Can you do a PhD in something you don't have as an undergrad in MSTP?

[PicardAndRoll]

I know you can get a graduate degree in something you didn't do in undergrad in just regular academia (i.e, BS to PhD, etc.) if the fields have sufficient overlap, but I don't know if the same logic applies to MD/PhDs.

For example, I know a lot of Physics BS students that get Engineering PhDs/vice versa, or someone who has a BS in Chemistry doing a PhD in Physics.

I was contemplating on doing Bioengineering for the PhD component of an MD/PhD, if I apply.

However, for some personal reasons, I might switch majors to Math and Chemistry. I'm taking some real engineering classes on the side.

I do research in mathematical biology and biological simulations. Some relevant courses to Bioengineering that I'll have hopefully by the time I graduate:

C Programming
Numerical Analysis and Advanced Programming I and II
Dynamical Systems in Biology
Mathematical Modeling in Biology
Genetics
Cell Physiology
Microbiology
Immunology
Neural Engineering
Circuit Analysis
Experimental Design
Thermodynamics
Partial Differential Equations
and Chem all the way up Biochem II and Inorganic Chemistry

I might try to do research in bioengineering at my institution to get a more credible background in the field, too.

Would this be enough interdisciplinary background to warrant a PhD in Bioengineering despite having an undergrad that has been centered around Math?

My degree will be tailored to be more of an Applied Math than a pure math degree, focusing on numerical simulations and tackling physical/biological problems with math as opposed to proving random theorems about prime numbers or Galois fields.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[smithers12]

You're going to be fine. IMO the techniques you need to pick up to join a bioengineering lab are fairly independent of any coursework you will take since the field is so broad. It's traditionally very computational, so you want to have a good command of math and programming, but it sounds like you've done enough of that already.

No MSTP is going to question your commitment to bioengineering given the coursework you have listed here, especially if you are working in a lab in your institution's bioengineering department.

The bigger concern is what major would be the path of least resistance with regards to your GPA. You should pursue your interests in math and chemistry, but the reality of the process is, if your current path may require you to take a hit in your GPA, you may want to consider doing a bioengineering degree if the courseload will be easier.

 

[daolso]

Yes, you will be able to do a PhD in BME. There may be some extra hoops to jump through depending on the school though. I know my undergrad requires the GRE of candidates that did not do a BS in engineering.

http://medicine.osu.edu/admissions/mstp/selection-process/pages/index.aspx

 

[PicardAndRoll]

Deviating from Chemistry, math is something I find really interesting on a personal level, which is why I'm shifting towards it as my undergrad. I'm "naturally" good at it. There are days where I just don't study for math tests and prove stuff and derive equations to use. It hasn't failed me. Math is a relaxation hobby for me. There has never been a math assignment that I've ever taken where I haven't made an A, so I actually think it's not resisting to my GPA at all actually. I tutor at a math learning center (~5 years now), am part of a NSF funded math group (I qualified for it even from my old major), and have presented at conferences about mathematical biology

Chem is meh, only concern I have might be P-Chem, but it's very quantitative, so hopefully that'll help a bit. I think Chemistry might be the "resisting" factor. If so, I might just take enough relevant Chemistry electives and advertise myself as an Applied Mathematician who has a background in computer science, chemistry, biology, and physics.

 

[PicardAndRoll]

Yes, you will be able to do a PhD in BME. There may be some extra hoops to jump through depending on the school though. I know my undergrad requires the GRE of candidates that did not do a BS in engineering.

http://medicine.osu.edu/admissions/mstp/selection-process/pages/index.aspx

Regular GRE?
Biology GRE?
GRE of my field, so Math?

 

[daolso]

Regular GRE?
Biology GRE?
GRE of my field, so Math?

Just the regular one. See the website I posted. And it will probably come up in interviews (why you didn't major in engineering as an undergrad, why you want to now), but again, I don't think it will be a big issue, especially if you have BME research/coursework done and a good story.

 

[PicardAndRoll]

Just the regular one. See the website I posted. And it will probably come up in interviews (why you didn't major in engineering as an undergrad, why you want to now), but again, I don't think it will be a big issue, especially if you have BME research/coursework done and a good story.

I already took the regular one late last year. My original major was a fast track undergrad+grad program and they wanted it prior taking a certain threshold of course content.

I got a 327.

168Q, 159V

Would it look better to take the Biology/Math ones, too? My concentration in mathematical biology forces me to take a senior level Evolution course, so it might cover content on the evolution segment of the Bio GRE+Whatever I can self study.

Also, what's a good alibi for why I didn't major in Bioengineering? My real answer is that Mathematics is a field that I believe helps me grow the most as a student provided by background and interests, but I've tailored it to meet expectations of future requirements for what I wanted to do.

I didn't want to sit in statics, dynamics, CAD classes, materials science, etc.

 

[daolso]

I already took the regular one late last year. My original major was a fast track undergrad+grad program and they wanted it prior taking a certain threshold of course content.

I got a 327.

168Q, 159V

Would it look better to take the Biology/Math ones, too? My concentration in mathematical biology forces me to take a senior level Evolution course, so it might cover content on the evolution segment of the Bio GRE+Whatever I can self study.

Also, what's a good alibi for why I didn't major in Bioengineering? My real answer is that Mathematics is a field that I believe helps me grow the most as a student provided by background and interests, but I've tailored it to meet expectations of future requirements for what I wanted to do.

I didn't want to sit in statics, dynamics, CAD classes, materials science, etc.

Nahh you'll be fine with the standard GRE. 327 is solid. Basically it's just to appease the BME Department, which doesn't trust that you'll get the same training outside of engineering. At OSU anyway, many probably won't require it; check websites. For admissions, the MCAT is most important.

You don't need an alibi, exactly, more of just a reason why you are interested in BME in particular. Essentially, what you said is fine. Mention that you are more interested in the computational/modeling aspects of the field, connect that back to BME and talk about particular areas of research and research groups at the school you are interviewing at you are interested in.

Some MD/PhD schools also have PhD options in Applied Mathematics or Bioinformatics, so you may want to consider those, or have a reason why you would pick BME over those when applying to such schools.

No reason to panic though. Just plan ahead a little and you'll be fine.

 

[Mel Belle]

I'm currently a biochemistry major looking to go MD/PhD. I've been thinking about doing biomedical engineering for a PhD. I'm working on a physics minor (and subsequently getting a math minor). Should I be okay with that or should I look into taking engineering classes, too? I'm already more than halfway through my biochemistry program so I'm not really interested in taking extra years if I don't really have to. I haven't gone that far into my physics minor so maybe I should switch it out for engineering classes? I'm not really sure what to do, to be honest. Waiting to hear back from some mentors.

 

[Mel Belle]

Bump?

I have an extra year tacked on because I had a year of medical leave, meaning 3 years left for me. These are the two options I'm looking at:

1. Change to chemical engineering
2. Stay biochemistry with a physics minor

With option #1 I would think that engineering background would be sufficient to go into biomedical engineering (or chemical engineering, even) as a PhD. Plus, if I complete the pre-engineering sequence at my college I am automatically accepted into a master's program at a big university nearby. It's expected you do the master's if you did the pre-engineering program. I wouldn't have a problem with that because it would only be helpful toward a PhD.

With option #2 I would still have a fairly solid physics/math background. But I would also have more elective credits (as opposed to one elective with CHME) in order to take more biology electives with physiological or molecular focus and, of course, chemistry. I would also have room to take quantum mechanics! Which is just a class that seems really interesting. People on here also think taking that class "changes your outlook on life". I like physics, so why not!

I think I would ideally go with #2, I think it's just a matter of whether or not that will be sufficient to do a biomedical engineering PhD as part of an MD/PhD program. If I have to go with #1 I would still enjoy it, but I would be stressed about scheduling the courses because I'm technically behind schedule on math for CHME.

Someone pleeeaase respond to this thread.

 

[okemba]

Hey,

I can't comment as to admissions, but I can comment as to whether you'll be technically prepared for bioengineering PhDs.

@PicardAndRoll - Yes, you are absolutely intellectually prepared for a bioengineering PhD. I don't know if I would recommend taking too many engineering courses. They tend not to be worth much if you have a strong background in math (it tends to be a lot of, here is this basic principle, now lets go apply it and do 20 pages of tedious algebra). I would recommend taking a course in materials/energy balances though. That's one fundamental engineering course that I actually thought was of value. The main things I learned from it were how to analyze mass and energy transfer through systems (it sounded really trivial when I first started looking through the textbook, but just doing a bunch of these problems taught me a useful way of conceptualizing a lot of things).

@Mel Belle - I think it depends on your research interests. If you're interested in biology-biology or systems biology or bioinformatics or anything computational at all, then I think biochem+physics minor is the better choice If you're interested in tissue engineering or biomaterials, then ChemE is probably a better bet.

I vote #2 though, because engineering undergrads tend to be a lot of busy work.

 

[Mel Belle]

Hey,

I can't comment as to admissions, but I can comment as to whether you'll be technically prepared for bioengineering PhDs.

@Mel Belle - I think it depends on your research interests. If you're interested in biology-biology or systems biology or bioinformatics or anything computational at all, then I think biochem+physics minor is the better choice If you're interested in tissue engineering or biomaterials, then ChemE is probably a better bet.

I vote #2 though, because engineering undergrads tend to be a lot of busy work.

#2 would definitely be the easier choice in terms of scheduling. With #1 I would need to get a car to drive to the University where my engineering classes would be in. Which could cause issues scheduling other classes at my college in general. So I'm not even entirely 100% sure that I will be able to do the engineering stuff within the time I have left at school. It's just a tangled mess of stress. But I would definitely do it if I can and I should.

I still have plenty of time to decide exactly what I want to research but something like tissue engineering, biomaterials, pharmaceuticals, biophysics, or related fields. Whatever it is it will likely be chemistry heavy, because I very much love chemistry.