Can I quit my practicum??

[miserable at practicum]

I am currently a 4th year clinical psychology doctoral candidate, who matched successfully to a great internship site on February 21st. I am at a practicum site this year, which I absolutely loathe, for so many reasons. I have been there since August 2013, and signed a contract at the beginning that stated I will be there through the end of June. This is an unpaid practicum.

So basically, I have been wanting to run for my life since September. It's a private psychiatric hospital. I do a lot of assessments, referrals from the court with a very quick turnaround. My school requires that we do not work more than 20 hours per week, but I often work up to 40 hours a week. I am often asked to work on days that I am not scheduled – if a referral comes in on a day I am not scheduled to be there, it doesn't matter, if I am the next person up, I still have to drop everything, come in, and complete the assessment.

The supervisors have very poor management skills. They can be very cruel, I have questioned my competencies numerous times throughout the year. Like I mentioned, I wanted to quit in September, but knew that it would look very bad for me to quit my practicum site while applying for internship. So I sucked it up. I joked to myself that I would quit if I matched on February 21st. It crossed my mind to quit when I did match, but it is not in my nature to quit. And as horrible as this place is, I feel like it's wrong to back out of a contract.

I have talked to my DCT in the past about this place, and we have always come to the conclusion that it is in my best interests to stay (this was before matching).

But it just keeps getting worse. I could write a novel about how bad this place is, but this last week was so awful, I honestly don't think I can make it to the end. I was assigned a case, given a due date, did all of the required testing, and then came down with a horrible cold that left me unable to write the report by the due date. I asked my supervisor for an extension, she said I could have one extra day. I ended up getting the report in using this extra day – to do so, I had to stay up all night to complete it. I was very happy with this result, but unhappy because I really needed two days, and told her so, to which she didn't really respond. I had supervision yesterday, and my supervisor asked me, "OK, just be straight with me, where did you go on vacation this last weekend that resulted in you needing extra time on this report? I'm just not buying that you were sick." I was shocked. I'm done. How can I work for a place like this?? I just don't think I can make it the next 3 months. I work so hard and am completely unappreciated.

If I quit, will this have any impact on my internship?

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[thewesternsky]

This sounds terrible, and I'm sorry you're in this situation.

Quitting will not impact your internship-- The APPIC match is binding.

It's up to you to decide what to do now, but it does sound pretty toxic. If you decide to quit, I encourage you to talk to your DCT again first.

One last point: It may be worthwhile to work on your assertiveness or DEARMAN skills, either on your own or (ideally!) in therapy before you begin internship in September. This situation is not your fault, and it definitely sounds like they are taking advantage of you. It's also possible you tried using interpersonal effectiveness or assertiveness skills with your supervisors and it didn't work-- Either because they were not at all responsive or because the situation with you as a trainee made it hard for you to be assertive. Either way, practicing the skills before next year can't hurt, and it might help you feel better to do something for yourself and to feel like you have the tools to cope and set boundaries / limits in the future.

Good luck! Again, I am sorry they have been so awful to you.

 

[songthatneverends]

I dont know if there is a direct answer to this question. There are two statements in the APPI that make me think that it COULD impact your internship.

1. "I authorize the internship site to consult with persons and institutions with which I have been associated who may have information bearing on my professional competence, character, and ethical qualifications now or in the future."

With this statement, following the match, it is unclear whether they are still able to do this and/or whether this could happen. This one seems unlikely.

2. " I further understand that it is my responsibility to inform the internship sites to which I have applied if a change in my status with my academic program, (e.g., being placed on probation, being dismissed, etc.) occurs subsequent to the submission of my application. In addition, I understand I have the same responsibility to inform the internship site to which I match if a change in status occurs after the match has occurred.

In this case, I think that the only real possible consequences would occur if your quitting leads to any changes in your status at your school, such as being placed on probation, ect, for not completing a practicum. Not sure if this is a possibility, but it seems as though your DCT would be able to tell you one way or another.

Finally, your training agreement likely states that you are working a 20 hour practicum, and that agreement should be upheld by the site. Your concerns seem pretty serious and I would definitely encourage you to continue to communicate with your DCT about your experiences here.

 

[miserable at practicum]

This sounds terrible, and I'm sorry you're in this situation.

Quitting will not impact your internship-- The APPIC match is binding.

It's up to you to decide what to do now, but it does sound pretty toxic. If you decide to quit, I encourage you to talk to your DCT again first.

One last point: It may be worthwhile to work on your assertiveness or DEARMAN skills, either on your own or (ideally!) in therapy before you begin internship in September. This situation is not your fault, and it definitely sounds like they are taking advantage of you. It's also possible you tried using interpersonal effectiveness or assertiveness skills with your supervisors and it didn't work-- Either because they were not at all responsive or because the situation with you as a trainee made it hard for you to be assertive. Either way, practicing the skills before next year can't hurt, and it might help you feel better to do something for yourself and to feel like you have the tools to cope and set boundaries / limits in the future.

Good luck! Again, I am sorry they have been so awful to you.

Thank you so much for your response! I guess what I was worried about re: internship – is you know how on the AAPI, we put how long we anticipate we will be at our current practicum site? I was worried that my internship would be like, you put down June, but then you quit in April. But you are saying the match is binding, even for something like this? I wouldn't need to contact my internship site and let them know I am quitting my practicum?

It is completely toxic. I'm completely miserable. I was so upset back in September/October, and things were so bad that I did almost did quit, regardless of the fact that I was applying to internship.

You are right, I need to work on being more assertive. And I have been practicing DBT skills! You are also right in that I have tried to be more assertive a few times with my supervisor, and it backfired. Like you said, they were completely unresponsive.

Yes, I would definitely talk to my DCT before I did anything. She won't be in the office until Monday, but I just wanted to put this out there to see if others have been in a similar situation or had any ideas.

Again, thank you!

 

[miserable at practicum]

I dont know if there is a direct answer to this question. There are two statements in the APPI that make me think that it COULD impact your internship.

1. "I authorize the internship site to consult with persons and institutions with which I have been associated who may have information bearing on my professional competence, character, and ethical qualifications now or in the future."

With this statement, following the match, it is unclear whether they are still able to do this and/or whether this could happen. This one seems unlikely.

2. " I further understand that it is my responsibility to inform the internship sites to which I have applied if a change in my status with my academic program, (e.g., being placed on probation, being dismissed, etc.) occurs subsequent to the submission of my application. In addition, I understand I have the same responsibility to inform the internship site to which I match if a change in status occurs after the match has occurred.

In this case, I think that the only real possible consequences would occur if your quitting leads to any changes in your status at your school, such as being placed on probation, ect, for not completing a practicum. Not sure if this is a possibility, but it seems as though your DCT would be able to tell you one way or another.

Finally, your training agreement likely states that you are working a 20 hour practicum, and that agreement should be upheld by the site. Your concerns seem pretty serious and I would definitely encourage you to continue to communicate with your DCT about your experiences here.

Thank you for your response! I completely forgot about this! Yes, this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was worried about re: internship, even if it's unlikely.

I am not sure about being placed on probation. If my DCT told me that I would be placed on probation if I quit, then I wouldn't quit.

I have talked to my DCT about the 20 hours a week thing, and she actually contacted my supervisor. My supervisor told her that yes, I do work more than 20 hours a week sometimes (when I have a case), but other weeks (when I don't have a case), I work less than 20 hours a week (this is true), so it all balances out (definitely NOT true). My DCT has been on my side for the most part, but I can tell she is reluctant to push things with the site – she is afraid of ruining the relationship the site has with our school, and has been very passive about all of this, which is extremely annoying. She often will say things like, "I know this is a tough situation, but what are the positive things about the site?" And then I will think about it, come to the conclusion that the site sucks but that I can deal, but then something else happens at the site that upsets me all over again. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[songthatneverends]

Thank you for your response! I completely forgot about this! Yes, this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was worried about, even if it's unlikely.

I am not sure about being placed on probation. If my DCT told me that I would be placed on probation if I quit, then I wouldn't quit.

I have talked to my DCT about the 20 hours a week thing, and she actually contacted my supervisor. My supervisor told her that yes, I do work more than 20 hours a week sometimes (when I have a case), but other weeks (when I don't have a case), I work less than 20 hours a week (this is true), so it all balances out (definitely NOT true). My DCT has been on my side for the most part, but I can tell she is reluctant to push things with the site – she is afraid of ruining the relationship the site has with our school, and has been very passive about all of this, which is extremely annoying. She often will say things like, "I know this is a tough situation, but what are the positive things about the site?" And then I will think about it, come to the conclusion that the site sucks but that I can deal, but then something else happens at the site that upsets me all over again. It's a vicious cycle.

Honestly, I think that your DCT should be less concerned about ruining the relationship with the site and more concerned about the training experiences of the students. That is just my opinion, but I come from an area with a lot of training opportunities so losing one practicum placement is not a huge deal. Have other students had similar experiences there?

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Perhaps there is someone else at your school, maybe your adviser, who may be able to listen to your concerns about help you figure out how to approach the DCT at your school or the supervisor at you site to make this training experience better.

 

[miserable at practicum]

Honestly, I think that your DCT should be less concerned about ruining the relationship with the site and more concerned about the training experiences of the students. That is just my opinion, but I come from an area with a lot of training opportunities so losing one practicum placement is not a huge deal. Have other students had similar experiences there?

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Perhaps there is someone else at your school, maybe your adviser, who may be able to listen to your concerns about help you figure out how to approach the DCT at your school or the supervisor at you site to make this training experience better.

I also live in an area with a lot of practicum sites and agree, losing one practicum site would not be the end of the world. I really don't even think that they would lose the site if she pushed a little more, to be honest. Actually, I am sure they wouldn't. The site knows that they treat us bad. There are two tracks at this site – therapy and assessment. Those that do the therapy track don't seem to have problems, it is very laid back for them, they work about 12 hours per week. But the assessment track is completely different! I have talked to students that worked there last year (assessment track), they said they were miserable, and wouldn't recommend it to anybody. Wish I had talked to them before starting! The other assessment externs this year are not happy either. There are more therapy externs than assessment externs, so overall, the site gets positive reviews. The fact that there are so many more therapy externs than assessment externs is ridiculous because there is a huge imbalance in the amount of work. They used to have more assessment externs, but word has spread, and they have trouble hiring for the assessment track. If you dig deeper and find the assessment externs, that's where you find the horror stories. The supervisors are easier on the therapy externs because they do not require a lot. Just a weekly one hour supervision. But for us assessment externs – because there is so much back and forth on the reports, and scheduling issues, they deal with us more. For example, one time my supervisor gave me a time that she needed a report by, then rescinded it at the last minute and said she needed the report a few hours earlier (e.g., she forgot her child had a piano recital), and I told her I couldn't accommodate this request because I would be in class at that time. I was told that I was not flexible. The supervisors send drafts of reports to us at 11:00 at night and ask that we do a complete revision before going to bed. So there is pushback from the assessment externs, and the supervisors become irritated with us. But the therapy externs – no, because their schedules don't really affect the supervisors.

I was thinking the same thing – talk to my adviser about this whole thing.

Thank you!

 

[Ollie123]

I left my practicum. it was nowhere near that abusive (and actually really nice and I'm sad I had to leave), but dissertation recruitment fell by the wayside given I was MIA for most of January so I have to prioritize that over practicum. I cannot imagine my internship site caring one iota.

From what you told me of your site, I'd have given them some choice words after about 2 weeks of that and walked out, consequences be damned. Unless you are registered for credit I don't foresee much they can do - there is not a court in the country that would uphold a contract mandating someone to continue providing unpaid labor 40 hours/week against their will. I'm taking you at your word regarding the culture of the site, but I simply would not tolerate treatment like that. I'd think carefully about how likely it is that these people will have some impact on your career - are these big name folks? Are they well-known within a geographic region you would like to practice or a particular specialty area you see yourself pursuing? If so, you should obviously consider the long-term consequences of potentially burning that bridge. I know some programs are reluctant to piss off the site in these situations, but they really should have your back in a situation like this. Hopefully you have a good rapport with enough people that this won't be what stands out about you among future letter-writers among faculty at your program. All I can say is that were I in the same situation, I wouldn't hesitate to leave.

 

[MCParent]

It sounds to me like OP did the right thing in consulting with the DCT, but the DCT is not willing to fulfill their obligation to OP's training and advocate for him or her, and is just expecting OP to roll over (and, likely, expects that every subsequent student in the same prac do the same). (That's of course assuming that OP's report and perceptions are accurate and the site really is toxic, which I'd have no idea about.)

Does your program do prac site contracts, with expectations laid out from both the student and the site? Most do. I'd lay out exactly what is being violated in the contract and make my expectations clear to the DCT and the site. If that's not met immediately I'd leave.

I can't imagine (a) that your internship would find out, or (b) that it would care. Projected hours on the APPI only go to the end of the calendar year, don't they? And those hours aren't even major factors anyway. If it were to come up (and I can't imagine how it would), you could just say the site was breaking their prac contract and that was significantly interfering with your ability to complete your other requirements (which it sounds like it is).

 

[miserable at practicum]

I left my practicum. it was nowhere near that abusive (and actually really nice and I'm sad I had to leave), but dissertation recruitment fell by the wayside given I was MIA for most of January so I have to prioritize that over practicum. I cannot imagine my internship site caring one iota.

From what you told me of your site, I'd have given them some choice words after about 2 weeks of that and walked out, consequences be damned. Unless you are registered for credit I don't foresee much they can do - there is not a court in the country that would uphold a contract mandating someone to continue providing unpaid labor 40 hours/week against their will. I'm taking you at your word regarding the culture of the site, but I simply would not tolerate treatment like that. I'd think carefully about how likely it is that these people will have some impact on your career - are these big name folks? Are they well-known within a geographic region you would like to practice or a particular specialty area you see yourself pursuing? If so, you should obviously consider the long-term consequences of potentially burning that bridge. I know some programs are reluctant to piss off the site in these situations, but they really should have your back in a situation like this. Hopefully you have a good rapport with enough people that this won't be what stands out about you among future letter-writers among faculty at your program. All I can say is that were I in the same situation, I wouldn't hesitate to leave.

Wow, really?! This actually makes me feel a whole lot better, that you would have walked out. I have thought this whole time that I just need to suck it up, I can get through it, that the perceived consequences would be worse than leaving. I was just so scared with applying for internship at the same time. You are really giving me the courage to say no, I will not tolerate this treatment any longer! I have thought about that – if they will have some possible impact on my career. They are known in the area, but not taken very seriously in some ways. For example, they are a non APA internship site, by choice. They are basically taking advantage of the match imbalance situation because they know that as long as that lasts, they will still get applicants and fill their slots. I could see them saying something unfavorable about me if somebody asked them (e.g., she can be inflexible at times), but they would say that regardless if I left now or stayed through June. Not really worried about what they would say about me because they are not taken very seriously overall. I have a very good reputation in my area, and unless they straight out lied, the worst they could say about me is that I am "inflexible." If pressed for details on why I am "inflexible," they would sound stupid. Yes, I definitely have good rapport with faculty at my school. My DCT is just so passive about this. The last time I talked about hours with her, she was like, well it sounds like you don't work 40 hours every week. No, I do not work 40 hours every week, but I do every other week, and it does not "balance out." The weeks in between I work about 15 hours a week. So that averages to 30 hours per week, roughly. I don't know why I have just believed I have to just tolerate this situation, and continually try to make the best of it, but that's been my attitude. After the whole, "I don't believe that you were sick" thing after I still got the damn report done, I was like, I'm done with this crap.

I am registered for credits, but they do not technically count for anything because it's an "optional" practicum. Would that help my situation, being that they are "optional" credits and do not count towards the total credits I need to graduate?

Thanks for your reply!

 

[miserable at practicum]

It sounds to me like OP did the right thing in consulting with the DCT, but the DCT is not willing to fulfill their obligation to OP's training and advocate for him or her, and is just expecting OP to roll over (and, likely, expects that every subsequent student in the same prac do the same). (That's of course assuming that OP's report and perceptions are accurate and the site really is toxic, which I'd have no idea about.)

Does your program do prac site contracts, with expectations laid out from both the student and the site? Most do. I'd lay out exactly what is being violated in the contract and make my expectations clear to the DCT and the site. If that's not met immediately I'd leave.

I can't imagine (a) that your internship would find out, or (b) that it would care. Projected hours on the APPI only go to the end of the calendar year, don't they? And those hours aren't even major factors anyway. If it were to come up (and I can't imagine how it would), you could just say the site was breaking their prac contract and that was significantly interfering with your ability to complete your other requirements (which it sounds like it is).

Yes, another student at this site who is also on the assessment track went to the DCT, and it was the same response. "How can we make this situation better? It's a tough situation, but let's look at what you can gain from working there." So just like in my situation, nothing was accomplished. Yes, we do contracts, with expectations laid out from both the students and the site. Aside from the fact that I said I would be there until June, I feel like the contract would work in my favor because of the fact that I clearly work more than 20 hours per week, and these hours have been documented.

The projected hours were based on November through June. Unless I am remembering incorrectly, I think we just had to estimate the total hours we expected to accrue by the end of our practicum, not F2F hours. I am not really worried about it that much, because the minimum number of hours my internship site requires – I was well over that number at the application deadline. And yeah, I agree, I don't feel like those hours are a major factor anyway. My hours were solid at the application deadline. And you're right – this site has been and is significantly interfering with my ability to complete other requirements. I have been so nervous about leaving, but now I am just like, 3 more months is a long time – when I am finishing up courses, working on my dissertation, preparing to move for internship, etc. When I take that into account and add in the way that they treat me, it's just too much, even if it's only 3 more months.

Thank you so much for your response. Everybody's responses on here have really had an impact on me – that I have been putting up with this site's crap for much too long and I don't necessarily have to stay.

 

[erg923]

They send drafts of reports to us at 11:00 at night and ask that we do a complete revision before going to bed.

A practicum site's primary purpose, in case they forgot, is learning and teaching via doing. In that order. If they need labor who might need some supervision, then they shoud massage the budget and hire someone.

And, whats the percieved hurry? We aren't doing emergency medicine here. Your patients arent dying when their WAIS doesn't get scored that night. Are they running into deadline issues with the courts? If so, that poor planning on their part. The notion of "turn around time" is important in your professional development, but should be at the final stages of training. First you learn process and content. The you add speeed and efficencey. For most, thats not going to come until internship or later.

 

[PsyDr]

I had a problem with an unreasonable supervisor at one of my practica. Supervisor would require just stupid things, like demanding that I show up when i had a final at the same time. My solution was to cc the dct in every email, point out the conflict and ask for a resolution. Supervisor became downright reasonable.

 

[Ollie123]

I am registered for credits, but they do not technically count for anything because it's an "optional" practicum. Would that help my situation, being that they are "optional" credits and do not count towards the total credits I need to graduate?

If you are registered for credit, the only concern would be how this is handled by the university. Think of it like a class - optional or not its probably too late in the semester to "withdraw" from the class. Could it result in you "failing" it if you leave? My hope is the department wouldn't let that happen, but that is a discussion to have with your DCT to make certain.

But yes - I would definitely leave. I invest my full energy in practica when I am there, but I always kept in mind I am a student who is there for training. I set clear boundaries on my time. I assume they made this clear up front, but personally, any site that didn't allow me to have a set schedule (i.e. I work on Tuesdays from 8 to 5 and no other days ever for any reason) I wouldn't even consider as an option. I have classes, teaching, research, etc. I need to do too and none of these things can get pushed to the side at the whim of some practicum supervisor. Fortunately, all my practicums have been very clear about the fact that I am there for training. I worked hard to learn and give them the best work I could and they respected both my work and my boundaries.

Given you are registered for credits, I agree it is probably worth doing a bit more to set boundaries with them and keep them in line. If they can't be reasonable, I'd go to the DCT, make it abundantly clear I WAS leaving and ask how we can deal with it, if there would be opportunities to pick up another practicum since I am registered for credit, etc.. Again though, I can only speak from my perspective when I know that while she might hedge a bit to try and find a way to keep everyone happy, if push came to shove my DCT would have my back.

Regardless, I would make it very clear to other students in your program what working at this site entails. My program has means of sharing this information and we are encouraged to do so. I'm not sure if there are other schools in the area that send students to this site, but given they are likely dependent on free student labor to function - I think a few years of realizing that no one is willing to work with them might cause them to reconsider their approach.

 

[miserable at practicum]

A practicum site's primary purpose, in case they forgot, is learning and teaching via doing. In that order. If they need labor who might need some supervision, then they shoud massage the budget and hire someone.

And, whats the percieved hurry? We aren't doing emergency medicine here. Your patients arent dying when their WAIS doesn't get scored that night. Are they running into deadline issues with the courts? If so, that poor planning on their part. The notion of "turn around time" is important in your professional development, but should be at the final stages of training. First you learn process and content. The you add speeed and efficencey. For most, thats not going to come until internship or later.

OMG THIS. Especially the bolded parts. This is SUCH a problem. You really nailed the major problems of this site in your post.

When we do court-ordered evaluations, we technically should have 21 days, because the court orders the person to be hospitalized for 21 days, and then the court date occurs within a day or two of discharge. But whoever is in charge of sending the referral to my supervisors doesn't get around to it until say the 12th day the patient is there, sometimes later, and you are right, it's poor planning on their part. Regardless of when the court date is, we only have 5-7 days to get the report in, because, according to them, it's good to have the extra padding – they have actually said in the past, "what if something happens, somebody gets sick and needs a couple of extra days, we would want to accommodate the person writing the report." Well, that happened, I was only given one extra day, which I had to practically beg for, and was then accused of faking my illness. And was told that most of my report was well written, but one section not so much. Which I completely agree with. That section did suffer, I just didn't have enough time. I was sick.

For the record, I have never turned in a report late at this place. And I have done a lot of them. Why they would assume I was faking illness, I really have no idea.

I have gotten very good at flipping reports because of the way this place works, but I feel that content is sometimes an issue, which is incredibly frustrating. I want to be skilled at writing good reports efficiently. Like you said, process and content, and then speed and efficiency.

 

[miserable at practicum]

I had a problem with an unreasonable supervisor at one of my practica. Supervisor would require just stupid things, like demanding that I show up when i had a final at the same time. My solution was to cc the dct in every email, point out the conflict and ask for a resolution. Supervisor became downright reasonable.

That completely sounds like my site. They have asked me to come in or write reports when they know I have class. This happened a lot in the beginning, I told my DCT, who then called them (another student at my school who is also an extern there had also talked to the DCT about working too many hours) and they did stop making ridiculous requests for awhile, but eventually it started again. My supervisors are completely unreasonable.

What did you do? Did you stay at your practicum the whole time? Was your DCT supportive?

 

[miserable at practicum]

Because you have a contract to work 20 hours, you have already matched for internship, and your DCT seems to want to maintain status quo, what I would do in your situation is practice assertiveness and create proper boundaries. You are a student. You are working for free, most likely, and you are not obligated to do things in the manner they are saying. Just work at the pace that you agreed to and if they complain, be very polite and say no with a smile. This is job politics. It's the art of saying no without ever really saying no. Don't argue. Don't offer specifics in "excuses." Say you had other obligations and you will have things completed as soon as feasible. Redirect conversation to details about cases and the supervisors interests/opinions. Stay off of discussion about deadlines and time and reasons as much as possible.

This makes so much sense. You are so right – don't offer specifics in excuses. I have SUCH a bad habit of doing that – saying but I can't come in on Friday because that is the one day I work on my dissertation no matter what, I can't come in on Tuesday because I have classes. You're so right. As far as I am concerned, I shouldn't have to offer excuses. If I have put in my 20 hours for the week and don't want to come in an extra day because I want to watch March Madness games, then so be it. It's none of their business what I am doing after I have put in my hours. You're so right – don't argue and stay off discussion about deadlines as much as possible – this is where I get myself into trouble, "negotiating" with them about the deadlines. It gets me nowhere and it just goes in circles.

This all makes so much sense. I am absolutely going to implement these practices. Thank you so much.

 

[miserable at practicum]

If you are registered for credit, the only concern would be how this is handled by the university. Think of it like a class - optional or not its probably too late in the semester to "withdraw" from the class. Could it result in you "failing" it if you leave? My hope is the department wouldn't let that happen, but that is a discussion to have with your DCT to make certain.

But yes - I would definitely leave. I invest my full energy in practica when I am there, but I always kept in mind I am a student who is there for training. I set clear boundaries on my time. I assume they made this clear up front, but personally, any site that didn't allow me to have a set schedule (i.e. I work on Tuesdays from 8 to 5 and no other days ever for any reason) I wouldn't even consider as an option. I have classes, teaching, research, etc. I need to do too and none of these things can get pushed to the side at the whim of some practicum supervisor. Fortunately, all my practicums have been very clear about the fact that I am there for training. I worked hard to learn and give them the best work I could and they respected both my work and my boundaries.

Given you are registered for credits, I agree it is probably worth doing a bit more to set boundaries with them and keep them in line. If they can't be reasonable, I'd go to the DCT, make it abundantly clear I WAS leaving and ask how we can deal with it, if there would be opportunities to pick up another practicum since I am registered for credit, etc.. Again though, I can only speak from my perspective when I know that while she might hedge a bit to try and find a way to keep everyone happy, if push came to shove my DCT would have my back.

Regardless, I would make it very clear to other students in your program what working at this site entails. My program has means of sharing this information and we are encouraged to do so. I'm not sure if there are other schools in the area that send students to this site, but given they are likely dependent on free student labor to function - I think a few years of realizing that no one is willing to work with them might cause them to reconsider their approach.

Yes, you're right, I would have to ask my DCT about all of that – would it be a "failing" grade? I have no idea. I also hope that they wouldn't let that happen, but I need to find out ASAP. And actually, the class ends April 15th, so I could potentially just stay until then in order to avoid a failing grade if that were the case, and then leave.

If I am going to stay, whether it's 2 weeks, 1 month, 3 months – I need to do that, set clear boundaries with my time. My other obligations can not get pushed to the side at the whim of my supervisors any longer. Just thinking about how often I have pushed things aside because they change deadlines at the last minute or call me in on a day that I am not scheduled makes me so angry with myself. I have still managed to get everything done somehow, but something is always sacrificed (e.g., sleep, spending time with my husband and friends, appointments). And I'm certain I would be further along on my dissertation. I'm just so mad at myself for letting them bully me. I kept saying – I can't leave, I am applying for internship, and leaving could make me look really bad – so I would do whatever it took to meet their ridiculous deadlines and demands.

What you said before – you would say some choice words after about two weeks and would have walked out, it just really had an impact on me. I have read many of your posts, and know that you are an incredibly hard-working and intelligent person. The fact that you wouldn't put up with this says a lot to me. And the advice other posters on here have given, other people whose posts I have also read and admire as well. (I am not new to this forum. I have another account, which I've had for about two years, and while it's relatively anonymous, somebody could probably figure out who I was if they tried, so I created a new one in order to bring up this topic).

I think my DCT would have my back to an extent. To what extent remains to be seen. But I plan to meet with her on Tuesday and find out.

An acquaintance a year below me asked me about working at this site after interviewing there for next year. I let her know what a typical week is like, and she accepted a different practicum offer. I want more people to know, but I'm not sure what the best way to go about this is. I had no idea what I was getting into, I really wish somebody had told me how awful the site is, but I also didn't realize I knew anybody that had previously worked at the site before I started. The site does take students from other schools. You are right – they are absolutely dependent on the free labor to function. If they were faced with the prospect of losing externs (and interns!) they would absolutely hate it, but they would be forced to change their ways. My program has shared information on certain sites with other schools, and in some instances, my school and other schools stopped sending externs to these sites. To get to that point, I'm not sure what needs to happen though.

Thank you so much for your posts – it's very helpful advice!

 

[MCParent]

I don't see how you could fail if they violated their contract and refuse to comply with the agreement your prac is predicated on. You said your hours were documented, and you tried to resolve things both with the site and the DCT. If this were me and they seriously tried to fail me, I would fight it and I don't see how it would stand.

 

[miserable at practicum]

I don't see how you could fail if they violated their contract and refuse to comply with the agreement your prac is predicated on. You said your hours were documented, and you tried to resolve things both with the site and the DCT. If this were me and they seriously tried to fail me, I would fight it and I don't see how it would stand.

You know what? You're right! I have been scared for too long about the possible consequences of leaving that I have failed to look at the bigger picture. I just pulled out my contract to review it. I had assumed that it said 20 hours per week, because that is the maximum my school will allow, but it actually says 18 hours per week. Yes, my hours are all documented through Time2Track, and my supervisor and DCT signed off on the hours I had accrued through December (for our mid-year evaluation). I remember my supervisor being hesitant to sign, because I had so many hours. I remember my DCT commenting on the high number of hours. And yes, I have tried to resolve things multiple times by talking to the site and to my DCT, but ultimately backed down when I felt the DCT was being too passive, and I was too nervous about leaving because I was in the middle of applying for internship. You're right, I don't see how they could fail me – the site has clearly violated the contract. Thank you so much for your responses. I really appreciate yours and everybody else's input.

 

[PhDToBe]

You have probably already accrued the amount of hours you would accrue working 18 hours per week through June, anyhow.

 

[erg923]

This site sounds like a forensic workhouse. I would imagine the psychologists there are underpaid, not particularly happy, not therapeutically inclined, and not academically affiliated?

Part of the dangers of farming out your clinical training without proper oversight is that you run into people and places that really don't know how to supervise, nor do they really care to think much about it.

 

[miserable at practicum]

This site sounds like a forensic workhouse. I would imagine the psychologists there are underpaid, not particularly happy, not therapeutically inclined, and not academically affiliated?

Part of the dangers of farming out your clinical training without proper oversight is that you run into people and places that really don't know how to supervise, nor do they really care to think much about it.

You are correct on all of the above! Wow. Did I mention the two supervisors only work part time? And that there are 8 externs total and 2 interns? Even if you are the best supervisor in the world, this is a ridiculous set up, and destined to fail. Supervision there is such a joke. When I meet with my supervisor for "supervision" – she answers her phone all the time, she texts, she sends emails, etc. She does this to everybody during supervision. So does the other supervisor. These phone calls aren't emergencies, like a patient needs you right now – that I would be okay with, I completely get that. But answering the phone when the other supervisor is just calling to say she's heading out for the day? Completely rude. So yes, they do not know how to supervise, and they do not care. They ask me really personal questions about my life. Once when I brought up that the amount of hours I work is far more than I signed up for – my supervisor said I shouldn't have trouble managing the workload because I don't have children, and compared me to another assessment extern who does have kids. WTF?

 

[Rivi]

Good luck Miserable at Practicum (MAP?), I hope things work out for you!

The more you talk about this place, the sketchier it sounds. Unfortunately, I have come across a few places that operate like this. They are not too common, but definitely out there.

 

[Gully376]

Here is a question. What happens if you just say "My school only allows me to work 20 hours a week" I can't work any more than that. I would assume your school would back you on this if they are serious about following these guidelines. What can the site do?

 

[erg923]

You are correct on all of the above! Wow. Did I mention the two supervisors only work part time? And that there are 8 externs total and 2 interns? Even if you are the best supervisor in the world, this is a ridiculous set up, and destined to fail. Supervision there is such a joke. When I meet with my supervisor for "supervision" – she answers her phone all the time, she texts, she sends emails, etc. She does this to everybody during supervision. So does the other supervisor. These phone calls aren't emergencies, like a patient needs you right now – that I would be okay with, I completely get that. But answering the phone when the other supervisor is just calling to say she's heading out for the day? Completely rude. So yes, they do not know how to supervise, and they do not care. They ask me really personal questions about my life. Once when I brought up that the amount of hours I work is far more than I signed up for – my supervisor said I shouldn't have trouble managing the workload because I don't have children, and compared me to another assessment extern who does have kids. WTF?

Yea, kinda insulting on both ends...to people who have children AND to people who dont. lol

 

[ForensicPsych26]

I had problems at my site last year -- with the support of not only my DCT, but my entire program and school -- they removed us due to fears of safety for students and ethical concerns. Our supervisor at the site supported us (and quit after we were pulled); however, it was upper level administration who were causing the problems. Our school terminated their contract with the site due to all the problems. Other schools pulled their students out after our school removed us. I would have a serious conversation with your DCT and if she is unable to support you because she is afraid of the repercussions, I would see if there is someone else in your department who can support you in this. It sounds horrific, and just because you're a student does NOT mean they should be treating you like a slave horse. I would agree with others, set limits and don't feel as though you have to justify yourself. Good luck to you!

 

[miserable at practicum]

Here is a question. What happens if you just say "My school only allows me to work 20 hours a week" I can't work any more than that. I would assume your school would back you on this if they are serious about following these guidelines. What can the site do?

I tried this back in September/October, when I was really overwhelmed with working there so much and applying for internship. They were like, "you knew what you signed up for, we tell all assessment externs this in the interview," (they most certainly did not! I never would have accepted the offer if they had told me how it really works!) and "you might work a lot of hours some weeks, but the weeks where you don't get assigned a case, you'll work less, so it will all balance out." My DCT did intervene on behalf of me and the other extern from my school, because the site was trying to give us cases back to back, we were working 40 hours every week, so they did stop doing the back to back thing, because they had no choice. And my DCT was like, "I know this isn't desirable, but do you think you could handle working there if every week isn't 40 hours per week?" She felt like she didn't want to push the site any more, and she was worried if I quit, it would impact the internship process. So I backed down.

But you're right, what can they do? I don't care anymore. My assigned days are Wednesday and Thursday – where I get assigned a case, do testing, scoring, groups, supervision, etc. This easily fills up 20 hours. Then the first draft of the case is due Sunday, the final draft Tuesday. I am going to try this – say I can only work 20 hours a week. So on Wednesday & Thursday, I will do all that stuff, but I'm not touching anything until the following Wednesday, I'll write the report then. They will say, "but we have a deadline, you can't do that!" and I will say "I don't give a crap." Everybody on here has really empowered me to stand up for myself. And my DCT has to back me on this, the guidelines are very clear in that we can not work more than 20 hours per week per the school.

 

[erg923]

They were like, "you knew what you signed up for, we tell all assessment externs this in the interview," (they most certainly did not! I never would have accepted the offer if they had told me how it really works!) and "you might work a lot of hours some weeks, but the weeks where you don't get assigned a case, you'll work less, so it will all balance out.

You might want to point out that this "flex schedule" is not compatable with doctoral training. Working a 10 hour week and and then working a 40 hour week does NOT negate the things that the 40 hour week interupted or intefered with. Again, they are coming at this from the COMPLETELY wrong perspective and mindset. This isnt a "job," where flex schedules work well because that is you only job. Does you DCT not get this either? She is the academic here...the one that should have a better understanding than anyone what practicum training actually is. Part of that job is knowing what, exactly, the purpose of clincial training is in your program. If she doesn't really have a vision of that...then no wonder sites like this are still an option for you guys?! The above point needs to be addressed with your DCT. Politely, but firmly.

 

[miserable at practicum]

Seriously, THIS! I tried to explain this to my DCT back in the fall, and she was like, "try planning things around when you know you are going to have a case." Which I did try to do, to an extent, but it doesn't always work! After a 40 hour work week, I am always scrambling to get everything else done. To be honest, I think my DCT does get it, but is trying to find a solution that works for everybody, which is really annoying to me because she hasn't had my back. I haven't really talked to her about this whole problem since maybe January, when my site got all pissed because I was going to be out for two weeks due to internship interviews. Thank you for the advice. I will address all of this with her, like you said – politely, but firmly. I know she is busy with Phase II stuff today, but tomorrow I am going to meet with her, this needs to be resolved as soon as possible.

 

[psychRA]

Being asked to come in on a day when you're not scheduled might be a good target issue for practicing boundary setting. Tell yourself right now that you are never available on non-scheduled days. No exceptions. When you're asked to come in, use your very best broken record technique and explain that you are not available. No explanations, no excuses, no compromises - that is not your scheduled day to work, and you are not available. It may be more challenging to assert yourself around things like report completion times, but whether or not you physically transport yourself to the building is something that's a little more tangible.

 

[miserable at practicum]

Being asked to come in on a day when you're not scheduled might be a good target issue for practicing boundary setting. Tell yourself right now that you are never available on non-scheduled days. No exceptions. When you're asked to come in, use your very best broken record technique and explain that you are not available. No explanations, no excuses, no compromises - that is not your scheduled day to work, and you are not available. It may be more challenging to assert yourself around things like report completion times, but whether or not you physically transport yourself to the building is something that's a little more tangible.

You are so right. Whenever this happens, I'm like, "I can't because I need to work on my dissertation, I have to study for a final, I have a doctor appointment, I have an appointment for a facial." As frivolous as a facial appointment sounds to them, you get charged if you don't cancel within 24 hours. They laugh and call my facial appointment "frivolous," and say, "you knew that this could happen, we told you during the interview." Which they definitely didn't. I know they didn't, I never would have accepted the offer if they had said that, it would have been a huge red flag. So I reiterate that I didn't know I would have to work days other than my assigned days, and that I can't come in. They call me inflexible. I end up coming in. It's always the same. I know this sounds so silly, and I am completely embarrassed that I have let this happen – that I always end up caving to their demands and pushing aside everything else in order to accommodate them. I guess it's better late than never in terms of putting my foot down and establishing boundaries.

 

[psychRA]

I guess it's better late than never in terms of putting my foot down and establishing boundaries.

This is so true. You are not at fault for your site's total lack of appropriate boundaries - the fact that they're expecting an unpaid practicum student to be essentially on call on their days off is completely absurd - but since you have nothing to lose at this point, this is a great opportunity to practice your assertiveness skills. You don't need a letter of rec from them, your DCT is aware of the situation, and you're leaving for internship. It doesn't matter what they told you (or didn't tell you) during the interview, or how badly they want you to come in. If you're not available, you're not available.

It's unfortunate that your DCT is so concerned about preserving the relationship with this practicum site, by the way. Since they're not willing to fully back you up here, I might update the DCT each time something like this comes up, just to cover your bases. Something like "DCT, I just wanted to let you know that my practicum site called and asked me to come in Tuesday, when I am not scheduled to be on site. I notified the site that I am not available to work that day, and wanted to keep you in the loop." This way your DCT is prepared if your site complains about your "inflexibility," and (if this happens a lot) your DCT might realize how often these requests are actually occurring.

 

[PsyDr]

"What did you do? Did you stay at your practicum the whole time? Was your DCT supportive?"

I relegated the problem to my superiors. I sent out an email CC'ed to the DCT, the professor whose class had the exam, my immediate supervisor, and the site supervisor; and said something to the effect of "I am not sure how to handle this. X wants me here at 9AM, Y wants me there at 9AM. Both say they will fail me if I do not show up. Since I can't realistically be in two places at the same time, can someone tell me what to do? " I don't know what kind of BS happened behind closed doors, but supervisor became very nice very quickly.

 

[miserable at practicum]

This is so true. You are not at fault for your site's total lack of appropriate boundaries - the fact that they're expecting an unpaid practicum student to be essentially on call on their days off is completely absurd - but since you have nothing to lose at this point, this is a great opportunity to practice your assertiveness skills. You don't need a letter of rec from them, your DCT is aware of the situation, and you're leaving for internship. It doesn't matter what they told you (or didn't tell you) during the interview, or how badly they want you to come in. If you're not available, you're not available.

It's unfortunate that your DCT is so concerned about preserving the relationship with this practicum site, by the way. Since they're not willing to fully back you up here, I might update the DCT each time something like this comes up, just to cover your bases. Something like "DCT, I just wanted to let you know that my practicum site called and asked me to come in Tuesday, when I am not scheduled to be on site. I notified the site that I am not available to work that day, and wanted to keep you in the loop." This way your DCT is prepared if your site complains about your "inflexibility," and (if this happens a lot) your DCT might realize how often these requests are actually occurring.

Thank you so much for this, it's very supportive, and makes me feel better! You're right, I feel like I really have nothing to lose at this point, so it's a great time to practice my assertiveness skills. I would never ask them for a LOR whether I leave early or make it until June. You're right, it doesn't matter – I am not available outside of my two scheduled days. Not only am I unavailable to come in on unscheduled days, but I am not going to write reports from home anymore once I hit 20 hours a week. I don't care. I have too many important things going on right now, working 40 hours a week is ridiculous.

I am meeting with my DCT later this afternoon. I really do not know what she will do or say, I have complained about this site several times since September, so she is very aware of the problems, but you're right – I don't think she is aware of just how often these problems arise (e.g., them asking me to come in on unscheduled days, sending me a report at 11PM and demanding it be done before I go to bed). That is a good idea – I will document everything from now on, any ridiculous requests they make of me, and let her know. I really really hope she will be supportive, I am thinking she will be about me putting my foot down on the 20 hours a week thing, she has to be right? It's the school's rule!

I am a little nervous about how the meeting will go, and about putting my foot down at the site, but am feeling very empowered. Thank you for your responses. And thank you to everybody else who has responded! You are all so supportive and have made some very good suggestions as to how I can handle this. I will post an update after I meet with the DCT.

 

[miserable at practicum]

"What did you do? Did you stay at your practicum the whole time? Was your DCT supportive?"

I relegated the problem to my superiors. I sent out an email CC'ed to the DCT, the professor whose class had the exam, my immediate supervisor, and the site supervisor; and said something to the effect of "I am not sure how to handle this. X wants me here at 9AM, Y wants me there at 9AM. Both say they will fail me if I do not show up. Since I can't realistically be in two places at the same time, can someone tell me what to do? " I don't know what kind of BS happened behind closed doors, but supervisor became very nice very quickly.

Oh! I just reread your first post, I see now that you said your supervisor became downright reasonable, I read it as downright unreasonable, lol. I'm glad it worked out for you and your supervisor became nice! I could never imagine my supervisors being nice. They tried to be nice for like a week after a particularly bad week, I don't even remember what happened in the first place, there is always something, but it didn't last. They are just very cruel, one especially so (the one who accused me of faking sick).

 

[smalltownpsych]

Good luck with your meeting and as previous posters have pointed out, learning to be assertive and set appropriate professional boundaries is an essential part of the training experience. Trust me, this will not be the last time you face this issue.

 

[erg923]

Oh! I just reread your first post, I see now that you said your supervisor became downright reasonable, I read it as downright unreasonable, lol. I'm glad it worked out for you and your supervisor became nice! I could never imagine my supervisors being nice. They tried to be nice for like a week after a particularly bad week, I don't even remember what happened in the first place, there is always something, but it didn't last. They are just very cruel, one especially so (the one who accused me of faking sick).

Does your state require ongoing CEUs in supervision? What is the training background of these "supervisors?" If they dont want to supervise, then why did they agree to take a student in the first place. Usually this is a choice, at least to some degree.

 

[miserable at practicum]

Good luck with your meeting and as previous posters have pointed out, learning to be assertive and set appropriate professional boundaries is an essential part of the training experience. Trust me, this will not be the last time you face this issue.

Thank you! You're absolutely right. Hopefully I do not encounter a situation as bad as this one, but I know that I will deal with not so great supervisors in my career. I have just been very lucky over the last few years – practicum sites with great supervisors. I have had horrible supervisors in past jobs, one job where it got really bad, I found another job and put in my 2 weeks. But with practicum, even though it's unpaid, you can't just leave without potential consequences! It's maddening!

 

[smalltownpsych]

My worst experience with a clinical supervisor was at my internship. Fortunately, I had great experiences at all of my practicums. The real challenge for me has been dealing with organizations and/or administrators that are not as committed to providing the best services as they are to either political or financial agendas.

 

[miserable at practicum]

Does your state require ongoing CEUs in supervision? What is the training background of these "supervisors?" If they dont want to supervise, then why did they agree to take a student in the first place. Usually this is a choice, at least to some degree.

I just googled it, because I did not know the answer. 30 hours of CEs per year, 3 CE hours must be "ethics," and 3 CE hours must be "cultural awareness." So no. Is this common, that states require CEs in supervision?

My school's contract stipulates that we receive two hours of supervision per week at our practicum site, so that is why they supervise us. I know that they hate the supervision, but they figure the pay off is much greater (e.g., having a bunch of externs and interns running all the groups for the psychology department, having us churn out reports). If our contract didn't stipulate that there be supervision, it definitely wouldn't happen, at least not on a regular basis. There is only one other psychologist in the hospital, I never even see her. Beyond everything I have discussed, there are a lot of other problems. It's a private psychiatric hospital, and things just don't run very well, the CEO is very cheap. The two supervisors I deal with are part time, and this works well with their schedules. If I had to guess, I would say that they are comfortable with the flexibility the hospital gives them with their schedules, and all they are asked to do is make sure groups run and reports get done. So I would imagine that they would rather just "deal" with the supervision aspect because that means they don't have to do testing/reports or run groups. They definitely don't care about being a good supervisor. To them – as long as supervision happens, they are doing their job.

 

[erg923]

I just googled it, because I did not know the answer. 30 hours of CEs per year, 3 CE hours must be "ethics," and 3 CE hours must be "cultural awareness." So no. Is this common, that states require CEs in supervision?

My school's contract stipulates that we receive two hours of supervision per week at our practicum site, so that is why they supervise us. I know that they hate the supervision, but they figure the pay off is much greater (e.g., having a bunch of externs and interns running all the groups for the psychology department, having us churn out reports). If our contract didn't stipulate that there be supervision, it definitely wouldn't happen, at least not on a regular basis. There is only one other psychologist in the hospital, I never even see her. Beyond everything I have discussed, there are a lot of other problems. It's a private psychiatric hospital, and things just don't run very well, the CEO is very cheap. The two supervisors I deal with are part time, and this works well with their schedules. If I had to guess, I would say that they are comfortable with the flexibility the hospital gives them with their schedules, and all they are asked to do is make sure groups run and reports get done. So I would imagine that they would rather just "deal" with the supervision aspect because that means they don't have to do testing/reports or run groups. They definitely don't care about being a good supervisor. To them – as long as supervision happens, they are doing their job.

Its not common, most likely. But it is required in my state.

Is the full time psych like an admin or department director? Does she have supervsiory powers over these part-time psychs? When we once had a supervisor who nobody like or thought was effective on internship, we simply took it to the TD and the chief of the service. She didnt supervise us anymore after that.

 

[miserable at practicum]

My worst experience with a clinical supervisor was at my internship. Fortunately, I had great experiences at all of my practicums. The real challenge for me has been dealing with organizations and/or administrators that are not as committed to providing the best services as they are to either political or financial agendas.

I'm sorry – that sucks! I really hope I don't have to deal with this on my internship, but of course, I know it's a possibility. But even if it's one bad supervisor out of three or four while on internship, that's much much better than dealing with two like the ones I am dealing with now! When I was interviewing for internships, I really looked for red flags that could indicate problems like the ones at my current site. I felt uneasy about two sites, I couldn't put my finger on it, and ranked them at the bottom. Luckily, I didn't match to either of those!

 

[miserable at practicum]

Its not common, most likely. But it is required in my state. Is the full time psych like an admin of department director? Does she have supervsiory powers over these part-time psychs? When we once had a supervisor who nobody like or thought was effective on internship, we simply took it to the TD and the chief of the service. She didnt supervise us anymore after that.

It definitely does not seem like a bad thing to require CEs for supervision! The full time psychologist does not have supervisory power over the part time psychologists. One of the part time psychologists is actually the Training Director. The full time psychologist does not deal with any training issues. Actually, I do think she may supervise the two interns for an hour a week, not totally sure about that though. I really do not even know who supervises the two I deal with! I will definitely find out. Glad it worked out in your situation, that she just didn't supervise you anymore after that!

 

[PhDToBe]

What ever became of this situation?

 

[miserable at practicum]

So I never posted an update because I was so completely embarrassed and upset about how everything played out. But so many people offered support and suggestions, I felt like I should post an update. So, I met with my DCT shortly after my last post, and she was not willing to listen to anything I had to say, she appeared irritated by the whole thing, that I would "bother" her with something so trivial. I explained that the insane hours I work at my site are really getting to me, and how I was upset that the site accused me of faking illness so that I could get a one day extension. All she really said was, "you knew what it would be like there going in, you knew what to expect." I was like, "no, I didn't know it would be like this, and if it's not going to change, I want out." She was all, "you'll have to call your internship site and let them know," "you signed a contract saying you would be there through June 20," "you'll get a failing grade if you leave early." I was like, would you support me if I wanted to leave early? And she said no. She suggested I talk to my supervisors, but she didn't seem to think it would do any good, because my request to not work more than 20 hours a week doesn't mesh with their ridiculous 5-7 day turnaround on reports.

The next day, before I could even tell the supervisors I wanted to talk about my hours and what was bothering me, I found out I had a case. I was super mad and super stressed, the one thing that this site has adhered to the whole year is not assigning us cases back to back, because that would violate the whole 40 hours one week, 15 hours the next week thing. Even if I was okay with working this much, I had like 4 major assignments due the following week for school. There was no way I could take on a case AND get all of my other work done. So I tried setting boundaries like everybody on here suggested. I firmly stated that my scheduled days are Wednesday and Thursday, I would start the case, administer testing and all that (this is in addition to the groups I run and other stuff I do not related to testing on these days), but after that, I couldn't work on it until the following Wednesday. They were pissed. They said, that's not going to work, the deadline is this Sunday. I just kept saying W & Th are my scheduled days. A lot of back and forth – them saying that won't work, you know how it works here, why was I being difficult, me saying I could only work on Wednesdays and Thursdays. I finally said, I have a lot of assignments for school due early next week, I just can't do what you are asking of me (I hate that I caved and offered an explanation, but I just felt it was going nowhere, they were yelling at me, and I just did not know what to do). They accused me of not being a good at multitasking, and asked me why weren't these school assignments done already? Which is ridiculous, I had started these assignments, but I still had a lot to do on them, and wasn't supposed to get a case that week, and it's none of their business. But I wouldn't budge, I refused to work more than Wednesday and Thursday that week. They said I could have an extension, just this one time, and that it was really messing everything up somehow – which was just them being bitchy, I wasn't messing up anything, the court date on this one was actually within a normal time frame for once, 21 days out. Then they said they would need to call my DCT because of my "time management" problems and because I was "always asking for extensions" (this time and the previous case where I needed an extra day because I was sick). The fact that I have done 20 cases within the deadline prior to this – not relevant to them at all. It was all about me "always asking for extensions." I was like, whatever. I know that they reframe things to make the externs look bad and to bolster their ridiculous demands.

My DCT freaked out, was a complete b&*ch, and told me I needed to comply with the way they do things. My site sent a letter to her listing all of the things I "do wrong." My DCT emailed my adviser and dissertation chair saying I was having problems at the site. I had been meaning to email them anyway. I met with my adviser and dissertation chair, and they were completely supportive, but there really wasn't anything they could do. My adviser told me that I would probably get a failing grade if I left early (my DCT had told her this), and she didn't think it would affect my internship, but this failing grade could follow me around forever, she really hated that I had to deal with all of this, and if I wanted to quit she would understand, she just advised against it because I had already put up with this site since August, so it would really suck to get a failing grade after all the work I had put in. I was really upset by everything, but I decided to stay. I felt completely intimidated and worried about any potential consequences (e.g., my internship, a failing grade) leaving might have. I still don't know if my DCT was lying to me about me having to call my internship site if I quit, I just didn't want to take the risk. So I am still there, nothing has changed, I still hate it, and I have 6 weeks left. I feel so embarrassed that I wasn't able to establish firm boundaries, I felt so empowered after everybody's suggestions and support, but I also know that I had no support from my DCT. So I felt stuck. June 20 can not come soon enough.

 

[psych84]

It be great if you could create paragraphs, that is hard to read.

 

[Ollie123]

So sorry to hear it. If you'd feel comfortable PMing the name of your program, I'd be very interested in hearing it. I have a bunch of students applying this year and I'd like to be able to warn them away from that environment if any are considering applying. Control of the grade is in their hands so the idea that they would let you receive a failing grade for a site whose behavior is so outrageous is obscene.

 

[KillerDiller]

Wow, that's horrible. I'm so sorry, Miserable at Practicum. I hope June 20th comes for you soon and you can put all of this behind you soon.

 

[erg923]

Print out this thread and present our responses/arguments to your DCT. She should see them.

If your side is 100% true, no ethical and reasonable academic faculty/psychologist could see this as anything but 1.) A training site that wants free slave labor and not to train/supervise. 2.) A DCT that has been derelict in her duty to protect you from exploitation and ensure proper academic training. Period.

**Please remember you signed a "contract" (or whatever) to be a practicum student and for them to provide training. They signed something too, Im sure, right? They have deal they have to keep too. You committed to be a apracticum student who recives training until X date. This not a blank check. You did not sign up to work there until X date no matter what, right?!