can you have it all?

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SLP2MD

SLP2MD
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I'm 28, I've worked for the past 3+ yrs as an SLP in an amazing acute care hospital, and ive enjoyed every minute. I've just been accepted early decision to start medical school this fall after completing my post-bacc and im thrilled. problem is, im getting cold feet. im in a panic. im already in a ton of debt from undergrad/grad school/post-bacc and am terrified that im foolish to leave a job i love with a flexible schedule for a decade of a demoralizing field. I see how miserable the residents are, and I think i've seen a lot of the ugly side of medicine, but i cant quiet the desire. I'm stuck on whether or not these doubts and fears are completely normal, or whether im making a huge mistake. i dont want to get into medicine to "help people" or to "make a difference." I believe I'm already doing that as an SLP. I think its a bit more selfish for me...im fascinated by the body and its functioning and breakdowns and im dying to know more and to treat on a broader scale.

but i also know that im 28. and i want a family. and am I foolish to think I can have it all? maybe I should note that my current boyfriend is also in his residency and (i can tell) is less than thrilled with my current undertaking. hes not my husband, and i dont make decisions based on other people, im just worried im naive to think I can do it all. its been a long road so far, and im both thrilled and terrified for whats ahead. just wanted some input from people beyond the pre-med/med school years. thanks
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SLP2MD said:
I'm 28, I've worked for the past 3+ yrs as an SLP in an amazing acute care hospital, and ive enjoyed every minute. I've just been accepted early decision to start medical school this fall after completing my post-bacc and im thrilled. problem is, im getting cold feet. im in a panic. im already in a ton of debt from undergrad/grad school/post-bacc and am terrified that im foolish to leave a job i love with a flexible schedule for a decade of a demoralizing field. I see how miserable the residents are, and I think i've seen a lot of the ugly side of medicine, but i cant quiet the desire. I'm stuck on whether or not these doubts and fears are completely normal, or whether im making a huge mistake. i dont want to get into medicine to "help people" or to "make a difference." I believe I'm already doing that as an SLP. I think its a bit more selfish for me...im fascinated by the body and its functioning and breakdowns and im dying to know more and to treat on a broader scale.

but i also know that im 28. and i want a family. and am I foolish to think I can have it all? maybe I should note that my current boyfriend is also in his residency and (i can tell) is less than thrilled with my current undertaking. hes not my husband, and i dont make decisions based on other people, im just worried im naive to think I can do it all. its been a long road so far, and im both thrilled and terrified for whats ahead. just wanted some input from people beyond the pre-med/med school years. thanks
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You are getting older and you're not married. There is no guarantee that you will: ever be married, will have kids, can have kids, will have a family, or will live happily ever after. Drop the chance to go to medical school if you want but think about it carefully. If your boyfriend dumps you and the next thing you know is that you're 30, unmarried, no kids, no family, no advanced degree, and unhappy I hope you don't regret your decision.
 
SLP2MD said:
I'm 28, I've worked for the past 3+ yrs as an SLP in an amazing acute care hospital, and ive enjoyed every minute. I've just been accepted early decision to start medical school this fall after completing my post-bacc and im thrilled. problem is, im getting cold feet. im in a panic. im already in a ton of debt from undergrad/grad school/post-bacc and am terrified that im foolish to leave a job i love with a flexible schedule for a decade of a demoralizing field. I see how miserable the residents are, and I think i've seen a lot of the ugly side of medicine, but i cant quiet the desire. I'm stuck on whether or not these doubts and fears are completely normal, or whether im making a huge mistake. i dont want to get into medicine to "help people" or to "make a difference." I believe I'm already doing that as an SLP. I think its a bit more selfish for me...im fascinated by the body and its functioning and breakdowns and im dying to know more and to treat on a broader scale.

but i also know that im 28. and i want a family. and am I foolish to think I can have it all? maybe I should note that my current boyfriend is also in his residency and (i can tell) is less than thrilled with my current undertaking. hes not my husband, and i dont make decisions based on other people, im just worried im naive to think I can do it all. its been a long road so far, and im both thrilled and terrified for whats ahead. just wanted some input from people beyond the pre-med/med school years. thanks
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I don't think I would weigh your age as a factor at all.

With that said, wanting to have a family and/or raise children, that's a factor. Having a job you enjoy and lots of debt are also factors. You probably know what you're getting yourself into with a boyfriend who is a resident. I don't think anyone can tell you what to do, realize that you're going to be a medical student / resident pretty much full time and things like starting a family are going to be very difficult (yet not impossible). You will be busy every waking moment to do all that, if medicine seems worth it to you to give up your current freedoms and time with family, then go ahead. No simple answer here. I would lean towards NOT doing it unless you are really passionate about the career (which almost all pre-med believe, btw) -i.e. couldn't imagine living without doing it.
 
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What is your definition of "having it all?"

You really haven't given us a good picture of what you want your life to look like with an MD. If you want the same life you have now, but have the added responsibility of MD after your name, but still keep an 8-5 job, you would have to carefully select your field and then look for a very specific practice setup that allows that. You definitely won't have it while in residency though some are easier than others.

Will you be a world renown neurosurgeon who operates every day and has a Nobel-level lab whilst maintaining a perfectly kempt home, 3 perfect children, deliver cupcakes to school weekly, attend all school functions and field trips, be home for dinner every night at 5:30pm in time to serve the roast and fixings that you made from scratch and maintain an elite-level athlete physique and have the perfect relationship? No.

What field of medicine are you interested in? Forgetting residency (which is a finite period of time even for us surgeons), what kind of hours do you want to work once you are done with training? Do you want to have kids and be the Mom who is president of the PTA, drops her kids off and picks them up every day, never leaves them with a nanny? It would be hard to do all that and be in medicine. Can you cut some corners, still have a satisfying professional life with reasonable hours, and be there for your kids? Yes. It all depends on how you see your family life and professional life blending. There are several fields, specifically FM, EM, path, and psych, which can have more flexibility than other fields. But it is not a foregone conclusion that you would enjoy any of these fields.

I wouldn't tell you to drop the medical school dream but I'm not going to spin you pipe dreams either. You are going to have to make some sacrifices in life somewhere and very few people "have it all" in the sense that they never have to give up anything in any area of their life to make another area work well.

Tell us what you want, specifically, and we might be able to tell you if it is possible.
 
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LucidSplash said:
What is your definition of "having it all?"

You really haven't given us a good picture of what you want your life to look like with an MD. If you want the same life you have now, but have the added responsibility of MD after your name, but still keep an 8-5 job, you would have to carefully select your field and then look for a very specific practice setup that allows that. You definitely won't have it while in residency though some are easier than others.

Will you be a world renown neurosurgeon who operates every day and has a Nobel-level lab whilst maintaining a perfectly kempt home, 3 perfect children, deliver cupcakes to school weekly, attend all school functions and field trips, be home for dinner every night at 5:30pm in time to serve the roast and fixings that you made from scratch and maintain an elite-level athlete physique and have the perfect relationship? No.

What field of medicine are you interested in? Forgetting residency (which is a finite period of time even for us surgeons), what kind of hours do you want to work once you are done with training? Do you want to have kids and be the Mom who is president of the PTA, drops her kids off and picks them up every day, never leaves them with a nanny? It would be hard to do all that and be in medicine. Can you cut some corners, still have a satisfying professional life with reasonable hours, and be there for your kids? Yes. It all depends on how you see your family life and professional life blending. There are several fields, specifically FM, EM, path, and psych, which can have more flexibility than other fields. But it is not a foregone conclusion that you would enjoy any of these fields.

I wouldn't tell you to drop the medical school dream but I'm not going to spin you pipe dreams either. You are going to have to make some sacrifices in life somewhere and very few people "have it all" in the sense that they never have to give up anything in any area of their life to make another area work well.

Tell us what you want, specifically, and we might be able to tell you if it is possible.
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first off, thank you all for your responses. Insight from beyond the pre med years is invaluable.

i dont want to be the head of a world-famous medical setting with people crossing the globe for my services. i dont need to be the "neurosurgeon" you mention. i have an interest in ENT, but probably not specializing beyond that (in terms of a fellowship post-5yr residency)- I am also trying to be open minded, as i have interests in cards (non-surgical) as well as GI or anesthesia. these are obviously all broad-ranged interests, but essentially, im not trying to be the most sought-after physician in the country. I do know that ill need a decent salary to cover my debt (approx. 400K thanks to my masters degree and post-bacc schooling thus far)- so thats in my head, yes.

in terms of having a family...i want a large one. but i dont need to be the head of the PTA. i do want time to attend sporting events, etc. and time to help with homework, etc. but not on a daily basis, as i know thats unrealistic. ill hopefully be 32 by the time i finish med school, then anywhere from 35-37 by the time residency ends. im hoping my kids will be at the age of all these things by the time im past my 3rd yr of residency, where in-house call is less frequent...the details are a bit trivial, I know.

jack shephard- its hard to say i cant imagine life without doing it, as ive been living the past 3 yrs without it. i think its dangerous to look to medicine to satisfy some happiness or void you think is missing. but i understand your perspective and appreciate it. Plus, excellent George Shaw quote.

funny current- all good points. thanks a lot.

*i just never hear or see many female attendings who have families. that concerns me a bit.

thanks again, guys.
 
Etorphine said:
My PI started a family in her mid-40's, with her first set of beautiful twins. Also, my best friend's mother just had a healthy baby at 47, so there's that. Even if you went to medical school and residency, it seems like you could still give the family thing a try at ~36, which is unconventional but not unheard of.

I know there is biological reasons for not doing so, but does anyone know the exact statistics on fertility at that age?

Also:




Is that 400K before or after the estimated medical school cost? If it is before, and you take on another 220K to make ~$620K before interest, I don't even see it as feasible.
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sorry, i should have specified. its 400K total when all is said and done.
 
It will be tough to do all this as an ENT, but two of my three female attendings (one is gen surg and one is peds surg) have families and make the time. It is a constant juggling act. I think most mothers who are also in a surgical field spend a lot of time feeling guilty about BOTH ends of the spectrum... taking from career to give to family and taking from family to give to career. Neither had their children in residency.

Anesthesia is another field where there are types of practices that allow you SOME flexibility.

Really, you may want to read Michelle Au's blog... I think she has some very nice posts about the kind of internal and external gymnastics she performs trying to keep the balance. I don't think I could manage the balance as well as she does, but I don't have children at the moment so I don't have to.

As far as fertility goes, the truth is that many female physicians struggle with fertility as they put off having kids until they are done with training. Certainly, statistically, most do fine; but the lady that had twins? Probably had fertility treatments. There tends to be a perception that starting your family, especially if you want a large one, at 36-37 is no more difficult than blinking and this is just not true. Also, the early years of being an attending, establishing a practice, etc can be just as demanding as residency. Most practices would not be thrilled to hire a brand new graduate who planned to have take several episodes of maternity leave in the first 5 years... some fields more than others.

A couple of my female friends had kids in the 3rd/4th year of medical school. It is hard, but they are making it work. None of them are in surgical subspecialties. Most are in EM, radiology, or peds. Ob/Gyn as well... seems to be a bit more accepted there. FM, IM, psych also. I have one co-resident who has had BOTH of her children while in general surgery residency... but she has a stay-at-home husband. Her situation is VERY uncommon; bearing children during a surgical residency is enormously difficult, especially as our call demands and responsibilities tend not to lessen as we progress, just change and evolve.

Its not that you CAN'T do medical school or residency and have kids, its that it takes more juggling than most other fields; I think only the most disciplined women among us can do it well. The entire training process is not really designed for flexibility.

Honestly, you seem very happy with your current job, the flexibility especially. You may want to consider another allied health path (ie Physician's Assistant) if you want to get more involved in clinical patient care but maintain that flexibility. We have NPs and PAs here that work 5a-2p or 7a-4p. It may bridge the two areas of your life and you would have less debt. It may be worth looking into before you jump into the MD pathway.
 
FunnyCurrent said:
You are getting older and you're not married. There is no guarantee that you will: ever be married, will have kids, can have kids, will have a family, or will live happily ever after. Drop the chance to go to medical school if you want but think about it carefully. If your boyfriend dumps you and the next thing you know is that you're 30, unmarried, no kids, no family, no advanced degree, and unhappy I hope you don't regret your decision.
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As a 29 year old female beginning med school next month (after also getting a Masters and doing a post-bac) I agree with the above....The reality is that there is no way of knowing what the future holds or of predicting anything. Imagine the 22 year old who has been dreaming since childhood about having a large family only to realize she is infertile. **** happens.

The best you can do is focus on the present. Women have successful gone to medical and had kids long before you decided to pursue medicine and will continue to do so long after you. They have made it work, albeit with effort (everything in life takes effort). You can either give up before trying, or go ahead and work towards your goal. I will say, however, that your debt is pretty concerning, but I still think you can make it work.
 
RedSox10 said:
As a 29 year old female beginning med school next month (after also getting a Masters and doing a post-bac) I agree with the above....The reality is that there is no way of knowing what the future holds or of predicting anything. Imagine the 22 year old who has been dreaming since childhood about having a large family only to realize she is infertile. **** happens.

The best you can do is focus on the present. Women have successful gone to medical and had kids long before you decided to pursue medicine and will continue to do so long after you. They have made it work, albeit with effort (everything in life takes effort). You can either give up before trying, or go ahead and work towards your goal. I will say, however, that your debt is pretty concerning, but I still think you can make it work.
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so so great to hear your perspective. especially being in the same boat (minus the debt I assume)...i think I know all of this, I'm just scared. I'm not worried about hard-work. I'm used to that idea. I just feel terrified. focusing on the present is so much easier said than done! thanks again

can i also ask...why medicine for you? why now? im curious.
 
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yes! i love her blog. how is that woman still a normal human being. sense of humor and insane stamina still intact. here's hoping its possible for those who want it enough...thanks again
 
JackShephard MD said:
I would lean towards NOT doing it unless you are really passionate about the career (which almost all pre-med believe, btw) -i.e. couldn't imagine living without doing it.
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Agreed. So many pre-meds believe they wouldnt, couldnt be doing anything else besides going into medicine.... Personally, I think thats a horrible way of looking at it. Keep an open mind with everything. Don't go in thinking that this is the only thing I want to do, etc. Its a tough road ahead, and im only a 3rd year but I can tell its only going to get crazier.

If you are happy doing what your doing, keep doing it. Life is too short to throw it away in medical school. Thats just my 2 cents. If I felt like I had other real passion or something, maybe I wouldn't have gone into medicine.
 
Etorphine said:
I know there is biological reasons for not doing so, but does anyone know the exact statistics on fertility at that age?
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I remember reading in my Ob book when I was on that rotation only about 25-30% of people are fertile at age 40.

Lots of female attendings here have families. I know a peds surgeon fellow that has 3 kids with her ENT husband. It's all about priorities and a couple of the female residents I know with kids took a few months off so they'll graduate later than everyone else but they didn't want to risk putting off having children until they were older. One of them has a husband that stays at home but the rest work. The amount of time you have off will largely depend on your specialty and residency program as some are more condusive to families than others. I, on the other hand, put off having a dog until now (4th year).

I started to panic before I started school and I think it's pretty normal. Med school wasn't always the most fun but at least at this point I have enjoyed it for the most part and look forward to starting my career. My school hasn't been too demoralizing, in fact, quite the opposite. I can't say that it's like that for everyone but you never know until you try.
 
How attractive are you and can you get your current boyfriend to commit to marriage?

Medicine is not worth it if you have better alternatives (like above plan).

Don't get caught in the feminist myth that you need an advanced degree and profession to be happy as a woman. You don't and in fact it will likely make you more miserable.

Also was your thread title inspired by that Atlantic piece?
 
To be perfectly honest, the situations I have known have not been as positive as some other people have mentioned. Everyone's situation is different and while some people have more flexibility and resources (relying heavily on other family as babysitters), some people are barely keeping it together.
 
Asp said:
How attractive are you and can you get your current boyfriend to commit to marriage?

Medicine is not worth it if you have better alternatives (like above plan).

Don't get caught in the feminist myth that you need an advanced degree and profession to be happy as a woman. You don't and in fact it will likely make you more miserable.

Also was your thread title inspired by that Atlantic piece?
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sylvanthus said:
Go to PA school, much much shorter.
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I tend to be more optimistic but I agree with some of these comments.

The road to being a good attending physician is hard and if you don't feel like you HAVE to do it, have a good job + flexibility, and want to enjoy what life has to offer (free time + recreation + family) then I'm not sure why you would go down this path.

Just like an obsessive crush that ends with a bitter divorce, medicine looks great from the outside in but for most people it's going to be difficult. You need a strong why.
 
JackShephard MD said:
I tend to be more optimistic but I agree with some of these comments.

The road to being a good attending physician is hard and if you don't feel like you HAVE to do it, have a good job + flexibility, and want to enjoy what life has to offer (free time + recreation + family) then I'm not sure why you would go down this path.

Just like an obsessive crush that ends with a bitter divorce, medicine looks great from the outside in but for most people it's going to be difficult. You need a strong why.
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im addicted to the perspective that knowledge of the body affords you. its like a sixth sense for me. ive studied mainly laryngeal anatomy/pathology with some exploration of esophageal anomalies in my field, and i am just fascinated. i want to learn more. know more so that i can apply it in a greater way clinically. instead of the small segment i get as an SLP. im just not sure why my gut keeps telling me its a mistake. after killing myself for the past two years to succeed in pre-med/MCAT courses. i cant tell if its fear of so large a change...or if its not the right decision for me anymore. i dont know.

thanks again
 
SLP2MD said:
im addicted to the perspective that knowledge of the body affords you. its like a sixth sense for me. ive studied mainly laryngeal anatomy/pathology with some exploration of esophageal anomalies in my field, and i am just fascinated. i want to learn more. know more so that i can apply it in a greater way clinically. instead of the small segment i get as an SLP. im just not sure why my gut keeps telling me its a mistake. after killing myself for the past two years to succeed in pre-med/MCAT courses. i cant tell if its fear of so large a change...or if its not the right decision for me anymore. i dont know.

thanks again
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No problem, btw we have 6 senses (balance), so I think you mean 7th sense.
 
JackShephard MD said:
No problem, btw we have 6 senses (balance), so I think you mean 7th sense.
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cool-story-bro-obama.jpg
 
If you are able of and comfortable with convincing him to pay off your student dept past and future (med school) as an investment in your joined future, waiting till after med school ends for you to break it off with him (might help to get married/divorced would look up local laws and consider a prenup that he doesn't check over that actually very strongly favors you) to get with a younger successful spouse (to offset age/fertility especially if you wait till after residency for children, although I think most don't, but with a good luck and a good REI maybe it wouldn't matter), then you might end up better off than most.

Incidentally I'd be very surprised if the post is genuine (I assume if its going to SDN for actual input on something like this when you already have plenty of people you supposedly work around and sleep around with who are in the field already that this is more of a hypothetical)... However, if otolaryngology is your actual interest (seems oddly specific to put it in there at all if it didn't have some actual significance to you) then I'd say with 5-6yr program, lots of people get turned off adding another week let alone hour to training, but there are some 1yr fellowships that you would more than get your academic/money investment (in terms of difference between fellowship stipend and first year attending salary) back in whether you go academics/private. But, if you don't commit mentally do doing fellowship from beginning it is hard to ADD on when you haven't mentally prepared to go for the long haul. My 2 actual cents.
 
Have children during training. There is no good time to do anything anymore, and I am not sacrificing my fertility for convenience (mine or anyone else's).
 
startswithb said:
Have children during training. There is no good time to do anything anymore, and I am not sacrificing my fertility for convenience (mine or anyone else's).
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magicjewel...while I appreciate your insight and input, i cant help but to side with startswithb......there is no "good time" to make a life-altering decision. there is no "easy" timeframe to shift your world....if raising a family in medical school or residency is the hardest thing my marriage or myself will have to endure, ill consider myself extremely fortunate.

thanks for the input, guys. so much appreciated! good luck to you all xox
 
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