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Can I get my MBA during residency?

Discussion in 'Family Medicine' started by dr_almondjoy_do, 01.25.04.

  1. dr_almondjoy_do

    dr_almondjoy_do So Very Happy to Be Here!

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    I am interested in FP, but I know eventually I want to go into the business side of medicine. With the lifestyle of FP, I hear that it's pretty good compared to other fields, but is it good enough to go to grad school?

    I am stuck between doing and MBA and an EMBA. With the EMBA (Executive MBA for people who already have professional degrees) you can go to school on Friday and Saturday 9-5 every other week for two years, allowing one to keep working as long as their employers allow it.

    So, I'm thowing this question into the pot, hoping for an answer! And also, do hospitals sponsor MBA programs? (This may be a stretch, but I thought I'd ask)
  2. dr_almondjoy_do

    dr_almondjoy_do So Very Happy to Be Here!

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  3. secretwave101

    secretwave101 Senior Member

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    It's something to consider, but probably only once you've finished your intern year. By then, you'll know everyone and can see if it would work out. Most residencies promise 1 free weekend per month (these days), but two might be pushing it unless you have someone who is willing to cover you, etc.

    I doubt they'd sponsor it. Why would they?
  4. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member

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    Some FP programs are offering the possibility of a combined MPH/MBA with the FP residency training as an additional perk to attract candidates to their program. It's a free degree, and might be worth investigating. I'm not sure if this is only offered concurrently with the residency itself or if it can be deferred to a later time.
  5. bustbones26

    bustbones26 Senior Member

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    Check out www.aafp.org and investigate some of the fellowships offered. I think that some fellowships, such as say, "faculty development" offer grad degrees, mostly MPH but hey, doesnt hurt to check it out and see what people do offer for a fellowship.
  6. PACtoDOC

    PACtoDOC 1K Member

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    To me, faculty development fellowships are a total joke and waste of time. If you are in FP to be a professor, then go put your time in taking care of real people instead of learning how to teach what you can only learn with experience. Some people are meant to teach and are gifted, but others simply should not. You can't learn how to be a professor or instructor in one year of some stupid fellowship. The best FP faculty are docs who have been to the real world and have come back for an easier life to academia (and for lower pay as well!!!). In this situation, I think the old analogy of "those who can do", and " those who can't teach". I have seen some of the fellows in my own part of the world and usually that are people who lack the people skills to practice in the first place. They usually missed their calling for surgery or pathology, or did not have the board scores to get in. Its sad really. I do plan to come back and teach when I get old, but that is after I have put in my time. Its just like the military in a way, where they have these 2Lt's coming in from Westpoint to lead a group of seasoned troops, and just because the 2Lt has a bit of brass on his sleave he thinks that he is the stink. It usually turns out that these officers only excel if they sit back and learn how to lead from the people that they are supposed to be leading (senior NCO's).
  7. bustbones26

    bustbones26 Senior Member

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    You may think the faculty development fellowships are a joke, but I only pointed those out because they are a way for an FP to have somebody else pay for their MPH degree. I mean hey, why pay for it yourself if somebody else is going to?
  8. PACtoDOC

    PACtoDOC 1K Member

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    Not to point out the obvious, but the OP asked about getting an MBA during residency. They were not asking about getting an MPH by doing an additional year of residency (hence the faculty development deal) The poster was wanting to know which 3 year FP program also offered an MBA, at least that is how I interpreted it. I just used the last post to express my personal opinions regarding the faculty development fellowship...nothing less..nothing more.
  9. dr_almondjoy_do

    dr_almondjoy_do So Very Happy to Be Here!

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    Well thanks for the input, I didn't know that some FP programs offer the MBA during residency, that sounds like a great option. I'd like more information if you have it NuMD97.

    And about the sponsorship, I know that many hospitals look to find people to help run them, and like any other business (yes, a hospital is in the business of saving lives, and this is a very profitable business at that...) would like for their employees to have advanced management training. So I say all that to say that there may be some hospitals out there that will sponsor the degree, especially if they offer it.

    with the MPH degree, it will get you to the same position as a person with an MBA, but for some reason, statistically, Docs with the MBA make about 20k more annually, not including their bonus. I don't know why....

    But if anyone has any specific residency programs that offer this, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm at NYCOM now and would prefer to stay in NY, but if that's not doable then I'll relocate!
  10. bigmuny

    bigmuny Senior Member

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    you can get an mba(rockhurst university)while doing one of the fp programs in kansas city(umkc i think). i think it costs around 22k. not worth it in my opinion.
  11. bustbones26

    bustbones26 Senior Member

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    No it is not worth it to pay for the MBA, which is why I suggested seeing if there is a fellowship program out there that pays for it.

    "Not to point out the obvious" but---
    yes a fellowship is extra time beyond residency (gasp)
    yes most of these fellowships offer an MPH degree
    But with fellowship, somebody else pays for your degree. If that is what you want to do.

    "Not to point out the obvious" but---
    my post suggested checking out the AAFP website to see if any of these fellowships offered MBA as opposed to MPH. I realize that the opriginal poster was interested in MBA

    "Not to point out the obvious" but---
    why does everybody in the FP forum try to start a pissing match? Man, lighten up!
  12. PACtoDOC

    PACtoDOC 1K Member

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    I said it was an opinion. If you don't like opinions then move to China where they are not allowed!!
  13. bustbones26

    bustbones26 Senior Member

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    Easy easy, that is my point, there is no reason to get simmered up. Your opinions are certainly respected, that is what this forum is mostly about anyways, opinions!!!

    But I did not down any of your opinions! But you certainly misunderstood the point of what I was trying to say in my post, I was only trying to clarify myself.
  14. PACtoDOC

    PACtoDOC 1K Member

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    Nobody's pissed. Just relax. Lets take a break and have a cold one and return later to give each other more grief!! I was just saying that I would prefer to have an orchiectomy under local before I wasted a year in a faculty development fellowship. :laugh:
  15. bigmuny

    bigmuny Senior Member

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    To the OP:
    I think if I was interested in getting an mba(which i probably would only do if i planned on doing hmo or hospital admin. work), I would wait until after residency and securing job. I would then do an emba, which you probably could get your employer to pick up the tab for. Before med school, I worked for a large corporation, and they would pay for employees to pursue grad. degrees(most of my friends in corporate gigs had the same set up).
  16. flighterdoc

    flighterdoc Rocket Scientist

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    Another option is to get an online MBA - you do the work on your time, not the classes/profs. Might work better in residency.
  17. NuMD97

    NuMD97 Senior Member

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    Indiana University posts the following:

    MPH, MHA, and MBA Degree Programs...
    Residents in the IU Family Practice Residency program are eligible to select additional degree training during residency, after satisfactory completion of the first year of the program. Degrees in Health Administration, Public Health, and Business Administration, and a certificate in Health Services Management are available through Indiana University at the IUPUI campus, and residents receive partial tuition and fee courtesy as part of their benefits. Degree programs require enrollment in evening classes beginning in the second year of training, with completion in the PGY-4 (fellowship) year. Residents who chose to work toward additional degrees will have their schedules adjusted to use elective time for coursework and practicum experiences.

    Having spoken to another program, it was to my understanding that it was all encompassed during the three-year residency program. Perhaps the error then was mine.

    I suggest you do a google search (how I found Indiana University) to get an idea of which programs offer this additional degree while in residency. Even if there is an extra year, the degree is offered free, and that could make it all worthwhile.
  18. cooldreams

    cooldreams American Mensa Member :)

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    explain to me please, how is it *worth it* to blow an extra year at fellowship or whatever just for a $22k degree. you make like on ave $150k EACH YEAR as a fp... so uh... $30k maybe plus a free $22k degree = $55k... OR $150k minus $22k degree = $128k... and that is just taking into account your first year out... what you are really missing is your LAST year as a doc... when making perhaps $200k+ to $300k+....

    so explain again, how is it worth it???

    i can only see how the free degree could at all be worth it if you NEEDED the fellowship for what you wanted to do anyways or it was during residency that you NEEDED... either way... kill two birds... or wait til ur working... its not worth the income loss for JUST a free degree...
  19. secretwave101

    secretwave101 Senior Member

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    It is true that you lose alot of money during the extra year for fellowship when you could be working at 2.5x what the fellowship is paying you. However, where you can make up the difference is if you are licensed by then to moonlight (which is generally the case). If the fellowship year isn't too intense (most aren't), you can moonlight and make up a large portion of what you're losing - and come out with a degree.

    Thus, the biggest money-loser is taking a year off of school, or a break between school and residency. You're out the tuition, plus you can't work at $60+ per hour part-time.

    Also, the programs that I know of that will let you get the degree during the 3 years are some of the on-line programs, UCLA's executive program (effectively the same schedule as the military reserves for 2 years), or UWash's part-time program which requires frequent trips to Seattle for weekend classes. But, if you did it during the 3 years, forget about also moonlighting, so the above problems apply. I'm speaking of MPH degree programs here, not MBA which was the original post, but the crossover is pretty equivalent.
  20. dr_almondjoy_do

    dr_almondjoy_do So Very Happy to Be Here!

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    That sounds like a plan! Thanks, but if I choose to do it after securing a job, do you find that it's good to get a job at a specialty firm or in a hospital? Which one is more inclined to pay for a degree in the health field? I'm already looking into some EMBA programs that would accept me on graduation, but I wasn't sure if I could get compensation in the health care field. In the business world it happeneds all the time... but this is a different animal medicine.
  21. dr_almondjoy_do

    dr_almondjoy_do So Very Happy to Be Here!

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    That is awesome! Thanks!

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