Can Ted Cruz really make 10% flat tax for everyone work, without destroying the Economy?

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urge said:
Blade, settle down. We understand you are feeling the Bern, and you don't like it.

We get it.
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The current tax code is already very progressive. I agree there are loopholes in the tax code which rich individuals can exploit. That's why the answer is to lower the brackets but eliminate all the deductions.

Even though I hate all types of taxes I think taxing the purchase of "goods" at the point of sale, i.e., a national sales tax, is another way to raise revenue so that the drug dealer and prostitute have to pay something into the system.
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BLADEMDA said:
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:rolleyes:
 
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BLADEMDA said:
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Ahh... If it were only 1913; when you could lock your workers into high rises made of kindling, get your 12 year olds into the coal mines, force 7 day workweeks, and keep ethnic folks from gettin jobs without the pesky government tellin you to hire them because they're just as qualified and American as you.
 
Pooh & Annie said:
Ahh... If it were only 1913; when you could lock your workers into high rises made of kindling, get your 12 year olds into the coal mines, force 7 day workweeks, and keep ethnic folks from gettin jobs without the pesky government tellin you to hire them because they're just as qualified and American as you.
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Typical liberal logic: Social Policy has nothing to do with historic tax rates and the FACT the USA was founded on the principal of limited government. We managed to prosper as a nation without any income tax and then in 1913 the rate was about 2%.

The nation was built on the concept of hard work and limited government intrusion. The welfare state is NOT something the Founders wanted in the USA.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Alexander Fraser Tytler
 
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BLADEMDA said:
Typical liberal logic: Social Policy has nothing to do with historic tax rates and the FACT the USA was founded on the principal of limited government. We managed to prosper as a nation without any income tax and then in 1913 the rate was about 2%.
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You never cease to amaze me with your indisputable logic and the depth of your instinctual wisdom!
I would vote for you if you run for president!
 
BLADEMDA said:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Alexander Fraser Tytler
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That's why I think only people who work should be allowed to vote.
 
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Planktonmd said:
You never cease to amaze me with your indisputable logic and the depth of your instinctual wisdom!
I would vote for you if you run for president!
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Benjamin Franklin, one of the founders, would not be a fan of today's socialism and I'm quite certain you would call him an idiot.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
Typical liberal logic: Social Policy has nothing to do with historic tax rates and the FACT the USA was founded on the principal of limited government. We managed to prosper as a nation without any income tax and then in 1913 the rate was about 2%.

The nation was built on the concept of hard work and limited government intrusion. The welfare state is NOT something the Founders wanted in the USA.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Alexander Fraser Tytler
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The founders probably didn't want the country to collapse economically as 20% of the country amassed 80% of its wealth, pushing the middle class into poverty. (Of course you and I don't know this because big business and industry didn't exist in the US at that time, and the founders couldn't have foreseen multi-billionaires getting multi-million dollar severance packages after taking their businesses into the toilet).

This Tytler character sounds like an idiot. You do realize that the average Bernie voter is educated and middle class? Poor people are voting for Hillary, Trump, or Cruz.

I don't know if it's a majority, but a LOT of Americans vote based on what they THINK will help the country, not on what puts more money in their own wallet.
 
Pooh & Annie said:
The founders probably didn't want the country to collapse economically as 20% of the country amassed 80% of its wealth, pushing the middle class into poverty. (Of course you and I don't know this because big business and industry didn't exist in the US at that time, and the founders couldn't have foreseen multi-billionaires getting multi-million dollar severance packages after taking their businesses into the toilet).

This Tytler character sounds like an idiot. You do realize that the average Bernie voter is educated and middle class? Poor people are voting for Hillary, Trump, or Cruz.

I don't know if it's a majority, but a LOT of Americans vote based on what they THINK will help the country, not on what puts more money in their own wallet.
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Socialism has been tried over and over again throughout the centuries: It always fails. Whatever troubles avails the USA now won't be made better with Bernie changing the greatest nation ever founded in the history of the world.
 
BLADEMDA said:
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A brilliant man, no doubt! I wonder how he'd feel knowing that nowadays, millions of American families live below the poverty line despite the head of household working full time. He'd be appalled to know that most poor people have jobs. Read about Ben Franklin, then try to convince yourself he wouldn't be a liberal democrat.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Socialism has been tried over and over again throughout the centuries: It always fails. Whatever troubles avails the USA now won't be made better with Bernie changing the greatest nation ever founded in the history of the world.
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You are saying that countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and most of Europe have failed???
What metrics are you using to decide who fails and who succeeds???
 
Planktonmd said:
You are saying that countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and most of Europe have failed???
What metrics are you using to decide who fails and who succeeds???
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No. I'm saying the USA is different than Sweden and Denmark. The founding principals of this nation, the USA, is one of individual liberty and individual responsibility. Over time the USA has moved in a Socialistic direction which is why "Bernie" can get so many votes in the primary. This movement has made us poorer not richer as a nation and brought about the welfare state mentality. The USA will eventually need to decide between defense spending and liberal social spending as the nation's debt spirals out of control.

FYI, the massive defense budget would not be in line with the principals of the founders either.
 
So, corporations pay more taxes in the US than the other countries... despite that we have more poverty, less education, less health care, and crumbling infrastructure... how do you explain that?
Is that because we have socialism???
 
Planktonmd said:
So, corporations pay more taxes in the US than the other countries... despite that we have more poverty, less education, less health care, and crumbling infrastructure... how do you explain that?
Is that because we have socialism???
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"Crony Capitalism" as multi-nationals pay off Politicians to get large tax breaks. The largest companies pay a lot less in taxes that you realize. We need to level the playing field and not make it worse as Sanders proposes.
 
BLADEMDA said:
"Crony Capitalism" as multi-nationals pay off Politicians to get large tax breaks. The largest companies pay a lot less in taxes that you realize. We need to level the playing field and not make it worse as Sanders proposes.
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That crony capitalism happens everywhere, do you know that the whole concept of off shore tax heavens was invented in England? and that every major company in Europe plays this game, the only difference is that these countries have "socialist" systems that keep an eye on this money drain and prevents it from destroying their economies.
 
Blade if I ever meet you in real life, I am going to take the ctrl key, the c key, and the v key off of your keyboard
 
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Pooh & Annie said:
A brilliant man, no doubt! I wonder how he'd feel knowing that nowadays, millions of American families live below the poverty line despite the head of household working full time. He'd be appalled to know that most poor people have jobs. Read about Ben Franklin, then try to convince yourself he wouldn't be a liberal democrat.
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Planktonmd said:
Correct!
What is needed is a radical change in the way people think about money.
The American dream that was taught to people at a time when consumerism was necessary to keep up with a strong industrial economy does not work today.
We still behave as we behaved in the good old days when the economy was solid and the american industry dominated the world. We still think that everyone should own a house and have a nice car and buy all kinds of unnecessary garbage to achieve the american dream.
It used to be that you could get all these nice things if you work hard at your blue collar job that required minimal education, and as a result the vast majority of people still don't think that higher education is important or needed to realize one's ambitions.
So unless we change this outdated mentality we are doomed.
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Everyone should be able to own a house or a car or both. The difference between now and then is the methods used to attempt to attain that dream.

Then: considered the end-point of hard work and personal property.

Now: considered a "right" and demands that everyone else support their right.

You will never escape taxes, and I say that as a libertarian. But you can mitigate who you are responsible for supporting. Going back to less federal oversight and more states' rights will mitigate that. Scaling back on what the fed is actually supposed to do will help. Getting rid of pork will help. Auditing the fed and restructuring the IRS will help. Stopping lobbying, corporate welfare will help. Getting the fed out of things private industry could do better will help (rail travel!, social welfare, etc).
 
Random Resident said:
Well that makes sense. Look who is in obama's cabinet.
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That stuff goes on with both sides but more so with the Dems. As corrupt as the Republicans are (and they are) the elite Democrats are even more so because they pretend to be for the poor and the minorities while the leadership is clearly in bed with big business and Wall Street. That's why "the Bern' has caught on because he is a true socialist not like the others who want to get rich through Crony Capitalism.

If you want Socialism Bernie is your man.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
"Crony Capitalism" as multi-nationals pay off Politicians to get large tax breaks. The largest companies pay a lot less in taxes that you realize. We need to level the playing field and not make it worse as Sanders proposes.
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I see. Bernie's attacks on lobbying, too big to fail, corporate welfare, and superPACs, in YOUR interpretation, mean that he wants to increase multi-national payoffs and lobbying, lessen large corporation taxes, and more inequality and crony capitalism. Those are pretty much the opposite of everything he has ever said, but I'm certainly no mind reader.
 
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So look we are ok with ethanol subsidies, sugar subsidies, tax breaks for multinationals who claim rights reserved as individuals while keeping trillions in profits untaxed,( go ahead try to keep your salary earned overseas untaxed), subsidies for agribusiness. Why yes we do don't we
 
Random Resident said:
Everyone should be able to own a house or a car or both. The difference between now and then is the methods used to attempt to attain that dream.

Then: considered the end-point of hard work and personal property.

Now: considered a "right" and demands that everyone else support their right.

You will never escape taxes, and I say that as a libertarian. But you can mitigate who you are responsible for supporting. Going back to less federal oversight and more states' rights will mitigate that. Scaling back on what the fed is actually supposed to do will help. Getting rid of pork will help. Auditing the fed and restructuring the IRS will help. Stopping lobbying, corporate welfare will help. Getting the fed out of things private industry could do better will help (rail travel!, social welfare, etc).
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Thus is kind of confusing. Are you saying there's a movement somewhere arguing that people should have free cars and houses without working? Please give your reference. If your referring to social programs that support the poor, you are probably aware that most poor/lower economic class people work or have heads of households that work. Even then, no one is arguing they should get a free house or car.

All REASONABLE people agree with the lobbying and corporate welfare stuff.

And which private industry is it that is or has ever provided adequate social welfare?
 
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