Can you get into medical school with a poor GPA?

[C. Ronaldo]

I have been out of college since 1999, but I didnt do that well when I was there, mainly because I was lazy. My GPA is around 2.7. Does anyone know the best strategy to get into MD school with this GPA? I plan on taking the premed courses at a university in a non-formal postbac program, possibly completing a second bachelors in something like Biology, and maybe doing a masters in biomedical science. Do you think getting through this with a strong GPA will compensate for my poor GPA the first time around? I was thinking of the DO route but on the message board there is a lot of general unhappiness with the way the DO profession is run. Thanks

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[Mr Reddly]

Move to TX... Just don't tell Roja I said that.

 

[SoCalOrBust]

Kick a$$ on the MCAT and they may overlook the GPA- figuring that it doesnt represent you well. If you do well on the premed courses your past GPA will be even less significant. I don't know if going through another BS will be worth it, and the masters might be overdoing it IMO.

Good luck!

 

[JunkintheTrunk]

the DO route is great, i don't know where you're getting the information that it's run poorly..... anywho, 2.7 is pretty low, especially for MD schools, at which the average GPA is 3.5+. most schools have a GPA or MCAT score cut off, where if you're not above a certain score, you're out before you even get a second look. granted, scores aren't everything, but they do say alot. if they see the 2.7 from undergrad and assume (like you mentioned) that you were just lazy, why should they take you over someone who was determined in undergrad? it's a tough call, but i think showing stellar grades in everything else you are going to do might cancel the bad stuff out from before. an upward trend in grades is always better than downward, and showing the initiative that you really WANT it now will show the adcoms that you mean business

 

[Alexander99]

Post bacc clases/grad classes combined with a high MCAT (33+) is your only option. A 2.7 won't cut it no matter what at any MD school. If you take more classes and do really well (3.8+) and get that 33 or higher on the MCAT, you might have a shot at getting into one of the lower tier MD schools. I'd apply to DO schools simultaneously as well.

 

[ttac]

I have been out of college since 1999, but I didnt do that well when I was there, mainly because I was lazy. My GPA is around 2.7. Does anyone know the best strategy to get into MD school with this GPA? I plan on taking the premed courses at a university in a non-formal postbac program, possibly completing a second bachelors in something like Biology, and maybe doing a masters in biomedical science. Do you think getting through this with a strong GPA will compensate for my poor GPA the first time around? I was thinking of the DO route but on the message board there is a lot of general unhappiness with the way the DO profession is run. Thanks

Are you a URM? That would definitely change things a bit.

Otherwise, if have a GPA < 3.0, you need to give the adcoms a reason to accept you over everyone else that has GPAs of >3.5. You're going to need postbac grades or masters program grades of > 3.7 probably. You'll need great MCATs. Hopefully you have something to offer to the school that's outside of the typical cookie-cutter premed formula. I had strong mcats and a weak GPA, and it took me 3 application cycles to get in, but I eventually did. Take a look at mdapplicants.com. My profile is here:
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=115

Even with all of that, it's still a crapshoot. Good luck.

 

[C. Ronaldo]

What is a URM? And the comment about Texas, is it easier for Texas residents to get into Texas schools, or were you just kidding in general?

 

[ttac]

A (An?) URM is an underrepresented minority, such as African American, Native American, Mexican American, etc.

...as opposed to an ORM (over-represented minority such as Asians)

 

[Alexander99]

What is a URM? And the comment about Texas, is it easier for Texas residents to get into Texas schools, or were you just kidding in general?

URM = "Underrepresented Minority" = black, hispanic, native american. Your grades and MCAT basically can be a lot lower and you can still get in if you're an URM.

It's the case that it's easier for any applicant (not counting California or New York residents) to get into their state schools but this is especially true of Texas. Texas has a lot of med schools and spots so if you're a Texas resident, it's generally a lot easier to get into med school than if you're a resident of another state.

 

[Megalofyia]

What is a URM? And the comment about Texas, is it easier for Texas residents to get into Texas schools, or were you just kidding in general?

Theoretically it's easier for a Texas resident because of the number of schools. However don't move to Texas if that's your only reason for doing so. They are just as much a crapshot as any other school. If anything North Dakota has the best acceptance rate. Plus as Trauma Junky and I have found out the Texas schools aren't necessarily forgiving of lower undergrad GPAs. I was told by one dean that they didn't accept me because of my undergrad GPA despite a 4.0 grad school GPA.

 

[Mr Reddly]

What is a URM? And the comment about Texas, is it easier for Texas residents to get into Texas schools, or were you just kidding in general?

It was a joke at Roja's expense.

Here are the charts for you to make up your own mind.

<GPA/MCAT scores for matriculants by state of residency AND Applicants/Matriculants per state>
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2003/2003slrmat.htm
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2003/mcatgpastatemat.htm

They both came from here
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/

 

[TiggidyTooth]

To the OP, a post-bac (perhaps master's) is your only shot at getting into medical school and I highly encourage you to investigate the Post-bac forum here on sdn. There are a lot of encouraging and knowledgable people posting there and would serve you well. It's an uphill climb but certainly not one that has not been conquered before by people with even worse numbers.

Tooth

 

[jlee9531]

you should PM exmike and look at his mdapplicants.

but take post bacc classes and ace them.
perhaps take graduate level courses and finish a MS/MPH etc...
rock the MCAT with a high score.

whether or not you are an URM, a 2.7 will severely limit your opportunities regardless of the rest of your application. If you want to do medicine, then be prepared the next few years doing those things above. good luck.

 

[SolidGold]

Post-bac work will be necessary if you really want to be an MD. There are some worthy Masters programs out there also. High MCAT score (32 or higher) will help you tremendously but there is no school out there that will discount your 2.7 GPA even if you get a 40 on the MCAT. So you need to show you can do well in higher level courses to prove you can handle the workload in medical school.

Of course, DO school and going overseas for MD school are other options that may be a quicker route to becoming a doctor, but even those will require at least a decent MCAT score.

Just work your a$$ off if this is really want you want to commit the rest of your life to, anything's possible if you are willing to put the effort into it. Good luck!

 

[ttac]

I looked at exmike's mdapp's page, and here is my take on the differences between his and my low-undergrad-GPA apps:

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=922
http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=115

(since exmike and I both had low GPAs, but he got into higher ranked schools (although don't get me wrong, I love Drexel) I decided to see how we stacked up against each other to compare strengths/weaknesses to see why his application was more competitive)

Demographics: Both of us are E. Asian males from California. Neutral.

GPA: exmike (3.1) vs ttac (2.8). Exmike has the clear advantage here. He was on the dean's list near the end and really turned his undergrad career around. OTOH, I never really showed that I had turned myself around, and only took 7 of 8 postbac classes piecemeal (although I was working full-time) and presented an academic risk to ADCOMs. In addition, he did a formal postbac and did very well, proving that he could handle the material at a med school level. Also, my GPA of 2.8 includes 7 postbac classes (3.8) averaged in with my undergrad GPA of 2.45. I don't know if exmikes 3.1 is undergrad only.

MCAT: I had a slight advantage here (2 pts), but I don't think it was statistically significant.

Undergrad school: Both of us went to very good schools. I had a slight (but probably not statistically significant) advantage.

Research: I did 5 years of fulltime research after school and got onto about 6 publications (4th author or so). Exmike had 1 year of research. Advantage goes to ttac.

EC activities: I was a reserve officer in the army for 6 years, went to a bunch of army schools, did pretty well as an army officer. exmike didn't go into his EC activities too much but OTOH, he did have an MPH. From what I saw I think I might have had a slight advantage here (in terms of schools looking for diversity etc etc)

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So what is the point of this comparison? C.R, as you have already graduated from college, there is no way you can pull of the 'miraculous turnaround' that exmike did. You MUST do a postbac of some sort, preferably a formal 1 year program for example at Georgetown or Drexel.

Clearly, if we compare the applications, we can see that demographics, MCAT, and undergrad institution cancel each other out. I probably had a slight edge in research experience and unusual EC's. Exmike had a far better GPA with much more of a proven track record with academics (last 2 years were excellent, did MS and MPH with great records).

You can see how important that was in the application process. Adcoms want to know that a person has really changed, not just said they reformed. How do you prove this? You take full-time science classes for > 1 year and do GREAT. Taking one or 2 classes at a time and doing well isn't enough to prove this to adcoms. C.R: You need to find yourself a full-time postbac program where you are taking classes with the med students, and you need to do well. You probably won't be ready to jump back into that having taken 5 years off from college, so you might want to spend a year taking undergrad level prereqs informally. Do well in that. Study hard for the MCAT and shoot for >34. Apply for a formal postbac (competing with the med students) and work your butt off. If you do all of these things and have great LORs, you should be able to get in somewhere. This process will probably take 2 years of full-time commitment.

I'm obviously not speaking for Drexel's adcom, but let's just say that I have alot of insider knowledge when it comes to adcoms and leave it at that. <ahem>

ttac
p.s. exmike: Congrats on turning it around so dramatically and getting into some great schools. You deserve to get into a great school for all of your hard work.

p.p.s. To exmike (I've pm'ed you): What do you think about this comparison and the conclusions I've drawn?

 

[group_theory]

The above suggestions were all good.

May I just throw a word of caution - a GPA of 2.7 is quite low, even for DO schools. Don't just assume anyone can get into DO schools - they interview less than 20% of the applicants (numbers vary by year and school of course) and depending on the school, vary in the percentage of interviewees they accept.

Now you might hear stories of people getting in with low GPAs but remember, they are not the norm. The average GPA will reflect that.

OK - now that the disclaimer is taken care off ... a summary of what everyone has said

KICK BUTT in your post-bac and grad courses - show the schools that you can do well academically and can handle the coursework
KICK BUTT on your MCAT - show them you mastered the basics
EXPERIENCE - get some healthcare experience (whether shadowing, volunteer EMT-B, research, etc) - important so that you know what you are getting yourself into
GOOD Letter of Recommendations - a good LOR can push you over the edge, convince someone to interview and/or accept you

Despite doing the above three, it is still not a guarantee that you'll get into a US MD school. Be persistant. If after several rounds, consider DO/Foreign MD

Good luck - it's going to be a long, bumpy, and expensive road - but the journey is just as fun

 

[Adapt]

Ronaldo, don't be turned off by the DO route just because some disgruntled DO students don't like how things are going. Either way you see it, you will still be a physician making a 6 figure salary.

To maximize your chances of getting in somewhere, do well on your MCAT and then apply to MD and DO schools.

 

[Gleevec]

Move to TX... Just don't tell Roja I said that.

You make it sound so easy to completely relocate and fulfill all the state residency requirements before applying. This could easily delay your application 2 years.

Its probably better just to apply DO.

 

[whuds]

Several thoughts, first DO is a good alt to MD, theres also offshore med schools to consider. You GPA from 1999 will be seen by the ADCOM when you apply but you could explain why it was low.......due to perhaps lack of focus and goal at that time but back that up with what made you want to go to med school. Going and taking a second bachelors and Kicking a$$ is the way to go. Try your best and get a 3.4 or higher, a good mcat score (30 or higher) and you will get in.

Well just my 2cents

 

[Mr Reddly]

You make it sound so easy to completely relocate and fulfill all the state residency requirements before applying. This could easily delay your application 2 years.

Its probably better just to apply DO.

I WAS KIDDING!!!!
It was a joke at Roja's expense.

 

[jlee9531]

I WAS KIDDING!!!!
It was a joke at Roja's expense.

people tend to skip over those comments you made for some reason haha.
its prolly cause they dont see it since its further down the page...