status, they certainly couldn't have paid it completely, but they could have helped more than they did. Today, I have no loans and am taking no loans out for medical school thanks to 5+ years ( including 1 in a combat zone) given to Uncle Sam who contributed as well as my own savings. Would I ask my children to go through the same to pay for their college? Not sure. Probably not, but I would encourage them to be as cost efficient as possible in pursuing a college education. Something I definitely was not.

 

[Mad Jack]

IDK, I have a heart lol. I come from a rough background (parents were awesome tho) and I had to learned everything on my own and act alone. I really wished someone would of been there to set me on the right path. I won't pay **** for their school, but I will orient them and make sure they attend a great HS. I went to three high schools and they all sucked.

If I ever have children, I'll emotionally and intellectually support them all day every day. But financially, let's just say that if I didn't have skin in the game, I wouldn't have succeeded. So I am a big proponent of them knowing that they are ****ed if they don't succeed and pick the right major, just like I knew. If it weren't for that, I'd probably be blogging for a living right now.

Secretly, I plan to pay off some or all of their student loans after they finish a professional program. But that's an "if," and it'll be a big surprise for them.

 

[Law2Doc]

Naïve pre-med here, hi. I think this point has been brought up quite a bit, but there are some pretty different definitions of what “comfortable” is. I felt like chiming in, because I’ve done the math, and I’m still not quite sure what people are so upset over.

Let’s say 200K a year, just to cite an example. Taxes estimate to roughly 40K a year, give or take depending on marriage, kids, etc. Let’s say you have roughly 160K left. Let’s say after student loans, you have 100K left.

Do you realize outside of medicine most people would be lucky to take home this much *before* taxes/loans/etc? Sure, maybe you’re not rolling around in a bathtub full of $100 bills, but who cares? You get to have a career that you love and feel passionate about, which is a huge gift in life in and of itself, and as this great bonus you get to live maybe in a nice little house in a good school district and have money to do things you enjoy with the people you care about. There’s a lot of people in this world who give up many things in life to pursue their greatest passions, and many of them don’t have a stable job with a stable paycheck waiting for them on the other side. (artists, writers, etc)

Maybe it’s because I grew up really, really poor, and would have killed just to live in a neighborhood where drug dealers didn’t try to sell meth to 10 year old kids, but a little perspective can go a long way here. *backs away slowly before the flames*

No you haven't "done the math". You already lost me (probably everybody) with the notion of only paying $40k on a $200k income. Our top tax rate, which is graduated, is over 39%. States are another 5-10%. There are numerous online calculators that you can use but after federal, state, local taxes, social security and the like, plus whatever 401k and other benefits you have to self fund, you won't be taking $160k home. More likely closer to $100k. So if you are paying down $60k in student debt in year one, that leaves you with $40k.

 

[Gauss44]

This will depend on the cost of living wherever it is that you want to live and how much debt you are paying off. Examples: ER Doc in NYC, no; Pennsylvania, probably. There are websites that can provide actual numbers of how much each specialty actually makes and where the job is located. You can compare that to how much it costs to rent an apartment, or how much a mortgage will be in a given place.