Canadian Applicant Looking to Return to Rural FM in Canada... Is Australia still a gamble?

[narwhale]

I'm a non-trad applicant who would love to study abroad. I'm fairly competitive in Canada in regards to GPA (3.86/4.0) and EC's, but not my MCAT (501). I've applied to U of Calgary twice as IP (in-province) and was rejected pre-interview both times. My MCAT used to be even worse (<25). It's really the only Canadian school I'm competitive for (banking on great EC's). That being said, I'm thinking about different options and starting to explore Australian schools in case another rejection rolls in.

My dream is to be a rural family physician. I could pretty much go anywhere for residency back in Canada and I'd be happy. Do you think that the 60% still applies for rural family med matches as well? Would I still have a 40% chance of not being matched even if I broadened my horizons to the least populous/most rural places in Canada that no one wants to go?

Also, I'd be planning to come back to Canada during time off of school to do electives in a few remote communities (one being my husband's family's area). Would doing rural electives back in Canada increase my chances of matching?

One other thing, I've been really interested in the University of Wollongong for their rural focus. Is there any other schools that are really known for their aboriginal and rural focus?

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[UBC2014]

FM is very competitive as an IMG in canada, even for CMGs it is relatively competitive.

For an IMG, the rural vs non rural doesn't make a difference - people whom are applying to FM spots as IMGs are applying to all the spots and are willing to go anywhere.

Many CMGs i know are actually interested in rural-FM too, and are wanting to apply there.

SO yes, doing rural rotations will definitely help increase your odds at matching and getting face-time - however applying as an IMG is still very difficult and you should do your due diligence to have back-ups in place such applying to the US for residency in FM.

I would look into US medical schools first before going to australia, you should have a decent chance at US schools with your GPA and strong ECs.

The MCAT 501. is kind of low, but doesn't necessarily eliminate you from the running but it does make it an uphill battle. Should be still okay for USDO schools which are more forgiving on single metics - given your strong GPA and ECs.

 

[narwhale]

Thanks for your reply UBC2014. I have not really looked into USDO schools as I still don't meet the pre-requisites, same for normal US schools. I guess the allure of Australia is that I wouldn't have to do more school (pre-reqs) to have just as much uncertainty about getting in.... and I'm not re-writing the MCAT.

 

[UBC2014]

Thanks for your reply UBC2014. I have not really looked into USDO schools as I still don't meet the pre-requisites, same for normal US schools. I guess the allure of Australia is that I wouldn't have to do more school (pre-reqs) to have just as much uncertainty about getting in.... and I'm not re-writing the MCAT.

Unless you have some sort of pressing reason to immediately jump ship(Hint: You really don't), then taking it slow and steady will help in heaps. Getting some pre-reqs out of the way, isn't even a bad idea either - you'll thank yourself for having that additional exposure before getting to medical school.

You don't need to retake the MCAT, i don't think anyways, for USDO schools - your GPA more than enough should compensate for that. And if your ECs are as strong as you say, then you're even better off then.

 

[narwhale]

Thanks for your replies guys. I'm going to keep my options open by writing the MCCQE as well as the USMLE. I'd also be ok with doing a residency somewhere else in the commonwealth. For me, I think it's also about the adventure as well, and I've never taken a straight and calculated path. Potentially it's a gamble, but I think I can make it work somehow.

 

[Transition]

A $300k gamble. Hope you have deep pockets.

 

[UBC2014]

Thanks for your replies guys. I'm going to keep my options open by writing the MCCQE as well as the USMLE. I'd also be ok with doing a residency somewhere else in the commonwealth. For me, I think it's also about the adventure as well, and I've never taken a straight and calculated path. Potentially it's a gamble, but I think I can make it work somehow.

You're potentially looking at gap years post medical school to attempt to get a residency - that time frame is no different than simply taking the time now BEFORE medical school to do the pre-reqs and apply to US schools.

Good luck, as i'm sure no one who went unmatched thought they wouldn't "make it work somehow".

 

[narwhale]

Sheesh, last time I get SDN advice from doom and gloomers. I'd have to take nearly 2 years of pre-reqs in order to do them. And in order to do well in them, I'd have to quit my full-time career in healthcare to do so. PLUS I've written the MCAT 4 times, and don't have 3 academic LOR's (graduated quite a while ago), which is frowned upon in most schools from what I can tell. I'm a non-trad through and through, and it looks like US schools are pretty against non-trad paths.

 

[RahX]

Narwhale, I feel like you're the one that's closed minded here. You've asked for advice and they've given you the straight facts. It is a possibility that you will not be able to land an internship spot here once you graduate. You can keep your options open and write all the exams you want. However, it is still a big gamble. You've stated that you've had trouble with MCAT. USMLE & MCCEE is no different; they are difficult exams in which you can't write multiple times to improve your scores. Sometimes it is better to just cut your loses and just be content with what you're doing. If you want to pursue medicine, don't expect people to tell you everything will be all rainbow and kisses. The current trend right now is that unless you're a local resident, the chance of you landing a job post grad is getting slimmer by the year.

P.S. I am a non-trad applicant as well who's worked full-time career in healthcare as well. I'm currently in Australia doing my MBBS and I fully understood it is a gamble before I came. I've made the decision to come here on my own while knowing all the facts, especially that I might not have a chance to go back to Canada or US no matter how much work or effort I will put in.

 

[torontopharm]

Sheesh, last time I get SDN advice from doom and gloomers. I'd have to take nearly 2 years of pre-reqs in order to do them. And in order to do well in them, I'd have to quit my full-time career in healthcare to do so. PLUS I've written the MCAT 4 times, and don't have 3 academic LOR's (graduated quite a while ago), which is frowned upon in most schools from what I can tell. I'm a non-trad through and through, and it looks like US schools are pretty against non-trad paths.

You don't have to re-take the MCAT.
You can get LOR's from profs who taught you years ago. I did this. It's not a big deal.
You can ignore sdn if you want or you can just google "Australia internship crisis" and "Canada = closed door for IMG's" and make the decision yourself.

 

[torontopharm]

Thanks for your replies guys. I'm going to keep my options open by writing the MCCQE as well as the USMLE. I'd also be ok with doing a residency somewhere else in the commonwealth. For me, I think it's also about the adventure as well, and I've never taken a straight and calculated path. Potentially it's a gamble, but I think I can make it work somehow.

This is easier said than done. Off the top of my head, UK/Ireland is out if you're not a EU citizen and didn't study there. Singapore takes in Australian grads who don't match so i guess that could be an option. It's tough doing residency elsewhere than your country of graduation. Possible, sure, but probably not worth the debt/gamble.

 

[narwhale]

Narwhale, I feel like you're the one that's closed minded here. You've asked for advice and they've given you the straight facts. It is a possibility that you will not be able to land an internship spot here once you graduate. You can keep your options open and write all the exams you want. However, it is still a big gamble. You've stated that you've had trouble with MCAT. USMLE & MCCEE is no different; they are difficult exams in which you can't write multiple times to improve your scores. Sometimes it is better to just cut your loses and just be content with what you're doing. If you want to pursue medicine, don't expect people to tell you everything will be all rainbow and kisses. The current trend right now is that unless you're a local resident, the chance of you landing a job post grad is getting slimmer by the year.

P.S. I am a non-trad applicant as well who's worked full-time career in healthcare as well. I'm currently in Australia doing my MBBS and I fully understood it is a gamble before I came. I've made the decision to come here on my own while knowing all the facts, especially that I might not have a chance to go back to Canada or US no matter how much work or effort I will put in.

I apologize for my tone in a previous post. I'm not trying to be close minded, but no one is specifically answering the question I had, which was about rural medicine and if going to rural places for residency would affect my chances for the better. The fact that everyone just responded with DON'T GO, GO TO THE STATES without any consideration to my rural specific question. I get it, it's a gamble, just wondering if rural would be a way in, as it's actually what I want to do anyways. My husband has done electives with IMG's in his hometown (very rural undesirable part of Canada) and it was relatively easy (compared to what I've heard about others) for them because the town essentially adopted/sponsored them because they need doctors so badly. UBC2014 touched on rural very briefly by stating that they knew some people who were "interested." Helpful, but not really.

Plus, it was more of a flight of fancy question. I'm not super committed to going to Australia, seeing as I haven't even applied and might not even depending on how I do with schools back home. I was merely wanting to have a discussion and see the merits of how rural FM residency might change the chances as an IMG. If it doesn't.... cool, duly noted! I wasn't asking what people's opinions were on applying to Australia, as I could have looked at any other thread in this forum.

 

[UBC2014]

I apologize for my tone in a previous post. I'm not trying to be close minded, but no one is specifically answering the question I had, which was about rural medicine and if going to rural places for residency would affect my chances for the better. The fact that everyone just responded with DON'T GO, GO TO THE STATES without any consideration to my rural specific question. I get it, it's a gamble, just wondering if rural would be a way in, as it's actually what I want to do anyways. My husband has done electives with IMG's in his hometown (very rural undesirable part of Canada) and it was relatively easy (compared to what I've heard about others) for them because the town essentially adopted/sponsored them because they need doctors so badly. UBC2014 touched on rural very briefly by stating that they knew some people who were "interested." Helpful, but not really.

Plus, it was more of a flight of fancy question. I'm not super committed to going to Australia, seeing as I haven't even applied and might not even depending on how I do with schools back home. I was merely wanting to have a discussion and see the merits of how rural FM residency might change the chances as an IMG. If it doesn't.... cool, duly noted! I wasn't asking what people's opinions were on applying to Australia, as I could have looked at any other thread in this forum.

Rural spots fill-up. Every IMG will apply to all the spots that are open to IMGs, so weather or not you're interested as an individual is irrelevant - when there are 100's of other IMGs applying for the same spot..

CMGs also apply to rural spots, there are not suddenly just empty rural spots available to be scooped up.

 

[UBC2014]

Also doing electives has very little bearing on actual residency availability.

 

[Transition]

Dude. Read the other threads. Google the relevant items and follow people's links.

You won't work anywhere in Australia without an internship and going rural means little because, in Canada, most of the spots in the 2nd round of carms (the match and the round fmgs are eligible for) are already rural. Do some of your own research instead of asking other people to make the decision for you.

This question has been posted a bajillion times and is tiring. Do some research before blaming us for not answering your very specific question how you specifically want it answered.

 

[Medstart108]

Narwhale, going for rural FM definitely improves your chances relatively significantly. I would apply, honestly, people match, some people don't but I know someone who just graduated from the UK and matched to rural FM. Besides, you are still applying to UofC and it is still your first choice so there is no actual harm.

The reality still is that if you do go to somewhere like Australia or Ireland, you need to make sure you are ready and willing to either do your residency in the US or the place where you studied medicine.

Otherwise, if you have the money, the ambition, you will find somewhere that will take you.

 

[med_in_oz]

I agree with @Medstart108 on this one. but the key is to be ambitions and flexible. Be prepared to write all Australian, Canadian, and US exams and apply to all 3. If you're dead set on returning to Canada for your residency, personally I wouldn't wanna bet 4 years of my life and lots of money on a 60% chance.

 

[narwhale]

Narwhale, going for rural FM definitely improves your chances relatively significantly. I would apply, honestly, people match, some people don't but I know someone who just graduated from the UK and matched to rural FM. Besides, you are still applying to UofC and it is still your first choice so there is no actual harm.

The reality still is that if you do go to somewhere like Australia or Ireland, you need to make sure you are ready and willing to either do your residency in the US or the place where you studied medicine.

Otherwise, if you have the money, the ambition, you will find somewhere that will take you.

Thank you for your post. That is actually the insight in regards to rural that I was looking for. I'm well aware of the riskiness of going to OZ, but I felt that when I searched through the forum I couldn't find much about rural specific questions, which is what I was after. I'm still very competitive for U of C but I'm just trying to get other plans in action in case I decide to go somewhere else.

I'm in a lucky position to be financially able to go somewhere else. I've been working for a few years and have saved a decent amount of money. For me, I've travelled extensively and would love to live in another country. I'm also open to going to other places for residency.

I agree with @Medstart108 on this one. but the key is to be ambitions and flexible. Be prepared to write all Australian, Canadian, and US exams and apply to all 3. If you're dead set on returning to Canada for your residency, personally I wouldn't wanna bet 4 years of my life and lots of money on a 60% chance.

Thanks for your reply. I am a very flexible person with a thirst for adventure. I'd be open to wherever in order to follow my dream, which involves both medicine and travel. I know that sounds very lofty and idealistic to other posters in here, but I'd be happy doing a residency in Siberia if it meant I was still able to take exams and eventually come to Canada. I'm still figuring things out and getting my ducks in a row. Hopefully I can get in Canada before I have to even apply!

Are you in Oz right now as a med student?

 

[36MD]

Thank you for your post. That is actually the insight in regards to rural that I was looking for. I'm well aware of the riskiness of going to OZ, but I felt that when I searched through the forum I couldn't find much about rural specific questions, which is what I was after. I'm still very competitive for U of C but I'm just trying to get other plans in action in case I decide to go somewhere else.

I'm in a lucky position to be financially able to go somewhere else. I've been working for a few years and have saved a decent amount of money. For me, I've travelled extensively and would love to live in another country. I'm also open to going to other places for residency.



Thanks for your reply. I am a very flexible person with a thirst for adventure. I'd be open to wherever in order to follow my dream, which involves both medicine and travel. I know that sounds very lofty and idealistic to other posters in here, but I'd be happy doing a residency in Siberia if it meant I was still able to take exams and eventually come to Canada. I'm still figuring things out and getting my ducks in a row. Hopefully I can get in Canada before I have to even apply!

Are you in Oz right now as a med student?

I've applied to U of C twice already as well. I have an interest in Aboriginal health and am waiting to hear from USyd. I feel if you're willing to pay for such an expensive program, you should do what you love within the field of medicine (i.e. rural medicine/indigenous outreach) and hope for the best when/if you come back.

Has anyone heard back from USyd from the second round of interview dates?

 

[emerald6392]

I've applied to U of C twice already as well. I have an interest in Aboriginal health and am waiting to hear from USyd. I feel if you're willing to pay for such an expensive program, you should do what you love within the field of medicine (i.e. rural medicine/indigenous outreach) and hope for the best when/if you come back.

Has anyone heard back from USyd from the second round of interview dates?

No They said this week but if they don't send anything out by tonight it's probably next week. I'm so sick of waiting and I'm kind of getting anxious about having enough time to get the visa stuff done if I get an offer since they're so late.

 

[deleted158872]

No They said this week but if they don't send anything out by tonight it's probably next week. I'm so sick of waiting and I'm kind of getting anxious about having enough time to get the visa stuff done if I get an offer since they're so late.

don't worry - Visa takes about 3 weeks to get done what is hard is to obtain enough financial aid and find a place in Australia to live before school starts.

 

[36MD]

Thanks! This is honestly the hardest thing...