Can you still practice OMM if you are doing another field?

[psych72]

So I am planning on doing Psychiatry, but I was wondering if I could do OMM on the side in order to moonlight during residency or just on the weekends when I'm in practice. I love practicing on my family, so I would still keep touch with it, but I wouldnt do it on my psych patients obviously.

Can I do it without doing an NMM residency? Can I still bill for it too?

Thanks

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[PIacebo]

I am sure you could do some cranial

 

[kenjixshadow]

Or on newborns. They wouldn't know if it works or not.

 

[psych72]

I'm being serious about this. OMM is very lucrative and apparently beneficial in old retirees in the San Luis obispo area

 

[Life Eternal]

http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2013/0...o-psychiatrists-too-take-whole-body-approach/

 

[hallowmann]

You can definitely do it, and any DO can attempt to bill for it. A few things though: just because you bill for it doesn't mean you'll get paid for it, that's up to the insurance companies, also be very careful doing omt on Psych patients. You'll almost absolutely need another person present, and you'd have to be confident that the patient understands what you're doing.

Also, from the ACGME side, touching is not really promoted for Psychiatry patients for obvious reasons, so you'd have to look at the policies at your respective hospital. Personally it seems like not a great idea to me, but you could always try it out. Any DO can practice OMT, you don't need an OMM/NMM year, it just helps.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

I'm being serious about this. OMM is very lucrative and apparently beneficial in old retirees in the San Luis obispo area

...and you can bill for it right? (Said every OMM instructor about cranial). Because we know it's all about the lucrativeness and not whether it actually works. I'm all for making money for what you're good at, I wouldn't dedicate 12+ years of my life to schooling for $60K/year, but billing for cranial is just as shady as selling "essential oils" or crystals as valid and proven medical treatments. Our school even had us read the "research" on cranial for one of our tests, and all of it was an absolute joke with sample sizes no larger than 20 or so individuals. If OMM is your thing and you want to bill for the actual mechanical problems that can exist(low back pain, neck pain, etc), well I guess chiropractors can bill it so knock yourself out if it helps your patient. However you might as well atempt to bill for reiki if you think cranial is legitimate and ethical as medical treatment.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

.

 

[hallowmann]

...and you can bill for it right? (Said every OMM instructor about cranial). Because we know it's all about the lucrativeness and not whether it actually works. I'm all for making money for what you're good at, I wouldn't dedicate 12+ years of my life to schooling for $60K/year, but billing for cranial is just as shady as selling "essential oils" or crystals as valid and proven medical treatments. Our school even had us read the "research" on cranial for one of our tests, and all of it was an absolute joke with sample sizes no larger than 20 or so individuals. If OMM is your thing and you want to bill for the actual mechanical problems that can exist(low back pain, neck pain, etc), well I guess chiropractors can bill it so knock yourself out if it helps your patient. However you might as well atempt to bill for reiki if you think cranial is legitimate and ethical as medical treatment.

Why is everyone assuming OPP is only talking about doing cranial on patients? Just because it's a Psych patient doesn't mean only cranial OMT is "indicated" (in quotes for obvious reasons).

Chronic pain or muscle tension can certainly exacerbate episodes of depression or anxiety for example.

 

[YouWithTheHair]

Why is everyone assuming OPP is only talking about doing cranial on patients? Just because it's a Psych patient doesn't mean only cranial OMT is "indicated" (in quotes for obvious reasons).

Chronic pain or muscle tension can certainly exacerbate episodes of depression or anxiety for example.

I don't doubt that chronic pain or muscle tension can exacerbate a lot of things. I think a lot of us jump to cranial because it seems like something that would come up a lot in a hypothetical psych situation. Personally though I think more of my original reply is focused on your use of the word "lucrative". Just because we can bill for OMM doesn't mean that we should.

My apologies though if my comments were too presumptive of your intentions.

 

[touchpause13]

Cranial is stupid.
Idk. On one hand I feel like there are probably OMM techniques that some patients could benefit from - specifically pain from PTSD, depression, or anxiety. People tend to forget that psych patients have physical symptoms as well.
That being said I don't know if I would feel comfortable touching a patient. It's just that boundaries are such a huge issue, it's not like I don't see touch as important, I just think it's something you have to be very very cognizant about, especially if you are a man.

 

[DaddyBex28]

Sure, you can practice it...but proceed with caution about the billing of it.

I shadowed a DO who wasn't board certified in OMM but he used it sparingly in his practice. They informed me that you shouldn't bill for it unless you are actually board-certified.

 

[NurWollen]

If you read OP's question, it looks like he/she is talking about running a part-time OMM practice, separate from the psychiatry practice. Which I feel is absolutely doable.

OP, make sure you practice OMM as much as you can, hang out in the OMM lab after class. If your faculty is anything like ours they're more than happy to hang out teaching and practicing for a while after class. I haven't done it because I just don't enjoy OMM, but the students who put in the time doing things like that are worlds better at it than those who don't. There is a big difference between being good enough at OMM to pass practicals (me) and being good enough to use it regularly in practice.

 

[Dharma]

Sure, you can practice it...but proceed with caution about the billing of it.

I shadowed a DO who wasn't board certified in OMM but he used it sparingly in his practice. They informed me that you shouldn't bill for it unless you are actually board-certified.

I'm assuming you are referring to being certified in OMM/NMM... and if so, that's total b.s. You can most definitely bill for it and be reimbursed appropriately without the OMM/NMM fellowship. The point is being able to back the treatment up with proper documentation.

 

[psych72]

I guess I should be able to bill for it then. Just as an aside, I meant doing it on patietns that are not psych patients, in another city just to change things up. Also, I am definitely not doing cranial. More indirect techniques with some HVLA on ppl only when when indicated.

 

[hallowmann]

I don't doubt that chronic pain or muscle tension can exacerbate a lot of things. I think a lot of us jump to cranial because it seems like something that would come up a lot in a hypothetical psych situation. Personally though I think more of my original reply is focused on your use of the word "lucrative". Just because we can bill for OMM doesn't mean that we should.

My apologies though if my comments were too presumptive of your intentions.

Haha, no need to apologize, also, I'm not the OP. Yeah, not a huge fan of the term "lucrative", but in a couple years, who knows...

Cranial is stupid.
Idk. On one hand I feel like there are probably OMM techniques that some patients could benefit from - specifically pain from PTSD, depression, or anxiety. People tend to forget that psych patients have physical symptoms as well.
That being said I don't know if I would feel comfortable touching a patient. It's just that boundaries are such a huge issue, it's not like I don't see touch as important, I just think it's something you have to be very very cognizant about, especially if you are a man.

This is really the most difficult issue, especially with psych patients. You don't know in what way certain things will be interpreted, and that makes it even more difficult.

I guess I should be able to bill for it then. Just as an aside, I meant doing it on patietns that are not psych patients, in another city just to change things up. Also, I am definitely not doing cranial. More indirect techniques with some HVLA on ppl only when when indicated.

Wow, didn't realize that. Yeah, you should have no issue, but I would agree with NurWollen in that you better make sure you keep your OMT skills in good form. Consider taking a dedicated OMM elective or doing some OMM CME.

 

[GUH]

I spoke with some DO psych residents at an ACGME program and they do not do any OMM at all. While there isn't anything legally completely preventing you from doing OMM as a psychiatrist, you may find it difficult to keep your skills sharp during residency. Perhaps a DO psychiatrist or psych resident can comment. Remember, in a few years there will be no AOA programs.

 

[touchpause13]

My school has an OMM fellow program where you take an extra year and learn more. That might be a good option for you, because personally I don't think just going to a DO school would give you enough of a foundation to be doing OMM all the time.

 

[Dharma]

My school has an OMM fellow program where you take an extra year and learn more. That might be a good option for you, because personally I don't think just going to a DO school would give you enough of a foundation to be doing OMM all the time.

The only way to do OMM all (or most) of the time, is to use OMM all (or most) of the time. I'm not convinced one would need a fellowship to do so well. Of course, it will help but taking initiative on one's own by applying understanding of anatomy and physiology (along with continually digging deeper with study to further one's knowledge base) in the approach to addressing dysfunction and actually taking the time to use OMM should allow one to progress in terms of developing competency. One year will help, but it's nowhere near enough. The deciding factor will be how one chooses to practice once he/she is out there in the real world.

 

[Bacchus]

...and you can bill for it right? (Said every OMM instructor about cranial). Because we know it's all about the lucrativeness and not whether it actually works. I'm all for making money for what you're good at, I wouldn't dedicate 12+ years of my life to schooling for $60K/year, but billing for cranial is just as shady as selling "essential oils" or crystals as valid and proven medical treatments. Our school even had us read the "research" on cranial for one of our tests, and all of it was an absolute joke with sample sizes no larger than 20 or so individuals. If OMM is your thing and you want to bill for the actual mechanical problems that can exist(low back pain, neck pain, etc), well I guess chiropractors can bill it so knock yourself out if it helps your patient. However you might as well atempt to bill for reiki if you think cranial is legitimate and ethical as medical treatment.

I don't do cranial. However, when my patients come in for LBP I do a quick structural assessment of the lumbar spine, pelvis/sacrum and lower extremities. It doesn't take much longer and this is typically what I document and then bill for (as a resident, of course):

Patient complains of right LBP/buttock pain/sciatica

Osteopathic MSK Exam
1) Paraspinal hypertrophy L>R in the lumbar region
2) ASIS lower on right
3) Medial malleolus lower on right

I then engage the hamstrings on the right (in this case) and do ME.

That all takes less than 5 minutes, more like 2-3 to diagnose and treat, and then you bill for 1-2 regions. If you do some quick MFR to the lumbar spine you can bill 3-4 regions.

Another quick area to treat and bill for is "neck pain." Do an OA release on the skull, MFR/ME of the C-spine and release the traps and you hit 3 regions without a lot of time invested.

 

[235009]

This is a silly idea for a few reasons:
1. After 4 years of not touching a single patient in psych residency you'll no longer have any interest in pursuing this
2. After residency you'll no longer remember how to do any of this stuff
3. I can't imagine anyone anywhere looking for a moonlighter to exclusively do OMM
4. It probably won't be worth your time as you'd be able to make way more $$ per hour doing an extra shift at the psych ward or seeing a few more psych patients

 

[psych72]

This is a silly idea for a few reasons:
1. After 4 years of not touching a single patient in psych residency you'll no longer have any interest in pursuing this
2. After residency you'll no longer remember how to do any of this stuff
3. I can't imagine anyone anywhere looking for a moonlighter to exclusively do OMM
4. It probably won't be worth your time as you'd be able to make way more $$ per hour doing an extra shift at the psych ward or seeing a few more psych patients

I actualy don't mind doing OMM. I enjoyed it, though I hate studying for it hahah

I practice on my mom regularly due to her dysfunctions. But I see your point about not being worth the time. Perhaps I'll just stick to practicing on my mom.

 

[235009]

I actualy don't mind doing OMM. I enjoyed it, though I hate studying for it hahah

I practice on my mom regularly due to her dysfunctions. But I see your point about not being worth the time. Perhaps I'll just stick to practicing on my mom.

I don't doubt that you enjoy doing it.... now

 

[hallowmann]

...3. I can't imagine anyone anywhere looking for a moonlighter to exclusively do OMM...

Speaking specifically to this, I actually know of a place that was looking for a DO to do exclusively OMT 1-2 days a week. Most places that supplement with OMT may only have clinic hours 2-3 days a week, and if they don't have the manpower to run the practice and clinic they can easily find someone to cover a day.

 

[MetalloBetalactamase]

QUOTE="psych72, post: 16458159, member: 684433"]I'm being serious about this. OMM is very lucrative and apparently beneficial in old retirees in the San Luis obispo area[/QUOTE]

That!

 

[cabinbuilder]

I'm being serious about this. OMM is very lucrative and apparently beneficial in old retirees in the San Luis obispo area

As long as you are a DO you have the skills to do OMT. Yes you can bill for it, You could have a cash only practice if you wanted on the side.

 

[touchpause13]

As long as you are a DO you have the skills to do OMT. Yes you can bill for it, You could have a cash only practice if you wanted on the side.

Do you use it in practice cabinbuilder?

 

[cabinbuilder]

Do you use it in practice cabinbuilder?

every week. There is a lot of use for OMT in urgent care with back strains and headaches. Elbows are a favorite. I use it all the time.

 

[kenjixshadow]

x

 

[cabinbuilder]

Do you bill a hefty price tag for it? Surely, it must be more than what chiro charges, which is $55 an hour according to a quick google search.

I'm in a different situation since I am locums. I get paid by the hour. I don't have a private practice so I don't set the fees. I have no idea what they charge.

I don't know when I had it done as a patient my bill was $560.